Proposed Uk Settlement Visa Changes

[ThaiVisaExpress]

You can use other income for example from property you rent out.

[sorted]

Oh really is that right i have property here in Thailand and back in Europe with a rental of 20,000 pounds a year can i use those as a income would i need to just show the rental agreements as prove.

[7by7]

From

Annex FM Section FM 1.7 Financial requirement

5.3.3 Category C: specified non-employment income

The specified non-employment income (excluding pension and allowances under Category E) the applicant’s partner and/or the applicant has received in the 12 months prior to the application can count towards the financial requirement applicable to it, provided they continue to own the relevant asset (e.g. property, shares) at the date of application.

This income can also be used in combination with other categories as described.

5.4 Further detail

5.4.3. In respect of non-employment sources of income:

This must be in the name of the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly.

Property rental income: The property, in the UK or overseas, must be owned by the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly, and must not be their main residence (and therefore income from a lodger in that residence cannot be counted). If the applicant’s partner or applicant shares ownership of the property with a third party, only income received from the applicant’s partner’s and/or applicant’s share of the property can be counted. Income from property which is rented out for only part of the year (e.g. a holiday let) can be counted. The equity in a property cannot be used to meet the financial requiremen

5.5 Specified evidence

5.5.5 In respect of non-employment income:

Property rental income:

Evidence confirming that the applicant’s partner and/or the applicant owns the property for which the rental income is received, e.g. title deeds of the property (if held), mortgage statement.

All bank statements required to show the income relied upon was paid into an account in the name of the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly in the 12-month period prior to the application.

Rental agreement, e.g. tenancy agreement, contract.

[sorted]

Thank u for useful info much obliged.

I have had a property in Europe for 2 years annual income near 1600 pounds per month gives me just the correct income but i have only moved the funds into a bank 10 times in 2 years.The money that has gone into my bank covers me for the required income needed just can not show funds put in the bank on a monthly basis is that going to be a problem.

[7by7]

I don't know if they want to see regular payments; but suspect that they do.

If you haven't been putting the money into a bank, what have you been doing with it?

[VisasPlus]

Thank u for useful info much obliged.

I have had a property in Europe for 2 years annual income near 1600 pounds per month gives me just the correct income but i have only moved the funds into a bank 10 times in 2 years.The money that has gone into my bank covers me for the required income needed just can not show funds put in the bank on a monthly basis is that going to be a problem.

Yes, it will be a problem. You re required to show 12 months bank statements showing the rental income being deposited each month.

[sorted]

Ok does that mean u are saying the visa will be rejected for sure and if it goes to an appeal that it is unlikely that i will be successful in obtaining the visa.

[VisasPlus]

Ok does that mean u are saying the visa will be rejected for sure and if it goes to an appeal that it is unlikely that i will be successful in obtaining the visa.

I can't say that it will be rejected for sure. What I am saying is that the specified evidence required to meet the financial requirements is indeed "specific". If the ECO interprets the requirements literally, then you require, amongst other things, :

Monthly personal bank statements for the 12-month period prior to the date of application showing the rental income was paid into an account in the name of the person or of the person and their partner jointly.

If your bank statements show a paper trail from rental contract to the bank account, all in your name, then you should meet the requirement. If you cannot show that the income comes from a tenant with a contract, and ends up in your bank account as obviously from rental income, then you may have a problem.

You can seek advice on the above, or you can do the application yourself. Either way, you must be sure that the paper trail is correct and easy to follow. Whatever you do, be sure that you meet the requirements .If the application is refused, and if you lose any appeal, it is an expensive exercise. The financial requirements now have this "specified evidence". It is easy for the ECO to refuse an application if you do not meet those specified requirements. At this stage, the legislation being untested, we don't know how immigration judges will view things at appeal.

Edited September 3, 2012 by VisasPlus

[sorted]

Ok if i show my Bangkok Bank statements with funds coming in from the Uk which is the same amount of money i recieve from my rental agreement then that would be enough with a copy of the agreement,making sure that the funds have been coming in over a 12 month period.

[VisasPlus]

Ok if i show my Bangkok Bank statements with funds coming in from the Uk which is the same amount of money i recieve from my rental agreement then that would be enough with a copy of the agreement,making sure that the funds have been coming in over a 12 month period.

I really don't know how I can answer you. I understand what you are saying, and, logically, it might well meet the specified evidence. However, I can't answer for how the ECO is going to assess the financial evidence you provide against the "specified evidence" in Appendix FM ( which I have detailed above). I honestly can't say if the paper trail you describe ( without seeing the actual documents) will be enough., and it would be unfair of me to say that it is. Only the ECO will be able to answer that.

If you take the specified evidence requirements literally, then the answer is no, it is not good enough, because the Bangkok Bank statements do not show the rent being paid in. The account will show money transfers from the UK. Again, if you can show the paper trail, you might be okay, but I cannot say that you will. It is a question that you can ask the UKBA at the Embassy in Bangkok by sending them an email and requesting guidance.

[sorted]

Sorry not clear on paper trail meaning please explain more i can only show a contract with my tenant 1600 pounds per month which is then forwarded here to my bank.The rent is not paid direct debit from them to my UK bank mainly paid cash to me so i then just move it from the uk to here in Thailand.

[sorted]

Sorry understand paper trail you mean showing my tenants paying rent from there account into my uk account and then from there to here,i have sent an email to ukba i shall wait for there reply.

[VisasPlus]

Sorry understand paper trail you mean showing my tenants paying rent from there account into my uk account and then from there to here,i have sent an email to ukba i shall wait for there reply.

Yes, the paper trail will show the amount of rent ( on the contract ? ), the amount paid into your UK account by the tenant., and the amount transferred to Thailand. If the money is paid by the tenant into your UK account, and that is evidenced, then the fact that you transfer it to Thailand at a later stage doesn't really matter. The specified evidence requires 12 months of monthly bank statements showing rental income paid into your account.

[sorted]

Ok fully understood but the paper trail could be the stumbling block as stated i can show funds coming from the UK to my bank in Thailand showing 12 months rental income with a rental contract.Thanks for your help on this matter i will wait to here back from UKBA.

[VisasPlus]

Ok fully understood but the paper trail could be the stumbling block as stated i can show funds coming from the UK to my bank in Thailand showing 12 months rental income with a rental contract.Thanks for your help on this matter i will wait to here back from UKBA.

Be sure to let us know what they say. We are all looking for guidance on how these new requirements will work.

[sorted]

No problem i will inform u when i have heard back from UKBA.

[sorted]

If I have a letter of a job offer with a salary that meets the requirements is this enough or do in need something else from the employer.

[VisasPlus]

If I have a letter of a job offer with a salary that meets the requirements is this enough or do in need something else from the employer.

You need:

In respect of a job offer in the UK for employment (for an applicant’s partner or parent’s partner returning to salaried employment in the UK at paragraphs E-ECP.3.2.(a) and EECC.2.2.(a) of Appendix FM) a letter from the employer must be provided:

(a) confirming the job offer, the gross annual salary and the starting date of the employment which must be within 3 months of the applicant's partner's return to the UK; or

( b ) enclosing a signed contract of employment, which must have a starting date within 3 months of the applicant's partner's return to the UK.

Edited September 7, 2012 by VisasPlus

[durhamboy]

Quick Question - when applying under the cash savings route UKBA want original copies of bank statements. My funds are in an internet account albeit with a recognised bank in the UK in sterling. They do not issue statements - one of the reasons why you get a higher interest rate. To show proof of funds I can print the whole history of my account direct from the internet showing all relevant details like bank, account number, type of account (instant access) etc. Does anyone think that would be a problem?

Thanks

[VisasPlus]

Quick Question - when applying under the cash savings route UKBA want original copies of bank statements. My funds are in an internet account albeit with a recognised bank in the UK in sterling. They do not issue statements - one of the reasons why you get a higher interest rate. To show proof of funds I can print the whole history of my account direct from the internet showing all relevant details like bank, account number, type of account (instant access) etc. Does anyone think that would be a problem?

Thanks

The specified evidence says this :

Entry clearance officer or Secretary of State should normally refuse an application which does not provide the evidence specified in this Appendix. However, where document(s) have been submitted, but not as specified, and the entry clearance officer or Secretary of State considers that, if the specified document(s) were submitted, it would result in a grant of leave, they should contact the applicant or their representative in writing or otherwise to request the document(s) be submitted within a reasonable timeframe. Examples of documents submitted not as specified include:

a) A document missing from a series, e.g. a bank statement;

b ) A document in the wrong format; or

c) A document that is a copy rather than the original.

Edited September 7, 2012 by VisasPlus

[bobrussell]

I would argue that the printed internet bank statements are not copies but actually originals! The bank does not produce actual statements that can be copied!

In the past the ECO';s have not been overly worried about statements printed from internet banks. Perhaps self-certifying may be worth doing 'I certify this is a true record of the bank account' avoiding the term copy!!

They must realise that an appeal would overturn a refusal if based on the fact that your account type does not produce paper statements. Hopefully the ECO's will continue to use a degree of commonsense!

[VisasPlus]

I would argue that the printed internet bank statements are not copies but actually originals! The bank does not produce actual statements that can be copied!

In the past the ECO';s have not been overly worried about statements printed from internet banks. Perhaps self-certifying may be worth doing 'I certify this is a true record of the bank account' avoiding the term copy!!

They must realise that an appeal would overturn a refusal if based on the fact that your account type does not produce paper statements. Hopefully the ECO's will continue to use a degree of commonsense!

You are right that, in the past, ECOs have used some common sense when considering copies of documents ( not only bank statements). However, we have seen some evidence that the new requirements are being strictly interpreted. You are also right that, having stated that the documents are copies, producing the originals at appeal would/ should reverse the decision. However, it will cost the appeal fee to do that. And, of course, the ECO can ask for an original ( as in my post above ). This is some sort of progress as, previously I think, ECOs had no such discretion written into the law.

I agree that internet printouts are "original", but I'm sure someone would argue that they can be easily falsified.

I will, however, when I have time, write to the Embassy here and ask them if the they are still accepting copy documents, including internet account printouts.

[theoldgit]

VP, I was always led to believe, not by you, that if ECO's suspect that a statement printed from the Internet has been falsified they had ways and means of testing the authenticity, is that correct? Of course if a statement was found to have been altered the applicant would be subject to a ten year ban.

I suppose if a person appealed following the refusal of a visa because a copy had been submitted, the question could be asked as to why the original wasn't submitted in the first place.

It is good to note that ECO's might call to request an original statement, but you know better than I that they have to make their decisions pretty quickly and don't have time to attempt to contact applicants.

In these days of Internet Banking, which I'm sure the ECO's use as well, it would be interesting to see what their reply would be to you, I suspect it would be a generic, non committal response.

[sorted]

Visa Plus the job offer is quite simple a letter from the employer to myself offering me a job title salary and a start date.

Just need to produce the letter of with all of the above is correct.

[VisasPlus]

Visa Plus the job offer is quite simple a letter from the employer to myself offering me a job title salary and a start date.

Just need to produce the letter of with all of the above is correct.

As above, this is what is needed. Option b includes the need for a signed contract. This then puts some obligation on the employer, of course. If it were found to be a false job offer, then I guess there might be some possible repercussions :

a letter from the employer must be provided:

(a) confirming the job offer, the gross annual salary and the starting date of the employment which must be within 3 months of the applicant's partner's return to the UK; or

( b ) enclosing a signed contract of employment, which must have a starting date within 3 months of the applicant's partner's return to the UK.

[VisasPlus]

VP, I was always led to believe, not by you, that if ECO's suspect that a statement printed from the Internet has been falsified they had ways and means of testing the authenticity, is that correct? Of course if a statement was found to have been altered the applicant would be subject to a ten year ban.

I suppose if a person appealed following the refusal of a visa because a copy had been submitted, the question could be asked as to why the original wasn't submitted in the first place.

It is good to note that ECO's might call to request an original statement, but you know better than I that they have to make their decisions pretty quickly and don't have time to attempt to contact applicants.

In these days of Internet Banking, which I'm sure the ECO's use as well, it would be interesting to see what their reply would be to you, I suspect it would be a generic, non committal response.

Most visa sections now have a dedicated verification unit. Staff will have contacts in most major banks, both in Thailand and in the UK, with whom they can verify accounts. In the event of the visa being refused a "document verification report" must be made available at appeal, giving details of the verification ( but "depersonalised" to protect named personnel). The new specified evidence gives the ECOs the opportunity to defer a decision when they can ask for original documents. I don't think this is so that they can prove the document to be false, but rather to tick the box that requires original documents. I may be wrong but that seems to be what the wording in my earlier post indicates.

[sorted]

Visa Plus thanks for all your help on here very helpful.

Your comment on false job offer i dont understand how can i have a false job offer if i have a letterof an offer from a company.

Do u mean they check with the firm to double check ?

If so if i have nothing to hide all will be ok .

[VisasPlus]

Visa Plus thanks for all your help on here very helpful.

Your comment on false job offer i dont understand how can i have a false job offer if i have a letterof an offer from a company.

Do u mean they check with the firm to double check ?

If so if i have nothing to hide all will be ok .

Sorted, I'm not accusing you of anything. It is, however, quite common for people to submit false job offers, letters of employment, etc. And, yes, they do sometimes check with firm to confirm that the letter is genuine.

[sorted]

Ok fully understood never thought for a moment u where accusing me of anything just wanted to know the facts.

U have stated possible check to the company may happen thats good enough for me.

[Gavin46]

I asked the same question about internet bank statements and got this reply;

Dear Sir / Madam

Thank you for contacting the VFS Visa Information Service.

Ad hoc bank statements printed on the bank's letterhead are admissible as evidence (this excludes mini-statements from cash points).

If you wish to submit electronic bank statements from an online account these must contain all of the details listed below. In addition, you will need to provide a supporting letter from the bank, on company headed paper, confirming the authenticity of the statements provided.

* The personal bank or building society statements much show:

* Your name; and

* The account number; and

* The date of the statement; and

* The financial institution's name and logo; and

* The amount of money available

Alternatively an electronic bank statement bearing the official stamp of the bank in question will be accepted. This stamp must appear on every page of the statement.

In respect of salaried employment, all of the following must be submitted:

* P60 (if this has been issued) and wage slips for the 6-month period prior to the application, or as appropriate, for the 12-month period prior to the application.

* Letter from the employer confirming the person's employment and annual salary, the length of their employment (and the period over which they have been or were paid the level of salary relied upon in the application), and the type of employment (permanent, fixed-term contract or agency).

* A signed contract of employment.

* Bank statements corresponding to the same period as the wage slips, showing that the salary has been paid into the person's account.

With reference to the employment, there is no requirement for employment must be in the UK. All employment and income must be lawful, and all cash savings must be lawfully derived.

Best regards,

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UK Visa Service Desk

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VFS GLOBAL

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