Proposed Uk Settlement Visa Changes

[AngryParent]

Does anyone have any information, links with regards to this B1 english test requirements? difficulty level compared to the current ESOL course, how much the B1 english will cost, is it currently available to take or do we have to wait until the list of providers are released by ukba.

Have a look at some of the sample tests here: http://www.examenglish.com/CEFR/B1.htm (they claim it is B!). They may seem simple to someone who is westerner and not a teacher, but quiz the test taker on the various meanings of each sentence/word and you will find that they are really just quessing the answers based on hearing/reading the verb and noun in the sentence. Such might have been OK for A1 - I doubt it will be OK for B1.

Also, you will probably find that many ESL textbooks for the pre-intermediate and intermediate level will be OK (I remember seeing such a comment somewhere before). Most of such are from Cambridge and Oxford publishers.

From teaching Thai students (government schools), most of them find some of the A1 tests hard - B1, maybe a university graduate from the top 4 Thai universities where a significant part was in English?

[7by7]

Kadafi, the Government say in the statement of intent that approved providers, and therefore presumably costs, will be published early next year.

As for the levels, from the Council of Europe, Language Policy Division; Levels

A1: Can understand and use familiar everyday expressions and very basic phrases aimed at the satisfaction of needs of a concrete type. Can introduce him/herself and others and can ask and answer questions about personal details such as where he/she lives, people he/she knows and things he/she has. Can interact in a simple way provided the other person talks slowly and clearly and is prepared to help.

B1: Can understand the main points of clear standard input on familiar matters regularly encountered in work, school, leisure, etc. Can deal with most situations likely to arise whilst traveling in an area where the language is spoken. Can produce simple connected text on topics which are familiar or of personal interest. Can describe experiences and events, dreams, hopes & ambitions and briefly give reasons and explanations for opinions and plans

An example of B1, given on this page of the site AP links to, is

CAN ask to open an account at a bank, provided that the procedure is straightforward.

From my own, or rather my wife's experience, her English skills were probably just above A1 when she first arrived, maybe A2. Once she had settled in and certainly after she had found work and was speaking English regulalrly she soon reached B1 and better; certainly well within the 2 years people will currently have to do this, let alone the 5 years for those applying from scratch after 9th July will have.

I hesitate to disagree with AP as he will simply say that I am picking on him again; but she did this with no tuition (formal qualifications were not required for ILR in those days) and she had left school at the age of 13. So why someone who claims to be a teacher would say

From teaching Thai students (government schools), most of them find some of the A1 tests hard - B1, maybe a university graduate from the top 4 Thai universities where a significant part was in English?

is beyond me.

I should add, though, that I am not a language teacher (though I did work for 15 years in a teaching and assessment profession until ill health forced me to cease) and am basing my assessment of my wife's abilities on my interpretation of the definitions on the official CofE website.

.

[7by7]

Having thought about it a bit, I'd like to add that the new requirement combines the old written element, the LitUK test, with a new speaking and listening element at B1 level.

The standard required to enable one to understand and pass the LitUK test has always been ESOL Entry Level 3, so logically the standard required for a B1 pass is also ESOL Entry Level 3.

Assuming that the government are logical!

Edit;

This page from Ofqual does seem to confirm that ESOL Entry Level 3 and CEF level B1 are the same standard.

Edited June 24, 2012 by 7by7

[somtampet]

Here we go again, another rabid attack on the government for addressing immigration issues that they CAN tackle.

They cannot address inter-EU migration as those treaties have been well established and welcomed!! There are millions of UK nationals living in Europe under the protection of these treaties.

So stop being hypocritical.

The government can!! Address non-EU immigration, the figure mooted is far less than the average wage in the country, to me the real issues will be the stringent language proficiency and established relationship criteria.

It's going to put a stop to feckless idiots trying to get visas for bar girls they've rattled for 3 nights.

The new probation period of 5 years is good too.

So calm down, the majority of people will not be affected by the £20k requirement, I reckon you'll see far more carnage caused by the language requirement becoming even stricter.

You make some valid points, but maybe you miss the main point. No government should be able to say who can bring a spouse/partner into the UK on the basis of how much they earn. As I said earlier, the fact that someone has an income higher than the next person does not mean that they are more able to support the spouse/partner. Setting income levels to be able to sponsor a wife or husband is wrong.

A government SHOULD be able to have control of how much a person is earning before the decision to bring in a g/f ,spouse or partner.This will mean less customers i suppose

Edited June 24, 2012 by 7by7
Insulting term removed

[transam]

So how are immigrants bringing their old folk and families into the UK ?

Edited June 24, 2012 by 7by7
Unnecessary full quote of preceding post deleted. Please do not use Quote button unless you actually need to quote the post.

[somtampet]

the rule hasnt started yet

Edited June 24, 2012 by 7by7
Unnecessary full quote of preceding post deleted. Please do not use Quote button unless you actually need to quote the post.

[7by7]

Even under the old/current rules, bringing a family member (except your spouse/partner and their children under 18) into the UK is extremely difficult. For starters there is a need to show that said family member is totally and completely financially dependant upon you; unable to support themselves due to age, disability or similar (not just unemployed!) and absolutely no family in their home country to whom they can turn for support.

I do wish people wouldn't believe everything they read in the Daily Mail and actually check their facts; indeed, I wish the Daily Mail would check their facts!

[transam]

Difficult yes, BUT, but they do it, all hands on deck.eh.

Edited June 24, 2012 by 7by7
Unnecessary full quote of preceding post deleted. Please do not use Quote button unless you actually need to quote the post

[7by7]

Where is your proof of this? Do you have figures?

[VisasPlus]

Here we go again, another rabid attack on the government for addressing immigration issues that they CAN tackle.

They cannot address inter-EU migration as those treaties have been well established and welcomed!! There are millions of UK nationals living in Europe under the protection of these treaties.

So stop being hypocritical.

The government can!! Address non-EU immigration, the figure mooted is far less than the average wage in the country, to me the real issues will be the stringent language proficiency and established relationship criteria.

It's going to put a stop to feckless idiots trying to get visas for bar girls they've rattled for 3 nights.

The new probation period of 5 years is good too.

So calm down, the majority of people will not be affected by the £20k requirement, I reckon you'll see far more carnage caused by the language requirement becoming even stricter.

You make some valid points, but maybe you miss the main point. No government should be able to say who can bring a spouse/partner into the UK on the basis of how much they earn. As I said earlier, the fact that someone has an income higher than the next person does not mean that they are more able to support the spouse/partner. Setting income levels to be able to sponsor a wife or husband is wrong.

A government SHOULD be able to have control of how much a person is earning before the decision to bring in a g/f ,spouse or partner.This will mean less customers i suppose

you miss the point. The right to bring a partner, or any other relative, should not depend on income or salary. It should depend on whether the sponsor can support the relative on that income or salary.

Edited June 24, 2012 by 7by7
Flame removed

[transam]

Where is your proof of this? Do you have figures?

No l do not BUT when l was in business l had immigrant friends with a business that smiled at what they can do. They stick together with THEIR finances to work the system. Easy stuff when the loop holes are found, and they have been found.

[7by7]

Ah, I see. You areaking assumptions on what you may have seen several years ago; i.e. immigrants with other immigrants. They are immigrants, so they must have abused the system to get in!

As you are an immigrant living in Thailand, do you count yourself in that group?

[transam]

That is a daft statement. I am not an immigrant in Thailand, there are no UK immigrants in Thailand, only visitors. My posts are from my experiences with fellow immigrant business folk and how they get around stuff, work the system. Plain and simple.

UK Government have admitted they don't know who is in the country.

Edited June 24, 2012 by 7by7
Unnecessary full quote of preceding post deleted. Please do not use Quote button unless you actually need to quote the post

[hotwinter]

so the new english standard for a settlement is b1? or is that for FLR?

[7by7]

Ah, I see. You areaking assumptions on what you may have seen several years ago; i.e. immigrants with other immigrants. They are immigrants, so they must have abused the system to get in!

As you are an immigrant living in Thailand, do you count yourself in that group?

That is a daft statement. I am not an immigrant in Thailand, there are no UK immigrants in Thailand, only visitors. My posts are from my experiences with fellow immigrant business folk and how they get around stuff, work the system. Plain and simple.

UK Government have admitted they don't know who is in the country.

No more daft than your assumption that immigrants in the UK must have somehow got round the rules.

Yes, most UK citizens living in Thailand are there on non immigrant visas, but they are effectively immigrants; even those who bend the rules by being visa runners. There are some, though, with permanent residence.

It is also true that ever since passport controls on exiting the UK were abolished by Major's government that many visitors have overstayed and, of course, others have entered illegally. It is also true that successive governments have no idea exactly how many illegals there are in the UK.

However, most immigrants living in the UK are there entirely legally having gone through the same process as members here have done for their spouses and partners.

Your initial assumption that once an immigrant has arrived in the UK they can easily bring their entire family over is completely false. Plus, of course, illegals cannot bring any family member in as doing so would bring them to the attention of the authorities and so cause their removal.

[7by7]

so the new english standard for a settlement is b1? or is that for FLR?

The requirement for the initial visa will remain at A1 in speaking and listening; ditto for FLR. The certificate obtained for the initial visa will suffice for an FLR application..

The requirement for ILR applications made from October 2013 will be a LitUK test pass and a B1 pass in speaking and listening..

[transam]

Ah, I see. You areaking assumptions on what you may have seen several years ago; i.e. immigrants with other immigrants. They are immigrants, so they must have abused the system to get in!

As you are an immigrant living in Thailand, do you count yourself in that group?

That is a daft statement. I am not an immigrant in Thailand, there are no UK immigrants in Thailand, only visitors. My posts are from my experiences with fellow immigrant business folk and how they get around stuff, work the system. Plain and simple.

UK Government have admitted they don't know who is in the country.

No more daft than your assumption that immigrants in the UK must have somehow got round the rules.

Yes, most UK citizens living in Thailand are there on non immigrant visas, but they are effectively immigrants; even those who bend the rules by being visa runners. There are some, though, with permanent residence.

It is also true that ever since passport controls on exiting the UK were abolished by Major's government that many visitors have overstayed and, of course, others have entered illegally. It is also true that successive governments have no idea exactly how many illegals there are in the UK.

However, most immigrants living in the UK are there entirely legally having gone through the same process as members here have done for their spouses and partners.

Your initial assumption that once an immigrant has arrived in the UK they can easily bring their entire family over is completely false. Plus, of course, illegals cannot bring any family member in as doing so would bring them to the attention of the authorities and so cause their removal.

I wonder how Abu Hanza got over the hurdles for his lot ? Mega dosh from the UK tax payer to keep..........................................Hmmm, forget it...

[7by7]

Abu Hanza entered the UK legally as a student, married a UK citizen and converted his student visa to settlement as a spouse. Three years after the marriage he applied for and was granted British citizenship.

All perfectly legally and his citizenship was granted in 1984, long before he had done anything illegal in the UK!

As for flogging a dead horse; you are correct. You obviously would much rather believe the right wing, anti all immigrants propaganda than the truth.

Will you still feel the same, I wonder, should you ever decide to relocate your Thai family (if you have one) to the UK? Rhetorical, don't bother answering unless you feel you must; I wont be responding further to you.

Now, back to the topic.

[transam]

Abu Hanza entered the UK legally as a student, married a UK citizen and converted his student visa to settlement as a spouse. Three years after the marriage he applied for and was granted British citizenship.

All perfectly legally and his citizenship was granted in 1984, long before he had done anything illegal in the UK!

As for flogging a dead horse; you are correct. You obviously would much rather believe the right wing, anti all immigrants propaganda than the truth.

Will you still feel the same, I wonder, should you ever decide to relocate your Thai family (if you have one) to the UK? Rhetorical, don't bother answering unless you feel you must; I wont be responding further to you.

Now, back to the topic.

[MaprangHolmes]

It seems odd that from what I understand you can work in Thailand and use that income as your source of income ) if you have been working for more then 6 months) if you want to apply for a settlement visa from also from what I understand you would need to earn the same as you would in the UK to use said income. This seems a very unfair when you consider the different levels of income in Thailand opposed to the UK. (but I do stand to be corrected this is how I have read the new rules I may have made a mistake)

say for example you earned 40,000 baht per month and say your basic outgoings are as follows:

rent 5,000

water 200

electric 1000

Food 8000

that would only amount to 14,200 or 283 pounds per month now try and live in the UK for the same amount of money! so someone say that people who earn only 40,000 would not apply for a settlement visa I fill is wrong to make that assumption when you may consider that the average for teaching now seems to be around 40,000 bath per month compared to the UK of around 24,00 pounds.

[VisasPlus]

It seems odd that from what I understand you can work in Thailand and use that income as your source of income ) if you have been working for more then 6 months) if you want to apply for a settlement visa from also from what I understand you would need to earn the same as you would in the UK to use said income. This seems a very unfair when you consider the different levels of income in Thailand opposed to the UK. (but I do stand to be corrected this is how I have read the new rules I may have made a mistake)

say for example you earned 40,000 baht per month and say your basic outgoings are as follows:

rent 5,000

water 200

electric 1000

Food 8000

that would only amount to 14,200 or 283 pounds per month now try and live in the UK for the same amount of money! so someone say that people who earn only 40,000 would not apply for a settlement visa I fill is wrong to make that assumption when you may consider that the average for teaching now seems to be around 40,000 bath per month compared to the UK of around 24,00 pounds.

I don't think you have made a mistake, and I read the changes the same way. You are also right that it is unfair. It seems to be wieghted against sponsors working in countries with low average incomes, such as the Indian subcontinent and (East) Africa. Unfortunately for us, Thailand gets caught in the same trap. It will certainly be easier for sponsors working in first world countries to take their partner and children to the UK if they have been working overseas for the required period. According to the Impact Assessment ( a separate thread is ongoing on that subject ) the changes could reduce applications by 35 - 45%. I read that to mean that the changes will exclude 35- 45% of sponsors because their income is below the new required income level. This is, of course, what the government is trying to achieve.

Edited June 25, 2012 by VisasPlus

[samsingsong]

I had a funny feeling, so checked your past posts and found this one where you say

My wife has recently been garanted a UK Settlement Visa.:

'VISA SETTLEMENT SPOUSE/CP(KOL REQ)' (Valid 27 months).

This means she has Indefinite Leave to Enter, but had not satisfied the knowledge of life and language in the UK (KOL) requirement.

Therefore she does not need to wait for 24 months before she applies for ILR but can do so immediately she has satisfied KOL; either by passing the LitUK test or if she applies before October 2013 by progressing one stage on an ESOL with citizenship course.

Hello 7by7,

Sorry to come back with more questions about this again.

I was surprised that when we got my wife's passport & documents posted back by VFS that there wasn't anything with it to explain the visa. No leaflet or covering letter. Nothing! Not everbody is computer literate and can check this out on the net! I have never seen another Uk Settlement Visa, so I don't know how they are differently worded.

Q1.) So 7by7, the entry on my wifes Settelement Visa stating, 'VISA SETTLEMENT SPOUSE/CP(KOL REQ)' (Valid 27 months)' this tells you that only KOL is is required and the the 24 months rule doesn't apply to her, so we can apply for ILR as soon as she passes KOL?

Q2.) Does this mean they are taking into account we have been together for 7 years and my wife has spent a lot of time in the UK (6x 6 month visits) already?

Q3.) We must return to Thailand before the end of November and ideally need to stay there until April, i.e. over 90 days. If we can't get the KOL and ILR before we leave the UK in November, will we have a problem next year when we apply - if we're out of the UK over 90 days? Or is that another restriction that doesn't apply to my wife?

Q4.) Even if it does apply, would UKBA be concerned we're away over 90 days as we are travelling together anyway?

Q5.) How long does the application for ILR take? If say my wife manages to pass het LitUK test by the end of July, is it feasible to get ILR by mid November?

Q6.) You'll be happy to hear there isn't a question 6....yet!

Many thanks for your help.

[jessicanguyenself]

I hope some of the members here could help me out with my situation , I was wrongly granted normal spouse visa instead of Settlement spouse KOL require but I did not have enough time to send my passport back to Bangkok and got it changed . I used that visa entered the uk and we contacted the ukba few days ago asking them to change back the right visa and their answer was :

- they will not be able to change another visa for me as I have already entered the country with that visa but I am still entitled to apply for my ILR once I have pass life in the uk test without the 24 months waiting period . The problem was the ukba officer said I might have to do it before 9th of July which is impossible for me to book for the test and study the test and gather all the paperworks with ILR application within 10 days .

So my question is : my spouse visa was wrongly granted by VFS Bangkok on may . I wonder isn't my case still apply under the old rule ? Why the ukba said I would have to do it before 9th of July before the new rule comes to affect ?

And if I don't have my life in the uk test ready by 9th of July , would I have to wait for 24 months to apply for ILR or the new 5 years rule ?

And I read on ukba website said

"abolishing immediate settlement for the migrant spouses and partner where a couple have been living together overseas for at least 4 years, and requiring them to complete a 5 year probationary period;"

I wonder if their 5 years probationary period counts from the day you got married or from the day you entered the uk ?

I am so lost and I do not know which rule apply to our case .

Edited June 26, 2012 by jessicanguyenself

[Guest jonzboy]

For Jessica, please appreciate that UKBA staff are not always correct. He is certainly wrong in saying that 9th. July has any affect on your situation. You are already in UK on a settlement visa and so you come under the current rules, not the new ones due to start on 9th July, except of course that if you do not apply for ILR before October 2013, you would have to pass an extra language test at B1 level in English.

it is interesting that you also received the wrong visa in BKK as there was another example of this recently. That applicant was able to get it corrected before leaving for UK. I would accept the advice given, get your LITUK test done as as possible and apply for ILR, an make sure there is a full explanation of your background,with supporting evidence, to again show that you were living with your partner for over four years outside of the UK at the time you first applied for your settlement visa.

[Guest jonzboy]

Samsingsong, you are right, there is no explanation given of visa type and its implications, a woefully inadequate situation. Thankfully websites like thaivisa are tremendously helpful in the regard.

Maybe I can propose a few answers ahead of 7x7

1. Yes, this is correct

2. Yes, four years or more living together outside of UK, visits to UK would not disqualify you for this unless it could be argued that you lived in UK

3. No restriction on leaving UK as far as qualifying for ILR is concerned, but this may affect eventual qualifying period for naturalisation. However, please bear in mind the time it takes to study for the LITUK test, and then to register and book a test. If you wait until 2013, you run the risk of hitting the October 2013 introduction of the B1 English test requirement. Of course, if you are away, your wife cannot apply for ILR, nor can she travel whilst it is being processed, but for a premium on the fee cost, it can be fast tracked.

4. 5. As per 3.

Edited June 27, 2012 by jonzboy

[jessicanguyenself]

Thank you jonzboy for your quick respond . Yeah even after I stated clearly the time we have lived together in my cover letter ( and with evidences of course ) they still managed to give me the wrong visa . I did bring all the evidences with me to the uk so I guess I won't have a problem with proving that .

I am thinking about doing my Lituk test next month just to get it over with . I am not sure what is B1 level but I have my IELTS test with overall band at 7.0 which qualified me to do my MBA . Speaking of UKBA officer Isn't always correct , he even told my husband that after I have my ILR sorted wait for 12 months then I can apply for citizenship . I know it's not correct but my husband was quite happy until I burst his bubble

[bobrussell]

Thank you jonzboy for your quick respond . Yeah even after I stated clearly the time we have lived together in my cover letter ( and with evidences of course ) they still managed to give me the wrong visa . I did bring all the evidences with me to the uk so I guess I won't have a problem with proving that .

I am thinking about doing my Lituk test next month just to get it over with . I am not sure what is B1 level but I have my IELTS test with overall band at 7.0 which qualified me to do my MBA . Speaking of UKBA officer Isn't always correct , he even told my husband that after I have my ILR sorted wait for 12 months then I can apply for citizenship . I know it's not correct but my husband was quite happy until I burst his bubble

He would have been right with the standard spouse visa as this would be 2+1 years!

Incorrect if you had the correct visa because for a spouse it still needs to be 3 years residence in the UK!

[Guest jonzboy]

Jessica

You'll be pleased to know that the B1 level is equivalent to about 4 in IELTS

That UKBA officer's advice may be true if you spent two years in UK on probation before applying for ILR, as most settlement visas require, then one year later you would have the three years required to apply for naturalisation? However, I was with my wife entering UK with her settlement visa, ILE as she already passed the LITUK test beforehand, and the UKBA officer told her she would qualify for naturalisation after two years.

[samsingsong]

I had a funny feeling, so checked your past posts and found this one where you say

My wife has recently been garanted a UK Settlement Visa.:

'VISA SETTLEMENT SPOUSE/CP(KOL REQ)' (Valid 27 months).

This means she has Indefinite Leave to Enter, but had not satisfied the knowledge of life and language in the UK (KOL) requirement.

Therefore she does not need to wait for 24 months before she applies for ILR but can do so immediately she has satisfied KOL; either by passing the LitUK test or if she applies before October 2013 by progressing one stage on an ESOL with citizenship course.

Hello 7by7,

Sorry to come back with more questions about this again.

I was surprised that when we got my wife's passport & documents posted back by VFS that there wasn't anything with it to explain the visa. No leaflet or covering letter. Nothing! Not everbody is computer literate and can check this out on the net! I have never seen another Uk Settlement Visa, so I don't know how they are differently worded.

Q1.) So 7by7, the entry on my wifes Settelement Visa stating, 'VISA SETTLEMENT SPOUSE/CP(KOL REQ)' (Valid 27 months)' this tells you that only KOL is is required and the the 24 months rule doesn't apply to her, so we can apply for ILR as soon as she passes KOL?

Q2.) Does this mean they are taking into account we have been together for 7 years and my wife has spent a lot of time in the UK (6x 6 month visits) already?

Q3.) We must return to Thailand before the end of November and ideally need to stay there until April, i.e. over 90 days. If we can't get the KOL and ILR before we leave the UK in November, will we have a problem next year when we apply - if we're out of the UK over 90 days? Or is that another restriction that doesn't apply to my wife?

Q4.) Even if it does apply, would UKBA be concerned we're away over 90 days as we are travelling together anyway?

Q5.) How long does the application for ILR take? If say my wife manages to pass het LitUK test by the end of July, is it feasible to get ILR by mid November?

Q6.) You'll be happy to hear there isn't a question 6....yet!

Many thanks for your help.

Samsingsong, you are right, there is no explanation given of visa type and its implications, a woefully inadequate situation. Thankfully websites like thaivisa are tremendously helpful in the regard.

Maybe I can propose a few answers ahead of 7x7

1. Yes, this is correct

2. Yes, four years or more living together outside of UK, visits to UK would not disqualify you for this unless it could be argued that you lived in UK

3. No restriction on leaving UK as far as qualifying for ILR is concerned, but this may affect eventual qualifying period for naturalisation. However, please bear in mind the time it takes to study for the LITUK test, and then to register and book a test. If you wait until 2013, you run the risk of hitting the October 2013 introduction of the B1 English test requirement. Of course, if you are away, your wife cannot apply for ILR, nor can she travel whilst it is being processed, but for a premium on the fee cost, it can be fast tracked.

4. 5. As per 3.

Thank you jonzboy for you reply.

7by7 had already answered my Q1 re applying for ILR as soon as my wife passes KOL and not having to wait for 2 years. But it's so vital I just wanted to double check how you know this. It would be an expensive mistake what with the ILR fee!

Re my Q3. If we don't need to worry about time away from the UK, then maybe she should wait and take the KOL when we return next year. But will the 2012 LitUK book she's studying be out of date by April? Has a date to change the study material and test been published?

I'd be grateful if somebody knows how long the ILR application takes to come through. I was thinking of going to a public office to get it checked & fast tracked.

I'm afraid I do now have a Question 6! That is, reading the notes about form SETM for application for ILR, it suggests that my wife would now need a 'Biometric Residence Permit' . VFS took her 'biometric' stuff when she put in her application for her Settlement Visa - Do they really need it again? Or is the BRP a requirement only for people who haven't had their biometric data taken?

Many thanks & kindest regards.

[7by7]

Apols for the delay in replying, samsingsong.

The Home Secretary is proposing major changes to the LitUK test, so her study books may very well be out of date by next April.

A postal ILR application takes 3 to 6 months to process, a personal one is usually done on the same day; but you do have to pay an extra £386!

From reading the application form it would appear that the biometrics taken when she applied for her visa will suffice..