One Of My Staff Being Chased By Debt Collectors?

[flannelmike]

they only things I send there are items that need a signature. It is easier than going back and forth with the post office if I were not at home to sign for something.

Yes, I've done the same thing, but this is a reasonable and understandable reason for using the company name and address. Can you think of one for her to give my company's name and address when taking out a loan?

[Soutpeel]

Check your copies of her work permit to see if this is the case, AEON may have required this address if its on her work permit.

The work permit is mine, the loan is hers. There is absolutely no valid reason for her to have used the company's address when taking out the loan.

On the issue of firing her, why would you do that? How would she then pay her debt?

Why is this my concern? I will talk to her to see if she has a reason for using the company address for her personal loan but for the life of me, I can't think of one. The only thing I can think of is because she didn't plan to pay it back. She doesn't send her mobile bill to the restaurant, or car registration, so why the loan?

Yes there is a reason why she put the company name down......on every application form for a loan or mortgage the world over..... 1. Where do you work, its addess and contact details 2. how much do you earn ?....this information can be used as part of the loan assessment.

[arkom]

they only things I send there are items that need a signature. It is easier than going back and forth with the post office if I were not at home to sign for something.

Yes, I've done the same thing, but this is a reasonable and understandable reason for using the company name and address. Can you think of one for her to give my company's name and address when taking out a loan?

It is most likely just to verify that she actually works there. When I applied for a home loan, the bank asked for my work address and phone number.

They actually called my office to verify that it is a valid phone number and that I work there.

If you are uncomfortable with her using your company address I would just have a discussion and tell her.

[Soutpeel]

If she hasnt taken the loan in the company name and hasn't comitted fraud other than putting the company name on something and you fire her...she could be entitled to wrongful dismissal, if you do fire here it had better be in compliance with the labour act otherwise she can take you to the labour court and most likely win her case.

This is why I need to do some investigation first, so I know exactly what's happened. In the worst case, she's taken out the loan in the company's name, or put us down as a guarantor. This is fraud and not a problem, there is clearly reasonable grounds for dismissal.

More likely, she's just used the company address when applying for the loan. This is much more grey. It may not be illegal but it is definitely problematic. What possible *valid* reason would she have for doing this, other than not wanting the lender to know where she lives, presumably because she had no plans to pay the loan back. Remember, it's already gone to the collectors, so she's already missed several payments. How do I know how many other loans she's taken out, using my company's name and address. The agency is going to come around looking for her, kicking up a fuss in the restaurant, demanding payment - what impression is that going to make on my customers.

So no, I'm not going to fire her until I know definitely what's going on, but it's surely on the cards.

Why would she get immigration around ?....

Because she's a vindictive cow who will certainly want to make trouble for me if she got dismissed, even if she was clearly in the wrong.

she cant just put the company down as a guarantor, unless there is a signature from a company officer...even a company stamp is not enough, in such a case both the company offical and party who is taking the loan sign the documents together at the loan office...

of course she has used the company name and address on the application...loan companies kinda want that sort of information...

[chuang]

Why is this my concern? I will talk to her to see if she has a reason for using the company address for her personal loan but for the life of me, I can't think of one. The only thing I can think of is because she didn't plan to pay it back. She doesn't send her mobile bill to the restaurant, or car registration, so why the loan?

I think if i am not mistaken AEON does not dispense a loan physically over the counter...it has some sort of a credit card where one can makes purchases and withdraw cash at their machine....when she applied for such card she needs to provide her employment status, salary, etc besides her home address..so don't worry, though it;s five figures sum as someone has pointed out it could be 10K or 90K since you are not going to reveal it...

She did not borrow the X amount..it's all the interest incurred....have a word with her....not everyone is a devil...

so

[flannelmike]

1. Unless you have a published company policy prohibiting employees from receiving personal mail at their work address, your employee did nothing wrong with respect to your company, even if she purposefully asked that mail be sent to her at her work address.

I don't necessaily have a problem with personal mail being sent to the company address. I have a problem with staff taking out personal loans and using my company's name and address to do so.

2. Without hearing both sides of the story, you have immediately assumed that your employee is guilty of owing somebody some money. You have then proceeded to let your imagination run wild with all sorts of utterly unsubstantiated fears about evil intent that this employee might have had against your company.

If the letter is real and not a scam, and it doesn't appear to be, I'm not assuming anything. The debt is real :-)

I will talk with her about this when she gets back but this is not a case of my imagination running wild. I have thought long and hard about this and cannot think of one single possible *valid* reason why someone would give their employment address when applying for a loan, instead of their real home address. Can you?

The collection agency's first step was probably to say: "Hey, let's send a collection letter to her at her place of employment If we are lucky, there will be some idiot at her place of employment that will do our job for us, by harassing her into paying us".

[/quote

Yes, this is certainly a possibility. This is why I'm not doing anything until she has a chance to defend herself. But it doesn't look good.

4. This letter is no threat to you

How do you know? I'm not jumping to conclusions but I have to consider all possibilities and one of them is that she's committed fraud. Asking her about it is pointless - what do you think she's going to say? I have to find out what's going on, independently, *before* talking to her about it. And she has a long history of lying her ass off to cover her mistakes.

5. "Five figures" could be 10,001 baht, or 99,999 baht. That is almost a 1,000% spread. Minimum wage in Thailand is presently 9,000 baht per month. So - she owes somewhere between one and eleven month's salary. Is that such a huge deal?

You don't think nearly one year's salary is a big deal? But it's beside the point, she deals with money in the bar and so needs to be trust-worthy.

[Soutpeel]

they only things I send there are items that need a signature. It is easier than going back and forth with the post office if I were not at home to sign for something.

Yes, I've done the same thing, but this is a reasonable and understandable reason for using the company name and address. Can you think of one for her to give my company's name and address when taking out a loan?

It is most likely just to verify that she actually works there. When I applied for a home loan, the bank asked for my work address and phone number.

They actually called my office to verify that it is a valid phone number and that I work there.

If you are uncomfortable with her using your company address I would just have a discussion and tell her.

100% correct....all I am seeing in info provided by the OP is that the person concerned has taken a personal loan, defaulted on payment and the loan company is looking for her and the logical place to start is the stated employment address on the application form....but it seems the OP wants to turn this into a fraud case, based on some of the remarks about the employee ie "vindictive cow" think there also may be a personal problem between the 2....why would the employee be deemed a vindictive cow unless something has gone on ?

[Soutpeel]

OP you are getting the answer as to why your company name appears somewhere.....but you obviously choose not to read these comments...

"valid* reason why someone would give their employment address when applying for a loan, instead of their real home address. Can you?"

Yes..its a question on the application form...

"I'm not jumping to conclusions but I have to consider all possibilities and one of them is that she's committed fraud. Asking her about it is pointless - what do you think she's going to say? I have to find out what's going on, independently, *before* talking to her about it. And she has a long history of lying her ass off to cover her mistakes"

But you are jumping to conclusion's and seem fixated on "fraud" being committed....before accusing anyone of fraud, especially in Thailand, you better have your facts correct..if you are so convinced of fraud...please go the cop shop and lay a charge then ?

[arkom]

What possible *valid* reason would she have for doing this, other than not wanting the lender to know where she lives, presumably because she had no plans to pay the loan back.

When applying for a loan you need to show your Thai ID which will have her address on it.

[dave111223]

OP you are getting the answer as to why your company name appears somewhere.....but you obviously choose not to read these comments...

"valid* reason why someone would give their employment address when applying for a loan, instead of their real home address. Can you?"

Yes..its a question on the application form...

Yeah I doubt anyone is going give you a loan without finding out where you work. Most times they also require salary slips etc... (which would also have the business address on them).

[chuang]

]

You don't think nearly one year's salary is a big deal? But it's beside the point, she deals with money in the bar and so needs to be trust-worthy.

You are on panic and phobia buttons...mentioning fraud of her part, cheating the company..and needs to be trust-worthy...she is already condemned before finding out the whole story....you refuse to accept explanations about procedures taking out a loan,,,keep harping why she use company's name and address..

i don't blame you probably you have not taken out a loan before...if this is six figure sum, it would be bad for you heart....cheer up man..

[flannelmike]

why would the employee be deemed a vindictive cow unless something has gone on ?

Yes, there has been lots going on :-) She was already close to being fired due to poor performance and dishonesty. If she was a model employee, I'd be more inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt but because of her track record, my first thought is she's done something wrong.

Again, I will talk to her first before doing anything, but I need to do some investigation into what's happened before doing so because, as she has done before many times in the past, she's going to lie her ass off. And even if she tells the truth, because she's lied so often in the past, I can't believe a word she says anyway :-(

[chuang]

why would the employee be deemed a vindictive cow unless something has gone on ?

Yes, there has been lots going on :-) She was already close to being fired due to poor performance and dishonesty. If she was a model employee, I'd be more inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt but because of her track record, my first thought is she's done something wrong.

Again, I will talk to her first before doing anything, but I need to do some investigation into what's happened before doing so because, as she has done before many times in the past, she's going to lie her ass off. And even if she tells the truth, because she's lied so often in the past, I can't believe a word she says anyway :-(

If this can make you sleep better, i suggest you bring the letter down to the AEON office and ask them what's all about...don't worry they can't ask you to clear the debt..it's just commom sense....

[flannelmike]

i suggest you bring the letter down to the AEON office and ask them what's all about...

Yes we'll be down there Monday morning :|

don't worry they can't ask you to clear the debt..

They can if she's taken it out in the company's name

[dave111223]

don't worry they can't ask you to clear the debt..

They can if she's taken it out in the company's name

How do you figure that? So you are saying I can just make up any fake company seal, wander down to AEON take out a massive loan then company XYZ has to pay it back? Get real.

[chuang]

i suggest you bring the letter down to the AEON office and ask them what's all about...

Yes we'll be down there Monday morning :|

don't worry they can't ask you to clear the debt..

They can if she's taken it out in the company's name

For Christ sake....AEON needs the company's approval and stamp and signature...have you done that...i think i am going to borrow a billion baht using Bangkok Bank name tomorrow...either you wake up or grow up....

[Soutpeel]

i suggest you bring the letter down to the AEON office and ask them what's all about...

Yes we'll be down there Monday morning :|

don't worry they can't ask you to clear the debt..

They can if she's taken it out in the company's name

And how would she achieve this...you have already stated she is not an officer of the company, and if a going the guarantor route...both parties need to sign on the loan application form, this is purposely put in place by loan companies to stop exactly what you are suggesting has been done....a forged letter or stamp is not enough...

[Soutpeel]

don't worry they can't ask you to clear the debt..

They can if she's taken it out in the company's name

How do you figure that? So you are saying I can just make up any fake company seal, wander down to AEON take out a massive loan then company XYZ has to pay it back? Get real.

You cant...the OP is grasping at straws on this one...

[flannelmike]

"valid* reason why someone would give their employment address when applying for a loan, instead of their real home address. Can you?"

Yes..its a question on the application form...

I said "employment address *instead* of home address" :-) I know you have to give your employment details when taking out a loan, God knows I've done it enough times myself :-(, and you've pointed out that the debt collectors might just be looking for her at her work address, which is true. But I know this girl and I think there's a good chance she's done something not so kosher, like putting down *only* my business address. She knows she can grab the mail before I get to the restaurant each day and I wouldn't put it past her to pull something like this.

[arkom]

don't worry they can't ask you to clear the debt..

They can if she's taken it out in the company's name

How do you figure that? So you are saying I can just make up any fake company seal, wander down to AEON take out a massive loan then company XYZ has to pay it back? Get real.

Agreed, to get a loan in company name she would need to provide a copy of the company's registration certificate from the Ministry of Commerce and you would have to sign off on it.

[simple1]

From all your negative comments about your employees, why is she still in your employ? On the address issue it could be a simple administration error in mailing to your company address.

[Soutpeel]

"valid* reason why someone would give their employment address when applying for a loan, instead of their real home address. Can you?"

Yes..its a question on the application form...

I said "employment address *instead* of home address" :-) I know you have to give your employment details when taking out a loan, God knows I've done it enough times myself :-(, and you've pointed out that the debt collectors might just be looking for her at her work address, which is true. But I know this girl and I think there's a good chance she's done something not so kosher, like putting down *only* my business address. She knows she can grab the mail before I get to the restaurant each day and I wouldn't put it past her to pull something like this.

Even if she only put down the business address on the form..so what...this doesnt infer fraud has been committed

[h90]

We tell them what they did wrong and tell them that they must resign themself.

That's a good suggestion, thanks. She's been working for less than a year so I don't think there will be any problems if we fire her but your way seems much more Thai :-)

I'm just worried that she's going to make trouble for us afterwards, she does have a vindictive personality and I'd be surprised if she didn't try something. We try to do everything by the book but if she sends Immigration or the police around, these guys can always find something if they really want to :-(

True....maybe really speak with a lawer....they are surprisingly cheap in Thailand.....

Or alternative when you kick her out when she resigns, give her 1 month pay for free and good luck wishes.....

Sounds doggy but might be cheaper at the end???

[h90]

Throw away the letter and pretend you never saw it. The dept has nothing to do with you. People worry too much nowadays.

that is also a good one!!

[brit1984]

I think it was strange of the OP to knowingly open a letter addressed to someone else, and very wrong to read it (and analyse it in such detail).

I occasionally open post addressed to my staff (at the company address) by accident. As soon as I realise my mistake I feel embarrassed and immediately pass the letter on to the intended recipient.

My suggestion to the OP would be stop worrying about an employee's private financial affairs, pass the letter onto them and apologise for opening it.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[h90]

I think it's a personal load, not a loan taken under your company's name nor is it your company being the collateral..and you are not legally bound to repaid the loan....otherwise anyone can just get a loan using some companies' name and get away with it....why not borrow millions using Thaksin's company name..

Normally the company guarantees the salary...it is common that employes write that letter themself with higher amounts than true

[h90]

I think it was strange of the OP to knowingly open a letter addressed to someone else, and very wrong to read it (and analyse it in such detail).

I occasionally open post addressed to my staff (at the company address) by accident. As soon as I realise my mistake I feel embarrassed and immediately pass the letter on to the intended recipient.

My suggestion to the OP would be stop worrying about an employee's private financial affairs, pass the letter onto them and apologise for opening it.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

What is addressed on my companies name is automatically addressed to me, no matter what name is there additionally.....

We aren't a PO box. Just I am not interested in their private post.

[Beetlejuice]

To the OP:

If you run your company strictly above board, than you have nothing to fear, if not, than you would be well advised to take the following actions:

Firstly, it appears that the finance company have already tried contacting your employee at her home address but without success, so they are trying to gain the whereabouts of this person at any other addresses listed on the loan application form. They may even check facebook, phone directories and acquaintances in a bid to find this person. Also you should expect to receive phone calls, threats and even visits from representatives of the loan company.

Your first port of call should be the loan company itself to confirm whether this is a bona fide debt chase up letter or a scam. If genuine, than inform the company that the employee has not turned up for work, you have no idea where she is and have now fired her, so please take my company address off the records? After this, than immediately sack the said employee in her absence.

If you believe that this person can cause problems for you and your company, than I would immediately bring into effect, operation cover-up and if this is not possible than it`s your fault for placing yourself in a vulnerable situation where you are at the mercy of the discretion and loyalties of others.

Of course it`s only you that has knowledge of the true facts, otherwise there is no more to this than I have mentioned above.

[giddyup]

We tell them what they did wrong and tell them that they must resign themself.

That's a good suggestion, thanks. She's been working for less than a year so I don't think there will be any problems if we fire her but your way seems much more Thai :-)

I'm just worried that she's going to make trouble for us afterwards, she does have a vindictive personality and I'd be surprised if she didn't try something. We try to do everything by the book but if she sends Immigration or the police around, these guys can always find something if they really want to :-(

True....maybe really speak with a lawer....they are surprisingly cheap in Thailand.....

Or alternative when you kick her out when she resigns, give her 1 month pay for free and good luck wishes.....

Sounds doggy but might be cheaper at the end???

Lawyers cheap in Thailand? Not in my experience. I was quoted 8000 baht to do a will, something that would cost me less in Australia. Other costs like drawing up the 30 year lease on the house weren't particularly cheap either, maybe I paid falang price, but it's certainly not cheap compared to the cost of living.

[Chonburiram]

... I have thought long and hard about this and cannot think of one single possible *valid* reason why someone would give their employment address when applying for a loan, instead of their real home address. Can you?

She had to give both; even if all the Aeon and finally debt collector letters were sent to your company/ her workplace, addressed to her, isn't sinister at all: it could be that the place where she is registered is far away from where she stays now so it would make no sense to send letters there.

Now you will say: so why didn't she gave her actual address for the correspondence? Maybe she took the loan without her boyfriends knowledge...?

Anyway, relax, throw the opened letter away ( bec that could give you a problem ! ) pretend like nothing had happened and stop opening letters not addressed to you or your company.