One Of My Staff Being Chased By Debt Collectors?

[h90]

We tell them what they did wrong and tell them that they must resign themself.

That's a good suggestion, thanks. She's been working for less than a year so I don't think there will be any problems if we fire her but your way seems much more Thai :-)

I'm just worried that she's going to make trouble for us afterwards, she does have a vindictive personality and I'd be surprised if she didn't try something. We try to do everything by the book but if she sends Immigration or the police around, these guys can always find something if they really want to :-(

True....maybe really speak with a lawer....they are surprisingly cheap in Thailand.....

Or alternative when you kick her out when she resigns, give her 1 month pay for free and good luck wishes.....

Sounds doggy but might be cheaper at the end???

Lawyers cheap in Thailand? Not in my experience. I was quoted 8000 baht to do a will, something that would cost me less in Australia. Other costs like drawing up the 30 year lease on the house weren't particularly cheap either, maybe I paid falang price, but it's certainly not cheap compared to the cost of living.

For a will, I don't know. We had a few things at court or with police and every case was less than 10.000 Baht. In Austria for 10.000 Baht you don't even get pass the secretary....

[flannelmike]

Even if she only put down the business address on the form..so what...this doesnt infer fraud has been committed

It may not be technically illegal but it's so close to the line as to not really matter, especially if the staff member is in a position that requires trust.

I don't know the exact language in the contract but it would've been something along the lines of "where do you live" or "your place of residence", and she *may* have put down only my business address (although as you said, this may just be a case of the collection agency trying to find her). She then defaults on the loan (not in dispute, assuming the letter is not a scam). This screams "dodgy" so loud and hard, she's got some serious explaining to do.

If it asked for your "mailing address", it would fly. If it said "place of residence", try explaining that one to a judge, why you put your place of employment down.

[flannelmike]

If you run your company strictly above board, than you have nothing to fear

We do everything by the book, but if immigration or the police want to come out and find something, they will find something. I've known of cases where the police have been called out to a place and found *nothing*, everything was 100% above board, so they just made up some infractions to avoid losing face and going home with nothing.

if not, than you would be well advised to take the following actions:

Thanks for the tips. Being a foreigner trying to run a business in Thailand, you're always going to be a bit more vulnerable than otherwise and while I've tried to protect myself and the business as much as possible, you can't make it 100% foolproof. If someone wants to make trouble, they can and even if it doesn't take you down, it can cause great inconvenience. That's why I'm being very cautious in how I handle this, I need to find out exactly what's happened before confronting the staff member.

[Soutpeel]

Even if she only put down the business address on the form..so what...this doesnt infer fraud has been committed

It may not be technically illegal but it's so close to the line as to not really matter, especially if the staff member is in a position that requires trust.

I don't know the exact language in the contract but it would've been something along the lines of "where do you live" or "your place of residence", and she *may* have put down only my business address (although as you said, this may just be a case of the collection agency trying to find her). She then defaults on the loan (not in dispute, assuming the letter is not a scam). This screams "dodgy" so loud and hard, she's got some serious explaining to do.

If it asked for your "mailing address", it would fly. If it said "place of residence", try explaining that one to a judge, why you put your place of employment down.

Its not even borderline....you are rationalising.....On an application form there will be a space for "Where do you live" and a space for "where do you work"...how many times does this have to be explained to you.... .......they will have a "home address" off her ID card and a work address...this is not hard to understand...

If all she has done is the work address on a form...she has commited no crime, therefore will not be explaining anything to a judge.

If she has taken out a personal loan in her own name, and defaulted on it, the company of course they will come looking at the place of work, if she has defaulted...screams nothing "dodgy" per se other than she cant or hasnt paid the loan back....and if this is a personal loan...this is between her and the loan company...it got FA to do with you...and FA to do with trust...

If you are so sure of this girls "crimes" stop bleating about it TV and go an lay some charges then with the BIB then

[CiaranO]

Even if she only put down the business address on the form..so what...this doesnt infer fraud has been committed

It may not be technically illegal but it's so close to the line as to not really matter, especially if the staff member is in a position that requires trust.

I don't know the exact language in the contract but it would've been something along the lines of "where do you live" or "your place of residence", and she *may* have put down only my business address (although as you said, this may just be a case of the collection agency trying to find her). She then defaults on the loan (not in dispute, assuming the letter is not a scam). This screams "dodgy" so loud and hard, she's got some serious explaining to do.

If it asked for your "mailing address", it would fly. If it said "place of residence", try explaining that one to a judge, why you put your place of employment down.

Its not even borderline....you are rationalising.....On an application form there will be a space for "Where do you live" and a space for "where do you work"...how many times does this have to be explained to you.... .......they will have a "home address" off her ID card and a work address...this is not hard to understand...

If all she has done is the work address on a form...she has commited no crime, therefore will not be explaining anything to a judge.

If she has taken out a personal loan in her own name, and defaulted on it, the company of course they will come looking at the place of work, if she has defaulted...screams nothing "dodgy" per se other than she cant or hasnt paid the loan back....and if this is a personal loan...this is between her and the loan company...it got FA to do with you...and FA to do with trust...

If you are so sure of this girls "crimes" stop bleating about it TV and go an lay some charges then with the BIB then

Dont be wasting your time with the OP, he has clearly made up his mind about this. My only hope is that he hasnt been bad mouthing her around his business etc.....because he could be in for a world of trouble.

[Soutpeel]

My only hope is that he hasnt been bad mouthing her around his business etc.....because he could be in for a world of trouble.

This is the bit I cant understand, why bad mouthing her so badly....also been calling his employee a vindictive cow as well, these are typically words you would not use to describe an employee however bad....

....I wonder if the OP has been playing hide the sausage with this employee and the relationship has gone sour and he is trying to find a way to give her the push, based on some of the OP's posts seems to be bit more to this story than just an Employer/employee relationship..may be wrong...

[arkom]

My only hope is that he hasnt been bad mouthing her around his business etc.....because he could be in for a world of trouble.

This is the bit I cant understand, why bad mouthing her so badly....also been calling his employee a vindictive cow as well, these are typically words you would not use to describe an employee however bad....

....I wonder if the OP has been playing hide the sausage with this employee and the relationship has gone sour and he is trying to find a way to give her the push, based on some of the OP's posts seems to be bit more to this story than just an Employer/employee relationship..may be wrong...

If there is a story behind this I could understand his reasoning. But I feel like he over reacting to something that probably isn't anything.

Getting a loan in his company name without all the proper documents would be next to impossible, considering he would have to sign off on it.

I could be wrong but I think AEON only deals with with personal loans/credit cards.

[transam]

BUT, she might have falsified stuff using the OP's business to borrow.

[soi41]

BUT, she might have falsified stuff using the OP's business to borrow.

And then it would be up to Aeon to press charges against the young lady. End off story

Nothing to do with IMO a very paranoid OP. @ transam, you don't have to post, that you don't agree with me, I know already. Pity there isn't a "dislike" button ?

[SimonD]

The OP thought he opened a letter but it may turn out to be a can of worms instead.

If reading somebody else's private correspondence, irrespective of the mailing address, is illegal in Thailand as it is in many other countries, the OP could rue the day he ever posted about this matter on here. The employee he so roundly accuses may have recourse to legal action. All it takes is one canny (and hungry) lawyer and an intrusive farang employer would be out in the cold.

With the draconian defamation laws that prevail in Thailand, the OP may be 'hoist with his own petard...'*

* Hamlet, W. Shakespear.

[JurgenG]

The collection agency's first step was probably to say: "Hey, let's send a collection letter to her at her place of employment If we are lucky, there will be some idiot at her place of employment that will do our job for us, by harassing her into paying us". Bingo! They scored a winner.

What I was thinking. It's a very common practice among debt collectors to call the parents, relatives, employer of the person who owes them money.

In a flat that I just rented, one morning I found a letter written in big red characters "PAY OR WE COME" followed by a phone number. I called the number, it was a debt collector who was chasing the maid who used to work there before. I told him that I was the new tenant and I have no idea where the previous tenant were. He said he will come to check and suggested that I could pay myself. He was very aggressive on the phone. I told him what was in my mind and I never heard about him again. I know some people more shy who would have pay ( the amount was not that big) just to get rid of the problem ...

[JurgenG]

Note for future posters in labour dispute case : Never say you're the boss, the employer. Whatever the case, you guilty because you're a very bad, evil person. No matter you pay salaries and without employers they would be no employees, no jobs, you're pure evil. Case closed !

The OP should have explained the situation like this : I applied for a credit card so I can buy stuff that I've no intention to pay and I've listed my company address as my personal address so the bank won't be able to find me when I stop paying. Until now I was able to retrieve my mail without anybody noticing but I recently took a few day off after my grand mother died for the fifth time this year and my boss found out about my little scam. How can I handle this problem so my boss look like the bad guy and pay my debts ? Also is there any other way I can extort some money from him because I've the feeling that this ungrateful evil man is going to fire me ?

[Spoonman]

If it asked for your "mailing address", it would fly. If it said "place of residence", try explaining that one to a judge, why you put your place of employment down.

I do not understand why you have such a hard on with the use of your business address.

All my mail goes to my work address.

Address in car book - Work.

Address on license - Work.

90 day reporting - Work.

All banking mail (Thai and Aus) - Work.

etc

etc

etc.

I do not see that Iam "breaking" any laws, ive applied for car finance, Work address as well.

If I were you I would shut my trap about all this fraud talk until you have concrete evidence as slander is something that is taken very seriously in this country and this employee will have no issues in front of a judge is she so chooses to extract some baht from your wallet.

Out of curiosity Flannelmike, what address do you have your personal mail sent to, Home or Work ?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I agree, always have had anything I actually want to receive from overseas sent to my work address, since I use a mailbox service that's now a bit of a trek out of the way for all my domestic stuff, only pick it up once every few months (they automatically pay my bills too).

Absolutely nothing with my name on it gets delivered to my actual residential address.

I am also amazed that you haven't let this employee go previously if you feel so negatively towards her, such feelings IMO really "poison the well" wrt to morale in a team.

Pay the proper severance + notice, no problem with wrongful dismissal anyway, don't even mention the address thing, hopefully you haven't mentioned this "fraud" suspicion anywhere IRL.

[Soutpeel]

I do not understand why you have such a hard on ?

I suspect this is root of this whole issue....

[raro]

All my staff including myself had personal mail sent to the company. Given the crappy postal service in Thailand, mail reaches you much faster using the company address than at a residential address. This is common practice in Thailand and happened at all offices I worked at.

To register a loan in the name of a company you need to bring solid paper work and criminal energy. I would rule this out.

What rather happened is, when she applied for the loan she had to name her employer and since efforts collecting money at her residential address where fruitless, they try her workplace next. Common practice. I had years ago after getting a new phone line every other day some collection agency calling in, asking for someone who apparently owned this number before.

Best action in my books would be a 1:1 sit down with the employee telling her that you accidentally opened the letter, you are very worried and ask her how you can help.

Sent from my Nexus S using Thaivisa Connect App

[CiaranO]

So basically to sum up, OP receives a letter addressed to his employee with companies address on it. He opens it bc he thins he has some right to open other people's mail. His employee has incurred credit card debt for x amount of baht, but O P has deduced from his detective skills that she somehow magically got this loan based on using his business somehow. He has no proof of any f this.

But to top it off he hasn't the intelligence to realise he may be up sh@t creek without a paddle for opening someone else mail and more than likely bad mouthing the employee around the workplace and could be done for defamation of character.

If she is lucky the money she receives from suing the OP should cover her AEon debt.....lol

[brit1984]

While it is, of course, very unlikely that the employee will take legal action with regards to having her post opened and read by someone else (although she could theoretically), the OP has probably caused (or will cause) some serious bad feelings between himself and his staff. He may have totally unrelated (and maybe even justified) reasons for not liking / respecting / trusting this employee, but this letter is not a valid reason. Having letters posted to your work address is normal, where as opening another person's post is not.

By over reacting (and making wild unjustified assumptions about his employee) the OP is likely to create bad feelings with this employee (and the other staff). Customers will soon notice if the staff are not happy, which will affect the business. Moreover, while taking out a loan in the company's name without permission from the owner is nigh on impossible (and there is no evidence of this), there are many easy and obvious ways that the staff can (and will) steal from the owner once they know he thinks of them as thieves.

[transam]

So basically to sum up, OP receives a letter addressed to his employee with companies address on it. He opens it bc he thins he has some right to open other people's mail. His employee has incurred credit card debt for x amount of baht, but O P has deduced from his detective skills that she somehow magically got this loan based on using his business somehow. He has no proof of any f this.

But to top it off he hasn't the intelligence to realise he may be up sh@t creek without a paddle for opening someone else mail and more than likely bad mouthing the employee around the workplace and could be done for defamation of character.

If she is lucky the money she receives from suing the OP should cover her AEon debt.....lol

What a load of crap. God 'elp us.