Looks Like Pork's Off The Menu

[plachon]

I just found this little snippet of information on the net. It's quite thought-provoking.

"Perhaps the most remarkable example of integrated biosystem today is practiced in Southeast Asia. In this region a type of farming has developed that relies largely or mostly on wastes to feed animals. In a typical arrangement, poultry cages are set above the pigpens so that the poultry droppings fall directly into the pens to be eaten by the pigs. The pigpens are, in turn, built above a fishpond so that the fish eat the pig dung. The bodies of dead poultry and pigs are rendered in vats. The resulting solid material is fed to the fish, while the liquid slurry is used in an anaerobic reactor that generates energy to heat the vats and light the farm buildings. The fishponds must be cleaned periodically, which allows the collection of sediments rich with fertilizer from the fish droppings. This type of farming is common in Thailand, China, Korea, and Vietnam. "

Sorry to break it to some, but this type of integrated farming has been around donkey's years. It's old hat and extremely energy efficient in terms of food chains (although in the ideal, well-managed farm, the only dead pigs, birds, fish that leave are healthy ones destined for the table, not the vats). however, rather than becoming more common in Thailand, integrated farming (incidentally promoted to by HM the King) is now on the decline as the govt. for years has been supporting "closed system" non-integrated systems for poultry, fish and swine which are extremely energy inefficient, terrible for the environment, require large amounts of technology imports and narrow gene bases of breeds ( useful to fight flu epidemics, for example), but boost share prices in a handful of giant agribusiness companies. Local breeds, small farms, a healthy environment, local markets, indigenous technology and independent workers are not valued assets in the Toxin / Newin vision of Thai agriculture. The price to be paid for this "vision" is the one being reaped now by the poultry industry and very soon, the tourism industry. The downside of globalisation / corporatisation.

[Dove]

Me think that eating of chicken may be okay but recently a scientist in Hong Kong said that the virus couls survive in frozen chicken.

It has drawn me to the conclusion that preparing chicken for dinner is dangerous. We may need gloves and a face mask.

[brianbrain]

I just found this little snippet of information on the net. It's quite thought-provoking.

"Perhaps the most remarkable example of integrated biosystem today is practiced in Southeast Asia. In this region a type of farming has developed that relies largely or mostly on wastes to feed animals. In a typical arrangement, poultry cages are set above the pigpens so that the poultry droppings fall directly into the pens to be eaten by the pigs. The pigpens are, in turn, built above a fishpond so that the fish eat the pig dung. The bodies of dead poultry and pigs are rendered in vats. The resulting solid material is fed to the fish, while the liquid slurry is used in an anaerobic reactor that generates energy to heat the vats and light the farm buildings. The fishponds must be cleaned periodically, which allows the collection of sediments rich with fertilizer from the fish droppings. This type of farming is common in Thailand, China, Korea, and Vietnam. "

By chance I happened to visit an integrated chicken & fish farm in north Thailand just two weeks ago. The chicken houses were indeed set directly above the fish ponds. I took some photos and will develop / scan them this week. I'll provide a link for anyone who is interested. The water was very green and the fish seemed to be enjoying a never-ending supply of bird poo :-o

For the chickens, the environment seemed a lot cleaner and the air fresher than any intensive chicken system I've visited in England. The cool night-time temperatures may stress the birds (the houses were open all round) but I guess they were a hardy breed.

Fish and chicken was on the menu that night. Incidentally, one dish was stuffed fish stomachs :-| Hmm... stuffed with what? I passed on that delicacy.

[george]

PM derides doctor over pig comments

BANGKOK: Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra fumed yesterday over a doctor’s warning that the birdflu virus could mutate in swine.

He derided the virus expert with a derogatory pronoun prefix – ai.

“Gone too far...it was ai mor [that doc] saying that alone,” a seething Thaksin said when asked about the warning that made yesterday’s headlines.

Ai-Mor Thaksin?

Our Ai-Mor PM is using very bad language...

[britmaveric]

You laugh, but fish flu might not be far off. I read an article on a Chicken Farmer north of Bangkok. He used the chicken poop to feed fresh water fish he was raising to sell. LOL

Me thinks Fresh water fish is off the menu!!!

[plachon]

You laugh, but fish flu might not be far off. I read an article on a Chicken Farmer north of Bangkok. He used the chicken poop to feed fresh water fish he was raising to sell. LOL

Me thinks Fresh water fish is off the menu!!!

Why? What's your problem? "I eat fish that have been swimming around in and (shock, horror!) possibly even eating chicken poo, therefore I'm at risk of getting avian flu or some other deadly disease" Sorry pal, but it don't quite work like that, even though I know it runs against your sensitive disposition and cultural conditioning since birth. Here's a few reasons why you don't need to panic and become a vegan just yet.

Firstly, for anyone that's ever eaten one of those delicious barbequed catfish (pla duk) on a stick, the chances are it came out of a pond so laden with shit of every description, that I'll spare you the details, and the catfish were quite likely fed on the offal and carcasses of dead chickens. If there was anything wrong or dangerous about this practice, there probably wouldn't be a Thai (nor millions of foreigners who've enjoyed the meal) well and alive today, as we'd all be dead or in hospital.

Secondly, animal faeces added to a pond is mostly not consumed directly by the fish, but "fertilises" the water (just like putting it on the soil in a field), as it contains macro-nutrients which encourage plant growth (phytoplankton), which makes the water green and nourishes food organisms further up the food chain. In other words, the poop is essential in making sure there are lots of wee bugs and beasties for our fish, which are later harvested for human food, to feast on (hope I'm not getting too technical here) )

Thirdly, it makes far more sense to locate chicken, duck, pig pens etc., directly above the fish ponds, negating the need to transport the crap, thus minimising handling and maximising energy efficiency, than physically carrying it from farm to pond. It also means any uneaten, spilt food falls directly into the ponds and can be eaten by fish, thereby increasing efficiency. The enriched, green water can also be used for other on-farm uses such as vegetable or fruit tree production, also increasing yields without he need for artificial fertilisers.

Fourthly, the more integration of animal and livestock components on any given farm, increases energy efficiency, minimises external inputs and decreases wastage of resources - major problems (largely externalised onto the environment) in closed, non-integrated farming systems , like that used for the poultry export-business, like the CP farms.

Fifthly, if you think using chicken shit in a pond is somehow a risk to your health, please explain to me why Chinese often site their crappers directly over fish ponds and then eat the fish and live to tell the tale? 1.2 billion Chinese can't be wrong!

And finally, don't think you're any safer by just eating sea fish or "healthy" salmon from modern fish farms in the West. A recent report widely published in newspapers round the world, recommended eating salmon no more than 3 or 4 times a year, due to the dangerously high levels of dioxins (read: nasty cancer causing chemical) found in flesh samples. The highest doses of these dioxins were found in Scottish salmon, while most wild, high value oily fish from the high seas, like tuna and swordfish have also been found recently to be carrying high levels of mercury and other heavy metals in their flesh, due to bio-accumulation up the food chain.

I'm sorry, but you're probably far safer eating a chicken shit pond fed Thai catfish, than you are that juicy tuna steak you fancy for dinner tonight.

[britmaveric]

Cheers mate I'm only winding you up-I'll eat chicken, fish or whatever dead comes across my plate. No worries about the bird flu I was being a tad sarcastic. Mind you gekko is quite tasty even might pass as a faire substitute- we had a few bags of those after a nice session.

[Marshy]

Fifthly, if you think using chicken shit in a pond is somehow a risk to your health, please explain to me why Chinese often site their crappers directly over fish ponds and then eat the fish and live to tell the tale? 1.2 billion Chinese can't be wrong

I'm sorry, but you're probably far safer eating a chicken shit pond fed Thai catfish, than you are that juicy tuna steak you fancy for dinner tonight.

I'll take my fresh snapper, grouper, or tuna every time. Sorry pal you just don't make much sense. 13 out of 17 fish processers in Thailand failed there inspections in 2002.

[Pink]

Well, what's up with tofu? Can we eat that?

[Adjan]

Me think that eating of chicken may be okay but recently a scientist in Hong Kong said that the virus couls survive in frozen chicken.

H5N1 is dying at 60° Celsius which is a quite high temperature to obtain in the meedle of many dishes.

[Kan Win]

Info for you all.

Hope it helps you.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Avian Influenza

Classification of the causative agent

Virus family: Orthomyxoviridae

Genus: Influenzavirus A, B

To date, all highly pathogenic isolates have been influenza A viruses of subtypes H5 and H7.

Avian influenza (AI) is a disease of poultry caused by a type A virus belonging to the Orthomyxovirus group. An AI virus can start out by being of low pathogenicity but can mutate without warning to become highly pathogenic.

The virus tends to lodge in and reproduce in the digestive and reproductive tracts of the birds and is shed from both these sources during the early stages when the disease is acute. When the virus is highly pathogenic, it becomes systemic and invades practically all organs. Like most disease-producing organisms, the virus survives in moist and cool conditions, but it tends to die out in dry conditions and under high temperatures.

Fresh meat of poultry, ostrich meat, farmed and wild feathered game, poultry meat products and meat preparations containing poultry meat from these species may all be infected.

In poultry farms birds pass the virus in their droppings, and it may be spread for example by contaminated feed, water, equipment and clothing.

The virus may be present in meat from affected birds and on the surface of eggs if they are contaminated with droppings.

In terms of spreading to humans medical findings have so far indicated that avian flu infection is mainly confined to people who have had close contact with diseased fowls and their droppings.

Hotels should warn their guests not to visit areas where wild or captive birds or even animals are kept. In reality this poses a much greater threat to the guest’s health than eating chicken in any of the hotel’s food outlets. This may also be an issue to properties that keep birds.

While severely affected birds will stop laying eggs, eggs laid in the early phase of the outbreak could contain the avian influenza virus in the albumen, yolk and/or on the egg surface. The virus can penetrate cracked or intact shells or, more significantly, contaminate egg containers.

Cleaning and disinfection

Influenza viruses are very sensitive to most detergents and disinfectants, and are readily deactivated by heating and drying. However, disnefection is always limited in the presence of organic material. So on the farm, flu viruses are well protected from deactivation by organic material and the infectious virus can be recovered from manure for up to 105 days.

In cleaning transport vehicles, pens, kitchen surfaces and utensils, complete removal of all organic material is required for the disinfection procedure to be effective.

Resistance to physical and chemical action

The AI virus is deactivated by heat (internal temperature of at least 64°C for 4.5 minutes, 60°C for 5 minutes or 55°C for 15 minutes), low pH (acid conditions) and dry conditions. It will, however, remain viable for long periods in animal tissue, feces and also in water.

Proper cooking effectively eliminates the risk of the virus. The procedures that you and your staff should be following for the correct cooking of poultry will ensure you are protected from the pathogens found in raw chicken, including the AI virus. If you and your staff are not consistently following these procedures you are under serious risk of causing a food borne incidence.

Correct cooking also applies to eggs, so no runny eggs served at the breakfast table. Obviously dishes using raw eggs are also a concern.

Because the virus is not resistant to low pH, foods that are acidic (such as commercial mayonnaise) are safe. Look at your recipes to see if you are lowering the pH, if so you will be safe. If you have a HACCP plan in place the pH-lowering step should already be defined as a critical control point.

There is only a small chance that the poultry meat will be contaminated with the AI virus. Though small, it can happen. In one Hong Kong study a highly pathogenic strain of avian influenza H5N1 was isolated from imported frozen duck meat. However, it is worth noting that the public health department was not overly concerned, as they felt confident that further processing would deactivate the virus.

If contaminated meat is entering your kitchen there is a risk that cross-contamination could take place from the contaminated chicken to a high-risk ready-to-eat food. Therefore, good hygiene practices during the handling of raw poultry, eggs and raw egg products are essential. This must include hand washing, and other cross-contamination prevention procedures.

Freezing and refrigeration will not substantially reduce the concentration or virulence of viruses on contaminated meat.

If all else fails - don’t panic

There has been no case where someone has eaten food infected with the avian influenza virus and then become sick. One reason is because when the avian influenza virus gets into the stomach where there is acidity, it will die – Assuming the person eating the contaminated meat is well and has a normal stomach pH (i.e. is not on anti-acid medication).

Summary

You and your staff should always practice good hygienic rules in the kitchen when dealing with chickens. There are a number of pathogens in chicken, and when dealing with chicken that is also potentially contaminated with AI, care should be taken that there is no cross-contamination between the raw chicken and other foods that will be eaten directly. You and your staff should always remember to wash hands and to heat the chicken so that the risk from pathogens is eliminated. If you use these general rules, which you and your staff should be doing at all times, then the avian influenza will be deactivated in the product and you will not have any contamination through other systems within your kitchen.

When changing the menu, also consider the product replacement. Many menus are now offering more pork. Remember that much of the pork slaughtered in Thailand is done so in slaughterhouses with very poor hygiene standards.

You may actually be introducing a greater risk by serving pork of unknown origin than you would be by serving poultry contaminated with AI. So remember, have good supplier standards in place and practice good hygiene in the kitchen.

Dr. Christopher Oates is a food safety and risk assessment specialist providing assistance to Asia's food service and retail industry. Any questions relating to this article or other food safety issues, please email Dr. Oates at [email protected].

AFR offers complete food safety services. For more information, visit www.agrofoodasia.com or contact Agro Food Resources at (66) 02-922-1866.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kan Win

Nature gives back what it gets.....................

That is my bit on this subject.......................

Sad days for poor people around Asia and in the World

[francois]

Swine flu

Chicken flu

Bird flu mad cow disease

Whats next - Lamb flu, mad lamb disease, Fish flu, mad fish disease TOT

None of these will happen in Thailand! rolleyes.gif

yop may be PM-flu ... a strain that kill all politicians

myDooM and a nasty flu .. nice beginning a year

francois

[plachon]

Cheers mate I'm only winding you up-I'll eat chicken, fish or whatever dead comes across my plate. No worries about the bird flu I was being a tad sarcastic. Mind you gekko is quite tasty even might pass as a faire substitute- we had a few bags of those after a nice session.

Gecko or ground lizard? ("yae" in Isaan speak). Geckos aren't the best of meals, but they are not bad, gutted and steeped in whisky for a few months. "Yae" are great barbequed or a la pad pet. Can't beat insects though (jing-reed and maeng-ee-chon are best) for finger food with the old suds.

[plachon]

Fifthly, if you think using chicken shit in a pond is somehow a risk to your health, please explain to me why Chinese often site their crappers directly over fish ponds and then eat the fish and live to tell the tale? 1.2 billion Chinese can't be wrong

I'm sorry, but you're probably far safer eating a chicken shit pond fed Thai catfish, than you are that juicy tuna steak you fancy for dinner tonight.

I'll take my fresh snapper, grouper, or tuna every time. Sorry pal you just don't make much sense. 13 out of 17 fish processers in Thailand failed there inspections in 2002.

Sorry if I'm not making much sense to you Marshy. Guess it's a load of <deleted> to some, eating fish from crap-enriched pond, but believe you me, nearly all our water sources, including the seas, have become big over-fished toilets in recent years. By eating as close to the source of production as possible, and avoiding too much processing (I don't dispute your assertion note, but it doesn't affect me as I don't buy processed fish, apart from the odd tin of tuna), then you are cutting down your risk of contamination considerably. This presumes you have some prior knowledge about the source of production, which applies to all food. One of ironies of this whole bird flu scare is that while Toxin (isn't he leader of the THai Rak THAI party?) happily goes into KFC to demonstrate the safety of Thai chickens, while the old European consumer has been none the wiser that he/she has been eating finger-lickin chicken shipped half way round the world, to take advantage of lax public health / environmental controls and cheap labour costs at this end, with the obvious impact on the European poultry farmers. Those labels of origin aren't stuck on KFC buckets of cack, as they ought to be.

Which coral reef did you snapper or grouper come from Marshy, or perhaps they were farmed in cages? - see comments on dioxins in salmon.

[chokrai]

I really dont know what to have for lunch now I have a nice piece of frozen chicken in the freezer but a nice fat labrador puppy in the yard,what to do?

[plachon]

I really dont know what to have for lunch now I have a nice piece of frozen chicken in the freezer but a nice fat labrador puppy in the yard,what to do?

Simple: Thaw the chicken out and feed it to the Lab. If it doesn't get sick or die within 30 days, then you know it's safe to eat.................... In my experience though, Black Labs taste better than Goldens - what's yours?

[george]

'Bird' flu found in pigs

HANOI - Traces of the deadly H5N1 strain of bird flu have been found in pigs in the Vietnamese capital and its environs, the Food and Agriculture Organisation said on Friday.

"We have seen evidence from nasal swabs taken from pigs in the Hanoi area that H5N1 is present," said Anton Rychener, head of the UN agency in Vietnam.

"We are now studying what the best course of action is," he told reporters.

The World Health Organisation has warned that the H5N1 virus could kill millions across the globe if it combined with a human influenza virus to create a new highly contagious strain transmissible among humans.

This situation could be exacerbated if pigs are found to carry H5N1 as they are an ideal "mixing vessel" for bird and human viruses, experts say.

--SA News24.com 2004-02-06

[pal78]

The World Health Organisation has warned that the H5N1 virus could kill millions across the globe if it combined with a human influenza virus to create a new highly contagious strain transmissible among humans.

"could", "if".

[george]

The World Health Organisation has warned that the H5N1 virus could kill millions across the globe if it combined with a human influenza virus to create a new highly contagious strain transmissible among humans.

"could", "if".

Pigs get all clear as bird flu toll hits 18

HANOI (Reuters) - Two more people have died in Vietnam of bird flu, taking Asia's death toll to 18, but U.N. agencies have dismissed

earlier reports that the virus had spread to pigs.

A day after China said bird flu had spread to more provinces and U.N. agencies chided Asian countries for being slow to sound the

alarm, a Food and Agriculture Organisation official in Vietnam said on Friday three or four pigs had tested positive for the virus.

That was a worrying development since the immune system of pigs is similar to that of humans but a FAO scientist in Rome said the

tests referred to were not up to standard.

"The news that he reported was based we believe on studies with an experimental test," Peter Roeder, a FAO animal health expert,

told Reuters.

Robert Webster, a World Health Organisation animal flu expert, added: "Right now there is no justification for saying there is H5N1

virus infection in pigs in Vietnam."

Scientists say pigs are ideal vessels for mixing genes from the bird flu pathogen and the human influenza virus.

The WHO has said this could result in the emergence of a new subtype of virus for which humans would have no immunity.

"If there was a very widespread infection in pigs, then that would be a great concern that a pandemic strain might develop from it,"

Jacqueline Katz, a flu expert at the U.S. Centres for Disease Control and Prevention, said last week.

The world animal health body OIE said it would not be surprised if pigs in Asia tested positive for the H5N1 bird flu virus.

"It would not be a surprise because the potential susceptibility of pigs to avian influenza virus is well known," the Paris-based OIE said.

The OIE said it recommended that countries with avian flu closely monitor pigs which were in contact with infected birds and cull those

in which the presence of the virus was confirmed.

NARROWING THE ODDS

Experts say the possibility of a new strain sweeping through a human population with no immunity to it is remote, but that each

outbreak narrows the odds a little.

That is one reason why the FAO and the World Health Organisation have been urging affected countries to act swiftly to stamp out the

H5N1 virus, preferably by slaughtering poultry within three km (two miles) of an outbreak.

Transmission to hogs is a constant worry, especially in countries like Vietnam and China where poultry, pigs and people often live in

close proximity.

South Korea said it was even considering evacuating people from bird flu zones to try to contain the virus.

China, home to the world's biggest poultry population and where the virus may have spread to 13 of 31 provinces, says it faces a tough

fight to defeat the disease.

One of those provinces is Guangdong, where the Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome, another virus that crossed the species barrier

from animals to humans, originated before spreading to 30 countries and killing nearly 800 people last year.

China, widely criticised for covering up the SARS epidemic for several months, has promised openness in its battle against the H5N1

virus, but says parts of its animal disease prevention system are "weak and vulnerable".

Local officials have been ordered to report any suspected human case immediately. None has been found so far.

Vietnam's death toll rose to 13 after a six-year-old girl and a 24-year-old man died from bird flu in Ho Chi Minh City. Five people have

also died of the disease in Thailand, taking the Asian human toll to 18.

World health bodies meeting in Rome said in a joint statement on Thursday the chance the virus could spread to other countries,

"including those in distant regions, is likely to remain high" unless the right methods were used to stamp it out.

The virus is thought to be spread by migratory birds.

Fifty million birds had been culled in Asia so far and poultry restocking alone would cost some $150 million, said Louise Fresco,

assistant director-general of the FAO.

Thailand, the world's fourth biggest chicken exporter which has slaughtered 26 million poultry, is confident it is wiping out the virus.

Deputy Prime Minister Somkid Jatusripitak said Thailand had only one "red zone" left -- the five-km (three-mile) area around a

confirmed outbreak within which the government orders the slaughter of all poultry.