How Can We Foreigners Mobilize To Help Protect Our Own?

[PaullyW]

We don't have the right to vote, our immigration statuses are most often temporary, and our Western governments often don't seem to be in a position to really help with critically important issues. It's in stark contrast to how, say, the Chinese government handles any incidents with its own citizenry.

What I'm talking about is specifically the recent deaths of the two Canadian girls. But, also just generally, all the events that effect non-Thais in Thailand.

Are there any enterprising men/women out there who have ideas for how we can mobilize our numbers to help? It's obvious that within the Kingdom most of us are probably rather powerless, and I'm not saying whether that is right or wrong, but what can we do??

My thinking is simple, but perhaps some people smarter than me can offer other ideas and perhaps we can ACTUALLY STAND UP AND DO SOMETHING!

I think that in the case of Thailand (and countries like Thailand), we have to aim to have some impact on their bottom line. I was thinking of a website (hosted OUTSIDE of Thailand) for aggregating all manner of warnings about this country for Foreigners. People (who care and who are inclined and have time) from TV (perhaps) could make sure that there was a warning in every language was posted on the site. We could use something like lonleyplanet or some other heavily frequently travel sites and even perhaps Facebook. This is the easiest way for us to communicate and get the message out. I'm not talking about just moaning about anything and everything, but really focusing in on the issues that either disproportionately affect us foreigners or issues where we feel our human rights are being improperly trampled on (whether purposefully or not).

It just seems such a waste of life to moan here on TV about our fallen countrymen and women but to never actually properly mobilize. We ARE important, but as long as we can't hurt the Thai government's pocket as it were, we will forever be insignificant.

If we look around at immigrants to our home countries, and even if we look to other Western (though I'm not talking about only Westerners in this thread) immigrants, they have generally found ways to mobilize their numbers to effect better treatment for themselves. Now, I realize we are in a completely undeveloped country (legally, safety, politically), so that's why we have to develop different tactics than those used in other countries.

WHAT CAN WE DO?

Please let's get together and stop being trampled on here in this country. Let's coerce the appropriate people by hurting their pockets.

Sorry, if things are not too clear. This is my first post, and I'm a bit emotional about how we non-Thais seem to be just completely trampled on and with no recourse at all. It should not be this way in a modern world.

[PaullyW]

Guys, please, I'm not going to play around with word games. I've been reading TV long enough to know that there are some terribly negative people here.

If I used wording too strong a slightly inappropriate, please forgive me. Please give my larger message the benefit of the doubt. I'm asking how can we help protect our interests.

I think the first two posts highlight, sadly, how we Westerners are often at a distinct disadvantage as we often have little interest in "sticking together" to solve problems.

Please, please, please, I would be very grateful if you could spare me and this particular post the negativity.

[Sharp]

We don't have the right to vote, our immigration statuses are most often temporary, and our Western governments often don't seem to be in a position to really help with critically important issues. It's in stark contrast to how, say, the Chinese government handles any incidents with its own citizenry.

What I'm talking about is specifically the recent deaths of the two Canadian girls. But, also just generally, all the events that effect non-Thais in Thailand.

Are there any enterprising men/women out there who have ideas for how we can mobilize our numbers to help? It's obvious that within the Kingdom most of us are probably rather powerless, and I'm not saying whether that is right or wrong, but what can we do??

My thinking is simple, but perhaps some people smarter than me can offer other ideas and perhaps we can ACTUALLY STAND UP AND DO SOMETHING!

I think that in the case of Thailand (and countries like Thailand), we have to aim to have some impact on their bottom line. I was thinking of a website (hosted OUTSIDE of Thailand) for aggregating all manner of warnings about this country for Foreigners. People (who care and who are inclined and have time) from TV (perhaps) could make sure that there was a warning in every language was posted on the site. We could use something like lonleyplanet or some other heavily frequently travel sites and even perhaps Facebook. This is the easiest way for us to communicate and get the message out. I'm not talking about just moaning about anything and everything, but really focusing in on the issues that either disproportionately affect us foreigners or issues where we feel our human rights are being improperly trampled on (whether purposefully or not).

It just seems such a waste of life to moan here on TV about our fallen countrymen and women but to never actually properly mobilize. We ARE important, but as long as we can't hurt the Thai government's pocket as it were, we will forever be insignificant.

If we look around at immigrants to our home countries, and even if we look to other Western (though I'm not talking about only Westerners in this thread) immigrants, they have generally found ways to mobilize their numbers to effect better treatment for themselves. Now, I realize we are in a completely undeveloped country (legally, safety, politically), so that's why we have to develop different tactics than those used in other countries.

WHAT CAN WE DO?

Please let's get together and stop being trampled on here in this country. Let's coerce the appropriate people by hurting their pockets.

Sorry, if things are not too clear. This is my first post, and I'm a bit emotional about how we non-Thais seem to be just completely trampled on and with no recourse at all. It should not be this way in a modern world.

Good idea u got my vote ..

[Soutpeel]

Problem with your plan Baldrick is that you as farang in Thailand you have no legal rights unless you have PR or citizen...in essense all of us irrepective of the visa's WP's etc we hold are "perpetual tourists"...All of us could be kicked out of Thailand on the whim of a goverment offical or a change in law..

As regards your following statment

"If we look around at immigrants to our home countries, and even if we look to other Western (though I'm not talking about only Westerners in this thread) immigrants, they have generally found ways to mobilize their numbers to effect better treatment for themselves. Now, I realize we are in a completely undeveloped country (legally, safety, politically), so that's why we have to develop different tactics than those used in other countries"

I guess what your talking about is people who have legally emigrated to a particular country.....in Thailand....people have not "legally emigrated"....I dont even believe there is provision for this under Thai law.

I personally dont feel trampled at all....I came here 10 years ago for a job and 10 years later still here and getting paid very well for being trampled on...if this is being trampled on...please give me more...

[Soutpeel]

We don't have the right to vote, our immigration statuses are most often temporary, and our Western governments often don't seem to be in a position to really help with critically important issues. It's in stark contrast to how, say, the Chinese government handles any incidents with its own citizenry.

What I'm talking about is specifically the recent deaths of the two Canadian girls. But, also just generally, all the events that effect non-Thais in Thailand.

Are there any enterprising men/women out there who have ideas for how we can mobilize our numbers to help? It's obvious that within the Kingdom most of us are probably rather powerless, and I'm not saying whether that is right or wrong, but what can we do??

My thinking is simple, but perhaps some people smarter than me can offer other ideas and perhaps we can ACTUALLY STAND UP AND DO SOMETHING!

I think that in the case of Thailand (and countries like Thailand), we have to aim to have some impact on their bottom line. I was thinking of a website (hosted OUTSIDE of Thailand) for aggregating all manner of warnings about this country for Foreigners. People (who care and who are inclined and have time) from TV (perhaps) could make sure that there was a warning in every language was posted on the site. We could use something like lonleyplanet or some other heavily frequently travel sites and even perhaps Facebook. This is the easiest way for us to communicate and get the message out. I'm not talking about just moaning about anything and everything, but really focusing in on the issues that either disproportionately affect us foreigners or issues where we feel our human rights are being improperly trampled on (whether purposefully or not).

It just seems such a waste of life to moan here on TV about our fallen countrymen and women but to never actually properly mobilize. We ARE important, but as long as we can't hurt the Thai government's pocket as it were, we will forever be insignificant.

If we look around at immigrants to our home countries, and even if we look to other Western (though I'm not talking about only Westerners in this thread) immigrants, they have generally found ways to mobilize their numbers to effect better treatment for themselves. Now, I realize we are in a completely undeveloped country (legally, safety, politically), so that's why we have to develop different tactics than those used in other countries.

WHAT CAN WE DO?

Please let's get together and stop being trampled on here in this country. Let's coerce the appropriate people by hurting their pockets.

Sorry, if things are not too clear. This is my first post, and I'm a bit emotional about how we non-Thais seem to be just completely trampled on and with no recourse at all. It should not be this way in a modern world.

Good idea u got my vote ..

If you get any novel ideas about taking over an airport in protest....sorry chaps...already been done, why dont you write to Thaksin in Dubai...

[pattayadingo]

Maybe that many like myself may no be 100% happy with the way things are here in Thailand but that we live here because we want to. There are problems here but I do not feel the need to particularly mobilise to change things.

A trouble making site about Thailand would get blocked from here so many Thailand resident TV members would not be able to access it. Add that to the fact we are a very small minority here and we do not have residence status I feel most of it would fall on deaf ears.

[Soutpeel]

Guys, please, I'm not going to play around with word games. I've been reading TV long enough to know that there are some terribly negative people here.

If I used wording too strong a slightly inappropriate, please forgive me. Please give my larger message the benefit of the doubt. I'm asking how can we help protect our interests.

I think the first two posts highlight, sadly, how we Westerners are often at a distinct disadvantage as we often have little interest in "sticking together" to solve problems.

Please, please, please, I would be very grateful if you could spare me and this particular post the negativity.

You are obviously very stressed by all this...may I humbly suggest you go an get a soapie and chill out

[h90]

That is exactly the problem we have in Europe.

Immigrants come and don't want to bend to our rules, mix together and force us to something we don't want, which on the other hand leads to racism.

In Europe the aborigines are white and long nosed and disturbed by some brown intruders.

Here the aborigines are brown and some white long noses want to mess around.

I don't want that some Turkish, Africans or Arabs become equal rights in Europe. And I don't need equal rights in Thailand.

If I don't like it here I go back. If I want to be the same I get the nationality. If I don't want both of it, I close my mouth.

[PaullyW]

Just to make a point, I too do not feel that I have been 'trampled on', but it does happen, and for people who want to do something about it (I realize not everyone will care, and I did mention that in my OP), I'm asking for ideas.

I am not saying Thailand is bad, and I actually have had a good experience here. But, what's wrong with aiming to have a central repository of sorts with warnings about Thailand -- esp those stories that might not usually make it out of Thailand? No hatred, no embellishing, but just a place where people can get information about things in Thailand and come to their own conclusions.

Right now, most of what exists are sites who benefit from tourism to Thailand so it's not in their best interests to report on any negative events that go on in Thailand.

[PaullyW]

That is exactly the problem we have in Europe.

Immigrants come and don't want to bend to our rules, mix together and force us to something we don't want, which on the other hand leads to racism.

In Europe the aborigines are white and long nosed and disturbed by some brown intruders.

Here the aborigines are brown and some white long noses want to mess around.

I don't want that some Turkish, Africans or Arabs become equal rights in Europe. And I don't need equal rights in Thailand.

If I don't like it here I go back. If I want to be the same I get the nationality. If I don't want both of it, I close my mouth.

I don't understand why everything with so many posters here is either black or white. Wow, i find it so incredible that so many Westerners (I'm guessing most of the responses are from Westerners, though I could be completely wrong, of course) don't have interest in trying to better our lives and protect ourselves and fellow countrymen and women. It's crazy. I know there are more people out there who do care; perhaps it's just a numbers game.

Completely respect your opinion, but I do not feel the same way. I can still fully respect Thai law and culture and whatever else and still find nothing wrong with warning or making other foreigners aware of what's going on here and what kinds of things they would never know by reading hotel reviews on any travel sites for instance.

[true blue]

could do with guys like you on the pension saga for expats in los,lol.

[Jingthing]

Maybe call Robert Amsterdam? He's real good at political PR. Not sure how he would get PAID though ...

Somewhat more seriously, a hard core approach would totally backfire here. They'd likely just be aggravated and want to boot us all out!

A soft PR approach using humor and fun tailored to Thai tastes could have a cumulative effect if applied consistently for about 1000 years.

I wish I wasn't so cynical about this, but I reckon most long term expats would feel similarly.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Jingthing

[Soutpeel]

Just to make a point, I too do not feel that I have been 'trampled on', but it does happen, and for people who want to do something about it (I realize not everyone will care, and I did mention that in my OP), I'm asking for ideas.

I am not saying Thailand is bad, and I actually have had a good experience here. But, what's wrong with aiming to have a central repository of sorts with warnings about Thailand -- esp those stories that might not usually make it out of Thailand? No hatred, no embellishing, but just a place where people can get information about things in Thailand and come to their own conclusions.

Right now, most of what exists are sites who benefit from tourism to Thailand so it's not in their best interests to report on any negative events that go on in Thailand.

If you take the time to look , the sort of information you are talking about is out there on the internet if one cares to even look...In fact even TV serves this purpose to a degree...

Edited June 17, 2012 by Soutpeel

[PaullyW]

Just to make a point, I too do not feel that I have been 'trampled on', but it does happen, and for people who want to do something about it (I realize not everyone will care, and I did mention that in my OP), I'm asking for ideas.

I am not saying Thailand is bad, and I actually have had a good experience here. But, what's wrong with aiming to have a central repository of sorts with warnings about Thailand -- esp those stories that might not usually make it out of Thailand? No hatred, no embellishing, but just a place where people can get information about things in Thailand and come to their own conclusions.

Right now, most of what exists are sites who benefit from tourism to Thailand so it's not in their best interests to report on any negative events that go on in Thailand.

If you take the time, the sort of information you are talking about is out there on the internet if one cares to even look...In fact even TV serves this purpose to a degree...

Surely, but TV is massive, and, in fact, I NEVER got a hit on ThaiVisa from outside of Thailand all the many times I've researched topics related to Thailand. When you are IN Thailand, you get hits near the top for TV, but my experience out of the country has never turned up TV. And, TV also has much embellishing which is natural in such a forum which might make readers of it dismiss it as a place predominated by (potentially unfair) negativity about Thailand. Also, there is not a place where all this information is represented in multiple languages.

I know the idea is grand(iose), but I'm just asking.

[samsiam]

We need to gather pitch forks and some wagons....

[PaullyW]

Maybe call Robert Amsterdam? He's real good at political PR. Not sure how he would get PAID though ...

Somewhat more seriously, a hard core approach would totally backfire here. They'd likely just be aggravated and want to boot us all out!

A soft PR approach using humor and fun tailored to Thai tastes could have a cumulative effect if applied consistently for about 1000 years.

I wish I wasn't so cynical about this, but I reckon most long term expats would feel similarly.

This is funny. Thank you for a brief laugh in all this. I am calmer now, but I still think this is a serious topic that we should think about.

The Chinese didn't just give up. They were persecuted here for hundreds of years (some of the readers may know this). Instead of running away (ie - "if I/you don't like it here..", they effectively infiltrated the entire political and cultural system here to 'fight' for their place in the society. Nobody is going to give us anything. People have always had to fight.

You really think if a bunch of foreigners launched what essentially would be a PR campaign against Thai tourism, they would kick us all out!? I haven't been here THAT long, but I hope you are joking.

[Soutpeel]

We need to gather pitch forks and some wagons....

and a few gallons of contaminated blood as well

[jamescollister]

Just like a bar,shop, if you don't like the service go else where. Plenty of places to go and live.

Maybe the west could have learned from Thailand, WP and people who can pay for their life here. Thai 's arn't paying taxes to support me, think I like their system better then ours. Jim

[Soutpeel]

I haven't been here THAT long, but I hope you are joking.

Oh g*wd...another straight off the plane keyboard activist, sweeping in to right all that is wrong in Thailand.....why dont you become a missionary and go to Africa and fight for someones rights there.

What time you in class tomorrow ?

[yermanee]

Just to make a point, I too do not feel that I have been 'trampled on', but it does happen, and for people who want to do something about it (I realize not everyone will care, and I did mention that in my OP), I'm asking for ideas.

I am not saying Thailand is bad, and I actually have had a good experience here. But, what's wrong with aiming to have a central repository of sorts with warnings about Thailand -- esp those stories that might not usually make it out of Thailand? No hatred, no embellishing, but just a place where people can get information about things in Thailand and come to their own conclusions.

Right now, most of what exists are sites who benefit from tourism to Thailand so it's not in their best interests to report on any negative events that go on in Thailand.

If you take the time, the sort of information you are talking about is out there on the internet if one cares to even look...In fact even TV serves this purpose to a degree...

Surely, but TV is massive, and, in fact, I NEVER got a hit on ThaiVisa from outside of Thailand all the many times I've researched topics related to Thailand. When you are IN Thailand, you get hits near the top for TV, but my experience out of the country has never turned up TV. And, TV also has much embellishing which is natural in such a forum which might make readers of it dismiss it as a place predominated by (potentially unfair) negativity about Thailand. Also, there is not a place where all this information is represented in multiple languages.

I know the idea is grand(iose), but I'm just asking.

Have you ever read Don Quixote ?

No, then I suggest you do.

BTW there is allready more than enough negativity here on TV, in fact much too much for my taste.

Thailand has, as every country in this world, pro's and cons.

Try to enjoy the pro's and you might be surprised.

Yermanee

[thaibeachlovers]

Just to make a point, I too do not feel that I have been 'trampled on', but it does happen, and for people who want to do something about it (I realize not everyone will care, and I did mention that in my OP), I'm asking for ideas.

I am not saying Thailand is bad, and I actually have had a good experience here. But, what's wrong with aiming to have a central repository of sorts with warnings about Thailand -- esp those stories that might not usually make it out of Thailand? No hatred, no embellishing, but just a place where people can get information about things in Thailand and come to their own conclusions.

Right now, most of what exists are sites who benefit from tourism to Thailand so it's not in their best interests to report on any negative events that go on in Thailand.

Your "central repository of sorts with warnings about Thailand" already exists. Just google for info about Thailand.

Using Lonely Planet would be a waste of time- there are always people posting with the same reports of bus thefts and getting the same answers- people don't do searches BEFORE visiting Thailand.

Comparing farang rights with those of expats in western countries is pointless- like comparing apples and oranges.

No one is forced to stay here if they don't like it, and no way I'm joining a farang protest group.

[Ulysses G.]

Somewhat more seriously, a hard core approach would totally backfire here. They'd likely just be aggravated and want to boot us all out!

Exactly and many Westerners here are not the sort of people that I would want to be lumped in with as a group.

[NBD]

What would you actually want it to achieve? I think most people take reasonable precautions, and you don't have to spend too long on google to find the horror stories here and elsewhere if you want them. Most people don't. They want sun, sand and sex, and Thailand has it. Hundreds of thousands of visitors come here every year, most have no problems at all, some have a bad experience and a very few statistically speaking tragically don't make it home.

[MAJIC]

Whilst I agree with your Posting,there is much that could make living in Thailand a better experience for Ex Pats.

From the Point of view of Thais and their Government,we all live here on their terms,we are only tolerated because we spend our money here and improve their housing stock etc,so its a take it or leave it attitude,they will never give a good deal and make us truly welcome,it's all about money,they will never be dictated to by 'Farangs'

But good luck if you can manage to gain some minor concessions?

[tinfoilhat]

Somewhat more seriously, a hard core approach would totally backfire here. They'd likely just be aggravated and want to boot us all out!

Exactly and many Westerners here are not the sort of people that I would want to be lumped in with as a group.

quite. I agree completely.

I also detest the entitled mindset of the OP.

Thailand owes us very little, and to assume otherwise is presumptuous.

We are not immigrants, in fact the majority of us are specifically designated "non-immigrant".

and what would we warn people of -- "danger you may be robbed, killed, scammed, or otherwise?" my what a help that will be.

I have been treated remarkably well in Thailand for the most part and suggest the OP should seek his justice elsewhere

[jamescollister]

How Can We Foreigners Mobilize To Help Protect Our Own? Just because your white does not make people my own. Dislike more westeners then Thais, my own are my Thai wife and kids and the less farang plastic gangsters and wannabes here the better for us. Jim

[phanangpete]

Well Paullyw, youve been given a great intro to your first posting on this forum, dont let it deter you. Your topic is a very relevant one, ive lived here for 7 years now, not an old fart yet as i was in my forties when i decided to move here. I have vested interests here as im in business in Pattaya and one of the islands south where i live. Other posters have stated we have no rights and just get on with it. Well i agree with you, example what about the 3 mil plus thais who live abroad they integrate into communities and have the rights they are entitled to, that of a citizen. Many have returned educated with wealth and fit into the so called thai elite, do they ever respect the farang such as us living here, not to my knowledge.

If you want to make changes you have to attend expat meetings, talk to others at these and see what support you can muster.

In Pattaya for wxample the mayor is on fb and because of posteres, over a two year period hae is tackling the jet ski scam, its a start, also most Embassies have discussion boards try that.

Today i sent an email to the Can Em, stating that many people would be monitoring the outcome of the tradgety of those two young girls

Best of luck to you, if you give me your email ill get back to you.

[MrRed]

My bro's tuk tuk is at the ready if needed...all farangs in the area notified by word of drum...we are ready!!

No!

No!

Thailand's got talent has just started....can you wait a bit?

[chops]

My former country(usa) never cared about me. I had voting right too! So much for that..

[StreetCowboy]

Maybe call Robert Amsterdam? He's real good at political PR. Not sure how he would get PAID though ...

Somewhat more seriously, a hard core approach would totally backfire here. They'd likely just be aggravated and want to boot us all out!

A soft PR approach using humor and fun tailored to Thai tastes could have a cumulative effect if applied consistently for about 1000 years.

I wish I wasn't so cynical about this, but I reckon most long term expats would feel similarly.

This is funny. Thank you for a brief laugh in all this. I am calmer now, but I still think this is a serious topic that we should think about.

The Chinese didn't just give up. They were persecuted here for hundreds of years (some of the readers may know this). Instead of running away (ie - "if I/you don't like it here..", they effectively infiltrated the entire political and cultural system here to 'fight' for their place in the society. Nobody is going to give us anything. People have always had to fight.

You really think if a bunch of foreigners launched what essentially would be a PR campaign against Thai tourism, they would kick us all out!? I haven't been here THAT long, but I hope you are joking.

I think you'll find the Chinese are just as oppressed and persecuted as they ever were, unless they up sticks and move to the US or Europe or Australia. Unlike the Chinese, we can vote with our feet - a much greater political freedom than Thais enjoy.

One of the problems that you will encounter is the natural antipathy that your aggressive language stirs up. So long as you portray an "us v them" battle, you will find that it is a lonely battle. Perhaps you could take a more constructive approach, and join one of the many foreign chambers of commerce, or an expat club, or visit your embassy. I think you may find that we are actually quite well looked after.

Perhaps you could take up cudgels on behalf of Burmese migrant workers, or migrant Thais overseas, or someone who is actually disadvantaged.

SC