'Secrets Bar & Hotel' Raid Leads To American Manager's Arrest: Pattaya

[freedom4life]

Arrested?...Perhaps the fact that the owner is an expat and probably wasn't paying his dues..to you know who. What tripe.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Almost certainly the yearly 'police' protection' money to turn a blind eye was not paid or paid to the wrong senior official. Maybe because it was a Farang owned Bar and the protection money wanted had gone up and was too high. So now he will have to pay a lot more but then can return to business as usual. Strange why all the other ladies working there were also not arrested!! Or the bar was not shut down!! So many of the bars in Pattaya are owned by the Thai Police that is why they getaway with selling alcohol on days that are deemed non alcoholic days.

No.

The type of payment you are talking about goes to local cops.

Nothing to do with national level cops.

[FarangBuddha]

3000 baht, getting very expensive, do you get a bottle of Leo included

I think that was the real crime...glad the police stepped in to stop this blatant price-gouging!

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Interesting that it was Bangkok police who raided the bar.

Well, they have been in business for what, almost 6 years now ? The fact that it was the Bangkok BiB should speak volumns. I recall when a (former) owner of the Wet 'n Wild got busted at his home (for drugs and such), it was the Bangkok BiB that did the deed then too. And awhile back there was a story about a Thai brothel (in Pattaya) being raided by, yep, the Bangkok BiB. That one was apparently to do with underaged "staff" as well.

Seems they need the BfB (Boys from Bangkok) to do the jobs here that the locals don't/won't/can't do themselves.

More like it gives the local plods deniability when all their other customers ask exactly what their protection money is actually paying for. God forbid all the bribing bar owners start asking for refunds 8-)

Because prostitution per se is not illegal in Thailand. There is nothing illegal about meeting a girl/boy and going back to your room, having sex and paying for it. Promiscuous prostitution is however illegal and certainly running, effectively, a brothel is too.

Aha, promiscuous prostitution, as opposed to the other kind (celibate?)

Perhaps you meant blatant, open, as opposed to discreet or hidden?

IMO the key distinction is that a business can't openly offer the sex for sale, it just lets its staff do so ostensibly without knowing what's going on.

And of course not providing premises for such activities.

Secrets has short time rooms? however if they do it's prob no different than any other Gogo or coyote bar I suspect.

In fact very few do, and I'm sure they have to pay a lot more protection money for the privilege.

My suspicion is that it was either the underage factor or his hubris in publicly flaunting his wealth that brought this down on his head, in either case som nam na.

[ChangFai]

UPDATE:

Pattaya Times Editor's Note:

The raid and arrest on Pattaya Secrets Bar on Walking Street is unfortunate because in it widely accepted that in the "Red Light" designated areas of Walking Street and nearby PattayaLand and BoysTown offer adult entertainment and nightlife.

The raid most likely occurred following reports to NGOs in Thailand and the national police that Pattaya Secrets Bar was openly stating on its websites sexual services were offered in the comments by postings in the forums. Also, the manger-on-duty was a foreigner.

Operating a bar with hostesses and bar girls openly in Thailand is prohibited for foreigners under Thai law. Please see http://pattaya-times...-b-e-2542-1999.

Conclusion: Do not blatantly admit what goes on in the bar on your own named websites open to the public worldwide and don't have a white, foreigner manager on site. Pattaya Secrets was an easy target for the police to make a strong statement.

Update: National Police Crackdown on Human Trafficking in Pattaya and make arrests. The first arrest by the Thai national police has been made of a foreign manager at Pattaya Secrets. Foreigners should not be involved in managing bars on the premises in the entertainment district zoned specifically for the "red light" district.

Source: http://pattaya-times..._medium=twitter

[brewsterbudgen]

Because prostitution per se is not illegal in Thailand. There is nothing illegal about meeting a girl/boy and going back to your room, having sex and paying for it. Promiscuous prostitution is however illegal and certainly running, effectively, a brothel is too.

Aha, promiscuous prostitution, as opposed to the other kind (celibate?)

Perhaps you meant blatant, open, as opposed to discreet or hidden?

IMO the key distinction is that a business can't openly offer the sex for sale, it just lets its staff do so ostensibly without knowing what's going on.

And of course not providing premises for such activities.

No, I'm quoting the translation of the Thai Act.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

How is it this news worthy article has failed to run on Pattaya One. Did they overlook something or is that a statement

about underage sex and illegal activities are OK for some blokes.

I was reading on another forum that one of the managers got a 16 yo pregnant about 5 years ago, if this is true that guy should get the max. Both in this country than in his. Keep in mind that the 16yo was most likely working at the venue years before getting knocked up.

She was a maid, very common to have young teens in that position. But pretty stupid for everyone involved to do so in a business like this.

You do know the age of consent in Thailand is 15 don't you ? yes there is some caveats but 15 it is.

15 might rightly be so the legal age.

Commercial arrangements (and what percentage of farang-Thai liaisons aren't?) bring the age up to 19. But of course that's only "enforced" (usually = "blackmailed") wrt foreigners.

Hmmm, so if true, you think he had the girl's parents' permission?

That's not relevant legally, but can make a difference for non-monetary relationships (again how many?) in upcountry situations where the local BiB in practice don't care and it seems to be a genuine marriage-type relationship.

They'll certainly do you for trying to buy your way into teeny knickers on a just-passing-through basis almost anywhere in Thailand.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I am not exactly a prude, and I'm the first to be in favour of people doing what they want to do, as long as it doesn't make a noise or scare the horses, but I do see a colossal difference between someone picking up an independent voluntary "friend" of whatever sex, age or type on Beach Rd or in a bar, and someone running a bordello "bar" where they have a detailed price list for "services" on the wall or, worse, on their website.

The former doesn't bother me at all, but the latter is clearly unpleasant at best and probably trafficking at worst.

I read these threads and think people just don't get it. Running a brothel in Thailand is illegal. Under age girls and human trafficking is an international offence. Human rights groups, FBI. and other agencies are out there. When they bring evidence to the national police they have to act. Lucky the guy is not in some other nearby countries where human trafficking Carry's life. Just because you have some deal with the locals means nothing. He's a yank and I believe as in many western counties now, he will be charged in his home nation as well.

Let's please keep the term "trafficking" to mean transporting across national borders coupled with the use of force or deceptions eg promising waitress jobs in Tokyo.

The anti-sex-trade generally fundamentalist Christian sponsored NGO industry has gotten a lot of mileage out of conflating all commercial sex industry activities with the "underage" and "trafficking" bugaboo witch hunt (in league with sensationalist media pushing eyeballs) in order to boost the cushy scam they've got going on, funded by gullible Americans largely taxpayers but also private donors.

if the mamasan is being "accused" with mingling and wondering and she ADMITTED to accusations, then I bet both my nuggets she is in on it

I've very rarely heard of any common Thai ever deny any charges, even when they've obviously been fabricated as a PR exercise - the BiB seem to have a magic ability to extract confessions, complete with a dramatic re-enactment for the media. Wonder why that is?

[NewlyMintedThai]

And good on them for it!

[BigJohnnyBKK]

And who is the foreign undercover slimeball who is assisting the corrupt and inept Thai police in regulating this industry? No doubt, he wants to stay unknown.

If think it's in everyone's interest except the pedo's that every possible measure be taken to prevent underage girls from being made available to western foreigners.

Of course expecting the Thai-on-Thai trade to do the same is simply impossible, but if at least the NES and other Europeans are denied such opportunities, our governments' foreign services and law enforcement agencies - whose task forces against the UA aspects of the sex industry do actively operate here - will continue to allow us to partake in the adult trade with a minimum of interference.

If the Japan Korean Taiwan etc governments cared, they could provide the same level of protection to UA Thai girls from their own citizens, but it appears they aren't that fussed about the whole issue.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

No, I'm quoting the translation of the Thai Act.

Aha, that explains the incompetence, thought maybe you weren't a NES for a moment there. . .

[NewlyMintedThai]

I am not exactly a prude, and I'm the first to be in favour of people doing what they want to do, as long as it doesn't make a noise or scare the horses, but I do see a colossal difference between someone picking up an independent voluntary "friend" of whatever sex, age or type on Beach Rd or in a bar, and someone running a bordello "bar" where they have a detailed price list for "services" on the wall or, worse, on their website.

The former doesn't bother me at all, but the latter is clearly unpleasant at best and probably trafficking at worst.

I read these threads and think people just don't get it. Running a brothel in Thailand is illegal. Under age girls and human trafficking is an international offence. Human rights groups, FBI. and other agencies are out there. When they bring evidence to the national police they have to act. Lucky the guy is not in some other nearby countries where human trafficking Carry's life. Just because you have some deal with the locals means nothing. He's a yank and I believe as in many western counties now, he will be charged in his home nation as well.

Let's please keep the term "trafficking" to mean transporting across national borders coupled with the use of force or deceptions eg promising waitress jobs in Tokyo.

The anti-sex-trade generally fundamentalist Christian sponsored NGO industry has gotten a lot of mileage out of conflating all commercial sex industry activities with the "underage" and "trafficking" bugaboo witch hunt (in league with sensationalist media pushing eyeballs) in order to boost the cushy scam they've got going on, funded by gullible Americans largely taxpayers but also private donors.

if the mamasan is being "accused" with mingling and wondering and she ADMITTED to accusations, then I bet both my nuggets she is in on it

I've very rarely heard of any common Thai ever deny any charges, even when they've obviously been fabricated as a PR exercise - the BiB seem to have a magic ability to extract confessions, complete with a dramatic re-enactment for the media. Wonder why that is?

Well, for one thing, sentences are always halved -- and sometimes commuted -- when the defendant cops a guilty plea.

Second, most know the jig's up and there is plenty of evidence to convict.

Third, many Thais don't have the financial ability to hire a decent lawyer for what may be a lengthy (and ultimately futile) case.

Edited June 19, 2012 by NewlyMintedThai

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I haven't been as shocked since i learned that the girls who stand in front of the Nana Hotel in BKK are not nuns.

Most aren't even girls. . .

[brewsterbudgen]

I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the same ratbag that went undercover in the Silver Star 3 raid in January.

If the motivation for this is the underage issue, and that actually turns out to be true, could we maybe applaud this guy for a job well done rather than trying to talk like mafioso ourselves? Enough of those here in the LoS, and they don't all wear brown.

I think you'll find the motivation was money. If the Thai authorities really cared about human trafficking and child prostitution they'd be raiding the countless karaoke bars and massage parlours throughout the Kingdom.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I've very rarely heard of any common Thai ever deny any charges, even when they've obviously been fabricated as a PR exercise - the BiB seem to have a magic ability to extract confessions, complete with a dramatic re-enactment for the media. Wonder why that is?

Well, for one thing, sentences are always halved -- and sometimes commuted -- when the defendant cops a guilty plea.

Second, most kniw the jig's up abd there is plenty if evidence to convict.

Third, many Thais don't have the financial ability to hure a decent lawyer for what may be a lengthy (and ultimately futile) case.

All true.

Plus the fact that they know there's no real rule of law here, and being in the hands of the BiB is roughly equivalent to being kidnapped in Columbia.

Friend of mine was shown a back room with bare wires connected to car batteries sitting under the interrogation chair too, and he was just getting scammed for buying a baggie of ganja from the BiB's flunky selling out of a KSR bar. . .

All of which I think are a bit more dramatic than your admittedly more commonplace reasons.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the same ratbag that went undercover in the Silver Star 3 raid in January.

If the motivation for this is the underage issue, and that actually turns out to be true, could we maybe applaud this guy for a job well done rather than trying to talk like mafioso ourselves? Enough of those here in the LoS, and they don't all wear brown.

I think you'll find the motivation was money. If the Thai authorities really cared about human trafficking and child prostitution they'd be raiding the countless karaoke bars and massage parlours throughout the Kingdom.

I never claimed they actually care.

My point is that our governments are funding the efforts to keep these aspects away from the segments of the industry that cater to their citizens.

And that's a worthy cause isn't it, whatever the methods.

Personally I think the various western LE task forces working on these issues here should just hand over the evidence they collect to the most evil BiB blackmailers and their cutie-pie underage accomplices and let them get on with beefing up the LoS's hard currency reserves privately.

Could turn into quite the growth industry in some parts of the country. . .

[Tolley]

Most people here are missing the point.

Secrets is breaking the law and as manager nice guy or not as the man on the spot Larry is being held responsible.

Just because everyone else is doing it is no argument either. It is still illegal.

Many other bars both Thai and foreign owned get raided as well for a variety of reasons.

This is nothing new and in fact is a regular occurrence in Pattaya.

As i mentioned before if you leave yourself vulnerable in Thailand for long enough one day somebody is going to come along and take advantage of you. It doesnt really matter who is responsible for the raid or who tipped off the police or what foreigner participated in the raid they are all side issues.

The fact that Secrets were openly advertising everywhere made it even more likely that one day they were going to pay the price.

How many times over the years do you see foreigners in thailand who think they have it all figured out because they have been getting away with stuff for years go down in a heap?

Plenty in my experience.

[simple1]

The foreigner who took part in the operation was not a member of any local foreign police volunteer unit. He works solely for the CSD. He is a tall American, speaks good Thai and has tattoos on his arms.

Sorry, I took <One of the foreign undercover police volunteers> to refer to a Pattaya TPV. Whoever he works for, my opinion of him is unprintable!

Why? What's your objection if it turns out to be true that underage girls were being prostituted?

[TommyDee]

QUOTE....Tommy, are you not a share holder in Secrets, maybe you can find out what really happened

sorry for the delay in replying, i just clicked in and now have the brown liquid you can buy in a bottle resembling those used by jack Daniels.. all over my new keyboard ( pls email the cash)

You are obviously barking......... up the wrong tree dear boy. I have NEVER been involved in a bar, guest house or other entertainment venue in Thailand other than as a customer. if I were, then I probably wouldnt have to work every day, read the news, do a show ( such as it is) or put up with a wife who gets older by the week, when. If i were a bar owner, I could simply chop her back into stock and take a newer model.

I simply work here at the tin shack and worry about MY business.. which is the "fabulous" 103 FM www.pattaya103.com.. Its not a big business but its FUN.

but it was a nice try sadly, for HMP1971 Peeing on the pic is seen more as a customer sport than a management or investor bonus, which is how I was included ( Gold medal, 2005 to date BTW)

[Spoonman]

I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the same ratbag that went undercover in the Silver Star 3 raid in January.

If the motivation for this is the underage issue, and that actually turns out to be true, could we maybe applaud this guy for a job well done rather than trying to talk like mafioso ourselves? Enough of those here in the LoS, and they don't all wear brown.

I think you'll find the motivation was money. If the Thai authorities really cared about human trafficking and child prostitution they'd be raiding the countless karaoke bars and massage parlours throughout the Kingdom.

Motivation is money but nothing really to do with a stipend paid to the police. "raid" was orchestrated from within the "Secrets" empire, or so ive heard.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Spoonman

[FarangBuddha]

I haven't been as shocked since i learned that the girls who stand in front of the Nana Hotel in BKK are not nuns.

Most aren't even girls. . .

And thank heavens for that

[kerryk]

Most people here are missing the point.

Secrets is breaking the law and as manager nice guy or not as the man on the spot Larry is being held responsible.

Just because everyone else is doing it is no argument either. It is still illegal.

Many other bars both Thai and foreign owned get raided as well for a variety of reasons.

This is nothing new and in fact is a regular occurrence in Pattaya.

As i mentioned before if you leave yourself vulnerable in Thailand for long enough one day somebody is going to come along and take advantage of you. It doesnt really matter who is responsible for the raid or who tipped off the police or what foreigner participated in the raid they are all side issues.

The fact that Secrets were openly advertising everywhere made it even more likely that one day they were going to pay the price.

How many times over the years do you see foreigners in thailand who think they have it all figured out because they have been getting away with stuff for years go down in a heap?

Plenty in my experience.

I would say you may be missing the point. I would bet that 90% of the men who read the Pattaya forum also break the law as far as P4P goes. Trolly you and a couple of others may be the lone rangers!

[brewsterbudgen]

I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the same ratbag that went undercover in the Silver Star 3 raid in January.

If the motivation for this is the underage issue, and that actually turns out to be true, could we maybe applaud this guy for a job well done rather than trying to talk like mafioso ourselves? Enough of those here in the LoS, and they don't all wear brown.

I think you'll find the motivation was money. If the Thai authorities really cared about human trafficking and child prostitution they'd be raiding the countless karaoke bars and massage parlours throughout the Kingdom.

Motivation is money but nothing really to do with a stipend paid to the police. "raid" was orchestrated from within the "Secrets" empire, or so ive heard.

Care to elaborate?

[KeyserSoze01]

Wouldn't be the first time or the last where someone with a grievance began making problems for an establishment. It seems that the "screw your partner" tactic is very much in vogue with the business "elites" in Pattaya. I know of a few where the damaged party simply walked away, writing off the investment as an abject lesson, but I do know of a few where problems arose after said screwee went after the alleged screwer.

[kerryk]

Years ago I would have bought a strip club here except for two things. DJ's and Piss boys (toilet employees). Most clubs have them world over. I would shoot them all. I couldn't help myself. More worthless scum don't exist on the face of the earth. DJ's are especially loathsome as the customers always hate them and they usually threaten the owner/manager.

They are the first ones I would look at in any kind of problem.

[puipuitom]

THIS is the reason why I will NEVER invest one single baht in Thailand. NEVER, NEVER and NEVER the locals can be trusted as are in for one thing only: get as much money out of your into their pocket. Ladies ( and boys) offering certain services is as standard in Pattaya as the weather is hot ( for a west-European). Only ONE reason the farang owner is busted: not enough t-money at the right spot.

Therefore..

[striderman]

Could this be anything to do with the much discussed customer, who was staying at Secrets and was getting through millions of baht per month?

He was mentioned by Stick.

He had the money to set this up, but it would seem, not the brains.

But if the BiB saw how much this guy was spending at the bar, their eyes could have turned green.

this was my first thought on the matter too, that the high spending reported by stick had attracted the atentions of others who fancied a piece of the pie

[hm1973]

Loving the "update" in Pattaya Times....wonder why they keep mentioning me......anyone else think someone is trying to have a dig at me over there. A poor attempt at it, if that is the case

[marinediscoking]

Could this be anything to do with the much discussed customer, who was staying at Secrets and was getting through millions of baht per month?

He was mentioned by Stick.

He had the money to set this up, but it would seem, not the brains.

But if the BiB saw how much this guy was spending at the bar, their eyes could have turned green.

this was my first thought on the matter too, that the high spending reported by stick had attracted the atentions of others who fancied a piece of the pie

This is my feeling also, but I don't think they did it for not getting a piece of the pie but how he was taken advantage of and got someone else involved, possibly relatives though his embassy.

Edited June 19, 2012 by marinediscoking

[striderman]

as to some of the other comments on this thread a great many are wide of the mark.

for one thing secrets must be one of the tamest bars on walking st.

upstairs most of the 24 rooms are run as a hotel.

as for larry being rich don't make me laugh he rents a 29 mr room in one of the cheapest condos in pattaya.

he's a nice guy and merely the manager, and in the many times i have been in the bar i have never once seen him handle money, some of the story just does not ring true. but when do reporters ever wory about that when telling a tale