Seeing People Snap Over Very Little Things

[StreetCowboy]

Disrespectful locals and foreigners is a common sight in a country which promote drunk wifebashing foreigners with money more than decent people who want to become part of this country. In my opinion you get what you give.

What have you received, in return for your stereotypng bigoted prejudice?

Apart from arsey comments from cheeky monkeys on the internet)

SC

TV Cricket

Because 'arsey' is 'two-cheeky'

We're the team with two knees

Sorry didn't know you recognized yourself as one of them.

Though it may sound a bit crude it's not that far from the truth now is it?

I don't have any experience of Thailand valuing drunk wife-bashing foreigners with money more than people who want to become part of this country.

On the other hand, I'm not very good at forming judgements on people, nor of identifying the general ills that seem to befall my fellows on this forum, but for all that, I still don't rely on the prejudices of others, if I can avoid it, preferring to use my own inherited prejudices, or, if needs be, do without.

I suppose I should stop being such a stereotypical brit, and take more interest in those around me, and their entertaining little foibles, but I think too many people form their opinions and stereotypes of others based on what they read on this forum, and superficial appearances of strangers.

SC

[BigJohnnyBKK]

The point I was making is that Thailand would be great if it wasn't full of thais.

its an ongoing joke. just pick any country and remember to change to the nationality that suits.

Overheard in the faculty lounge - "this would be a great school to work for if it weren't for the students".

Try to get the police to attend a domestic back home. Good luck with that! Screws up the statistics when these incidents aren't reported because they know they won't be responded to.

Just sayin'

Very much depends on the local community. In my experience those with reasonable resources to allocate relative to the level of crime, domestic violence is dealt with very sharply, quickly and often effectively.

The weak link is very often the abused spouse, who quickly decides to forgive and forget and puts herself right back in harm's way.

Edited June 23, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[PaullyW]

Yes. I have even seen people turn violent, though that is a rare sight. Some also get very vociferous too.

Thailand, Thai logic (??) and the Thai way can be very frustrating at times and can drive you up the wall and be very stressful if you allow it to be. The idea is to know and understand it and back away when you are hitting that brick wall. Life is too short to get stressed out. Yet many are unable to see their own bad reactions are a waste of time.

Count to ten, turn away, take a deep breath and try a different tack later.

After all, we are here to enjoy life, are we not?

Yes, the best method is just to avoid as many Thais as you can. Only interact with the ones that you must.

Hmmm. It would seem to me that if one's goal in life was to avoid Thais, then one would consider living in a country other than Thailand. Lots of Thais in Thailand, no? Does it really take a rocket scientist to figure this out? But then Thailand is not renown for having particularly bright expats.

But then Thailand is not renown for having particularly bright expats.

Certainly, and the proof is all around us, even on display in this thread. We might be absolutely shocked to know that some expats are actually sent here! I know it's hard to believe. It took me awhile to accept. Not everyone is here by choice.

[Suradit69]

I would hate to live my life like that, I tend to giggle to my self when I watch others lose it. But there is a fine line between getting made a fool of and others taking the p&s.

Where do you draw your line?

Farang tend to go ballistic whenever they lose face and feel they aren't being treated as God's gift to humanity.

[PaullyW]

I would hate to live my life like that, I tend to giggle to my self when I watch others lose it. But there is a fine line between getting made a fool of and others taking the p&s.

Where do you draw your line?

Farang tend to go ballistic whenever they lose face and feel they aren't being treated as God's gift to humanity.

Farangs don't have "face" so none to lose. Farangs generally get upset when people are disrespectful. Please don't use the silly, immature concept of "face" on Farangs.

[SOTIRIOS]

...being a visible minority is not easy, for sure...

....and this is not heaven, after all...

...African Americans, for the longest time, had undue stress, high blood pressure and illnesses...maybe still do...

....I can relate...

....and whatever anyone wants to pretend...there is hatred and resentment directed towards 'us'...

....constant insult...even heckling...if you can understand some Thai...

....'xenophobia'...

(But that does not mean it is okay to be rude or violent or abusive, back....)

People do reach their 'breaking point, though...

Being constantly lied to and cheated adds up.....it is a shame....

"...Scam, scam, everywhere a scam.....lalalalala..lalalalalala..."

[NoshowJones]

I can at times see why the Farangs can get a little upset here in Thailand but we are not so laid back as the locals are and we do not accept the way they do thing so over here.

What really winds me up is when I am in a shop either bein gserved or waiting inline when a local will just shout at what they want, or push to the front and expect to get served immediately. To make things worse the person who is serving also accepts this as a way of life and says not a word but serves them. This has also happened in my bank and at immigration. This is not a Farang thing the locals do the same to each other. No manners.

However I do except that there some Farang who (probably with the aid of alcohol)are not at all tolerant to others.

I waited in a queue of about ten at an Aeon ATM (no 150Baht charge) a man walked to the front,card in hand, I left the queue, walked up to him, just stood staring at him and said nothing. He then walked away.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Farangs don't have "face" so none to lose. Farangs generally get upset when people are disrespectful. Please don't use the silly, immature concept of "face" on Farangs.

What a crock.

Some cultures/subcultures in farang countries don't put much stock in what others think of you, but many still do.

One's reputation among the community is very very important to many many farang, and that's all that face is.

It happens to be based on showing off wrt material wealth more so here than other places, but even that aspect is far from absent in modern capitalist farangland is it?

"Status" "Keeping up with the Joneses" "Conspicuous consumption" etc etc aren't exactly limited to Asian cultures are they?

They just happen to have a convenient one-word label for the phenomenon, just shows greater linguistic self-awareness IMO.

...being a visible minority is not easy, for sure...

....and this is not heaven, after all...

. . .

"...Scam, scam, everywhere a scam.....lalalalala..lalalalalala..."

You have the power to change your reality. Primarily by changing yourself and your outlook.

That aspect of life here just becomes unimportant when you take yourself out of that part of the society focused on it, and are no longer vulnerable to it yourself

Edited June 24, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[StreetCowboy]

I would hate to live my life like that, I tend to giggle to my self when I watch others lose it. But there is a fine line between getting made a fool of and others taking the p&s.

Where do you draw your line?

Farang tend to go ballistic whenever they lose face and feel they aren't being treated as God's gift to humanity.

Farangs don't have "face" so none to lose. Farangs generally get upset when people are disrespectful. Please don't use the silly, immature concept of "face" on Farangs.

SPeak for yourself. I get very aggrieved when I am offended through lack of respect. There is nothing 'foreign' or 'asian' about the concept of face. The way that it is applied, and the importance attached to it, may vary, but the concept is universal.

SC

[PaullyW]

Farangs don't have "face" so none to lose. Farangs generally get upset when people are disrespectful. Please don't use the silly, immature concept of "face" on Farangs.

What a crock.

Some cultures/subcultures in farang countries don't put much stock in what others think of you, but many still do.

One's reputation among the community is very very important to many many farang, and that's all that face is.

It happens to be based on showing off wrt material wealth more so here than other places, but even that aspect is far from absent in modern capitalist farangland is it?

"Status" "Keeping up with the Joneses" "Conspicuous consumption" etc etc aren't exactly limited to Asian cultures are they?

They just happen to have a convenient one-word label for the phenomenon, just shows greater linguistic self-awareness IMO.

...being a visible minority is not easy, for sure...

....and this is not heaven, after all...

. . .

"...Scam, scam, everywhere a scam.....lalalalala..lalalalalala..."

You have the power to change your reality. Primarily by changing yourself and your outlook.

That aspect of life here just becomes important when you take yourself out of that part of the society focused on it, and are no longer vulnerable to it yourself

No, yours is a crock. Whatever that is.

That is not all face is. I'm surprised that you don't know this. If that's all it was, you wouldn't have western corporations making distinctions and teaching it to their assignees. You also wouldn't have lengthy books being written about it's distinctions. Lastly, believe it or not, "face" is not a Thai or asian word. Linguistic self awareness? Nice try. Ask a Thai to explain the concept of face in one word, and see what you get. There is NO word to define it. Not at all. You've failed on almost every point here in this post.

http://www.transitio..._in_china.shtml

"One of the most poignant and powerful illustrations of this collectivist, inclusive face-saving/giving strategy, I have ever read, is expressed in the following example by Hammond and Glenn (1988, p. 28):

An example of this can be found in a recent Chinese colleague who was awarded a post-doctoral research fellowship in Europe. The colleague, who was studying in Taiwan at the time, passed up the prestigious fellowship. He later revealed that his father was unemployed at the time and he thought accepting the fellowship would deepen his father's shame, disrupt their relationship, and put the family relationships out of balance. "It is important," he said, "for the first son to be ready to assume the role of head of the family when the father is ready to give it up, not before."

In this case, the young Chinese scholar never directly shared his feelings with his father who would have been shocked and shamed by his position. But his father implicitly understood what his son was doing, and deeply appreciated his son's face saving choices."

You can bet your as_s that you wouldn't find many westerners doing something like this.

Edited June 24, 2012 by PaullyW

[PaullyW]

I would hate to live my life like that, I tend to giggle to my self when I watch others lose it. But there is a fine line between getting made a fool of and others taking the p&s.

Where do you draw your line?

Farang tend to go ballistic whenever they lose face and feel they aren't being treated as God's gift to humanity.

Farangs don't have "face" so none to lose. Farangs generally get upset when people are disrespectful. Please don't use the silly, immature concept of "face" on Farangs.

SPeak for yourself. I get very aggrieved when I am offended through lack of respect. There is nothing 'foreign' or 'asian' about the concept of face. The way that it is applied, and the importance attached to it, may vary, but the concept is universal.

SC

Wrong. See my above post.

What you and BKK are doing is to try to correlate FACE to similar (BUT NOT IDENTICAL) western concepts. They are not exactly the same.

[NBD]

What is face then? I've read a bit about it, but never really heard a better explanation than an form of vanity with an absurd degree of importance attached to it by some (though not al) Asians.

[PaullyW]

What is face then? I've read a bit about it, but never really heard a better explanation than an form of vanity with an absurd degree of importance attached to it by some (though not al) Asians.

Check out this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(sociological_concept)

Apparently, it's quite more complex than can be summed up in one sentence as some posters are trying to do here (lazily).

[tutsiwarrior]

losing yer rag is ultimately self defeating as you always want to be liked...and here's tutsi at home with an incontinence 'accident' and: 'oh, darling...can you help me?' and then the wife shouts at the nieces: 'get in there and clean up yer uncle tutsi's mess!' and then they assist...

and then later I can buy them some khanom and everyone is together which would be unlikely if there was unpleasantness...

[BigJohnnyBKK]

What is face then? I've read a bit about it, but never really heard a better explanation than an form of vanity with an absurd degree of importance attached to it by some (though not al) Asians.

Check out this link: http://en.wikipedia....logical_concept)

Apparently, it's quite more complex than can be summed up in one sentence as some posters are trying to do here (lazily).

Your link is broken, FTFY here

And academics can certainly write entire books about relatively simple ideas - in this case my perhaps simplistic definition in no way contradicts these more complete ones.

Ivana Trump was a friend of the family, and both her and Donald are quite sensitive to anyone showing them disrespect. As far as I know neither are Asian.

I think one difference is that ordinary people here can value their face as much as touchy rich celebrities do back home, and it's commonly acceptable to do so, whereas in most farang common-people cultures that's considered being up yourself too much.

However the phenomenon itself is certainly not an Asian one but a human one, just different extents, manifestations and levels of acceptance as valid in various socio-economic contexts as well as national-level cultures.

[Geekfreaklover]

Witnessed a few outbursts in Macdonalds. Haha.

My favourite however was an Englishman in a True TV office in Surin town. The guy exploded after he had subscribed to the package, had it installed, and then discovered he was unable to watch the world cup football.

I could imagine the conversation between the shop assistant and the enraged farang a few weeks before.

Red farang: ~ I just want to watch the world cup on TV. I live in the tiny village with nothing to do. I just want to watch the world cup football. If I buy the package can I watch the football world cup? It is very important Can I watch the world cup football with True?

Shop assistant: Yes, football, have, football. Velly good for you.

Edited June 24, 2012 by Geekfreaklover

[thaibeachlovers]

If you are yourself under stress it is easy to lose it, and in LOS there are so many things to lose it over.

However, moving to a Thai town where there is nothing to go out for helps.

Then it's only when you HAVE to go to immigration that you will feel impelled to lose it.

The rest of the time you can just watch tv and have a quiet, calm life.

Seriously, people usually lose it because they have an anger management problem, and they bring that with them to Thailand.

[dingdang]

the thais like it so much, seeing when a westerner is loosing it...

they take big efforts, to provocate - so there must be a big need to see it...

[sirineou]

What is face then? I've read a bit about it, but never really heard a better explanation than an form of vanity with an absurd degree of importance attached to it by some (though not al) Asians.

Check out this link: http://en.wikipedia....logical_concept)

Apparently, it's quite more complex than can be summed up in one sentence as some posters are trying to do here (lazily).

Your link is broken, FTFY here

And academics can certainly write entire books about relatively simple ideas - in this case my perhaps simplistic definition in no way contradicts these more complete ones.

Ivana Trump was a friend of the family, and both her and Donald are quite sensitive to anyone showing them disrespect. As far as I know neither are Asian.

I think one difference is that ordinary people here can value their face as much as touchy rich celebrities do back home, and it's commonly acceptable to do so, whereas in most farang common-people cultures that's considered being up yourself too much.

However the phenomenon itself is certainly not an Asian one but a human one, just different extents, manifestations and levels of acceptance as valid in various socio-economic contexts as well as national-level cultures.

Sorry to disagree with you on this one

the desire for,respect is a human characteristic, and some time is exasperated by hubris.

But " Face" is a Asian concept , in that it is deeply ingrained with in the cultural fabric

.It determines how one is viewed by the other members with in his cultural group, and the individuals ability to effectively function with in that group

.In extreme cases and in some Asian countries it can express it's self in ways not seen in western countries, such as " Honor killings" etc.

[notime]

I'd say there is another reason here - YABA or ICE. It makes people uncontrollable angry two days after they take it. The first day they party or are having sex and the second day they sleep. When they wake up they are like zombies going around snapping at people or beating them up. Beware!

[smokie36]

My gf was watching the A-team movie yesterday. I'm sure she said something about face.....

[glbv]

I think seeing foreigners snap has a lot to do with pent up frustrations. You see them snapping what you don't see is the daily aggravations that are in effect Chinese water torture. 1 incident wont do much but the build up will drive you mad.

[sirineou]

I think seeing foreigners snap has a lot to do with pent up frustrations. You see them snapping what you don't see is the daily aggravations that are in effect Chinese water torture. 1 incident wont do much but the build up will drive you mad.

I have to agree with you there,

I was at global house waiting in the office to place my order, there were were a number of seats there, and people waited for their turn,no numbers just the seats. I sat there and waited, only to watch thais walk in , walk at the head of the line and be taken cared of, the first time I thought it was a honest mistake, the second time I got uncomfortable, the third time I blew my top, and it takes a lot for this to happen to me,

and told the girl at the desk, what was going on,in a loud voice.

she replied, sorry sir, I will take you in ten minutes,

I said " no you wont, because in 10 minutes I will be at the home pro store down the street" and walked out.

It was not only this individual incident that made me loose my cool, it was the accumulation of a Thousand of small irritations that made me loose it.

And I have to admit, I enjoyed it.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Sorry to disagree with you on this one

No problem rational discussions most welcome.

the desire for,respect is a human characteristic, and some time is exasperated by hubris.

But " Face" is a Asian concept , in that it is deeply ingrained with in the cultural fabric

.It determines how one is viewed by the other members with in his cultural group, and the individuals ability to effectively function with in that group

.In extreme cases and in some Asian countries it can express it's self in ways not seen in western countries, such as " Honor killings" etc.

Honor killings happen all the time in western cultures, they're just not part of the accepted mainstream/dominant culture anymore.

IMO the phenomenon itself is a human one, and some cultures simply exhibit/accept it more or less, and it manifests differently in different contexts/places/cultures etc.

Since we don't have a single simple word to act as shorthand for the whole complex of attitudes/beliefs/behaviors, coupled with the fact that it is more important to ordinary people in Asia, often at a level only seen by self-important (wealthy/famous) people in the west, means that the west has fooled itself into thinking this is yet another of those things that makes the "them" different from "us".

Which of course they are, but only in degree and in details, not in the fundamentals motivations.

At the individual level within ourselves and small groups, we're all just human in the end.

IMO.

I asked my mum about this, she's German, and she reckons small-town Germans were exactly like the Thais sixty years ago, but the young urban ones today are not.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I have to agree with you there,

I was at global house waiting in the office to place my order, there were were a number of seats there, and people waited for their turn,no numbers just the seats. I sat there and waited, only to watch thais walk in , walk at the head of the line and be taken cared of, the first time I thought it was a honest mistake, the second time I got uncomfortable, the third time I blew my top, and it takes a lot for this to happen to me,

and told the girl at the desk, what was going on,in a loud voice.

she replied, sorry sir, I will take you in ten minutes,

I said " no you wont, because in 10 minutes I will be at the home pro store down the street" and walked out.

It was not only this individual incident that made me loose my cool, it was the accumulation of a Thousand of small irritations that made me loose it.

And I have to admit, I enjoyed it.

You think the employee cares whether or not the company lost a customer?

If you'd just calmly and coolly discussed the issue when it happened the first time you would have gotten what you wanted without wasting time and energy.

"Queing" as a social ritual that should apply equally to all just isn't important. Those who are higher in the pecking order deserve to jump ahead of the peons here, and ordinary foreigners aren't too high up the ladder.

Accept that that is the case here, it's just a cultural difference and nothing to get upset about. Try to deal effectively with reality as it presents itself, you're never going to actually change that aspect are you?

[smokie36]

This thread has reminded me of a lads trip a few of us took around Bangkok and Pattaya a few years ago.

The main character of the story is an Englishman, but for the purposes of my continued health and so you all understand his true nature i will refer to him as Begbie.

So we had had a great few days bar hopping around lower Sukhumvit when Begbie decides its time to get a minivan to Patters. In his wisdom its decided we will leave at 8am so we can catch the worst of the morning traffic. No one of course objects to this excellent plan and off we set.

I was a bit bleary eyed that morning as you might expect and found all the seats taken except for the one at the front...yes...next to Begbie.

As we pull out on to Sukhumvit he triumphantly pulls a bottle of Sangsom from his bag and offers it round....but strangely everyone else in the van has gone to sleep!

So we have a wee blether and polish off the Sangsom together all the way down the highway...finishing it just before our arranged breakfast stop.

Off we get and order various dishes before sitting down in the busy roadside restaurant.

Now the chairs in this place are the flimsy orange plastic variety...and having consumed more than half the bottle Begbie falls off his perch....there is silence around the table at this as we are all aware that he has gone puce with anger.

Begbie picks himself up and proceeds to dismantle the chair...punches and kicks rain down until it looks like a flatpack form Ikea that's gone wrong.

By now there is total silence in this busy restaurant and the owner comes wandering across. He surveys the scene sombrely....then to my surprise he walks to another table and picks up a large sturdy wooden chair and plonks it down before Begbie.

Both men nod and smile at each other....face restored between them.

The switch is flicked and normal service resumes throughout the restaurant.

Anyone care to explain what happened there then?

Edited June 24, 2012 by smokie36

[meand]

I would love to do that first one sometimes, although I never would of course. I have this belief here that people think they are the only one on earth when they are walking. Why is that? On a certain bts walkway there is about room for three people to be walking side by side, somehow people make it so you can't pass and walk slow. Why do they do that? Ha. I truly can laugh about it but I don't really get it. I have purpose when I walk and I just find it odd, it's just as easy to walk to one side.

Edited June 24, 2012 by meand

[JaiLai]

I have to agree with you there,

I was at global house waiting in the office to place my order, there were were a number of seats there, and people waited for their turn,no numbers just the seats. I sat there and waited, only to watch thais walk in , walk at the head of the line and be taken cared of, the first time I thought it was a honest mistake, the second time I got uncomfortable, the third time I blew my top, and it takes a lot for this to happen to me,

and told the girl at the desk, what was going on,in a loud voice.

she replied, sorry sir, I will take you in ten minutes,

I said " no you wont, because in 10 minutes I will be at the home pro store down the street" and walked out.

It was not only this individual incident that made me loose my cool, it was the accumulation of a Thousand of small irritations that made me loose it.

And I have to admit, I enjoyed it.

You think the employee cares whether or not the company lost a customer?

If you'd just calmly and coolly discussed the issue when it happened the first time you would have gotten what you wanted without wasting time and energy.

"Queing" as a social ritual that should apply equally to all just isn't important. Those who are higher in the pecking order deserve to jump ahead of the peons here, and ordinary foreigners aren't too high up the ladder.

Accept that that is the case here, it's just a cultural difference and nothing to get upset about. Try to deal effectively with reality as it presents itself, you're never going to actually change that aspect are you?

So what you're saying is let people walk all over you?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Anyone care to explain what happened there then?

Whatever the owner's nationality, very much to his credit (and that of his business sense) that he was able to exercise such self-restraint. However the fact is if there's one place where Thais are used to us farang popping a gasket at the drop of a hat it's Pattaya.

If the cost of replacing the chair wasn't added to the bill then call me flabbergasted.

[smokie36]

Anyone care to explain what happened there then?

Whatever the owner's nationality, very much to his credit (and that of his business sense) that he was able to exercise such self-restraint. However the fact is if there's one place where Thais are used to us farang popping a gasket at the drop of a hat it's Pattaya.

If the cost of replacing the chair wasn't added to the bill then call me flabbergasted.

I'm certain if it had been then Begbie would have let us all know about it.

Edit: Owner was Thai.

Edited June 24, 2012 by smokie36