aaacorp Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Ah, so now it wasn't even cross-fire, theThai Army deliberately targeted unarmed, Thai civilians and murdered them Well. yes, that is the discussion regarding snipers, they tend to not kill people in crossfire dam_n HRW....their statments are obviously wrongs (this is irony Weka) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaihome Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 The "live fire zones" werer declared on May 15th, the next day, not two days later. Does it occur to why they were declared? They were declared just becuase of incidents like these the day before in attempt to try and get people to stay away from that area. Rama IV on May 14th was full on urban warfare, I know, I live about 2 blocks over from where your video was taken. Anyone with any sense was inside, not standing out in street. Again, the HRW report: Beginning on May 14, Thai security forces faced demonstrators who were better organized and resorted more quickly to violent tactics. Groups of mainly young men now openly attacked the army at the barricades, especially in Bon Kai and Din Daeng, using flaming tires, petrol bombs, slingshot-fired metal balls, and powerful homemade explosives and other weapons. Most of the young men who joined the fight at the barricades seemed to have little in common with the UDD protesters at the camp. On numerous occasions, Black Shirt militants appeared at the barricades to join the fight, firing assault weapons and M79 grenade launchers at soldiers TH You accidentally missed these paragraphs that follow, I guess: Not using an entire post and taking it out of context is not nice, and likely a violation of forum rules here. I did not accidently miss those paragraphs, and if fact addressed them: That rules were not strictly followed under the combat conditions the Army found itself in from May 13th to the 19th is not disputed (though the Army’s continual denial to this day does them no service) . Nice try, now answer the question why do think the live fires zones were declared on the May 15th? Why did you lie and say that they were declared on the 16th? Making such a point that is was TWO days after your video, when was the next morning. TH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phiphidon Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Time to recall this wikileaks cable from the then American Ambassador, dated 11/25/2019 (which for normal people should be read as 11/25/2009). Various interesting items, here my pick, but follow the link for all of it: "Following Thaksin,s call-in, the actual cancellation by UDD leaders November 25 was little more than a formality." "in recent days we had actively sought out Thaksin,s family members (sister Yingluck and ex-wife Pojamon) and core red-shirt leaders to urge them to denounce the extreme rhetoric that had recently emerged, and to disavow the use of violence going forward." "Faced with mounting evidence that the Abhisit government was not on the verge of imminent collapse, as well as the fact that the funds required to bring protesters to Bangkok could be better used elsewhere, Thaksin apparently came to the conclusion that he would be better off scrapping the demonstration entirely." http://www.cablegate...d=09BANGKOK3009 What is the relevance of this with regard to the OP - "no order to open fire on the crowds?". It escapes me but I'm sure you had a reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCure Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 What needs to answered is who funded and organized the armed faction of the UDD? Can anyone at all answer this question? I question why Arisaman and Issan Rambo are holding hands? Could it be because scoundrels can only find love within their own kind? You forgot one picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) Time to recall this wikileaks cable from the then American Ambassador, dated 11/25/2019 (which for normal people should be read as 11/25/2009). Various interesting items, here my pick, but follow the link for all of it: "Following Thaksin,s call-in, the actual cancellation by UDD leaders November 25 was little more than a formality." "in recent days we had actively sought out Thaksin,s family members (sister Yingluck and ex-wife Pojamon) and core red-shirt leaders to urge them to denounce the extreme rhetoric that had recently emerged, and to disavow the use of violence going forward." "Faced with mounting evidence that the Abhisit government was not on the verge of imminent collapse, as well as the fact that the funds required to bring protesters to Bangkok could be better used elsewhere, Thaksin apparently came to the conclusion that he would be better off scrapping the demonstration entirely." http://www.cablegate...d=09BANGKOK3009 What is the relevance of this with regard to the OP - "no order to open fire on the crowds?". It escapes me but I'm sure you had a reason? Just some background information, my dear chap. By now the April - May 2010 period seems to have been covered in this thread Edited June 22, 2012 by rubl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phiphidon Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Nice try, now answer the question why do think the live fires zones were declared on the May 15th? Why did you lie and say that they were declared on the 16th? Making such a point that is was TWO days after your video, when was the next morning. TH Accusing me of lying is a bit strong but if that's how you see it, next time you make a mistake I will use the same language. I in all good faith followed the text on the link I provided, obviously mistakenly. It still doesn't alter the fact that 3 unarmed civilians were shot dead more than likely, according to leaked inquest reports, by the military when no live zones had been established (taking your live zone enactment date of the 15th May). As for your question, I have no idea why Live Fire Zones were established - they have never to my knowledge (and to the army author of a specialist paper on lessons to be learnt from the military approach which is now used as a text in military training schools) been used before in a crowd control situation and their legality is in question. They are certainly not part of the International Standards that Abhisit et al insisted they were following. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 As for your question, I have no idea why Live Fire Zones were established - they have never to my knowledge (and to the army author of a specialist paper on lessons to be learnt from the military approach which is now used as a text in military training schools) been used before in a crowd control situation and their legality is in question. They are certainly not part of the International Standards that Abhisit et al insisted they were following. International Standards do not really cover 'grenade lobbing peaceful protesters' as far as I know. The IDF regularly sets up 'live fire zones' for crowd control. Even BP does it "BP Designates 'Live Fire Zone' Along Gulf Shoreline; Vows to Shoot Whiney Protesters on Sight" http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s8i74878 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phiphidon Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Can anyone at all answer this question? I question why Arisaman and Issan Rambo are holding hands? Could it be because scoundrels can only find love within their own kind? You forgot one picture 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KireB Posted June 22, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted June 22, 2012 As for your question, I have no idea why Live Fire Zones were established - they have never to my knowledge (and to the army author of a specialist paper on lessons to be learnt from the military approach which is now used as a text in military training schools) been used before in a crowd control situation and their legality is in question. Armed and by the Dubai Don sponsored militias terrorizing Bangkok for weeks cannot be called 'a crowd'! That's an attempt to violently overthrow a government, so I doubt the legality of these zones are in question. Same logic applied with the no fly-zones after 9/11! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 A bit more on 'live fire zones' in Bangkok and the relative calm approach of the Army 2010-05-17 "Thailand's Red Shirts bring anarchy to Bangkok ... Gen Anupong Paochinda, the chief of the general staff, has resisted pressure to crush the demonstrations even though troops have used deadly force to contain protesters, leaving a death toll of at least 35 over the weekend. ... Thousands also gathered at Klong Toei at the fringes of the central district. A nearby grenade attack and firefight in early hours caused the evacuation of hundreds of Western tourists from the five star Dusit Thani hotel . Late last night a much greater catastrophe was averted with the failure of a prolonged effort by the Red Shirts to set fire to a stranded petrol tanker stranded in no-mans land between troops and the Klong Toei barricades ." http://www.telegraph...to-Bangkok.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I'm getting a wee bit annoyed with the old Thaksin or Abhisit pictures. Please desist or I may feel obliged to open my archive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdimension Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) You forgot one picture That's Newin being the prostitute that he is. It wouldn't be a surprise if he returned to Thaksin: Newin hopes for Thaksin's forgiveness Edited June 22, 2012 by hyperdimension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdimension Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) That's not even a "loving" embrace or affectionate hand-holding like in the other pictures, just a business handshake, and is therefore irrelevant to our discussion. Edited June 22, 2012 by hyperdimension 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCure Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 You forgot one picture That's Newin being the prostitute that he is. It wouldn't be a surprise if he returned to Thaksin: Newin hopes for Thaksin's forgiveness I have more respect for a prostitute than for an assassin . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdimension Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I have more respect for a prostitute than for an assassin . Who did he assassinate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koosdeboer Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 You forgot one picture That's Newin being the prostitute that he is. It wouldn't be a surprise if he returned to Thaksin: Newin hopes for Thaksin's forgiveness I have more respect for a prostitute than for an assassin . You crossed the line, is your name jatuporn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCure Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I have more respect for a prostitute than for an assassin . Who did he assassinate? At least 80 people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phiphidon Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 That's not even a "loving" embrace or affectionate hand-holding like in the other pictures, just a business handshake, and is therefore irrelevant to our discussion. None of the images were relevant - I just thought I'd get my 10 bahts worth in........................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I question why Arisaman and Issan Rambo are holding hands? It's so they don't nick each others watches. That could explain it. I always wondered what Thaksin thought about this pic of Arisaman with his married sister??? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phiphidon Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I question why Arisaman and Issan Rambo are holding hands? It's so they don't nick each others watches. That could explain it. I always wondered what Thaksin thought about this pic of Arisaman with his married sister??? . At least you know she's married now buchholz, remember when you were alluding that she was a lesbian ("Wonder why she never married") and that mingkwan was gay and then you removed your post about Yingluck? Sometimes I think you should be posting on a thai showbiz gossip forum than on a political one. You'd probably be more believable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phiphidon Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 As for your question, I have no idea why Live Fire Zones were established - they have never to my knowledge (and to the army author of a specialist paper on lessons to be learnt from the military approach which is now used as a text in military training schools) been used before in a crowd control situation and their legality is in question. They are certainly not part of the International Standards that Abhisit et al insisted they were following. International Standards do not really cover 'grenade lobbing peaceful protesters' as far as I know. The IDF regularly sets up 'live fire zones' for crowd control. Even BP does it "BP Designates 'Live Fire Zone' Along Gulf Shoreline; Vows to Shoot Whiney Protesters on Sight" http://www.thespoof....adline=s8i74878 The peaceful protesters weren't the ones lobbing grenades as far as I recall. And quoting the IDF as a standard for anything is a joke - they are literally a law unto themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCure Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Buchlozz is a no hitter when it comes to human rights . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 As for your question, I have no idea why Live Fire Zones were established - they have never to my knowledge (and to the army author of a specialist paper on lessons to be learnt from the military approach which is now used as a text in military training schools) been used before in a crowd control situation and their legality is in question. They are certainly not part of the International Standards that Abhisit et al insisted they were following. International Standards do not really cover 'grenade lobbing peaceful protesters' as far as I know. The IDF regularly sets up 'live fire zones' for crowd control. Even BP does it "BP Designates 'Live Fire Zone' Along Gulf Shoreline; Vows to Shoot Whiney Protesters on Sight" http://www.thespoof....adline=s8i74878 The peaceful protesters weren't the ones lobbing grenades as far as I recall. And quoting the IDF as a standard for anything is a joke - they are literally a law unto themselves. May I correct my statement to "grenade lobbing militants hiding within amassed cannon fodder peaceful protesters'? BTW by now I'm not sure which was more tongue-in-cheek, the reference to the IDF or to BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 At least you know she's married now buchholz, remember when you were alluding that she was a lesbian ("Wonder why she never married") and that mingkwan was gay and then you removed your post about Yingluck? Sometimes I think you should be posting on a thai showbiz gossip forum than on a political one. You'd probably be more believable. K. Mingkwan is a 'delicate' gentleman who has to endure some nasty rumours, similar to k. Prem. I don't know and frankly I don't care, their affairs not mine. As for Ms. Yingluck, she's not married, she is cohabitating, she has a common-law husband as far as I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) Could it be because scoundrels can only find love within their own kind? Caption on the right - "Mmmm Sorry mate, but you just don't know whats coming, but if they can hit just about here, that should get my urban battle and my return to power" Edited June 22, 2012 by GentlemanJim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdimension Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I have more respect for a prostitute than for an assassin . Who did he assassinate? At least 80 people Please provide proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdimension Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) As for Ms. Yingluck, she's not married, she is cohabitating, she has a common-law husband as far as I know That is correct. From what I've read in the Marriage forum here, a "common-law" marriage is not legally recognized in Thailand. Edited June 22, 2012 by hyperdimension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdimension Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) Who did he assassinate? At least 80 people Actually, Abhisit was just a jockey: "In horse racing they have the stable and the owner of the stable owns the horse. The jockey comes and rides the horse during the race, but the jockey does not own the horse. It’s very easy [to comprehend]" Source: Prem Tinsulanonda In his special lecture to some 950 cadets of the Chulachomklao Royal Military Academy at Khao Cha-ngoke, Nakhon Nayok province, on July 14, Gen Prem touched on the issue of where the loyalty of military officers should lay. He likened the government to a jockey and soldiers to horses, saying jockeys come and go, but the owner of the horses stays the same. Source: General Prem Tinsulanonda News Would you agree? Where would you place ultimate blame for the deaths? With a mere jockey? Edited June 22, 2012 by hyperdimension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I have more respect for a prostitute than for an assassin . Who did he assassinate? At least 80 people Does that mean your hero assassinated 2,500 people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdimension Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 None of the images were relevant - I just thought I'd get my 10 bahts worth in........................... They were relevant to the discussion about love amongst scoundrels. Couldn't you have at least posted a picture of Abhisit embracing a despot or terrorist? Or is the problem that you couldn't find one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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