Slain Thai Nurse's Mum To Talk To ICC Lawyer: The Hague

[Moruya]

ICC is not going to take this case. Ban Ki-Moon came to Thailand shortly after the crackdown in 2010 and told everybody that he believed that this issue must be solved among Thais. No party should try to involve the international community.

Recently Kofi Annan came to Thailand and said that this issue was an internal issue for Thailand. According to him KEY players in the conflict should take a step back..

Since Thida and Weng claim to represent all Thai people, I wonder if they are also going to represent the families who lost innocent loved ones during the crackdown on drugs, once they are in Holland? Are they also representing the killed THAI soldiers' families?

And meanwhile somewhere in the middle east, one Thai fugitive ex-leader keeps on digging a whole untill one day it's large and deep enough for him and his cronies to "retire" in.

The UN is not my father? It really doesn't matter what Ban Ki Moon or Kofi Annan says - if the ICC accept there is a case to be heard after investigation (currently ongoing) they will accept it. If not, they won't.

Structure of the Court

The Court is an independent institution . The Court is not part of the United Nations, but it maintains a cooperative relationship with the U.N

http://www.icc-cpi.i...e of the Court/

For a few dictators it doesn't matter what the UN says. For most civilized people it does.

Who called the UN to mediate in 2010 and 2012?. Looks like the little boy in hiding is missing his father.

Give it another spin PPD. Come on!!

If the ICC gets involved then there would be a huge case for having them subsequently called in for the war on drugs, tak bai, krue se, the police killing and maiming yellow shirts etc.

[phiphidon]

If the ICC gets involved then there would be a huge case for having them subsequently called in for the war on drugs, tak bai, krue se, the police killing and maiming yellow shirts etc.

If someone has a case to be considered and it's in the ICCs jurisdiction I'm sure they're welcome to bring it to the attention of the ICC. You may wonder why no one has done so up to this point, but you're going off topic.

Edited June 26, 2012 by phiphidon

[Moruya]

If the ICC gets involved then there would be a huge case for having them subsequently called in for the war on drugs, tak bai, krue se, the police killing and maiming yellow shirts etc.

If someone has a case to be considered and it's in the ICCs jurisdiction I'm sure they're welcome to bring it to the attention of the ICC. You may wonder why no one has done so up to this point, but you're going off topic.

Not in the least. Just looking at the possible implications further down the line.

[whybother]

Great thinking,your daughter got killed,u know by who,government and court refuse to work on the case,then u would let it go?Who is Abisit?A guy nominated to be Pm by untouchables and army,half of the country did not like him to be PM,then why they should listen?

"As to the mother of the nurse, it seems that the current government are abandoning her, and the families of others killed, in their quest to get Thaksin back with his crimes whitewashed."

I'll say again. There is an ongoing inquest into Nurse Kates death and others.

Maybe you should have pointed that out to Punisher then.

[bigbamboo]

This is politicizing it for sure.

Very sad for the victim and she should never have died,

but this is a political action against the last government,

this is not a finding of fact of who actual commited the act.

With the plaintifs friends as the government now, and more than a year of

investigation in country, how can the ICC prosector have anything more than

the local prosecutors have? This is nothing but trying to sling blame on the Dems

to permanently remove opposition to Thaksin's political aims.

All springing from the Reds/PTP efforts to MAKE this horrible situation come about.

Hypocrisy of the highest order.

If they had accepted Abhisit's offer of early elections,no deaths would have occured,

but that didn't fit the reasons to create the red occupationof Bangkok,

and push it untill the army had no choice but remove them

.

If the ICC sees past the innuendo, they will see who and why this all happened,

and it was not the army or the Dem Gov. that put all this into motion,

and set the stage for this sad and wasteful death.

Coupled with that we have the other side of the coin.

What is being done to prosecute the Somchai Wongsawat (Thaksin's brother in law) governemnt for killing and maiming the PAD supporters? That happened way before the Red Shirt protests and should be ahead in the queue.

Then it could be those guilty of killing innocent people during the war on drugs. The Hague could be over run with Thais and their politically backed lawyers claiming politicians on all sides are government licensed murderers.

This will do nothing for the kingdom's image and give palpitations to those compiling TAT's all important tourist numbers.

Edited June 26, 2012 by bigbamboo

[animatic]

I can't help thinking along the lines that there are no Thai people capable of governing the country and, like quarrelsome children, they run to outside bodies such as the ICC and the IMF to sort their problems out for them.

Such is the moral morass that this country is in that Judas would feel quite at home here.

Well I think there are people well and truly capable to run the country,

but those people are smart enough to NOT ENTER POLITICS.

They know it is a slippery slope into the morass of fecal sludge,

and the supposed elevation in status is really a chimera.

[animatic]

Since when did "91 Reds" die?

They didn't, that is the total number of dead for the whole time.

Which includes those killed by the Reds and Men in Black.

And possible a simple murderer or two who took advantage of the chaos to remove personal adversaries.

Well I suggest you take it up with the The Nation whose erroneous headline it is. Sunnai is quoted

Pheu Thai MP Sunai Julponsathorn said Monday he will petition the International Criminal Court ICC at the Hague on December 9 to take up the crime against humanity case against the 91 who were killed during the military crackdown on red shirts in April and May last year.

http://www.nationmul...1-30170812.html

Nothing whatsoever about 91 Reds - That is the Nations "version" of what he said.

Well it's just as ridiculous to

"take up the crime against humanity case against the 91 who were killed"

Oh sorry you died, we must take you to court over it.

[Moruya]

This is politicizing it for sure.

Very sad for the victim and she should never have died,

but this is a political action against the last government,

this is not a finding of fact of who actual commited the act.

With the plaintifs friends as the government now, and more than a year of

investigation in country, how can the ICC prosector have anything more than

the local prosecutors have? This is nothing but trying to sling blame on the Dems

to permanently remove opposition to Thaksin's political aims.

All springing from the Reds/PTP efforts to MAKE this horrible situation come about.

Hypocrisy of the highest order.

If they had accepted Abhisit's offer of early elections,no deaths would have occured,

but that didn't fit the reasons to create the red occupationof Bangkok,

and push it untill the army had no choice but remove them

.

If the ICC sees past the innuendo, they will see who and why this all happened,

and it was not the army or the Dem Gov. that put all this into motion,

and set the stage for this sad and wasteful death.

Coupled with that we have the other side of the coin.

What is being done to prosecute the Somchai Wongsawat (Thaksin's brother in law) governemnt for killing and maiming the PAD supporters? That happened way before the Red Shirt protests and should be ahead in the queue.

Then it could be those guilty of killing innocent people during the war on drugs. The Hague could be over run with Thais and their politically backed lawyers claiming politicians on all sides are government licensed murderers.

This will do nothing for the kingdom's image and give palpitations to those compiling TAT's all important tourist numbers.

That could be fun. Imagine the Red Shirts all running off there en masse to protest at the court. They'd be in for a short, sharp shock!

[phiphidon]

Well it's just as ridiculous to

"take up the crime against humanity case against the 91 who were killed"

Oh sorry you died, we must take you to court over it.

Once again, blame the Nations poor journalism not Sunai. Oh No, you have to pretend that Sunai made such a ridiculous statement so that you can comment on it negatively

[jerrysteve]

I wish this woman all the luck in the world. I do not believe that she will obtain justice from any Thai court, but perhaps The Hague will be

the Saving Grace.

Years ago in the U.S.A. a similar situation occured during a Vietnam war protest at Kent State University in which orders were given to the Army National to fire on the protestors; students died during that horrible time.

There was no prosecution of any military personnel after that occured either and absolutely no one was held accountable;

even in the U.S.A. which touts itself as a leader in Human Rights.

[phiphidon]

Great thinking,your daughter got killed,u know by who,government and court refuse to work on the case,then u would let it go?Who is Abisit?A guy nominated to be Pm by untouchables and army,half of the country did not like him to be PM,then why they should listen?

"As to the mother of the nurse, it seems that the current government are abandoning her, and the families of others killed, in their quest to get Thaksin back with his crimes whitewashed."

I'll say again. There is an ongoing inquest into Nurse Kates death and others.

Maybe you should have pointed that out to Punisher then.

I believe the government he was referring to was the democrat government, whereas you referred to the current government if I am correct.

[whybother]

I believe the government he was referring to was the democrat government, whereas you referred to the current government if I am correct.

Given that the current government is trying to give amnesty to everyone, I believe it's the current government that are abandoning her.

[phiphidon]

I believe the government he was referring to was the democrat government, whereas you referred to the current government if I am correct.

Given that the current government is trying to give amnesty to everyone, I believe it's the current government that are abandoning her.

Well when the the current government gives amnesty to everyone come back and tell me.

Meanwhile the inquest is going on and if they can get some useful intelligent witness accounts from the army other than "we didn't shoot anybody at the wat because there were no soldiers on the tracks above and it was the men in black who dressed in camouflage and those fetching pink identifying neckerchiefs and stole our guns to shoot the people in the wat" they might come up with a conclusion.

Which is nearer than the abhisit government ever got (or wanted to for that matter).

[Moruya]

I believe the government he was referring to was the democrat government, whereas you referred to the current government if I am correct.

Given that the current government is trying to give amnesty to everyone, I believe it's the current government that are abandoning her.

Well when the the current government gives amnesty to everyone come back and tell me.

Meanwhile the inquest is going on and if they can get some useful intelligent witness accounts from the army other than "we didn't shoot anybody at the wat because there were no soldiers on the tracks above and it was the men in black who dressed in camouflage and those fetching pink identifying neckerchiefs and stole our guns to shoot the people in the wat" they might come up with a conclusion.

Which is nearer than the abhisit government ever got (or wanted to for that matter).

well here's hoping that there is some clear evidence and the culprits can be identified.

[animatic]

Yes, actual evidence and not simply ideological wishful thinking and prejudicial posturing.

[rubl]

Karom said an amnesty in Thailand or a Reconciliation Bill was unlikely to help the complainants.

Yeah for red democracy!

The very fact that the current government is considering an amnesty suggests that the Thai executive and legal branch functions properly. That would be enough reason for the ICC to drop investigating the case brought to them for consideration. As the ICC doesn't answer requests for information on not-yet-decided or even dropped cases, how do we know that the case is still under consideration with the ICC?

[phiphidon]

Karom said an amnesty in Thailand or a Reconciliation Bill was unlikely to help the complainants.

Yeah for red democracy!

The very fact that the current government is considering an amnesty suggests that the Thai executive and legal branch functions properly. That would be enough reason for the ICC to drop investigating the case brought to them for consideration. As the ICC doesn't answer requests for information on not-yet-decided or even dropped cases, how do we know that the case is still under consideration with the ICC?

If the case was not under consideration by the ICC there would seem little point for Nurse Kates mother to go all the way to the Hague to give evidence to a prosecutor, do you not think? They cannot accept a case until they have investigated it. This deposition is part of that process.

As far as your comment about the function of the legal branch running properly is concerned I would personally say that was open to interpretation in view of the CC's recent activities.

[ianf]

I hope she has found peace, and my condolences once again to her family.

Who is guilty of causing her and many others' deaths? It is the man who funded and instigated the armed uprising, and ordered his followers to "burn all of Bangkok to the ground". If they had tried to follow his direct orders thousands would have died.

He is in Dubai, and we know he is guilty of all 90+ deaths because he paid for the armed mob to march on Bangkok and he ordered them to "kill the elites" and "burn Bangkok to the ground" and he did so on television and big-screen stage shows, and his redmob leaders gave the speeches including those lines quoted above. How this can not be seen as incitement to mass-murder, is one of the strangest legal mysteries I have ever seen. How he can not be responsible for all deaths caused by his armed attempt at city-wide arson, is a genuine question.

When DEA arrest street-level drug dealers, they are always after the top-man, the place where the money-trail leads and the person who is guilty of organising the drug supply network and hiring the street dealers. Organised violent crime as pushed by Thaksin and the redmob 2010 is no different, the man at the top is guilty of the crimes of the whole network.

How can Thaksin not be entirely guilty of all those 90+ deaths, if he had not funded and ordered the arson and murder group, nobody would have died.

This is so true but how can this message escape the confines of a forum used in the main by farangs and not the red shirt masses? It is now said that the bullets causing the deaths in this area were ones used by the Thai Military but when hundreds of weapons and rounds of ammunition was stolen by the reds is the truth so cut and dried? And off course the reds are pumping this for all it's worth making sure the blame squarely sits with Abhisit. But these people have demonstrably lied so much how can you believe anything they claim?

Edited June 26, 2012 by ianf

[hellodolly]

Karom said an amnesty in Thailand or a Reconciliation Bill was unlikely to help the complainants.

Yeah for red democracy!

The very fact that the current government is considering an amnesty suggests that the Thai executive and legal branch functions properly. That would be enough reason for the ICC to drop investigating the case brought to them for consideration. As the ICC doesn't answer requests for information on not-yet-decided or even dropped cases, how do we know that the case is still under consideration with the ICC?

If the case was not under consideration by the ICC there would seem little point for Nurse Kates mother to go all the way to the Hague to give evidence to a prosecutor, do you not think? They cannot accept a case until they have investigated it. This deposition is part of that process.

As far as your comment about the function of the legal branch running properly is concerned I would personally say that was open to interpretation in view of the CC's recent activities.

" the function of the legal branch running properly is concerned I would personally say that was open to interpretation in view of the Government in power.

[rubl]

Karom said an amnesty in Thailand or a Reconciliation Bill was unlikely to help the complainants.

Yeah for red democracy!

The very fact that the current government is considering an amnesty suggests that the Thai executive and legal branch functions properly. That would be enough reason for the ICC to drop investigating the case brought to them for consideration. As the ICC doesn't answer requests for information on not-yet-decided or even dropped cases, how do we know that the case is still under consideration with the ICC?

If the case was not under consideration by the ICC there would seem little point for Nurse Kates mother to go all the way to the Hague to give evidence to a prosecutor, do you not think? They cannot accept a case until they have investigated it. This deposition is part of that process.

As far as your comment about the function of the legal branch running properly is concerned I would personally say that was open to interpretation in view of the CC's recent activities.

My dear chap, I know you like to believe all that is told you, especially when coming from lawyers, but I would like to ask you to consider the following.

The ICC doesn't comment on cases under consideration nor on cases dropped. I mailed them more then a year ago and got a polite reply saying that plus some 'please read these webpages'. Pheu Thai MP Sunai went from stating 'demand' to 'polite visit' early December 2011. He was in the Netherlands (I'm willing to believe), but no proof he actually spoke with a judge or other representative of the ICC at their offices. Robert A. has informed the public that A&P has filed additional information two times and the ICC is taking the case serious and under consideration. Now we have red-shirt lawyer Karup saying he's going to the Netherlands with Phayao Akkahad to give a statement to an ICC prosecuter at the ICC offices. Proof coming soon I guess.

In the mean time we have the OP with

Karom said he and Phayao would testify how "Thai jurisdiction" made if difficult to convict former deputy premier Suthep Thaugsuban, who was in charge of the dispersal, and then-PM Abhisit Vejjajiva.

Karom said an amnesty in Thailand or a Reconciliation Bill was unlikely to help the complainants. Phayao, meanwhile, said she did not care about the amnesty law. She believed in the international legal process and would fight, as her daughter should not have been killed.

As Dept. PM Pol. Captain Chalerm already said last year, amnesty for all except Abhisit and Suthep of course.

Edited June 26, 2012 by rubl

[rubl]

From Thairath 2012-05-22

On K. Yongyuth’s box: TRCT. In the box bags of money the government is giving to victims of political violence provided they agree not to pursue cases against the government or military.

On the card the lady holds: Compensation for victims of dissolving the protest.

On the prison: UDD and political prisoners

Right mouse: Release the political victims

Main heading: People wait to be compensated for their freedom.

As far as I understand Thai, excuses for mistakes which surely will be present

[nurofiend]

All Abhisit's and Suthep's fault right. There's CLEAR evidence that the Red Shirt leaders incited violence and called for people to arm themselves and burn the city. Nope, no blame on them. People being injured from RPG attacks and crossfire but not one single blame on those Red Shirt eh? Go to hell, greedy lady, keep being a tool.

who are you telling to go to hell?

the mother of the slain nurse???

i've struggled to read through this thread with its posts that read like indoctrinated religious ramblings, but this one wins the prize for worst post of the the thread.

edit: i guess you were talking about thida, who doesn't really come in to the article at all.

wasn't very clear who were on about...but my mistake

guess i win the prize for worst post

(actually don't think that's possible in this thread!)

Edited June 26, 2012 by nurofiend

[Skywalker69]

well the how about army who make megamuhu money in the south and far north,or how about the other 2 parties?All 3 hv no interest in giving there power away,like I said thailand could move on if all those parties who care only about their power and money would go away,and let thailand have a new start with new government,no red no yellows

In addition to the "if only" daydreaming that the redmob apologists always engage in as a factory default-setting, what happened in the past is not relevant to 2010.

In 2010 we had a stable government under Abhisit who had instituted policy bills for infrastructure development, helping the rural poor and fighting corruption. The actions of Thaksin in 2010 were against a non-tyrannical regime who were working to improve the lives of the rural poor.

So you must take the context of the uprising. Thaksin funded and encouraged in 2010, arson and murder in the capital city to overthrow a government who had actually created long-term infrastructure improvement projects for poor people. That same government allowed the redmob protests and offered early elections.

Can you please explain how arson and murder speeches by the redmob improved the lives of normal Thais, or were somehow an improvement on the policies of the Abhisit government. It was an entirely unneccesary assault on Bangkok by Thaksin in 2010, they could have waited for elections and voted Abhisit out and nobody would have died. Thaksin chose to not wait for elections, or to even accept the early elections offered, he chose murder and arson and I challenge you to say his actions were warranted in 2010.

Yeah they did a great job,that why they lost the election in 2011 265-159 seats

Do you think that Yingluck and PTP has done a great job so far?

[scorecard]

Karom said an amnesty in Thailand or a Reconciliation Bill was unlikely to help the complainants.

Yeah for red democracy!

The very fact that the current government is considering an amnesty suggests that the Thai executive and legal branch functions properly. That would be enough reason for the ICC to drop investigating the case brought to them for consideration. As the ICC doesn't answer requests for information on not-yet-decided or even dropped cases, how do we know that the case is still under consideration with the ICC?

If the case was not under consideration by the ICC there would seem little point for Nurse Kates mother to go all the way to the Hague to give evidence to a prosecutor, do you not think? They cannot accept a case until they have investigated it. This deposition is part of that process.

As far as your comment about the function of the legal branch running properly is concerned I would personally say that was open to interpretation in view of the CC's recent activities.

There's also the strong possibility that this 'trip' has been prompted and executed by people who have no clue as to the processes involved here,or the remit of the said court, etc., and the grieving mother (with all respect to her) is being led into this, all for red grandstanding.

[animatic]

All Abhisit's and Suthep's fault right. There's CLEAR evidence that the Red Shirt leaders incited violence and called for people to arm themselves and burn the city. Nope, no blame on them. People being injured from RPG attacks and crossfire but not one single blame on those Red Shirt eh? Go to hell, greedy lady, keep being a tool.

who are you telling to go to hell?

the mother of the slain nurse???

i've struggled to read through this thread with its posts that read like indoctrinated religious ramblings, but this one wins the prize for worst post of the the thread.

edit: i guess you were talking about thida, who doesn't really come in to the article at all.

wasn't very clear who were on about...but my mistake

guess i win the prize for worst post

(actually don't think that's possible in this thread!)

No, he wasn't talking about Thida.

Struggle on.

[rubl]

2012-06-26: The mother of a volunteer paramedic who died at Wat Pathum Wanaram during the political turmoil in 2010 will give a statement to a prosecutor today at the International Criminal Court in The Hague, lawyer Karom Poltaklang said yesterday.

Karom spoke at Suvarnabhumi Airport before Phayao Akkahad - mother of volunteer medic Kamonkade - and her son, departed for The Hague in the Netherlands.

So on the 25th lawyer Karun said to go to talk with the ICC, the talk was supposed to be on the 26th. Now on 27th no success story (yet). I'm I too impatient ?

[nurofiend]

All Abhisit's and Suthep's fault right. There's CLEAR evidence that the Red Shirt leaders incited violence and called for people to arm themselves and burn the city. Nope, no blame on them. People being injured from RPG attacks and crossfire but not one single blame on those Red Shirt eh? Go to hell, greedy lady, keep being a tool.

who are you telling to go to hell?

the mother of the slain nurse???

i've struggled to read through this thread with its posts that read like indoctrinated religious ramblings, but this one wins the prize for worst post of the the thread.

edit: i guess you were talking about thida, who doesn't really come in to the article at all.

wasn't very clear who were on about...but my mistake

guess i win the prize for worst post

(actually don't think that's possible in this thread!)

No, he wasn't talking about Thida.

Struggle on.

so since there's only two women mentioned in the article he had to be talking about the mother of the slain nurse, saying she should go to hell and calling her a tool.

and you feel obliged to come to his defence....

i think you and your buddy are the ones that need to struggle on because my conscience is clear on this one.

what a disgusting comment to make about a mother of a young nurse who was murdered.

[Moruya]

2012-06-26: The mother of a volunteer paramedic who died at Wat Pathum Wanaram during the political turmoil in 2010 will give a statement to a prosecutor today at the International Criminal Court in The Hague, lawyer Karom Poltaklang said yesterday.

Karom spoke at Suvarnabhumi Airport before Phayao Akkahad - mother of volunteer medic Kamonkade - and her son, departed for The Hague in the Netherlands.

So on the 25th lawyer Karun said to go to talk with the ICC, the talk was supposed to be on the 26th. Now on 27th no success story (yet). I'm I too impatient ?

Is that what Karun is doing nowadays?

He'll probably kick a few judges

[Buchholz]

2012-06-26: The mother of a volunteer paramedic who died at Wat Pathum Wanaram during the political turmoil in 2010 will give a statement to a prosecutor today at the International Criminal Court in The Hague, lawyer Karom Poltaklang said yesterday.

Karom spoke at Suvarnabhumi Airport before Phayao Akkahad - mother of volunteer medic Kamonkade - and her son, departed for The Hague in the Netherlands.

So on the 25th lawyer Karun said to go to talk with the ICC, the talk was supposed to be on the 26th. Now on 27th no success story (yet). I'm I too impatient ?

Is that what Karun is doing nowadays?

He'll probably kick a few judges

Red Shirt Lawyer = Karom

Red Shirt Leader/PTP MP = Karun

.

[Moruya]

2012-06-26: The mother of a volunteer paramedic who died at Wat Pathum Wanaram during the political turmoil in 2010 will give a statement to a prosecutor today at the International Criminal Court in The Hague, lawyer Karom Poltaklang said yesterday.

Karom spoke at Suvarnabhumi Airport before Phayao Akkahad - mother of volunteer medic Kamonkade - and her son, departed for The Hague in the Netherlands.

So on the 25th lawyer Karun said to go to talk with the ICC, the talk was supposed to be on the 26th. Now on 27th no success story (yet). I'm I too impatient ?

Is that what Karun is doing nowadays?

He'll probably kick a few judges

Red Shirt Lawyer = Karom

Red Shirt Leader/PTP MP = Karun

.

And pillars of society both