Subject: จักร Is Jak Or Jak Gra

[nakriian]

Subject: จักร is jak or jak gra

If you say the word จักร for wheel as a stand-a-lone word, do you say (1)jak or (2)jak gra? ́(getting conflicting information using thai-language.com's online dictioanry).

Also, when you use it in combination with other words, like motorcyle for example จักรยานยนต์, is it (1)jak yaan yohn or (2)jak gra yaan yohn?

[TommoPhysicist]

wheel ....... jàk

Bicycle ........ jàk-grà-yaan (often pronounced as jak-ka-yaan)

Motorcycle ......rót-jàk-grà-yaan yon

Raw rua is often not pronounced at all when combined with some another consonants (varies by region).

A letter used twice (like gaw gai in it's ending sound, in this case 'K', often lends it's ending sound to it's new position as starting sound, in this case 'K' 'K', so JaK Ka yaan, not JaK GRa Yaan)

Edited June 26, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[bytebuster]

The word จักร is borrowed from Sanskrit चक्र [cakra] ("wheel").

Two readings are caused by the spelling rules of contemporary Thai. In particular, modern Thai tends to make the final syllable of a word to be closed unlike Sanskrit where most of syllables are open.

You may find the same pattern in Many Pali/Sanskrit words, especially the proper nouns: ราชเทวี [râːt - tɕʰáʔ - tʰeː - wiː] versus โคราช [kʰoː - râːt]

[nakriian]

Okay, so if you are saying จักร by itself you just pronounce it like จัก ̣̣(เสียงเอก) and the ร is a silent final consonant.

And if you are saying จักร as part of a combination of words, you pronounce it as จัก-กร ̣(jak gra) (or jak ka depending on region)

[nakriian]

The word จักร is borrowed from Sanskrit चक्र [cakra] ("wheel").

bytebuster, can you give me the link to the site where you got the Sanskrit info for จักร.

[bytebuster]

bytebuster, can you give me the link to the site where you got the Sanskrit info for จักร.

Here is a brief and incomplete dictionary however it appears very useful for common words.

Here is a nice Sanskrit<->English dictionary.

Also, Google Translate appears to be useful. Use Hindi, but keep in mind that modern language may vary from original Sanskrit pronunciation and meaning.

Okay, so if you are saying จักร by itself you just pronounce it like จัก ̣̣(เสียงเอก) and the ร is a silent final consonant.

And if you are saying จักร as part of a combination of words, you pronounce it as จัก-กร ̣(jak gra) (or jak ka depending on region)

No, not exactly. Consider ดาราจักร [daː - raː - tɕàk], อาณาจักร [aː - naː - tɕàk], จตุจักร [tɕà - tù - tɕàk]. They are all polysyllabic.

Consonant reduplication may only occur in polysyllabic words, except the last syllable of them. Otherwise the word is read according common Thai spelling rules.

When I was struggling with transcription algorithms, I came up with very this approach.

[DigitalDiva02]

Nakriian - Hi, just reading the threads and to say its not always that simple. Example จักรเย็บผ้า (sewing machine) - pronounced jak yep paᠡnd not jak ka yep paᮠ

Edited June 29, 2012 by DigitalDiva02

[Richard W]

Example จักรเย็บผ้า (sewing machine) - pronounced jak yep paᠡnd not jak ka yep paᮠ

In this case, the compounding is done by Thai rules - the spelling clearly shows that เย็บ is not a Pali/Sanskrit word, and so the consonant doubling is highly unlikely. One could even claim that จักรเย็บผ้า is a phrase and not a word, though it might be possible to defeat that claim.

[Mole]

What about this then?

จักรกล

[Mole]

Would then เครื่องจักรกล be a phrase or word?

[Richard W]

Would then เครื่องจักรกล be a phrase or word?

You don't find เครื่องจักรกล or จักรกล in the Royal Institute Dictionary, so they must be phrases of 3 and 2 words!

More seriously, I am sure เครื่องจักรกล is a phrase, while I don't have a strong enough feeling make a non-circular argument for จักรกล being a phrase.

[Mole]

OK

Edited July 3, 2012 by Mole