Dad Suggests Coverup In Daughters' Thailand Deaths

[dingdang]

the post was removed, but someone posted a list of tourist/expat "death causes" earlier...

there were MANY heart attacks...

if a room is full of vomit, it might be difficult to rule that?

surely, the doctor issuing the death certificate at the scene has to state, whether there was anything "not normal" in the room or not...(?)

Edited June 27, 2012 by dingdang

[dingdang]

it could look like...

- they were found dead much earlier

- an immediate drug test showed negative, nothing found in the room either

- a "heart attack" was prepared...

[bangkokheat]

It seems odd to me that the results of the thai autopsy hasnt come out considering the tourism factor unless....they have buried their collective heads in the sand and hoping/waiting for this to all blow over.....or they are waiting in hope that the canadian autopsy findings wont damage tourism....or perhaps it was at the request of the canadian government.

[Markaew]

It's getting to a point that the Thai Tourism claims of Thailand being a a family destination has gone from rediculous to bizzare. Who in their right mind would bring their family here after all the foreigner deaths? It's becoming a "come at your own risk" destination. Always has been but risk levels seem to be increasing.

[indyuk]

Thai police are looking for two Portuguese men who have left the country??

How did the Thai police reach this conclusion about the nationality?? One would presume it was through passports - which have a name, so why not give the Canadian police and the family the names so the suspects can be questioned and either arrested or discounted from the inquiry? It seems as so often is the case that the authorities create an unprovable scenario and then walk away.

Despite what is says on the birth certificates of all Thai police men I am convinced they all have the maturity and professionalism of a 14 year old boy.

The Thai police can easily trace the Portuguese man or men through their immigration department. It is not Rocket Science, just type in nationality and the week they are alleged to have left the country, where they stayed and for how long and the software will generate a very short list of names, very likely just one of two.

The most likely scenario is that the Portuguese factor is 'smoke'. Since the likely MO based on information already in the public domain is obvious to the point of two possibilities.

The police will know the probable MO and will have passed the information up the political ladder during the hiatus of time from initial discovery to reported discovery. Subsequently they would have been advised how too act and report from then on.

It is useful to remember that poisoning is a the top of the list in Thai cculture if you want to end a life be it your own or someone's that is in your way.

[Thaddeus]

It seems odd to me that the results of the thai autopsy hasnt come out considering the tourism factor unless....they have buried their collective heads in the sand and hoping/waiting for this to all blow over.....or they are waiting in hope that the canadian autopsy findings wont damage tourism....or perhaps it was at the request of the canadian government.

They said last week that it would take two weeks, so nothing strange, yet.

[Markaew]

All these amateur sleuths on here, that according to them, the case is cut and dry. I’m honestly expecting Miss Marple and Sherlock Holmes to make a post at any moment with their analysis.

I wonder how many of you Thailand bashers actually live in Thailand? And if you do, why are you here?

The point is that we simply will not know until the concluding autopsy results are released. At this stage the possibilities for causes of death of these sisters is limitless. For myself, I really have no idea. Only time will tell.

Just look at the frequency that these events happen. Surely you can begin to see a trend. You become a basher when you see the repetition. These are not accidents and waiting for the "official results" doesn't dismiss what happens here as routine.

[Ferangled]

And don't forget everybody. Live is cheap in Thailand. It is not valued and treasured be it a Thai or Farang life. They just don't care. I've been to funerals here where nobody cries except maybe the wife and kids. For everybody else it's tea and crumpets time (or cha and kanom).

What gross generalisations and strange conclusions to draw from your experience of funerals here. I've been to a fair few funerals in different countries where nobody was crying, doesn't mean people weren't upset or that they didn't value life.

I've also been to a fair few wakes where people were visibly enjoying themselves and giving the deceased a proper send off, focusing on life and humorous memories of the deceased alive rather than revelling in grief over their death. In my experience dealing with death is very personal and varies from person to person.

When the head of my wife's family died, a very elderly, much loved Thai man with a vast family network, his family members travelled from far and wide from various countries and different provinces to pay their respects. It was quite obvious that his passing had a profound effect on the family and evidently he was much loved and valued.

[Markaew]

And don't forget everybody. Live is cheap in Thailand. It is not valued and treasured be it a Thai or Farang life. They just don't care. I've been to funerals here where nobody cries except maybe the wife and kids. For everybody else it's tea and crumpets time (or cha and kanom).

What gross generalisations and strange conclusions to draw from your experience of funerals here. I've been to a fair few funerals in different countries where nobody was crying, doesn't mean people weren't upset or that they didn't value life.

I've also been to a fair few wakes where people were visibly enjoying themselves and giving the deceased a proper send off, focusing on life and humorous memories of the deceased alive rather than revelling in grief over their death. In my experience dealing with death is very personal and varies from person to person.

When the head of my wife's family died, a very elderly, much loved Thai man with a vast family network, his family members travelled from far and wide from various countries and different provinces to pay their respects. It was quite obvious that his passing had a profound effect on the family and evidently he was much loved and valued.

Death is handled culturally. All different. We cannot judge on response of people at funerals. For example the blacks in New Orleans actually throw big parties at funerals with bands playing and people cheering.

[skorchio]

I hope this family can find peace. God Bless.

[dingdang]

i thought the OP perhaps meant, people being "indifferent"...

it doesnt have to be crying or cheering, but also not indifference...

Edited June 27, 2012 by dingdang

[skorchio]

It's getting to a point that the Thai Tourism claims of Thailand being a a family destination has gone from rediculous to bizzare. Who in their right mind would bring their family here after all the foreigner deaths? It's becoming a "come at your own risk" destination. Always has been but risk levels seem to be increasing.

Thailand like most other countries in SE Asia has always been a 'come at your own risk' destination. That's part of the allure; you take your shots, get your travel insurance in place, pack a first aid kit and go. But I suppose the most important thing to remember is to maintain constant vigilance when you are there. Ultimately there is only so far vigilance will protect you, these girls, God rest their souls, are surely victims of circumtances they could never have been foreseen, whatever those circumsyance are. Personally I think the Scottish lady who was with them, who also fell ill, can throw some light on what happened. What news of the Scottish lady?

[maidu]

If many people post on a thread like this, it shows their concern. It's no big deal if some of them mention possible scenarios. Such folks aren't presenting themselves as expert sleuths - but instead showing they care - and many of the comments are plausible.

It's doubtful Thai detectives will follow-up with the Scottish woman, even though she could possibly offer useful insight. To do such scrutinizing takes effort, a handle on English, time, and some expense. It's easier for Thai authorities to toss out one or two vague theories, and hope the whole mess blows over.

Edited June 27, 2012 by maidu

[Dukeleto]

How extremely tragic,two children dead, traveled the world and met their deaths in Thailand, so very sorry for their parents,what strength they must have going through this, this is an eye opener for all of us who live here and for other travelers, deepest condolences, RIP, Thailand seems to be like an old rotting Temple, the wood is rotten but a few coats of paint and it looks like new, you cannot build a country on a rotten core, then try to cover it up with a smile!!

Hard even to get a smile these days outside of a 5 star hotel!

[Ferangled]

And don't forget everybody. Live is cheap in Thailand. It is not valued and treasured be it a Thai or Farang life. They just don't care. I've been to funerals here where nobody cries except maybe the wife and kids. For everybody else it's tea and crumpets time (or cha and kanom).

What gross generalisations and strange conclusions to draw from your experience of funerals here. I've been to a fair few funerals in different countries where nobody was crying, doesn't mean people weren't upset or that they didn't value life.

I've also been to a fair few wakes where people were visibly enjoying themselves and giving the deceased a proper send off, focusing on life and humorous memories of the deceased alive rather than revelling in grief over their death. In my experience dealing with death is very personal and varies from person to person.

When the head of my wife's family died, a very elderly, much loved Thai man with a vast family network, his family members travelled from far and wide from various countries and different provinces to pay their respects. It was quite obvious that his passing had a profound effect on the family and evidently he was much loved and valued.

Death is handled culturally. All different. We cannot judge on response of people at funerals. For example the blacks in New Orleans actually throw big parties at funerals with bands playing and people cheering.

Agree, that was my point. It's also personal and varies within a single culture.

Took me 2 days to recover from the last funeral I attended in Ireland... acute Guinness & whisky induced hangover, a state which the deceased would have been proud of. The only tears shed were in laughter...

[Dukeleto]

My condolences and sincere regrets to the family. This is a tragedy of epic proportions!!!

There should be a media exposé on this case starting yesterday!

There should be a world wide manhunt for the guy seen on CCTV so he can either shed light on the tragedy or be implicated.

The whole world should be made aware of the case and the ongoing investigation to bring extreme pressure on all authorities to come up with the answer in this case.

Media coverage should be intensive so people can see what is or is not happening to prevent any speculation over a cover up or give credence to it.

No stone should be left unturned until this case is solved to the satisfaction of the family concerned.

May the two girls rest in peace.

[NelsonHubbucks]

Like many others I wish to add my condolences to the family of those unfortunate sisters.

So much speculation on this forum really does nothing for for the grieving family.

In time ! the truth will come to light.

Its a great shame there is nothing like a Royal Commission here in Thailand ( Lieland)

[fullcave]

Condolences to the family, no parent should outlive their kids.

I can already see the thought process of the authorities though....two foreigners, they're gone, so there's nothing we can do now, back to drinking. We say 12 hours so it looks like we were really doing our job, and not checking out girls in bikinis. Anything to put the blame on someone else. That's the saddest thing of all, save face now, more innocent tourists pay the price later.

Exactly,.. The logic is it was accident and we can't bring them back so lets blame it on "outside" source. However a cover up could cost other tourists their lives. In Chiang Mai they also called it food poisoning from "outside" source and six more tourists died. It turned out the poison was in the mattress they were sleeping on! Not sure if anybody was ever held accountable. However i understand the hotel was demolished.... Very sad for this guy to loose his babies.

[PhilipCook]

Its some comfort to have the final words from the daughters be so touching but to lose them so far away under such circumstances is deeply depressing.

[terry101]

Of course Thai authorities will do everything in their power to cover up anything that would harm the tourist industry...that's the way of Thailand....miracle Thailand!!!

Total rubbish.

Firstly, although of course this is extremely tragic for the girls parents, why is the father making accusations that the Thai authorities are covering up the actual cause of death when the Canadian coroner hasn’t even issued the results as yet?

Surely the time to make such statements is when the autopsy reports are completed.

Also, I have stayed and still do from time to time at many hotels all over Thailand. I can tell you that maids and cleaning staff would rarely disturb guests if they think they are still inside their rooms. This is standard practice and there is nothing unusual about staff not entering hotel rooms if occupied. So nothing suspicious regarding the time delay in finding the girls bodies at all and I would also dispute the 48-hour time body discovery period as described by the father.

Sorry if I sound harsh. I have children of my own and really feel hurt for the parents, but we must deal with actual facts here and not speculations and accusations that so far are completely unfounded.

Au contraire, It is normal practise for maids to enter a room if there is no answer and no 'do not disturb' sign in use. Staff are generally told to enter, if for no other reason, to check that the guests are still actually in residence. I also stay in hotels frequently throughout Thailand and beyond and have had maids enter on numerous occasions occasionally with embarrassing results.

Agree 100%, this has also happened to me on quite a few occasions. They knock on the door, if there is no answer, they use their master key to enter.

I have to agree on this. I am a resort manager, and part of our Housekeeping Standard operating Procedure for when entering a guest's room would be to first knock, wait a few seconds and if know answer from the guest they would know again, then if there is again no answer they would slowly enter the room stating "Housekkeping, may I enter your room". This similar type of SOP is what gets used in 99% of hotels across the world.

[SunsetT]

However, I think we must trust the Canadian pathologists to come up with an accurate report and cause of death...

From there, investigations can continue.

are you saying, the canadians have to perform the full autopsy on the disinfected and enbalmed bodies, and then thai authorities will accept and follow up on it?

sounds rather funny, doesnt it?

more likely there just occured two more "unexplained" deaths (on phi phi)... unexplained, because thailand refuses to explain them...

yes, the hotel has certainly something to hide, as its story doesnt add up...

when the maid knocks and nobody opens, she does open the door... thats everywhere the same...

and the maids do have a master key ready all the time... i have never seen anything else throughout asia nor europe...

who knows, if the rooms wasnt "made up" already, before the police arrived on friday?

I beg to differ..........The maids do not always have a master key. At the hotel where I stay regularly in Udon, when I go out I usually hand my room key to the cleaner who keeps a bag of vacant room keys, They do not clean the

room unless they get the room key from reception or the guests. Thats how they know the rooms are unoccupied. When travelling around Thailand, like you, I have found that most hotels do conscientiously clean the room everyday. BUT from personal experience I have found the exception to this rule to be lower end hotels at beach resorts such as Phi Phi. When touring I usually stay 2-3 nights and quite often the room is not cleaned at all during this time. Also, think about it, many of these young backpackers party all night and sleep most of the day, so the cleaners cant get in to clean during the day. Also I think that changing day and night reception staff could easily not notice if guests do not emerge from their room for a day or more with so many guests coming and going at a busy beach resort. And lets face it, Thais are not the most observant of people are they? Most are generally far more more preoccupied with their own lives and their 24 hour soap operas and have little interest in their Farang guests.

When I think of my own teens and youth, growing up in the West with excesses in every area and the risks we didn't even know or care that we were taking, it is a wonder any of us survive. Life really is a lottery!

But my heart goes out to this poor father and mother. I cannot begin to imagine their pain and grief.

[Chopperboy]

I am so concerned about this! I have my own personal story of poisioning in Thailand this year. I have just recovered from major stomach surgery after a trip to Thailand to visit my wife (soon to be ex) and her family during Songkrahn. The lower half of my stomach and half of my liver has been removed to combat a perforated peptic ulcer. Both my kidneys were damaged with one of them completely destroyed.

A few days after arriving in Thailand I fell ill with blood from both my mouth and backside and yet i was left helpless in a small room while my wife and her family were busy celebrating Songkrahn. Eventually i escaped in disgust to the airport and returned home where i received support and medical help from my friends and loved ones (luckily i still have some after my wife's antics in the neighborhood where i live).

Anyway, after the operation was completed the pathology report is showng some strange results. Poison is suspected I hope they find the result before I run out of money. I have been told by investigators for my lawyer that proving that I was poisoned in Thailand will be next to impossible for a foreigner which i find sad. I wonder how many foreigners are suffering their wives without even knowing it.

The Chinese authorities (where i currently live) have decided to take some action but are waiting for a response. I have been told that i cannot stop the action of the police here but i am concerned for what might happen to my two children if some kind of investigation goes on in Thailand. For now, I just want peace recovery and rest from the trauma and to count myself lucky that I even got medical help.

The most worrying thing is the increase in reported poison related or stomach related incidents in Thailand there are now.... Is Thailand becoming the hub of poisoners?

What you're rightfully discussing is a very sensitive topic here in Thailand. Poisoning is the prefered method of killing spouses and even unwanted children in Thailand.'

Many farangs will have been killed throughout provincial Thailand (isan) by Thai wives using this method. Body cremated ...end of story.

If your children are still in Thailand and your suspicious of your ex wife then get the kids the hell out of there ASAP....no joking.

Angry and jealous Thai women DO poison children expecially if they're farangs.

Thais are well aware of how deadly poisonous some of the trees, plants & fungi are here.

The castor oil plant contains Ricin, the rosary pea or jequirity pea contains the Abrin which is so deadly as to be classed as a "Select Agent" under U.S. law. It takes nothing for a Thai wife (on the make) to put that in the husbands dinner or drink.

Another popular way to kill a ferang is to have them run down on a motorcycle or bike.

[Unkomoncents]

Of course Thai authorities will do everything in their power to cover up anything that would harm the tourist industry...that's the way of Thailand....miracle Thailand!!!

Total rubbish.

Firstly, although of course this is extremely tragic for the girls parents, why is the father making accusations that the Thai authorities are covering up the actual cause of death when the Canadian coroner hasn’t even issued the results as yet?

Surely the time to make such statements is when the autopsy reports are completed.

Also, I have stayed and still do from time to time at many hotels all over Thailand. I can tell you that maids and cleaning staff would rarely disturb guests if they think they are still inside their rooms. This is standard practice and there is nothing unusual about staff not entering hotel rooms if occupied. So nothing suspicious regarding the time delay in finding the girls bodies at all and I would also dispute the 48-hour time body discovery period as described by the father.

Sorry if I sound harsh. I have children of my own and really feel hurt for the parents, but we must deal with actual facts here and not speculations and accusations that so far are completely unfounded.

So nothing suspicious regarding the time delay in finding the girls bodies at all and I would also dispute the 48-hour time body discovery period as described by the father.

And just what makes you think you have the authority to do that? Audacious as hell...that's all I'll say.

[Unkomoncents]

All these amateur sleuths on here, that according to them, the case is cut and dry. I’m honestly expecting Miss Marple and Sherlock Holmes to make a post at any moment with their analysis.

I wonder how many of you Thailand bashers actually live in Thailand? And if you do, why are you here?

The point is that we simply will not know until the concluding autopsy results are released. At this stage the possibilities for causes of death of these sisters is limitless. For myself, I really have no idea. Only time will tell.

Because we have family here ****. You're an obscurantist to the n-th degree. There is obviously, obviously, obviously something fishy and wrong with this story, and if YOU'VE ever actually lived in Thailand, you would know that. This country is full of scams, crime, backwardness, and everything else that characterizes a third world country. If you want to blindly give over to loving whatever beast you've chosen to live with, fine, but don't try to tell me (and others) that you haven't chosen to live with a beast when it's plainly obvious.

[mrtoad]

The cover up was in play from the start, various differing stories - Ibuprofen, food poisoning, magic mushrooms, Portuguese tourists etc, etc

Investigations in this country by the BIB are a joke, and even if the autopsy has been carried out correctly, the BS at the beginning of the investigation will always leave doubt in many peoples minds.

I truly hope that there will be correct findings from the Canadian authorities, so at least the family can have some closure on all the suspicion around this.

[indyuk]

All these amateur sleuths on here, that according to them, the case is cut and dry. I’m honestly expecting Miss Marple and Sherlock Holmes to make a post at any moment with their analysis.

I wonder how many of you Thailand bashers actually live in Thailand? And if you do, why are you here?

The point is that we simply will not know until the concluding autopsy results are released. At this stage the possibilities for causes of death of these sisters is limitless. For myself, I really have no idea. Only time will tell.

I respect your opinion but it is naive. We are here because Thailand makes it attractive for us to come to Thailand either as a tourist, academic or a retiree because the government feels that Thailand needs our business (Money) and/or our knowledge. The Thai judiciary are aware that the ordinary Thai people want a piece of the same action. Hence for example some Thai mothers indenture their own daughters to the' foreigner targeted sex industry' following their daughter having an unwanted child or sometimes because the daughter is not educated enough to provide income to the family. I all cases these young women send money home for her child and her parents. Some become the wife of one of the foreign customers and are able to redeem her parents financial obligations.

I first arrived in Thailand twenty years ago. I now love Thailand as my home complete with it's warts and all. My best friend, is a Thai woman that I trust with my life. Yet I am aware that many a Thai wife has been corrupted into harming her foreign husband in order to make his money more available to her family than was possible without some action being taken.

The murder of foreign people for financial gain is rather common in Thailand compared to the west as it is in other countries like Mexico for example. So Thailand and Mexico are examples of places where foreigners have to be very careful. However we could of course go to places like Singapore where we would be safe but would probably die of boredom.

The route of most of Thailand's judicial problems is routed in corruption, debt and poverty. I am confident that the present government will improve the situation dramatically through the reduction of poverty and the irradiation of the corruption of the insiders.

CAVEAT I am acutely aware that some of the government opposition is profoundly interested in the opposite.

You might think that my comment is too damming for someone that claims to love Thailand but you'd be wrong. As I said above I love Thailand warts and all.

[allan michaud]

Of course Thai authorities will do everything in their power to cover up anything that would harm the tourist industry...that's the way of Thailand....miracle Thailand!!!

Total rubbish.

Firstly, although of course this is extremely tragic for the girls parents, why is the father making accusations that the Thai authorities are covering up the actual cause of death when the Canadian coroner hasn’t even issued the results as yet?

Surely the time to make such statements is when the autopsy reports are completed.

Also, I have stayed and still do from time to time at many hotels all over Thailand. I can tell you that maids and cleaning staff would rarely disturb guests if they think they are still inside their rooms. This is standard practice and there is nothing unusual about staff not entering hotel rooms if occupied. So nothing suspicious regarding the time delay in finding the girls bodies at all and I would also dispute the 48-hour time body discovery period as described by the father.

Sorry if I sound harsh. I have children of my own and really feel hurt for the parents, but we must deal with actual facts here and not speculations and accusations that so far are completely unfounded.

So why do you dispute the 48-hour time body discovery period as described by the father?

You are a CSI?

I would assume he has been told by examiners in Canada that the apparent condition of the body and the police account of 12 hours don't match. We don't know why he made the comment so please explain your remark.

[blackthorn2005]

Of course Thai authorities will do everything in their power to cover up anything that would harm the tourist industry...that's the way of Thailand....miracle Thailand!!!

""I was dreading Thailand," he said." So are many people know, time to find an alternative.

[dingdang]

Of course Thai authorities will do everything in their power to cover up anything that would harm the tourist industry...that's the way of Thailand....miracle Thailand!!!

Total rubbish.

Firstly, although of course this is extremely tragic for the girls parents, why is the father making accusations that the Thai authorities are covering up the actual cause of death when the Canadian coroner hasn’t even issued the results as yet?

Surely the time to make such statements is when the autopsy reports are completed.

Also, I have stayed and still do from time to time at many hotels all over Thailand. I can tell you that maids and cleaning staff would rarely disturb guests if they think they are still inside their rooms. This is standard practice and there is nothing unusual about staff not entering hotel rooms if occupied. So nothing suspicious regarding the time delay in finding the girls bodies at all and I would also dispute the 48-hour time body discovery period as described by the father.

Sorry if I sound harsh. I have children of my own and really feel hurt for the parents, but we must deal with actual facts here and not speculations and accusations that so far are completely unfounded.

So why do you dispute the 48-hour time body discovery period as described by the father?

You are a CSI?

I would assume he has been told by examiners in Canada that the apparent condition of the body and the police account of 12 hours don't match. We don't know why he made the comment so please explain your remark.

the daughters called home every other day in the evening...

last time they called was monday, so they were supposed to call again wednesday evening..

they didnt do...

the poisoning started tuesday to wednesday night...

Edited June 27, 2012 by dingdang

[canuckamuck]

the daughters called every other day home in the evening...

last time they called was monday, so they were supposed to call again wednesday evening..

they didnt do...

Yes and the police were on the scene Friday so 48 hours sounds right to me.