How Low Taxes Benefit Thais

[chops]

If you ask any food seller or worker on the street here what they pay in taxes here you might get a puzzled look. Despite having low wages Thais always manage to have plenty of cash on them. They are not hungry. They can afford healthcare, brand new cars, and other nice things. They are generally fairly well off. What can we learn from this?

I used to live in the US. In the US taxes are quite high despite what some people claim. I worked at a job but a big chunk of the money was siphoned off to the lazy members of society, old people who don't want to work, and government bureaucrats who simply waste the money on outrageous salaries and useless projects. Despite the high wages everybody seems to be complaining about not having enough money. It doesn't go very far as you would expect it should. Gee, I wonder why.

But in Thailand they have a system where the government does not act like a bloodsucker on the economy. Workers keep what they earn. Imagine that. No wonder they are so flush with cash. It's not stolen by the government.

Just think how much richer some countries would be if their government just stopped stealing from their own people. Certainly we'd here less whining from some people about not having enough money.

[angiud]

old people who don't want to work

[brit1984]

On the other hand, if Thais paid more taxes there would be less holes in the pavement.

[LucidLucifer]

Your average food seller pays zero tax because they don't declare any earnings.

Other workers pay a low rate because they earn very little. Once you get into a salary comparable to western standards, tax rates of 30% + apply.

I really disagree with your opinion that Thais are generally well off. This simply isn't true compared to developed nations. Yes, there are some rich Thais out there, and a small but sizable middle-class that are comfortable. I'd say there are a much greater number that are far from wealthy, not living had to mouth, but hardly comfortable. Are you even aware of what the average Thai worker earns per month?

Edited July 2, 2012 by LucidLucifer

[skybluestu]

Only the lowest earners don't pay income tax and I'm sure they'd be surprised to hear you say they are 'flush with cash'!

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

[LucidLucifer]

On the other hand, if Thais paid more taxes there would be less holes in the pavement.

Pay the police a decent salary, and they'd be less inclined to be corrupt. Pay teachers a decent salary and the profession may actually attract some quality graduates.....the list could on and on....

[brit1984]

I agree with the OP (in general) as in my opinion, most Western countries have gone too far towards high taxes and high spending.

My view is that people should be given as much freedom as possible to earn and spend their money as they see fit.

Obviously some public goods (e.g. police, state education, healthcare for the poor) require public funding.

However, in Western countries, the governments also use tax revenues to buy votes from the poor (the cheapest votes available).

Hopefully, Thailand will not go down this disastrous path, but (given the way politics work) it is rather inevitable.

Indeed, the manifesto of the party that was elected at the last election could be a bad omen for the future.

[LucidLucifer]

However, in Western countries, the governments also use tax revenues to buy votes from the poor (the cheapest votes available).

Here, individuals just use personal fortunes to buy votes. The get an unofficial refund for their expenditure when elected though....

[skybluestu]

I agree with the OP (in general) as in my opinion, most Western countries have gone too far towards high taxes and high spending.

My view is that people should be given as much freedom as possible to earn and spend their money as they see fit.

Obviously some public goods (e.g. police, state education, healthcare for the poor) require public funding.

However, in Western countries, the governments also use tax revenues to buy votes from the poor (the cheapest votes available).

Hopefully, Thailand will not go down this disastrous path, but (given the way politics work) it is rather inevitable.

Indeed, the manifesto of the party that was elected at the last election could be a bad omen for the future.

Brit, surely you must know that blatant vote-buying is common here?! They don't need to cover it up by saying they will lower taxes if they win, they actually bribe voters to vote for them with cash payments, often only a few hundred baht. It is accepted here and people are quite open about it, most of my colleagues admitted to receiving 250-400baht for their vote at the last election.

[brit1984]

I agree with the OP (in general) as in my opinion, most Western countries have gone too far towards high taxes and high spending.

My view is that people should be given as much freedom as possible to earn and spend their money as they see fit.

Obviously some public goods (e.g. police, state education, healthcare for the poor) require public funding.

However, in Western countries, the governments also use tax revenues to buy votes from the poor (the cheapest votes available).

Hopefully, Thailand will not go down this disastrous path, but (given the way politics work) it is rather inevitable.

Indeed, the manifesto of the party that was elected at the last election could be a bad omen for the future.

Brit, surely you must know that blatant vote-buying is common here?! They don't need to cover it up by saying they will lower taxes if they win, they actually bribe voters to vote for them with cash payments, often only a few hundred baht. It is accepted here and people are quite open about it, most of my colleagues admitted to receiving 250-400baht for their vote at the last election.

While vote buying for a few hundred baht per person per election is a worrying sign, it does not compare to the West where working tax payers are forced by the government to donate a significant portion of the income they have worked for to provide regular cash payments, accommodation and access to expensive public services for people who don't work (and in many cases have never worked).

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[w11guy]

The OP obviously doesn't know many Thai people. Most live in places that most of us wouldn't live in. Most don't have cars. Life is a struggle for most Thais, even office workers. I know many office workers on 15-20K baht and life in general is a bit of a struggle. They can't afford a car or a house and have to live at home.

The OP needs to get out a bit more and meet more people.

[Pseudolus]

Au contraire - they do pay taxes but not that they recognise. Every time they bribe an official or copper it is in lieu of the tax money they should be paying to give those corrupt buggers a decent wages.

Thailand is a 3rd / 4th world piss pot of a country because no one pays taxes. They do not pay taxes because they believe the country gives them nothing in return so why pay? The result is the government has no money (after they have taken their bungs) to give back to the people anyway... because no one pays taxes.

A mild correction by the way -

"government does not act like a bloodsucker on the economy"

You can omit the words "not" and "on the economy". It is a truer reflection then. If you are feeling more full of derring do, you can also change the word governement for "Every politician, the HiSo families, as well as any one who actually can"

[LucidLucifer]

While vote buying for a few hundred baht per person per election is a worrying sign, it does not compare to the West where working tax payers are forced by the government to donate a significant portion of the income they have worked for to provide regular cash payments, accommodation and access to expensive public services for people who don't work (and in many cases have never worked).

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

I agree with you regarding freeloaders in the UK, but going back to Thailand, how do you think Thaksin and his little sis' have been funding their populist follies? Tax payer's money.

If you ask me which i'd prefer, i'd rather pay for a full and inclusive welfare state system with my tax money (even if it is open to abuse some of the time) than pay for a corrupt businessman to woo the poorly educated rural masses so he can gain power, influence and money.

[brit1984]

While vote buying for a few hundred baht per person per election is a worrying sign, it does not compare to the West where working tax payers are forced by the government to donate a significant portion of the income they have worked for to provide regular cash payments, accommodation and access to expensive public services for people who don't work (and in many cases have never worked).

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

I agree with you regarding freeloaders in the UK, but going back to Thailand, how do you think Thaksin and his little sis' have been funding their populist follies? Tax payer's money.

If you ask me which i'd prefer, i'd rather pay for a full and inclusive welfare state system with my tax money (even if it is open to abuse some of the time) than pay for a corrupt businessman to woo the poorly educated rural masses so he can gain power, influence and money.

Both are pretty awful situations.

Singapore has the best model.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[QED]

The first 20k per month or so is tax free, after that it is on a sliding scale up to 37%. My tax bill here is not far off what I used to pay in the UK. I have a lot of Thai staff who are contributing quite a lot in taxes

[LucidLucifer]

While vote buying for a few hundred baht per person per election is a worrying sign, it does not compare to the West where working tax payers are forced by the government to donate a significant portion of the income they have worked for to provide regular cash payments, accommodation and access to expensive public services for people who don't work (and in many cases have never worked).

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

I agree with you regarding freeloaders in the UK, but going back to Thailand, how do you think Thaksin and his little sis' have been funding their populist follies? Tax payer's money.

If you ask me which i'd prefer, i'd rather pay for a full and inclusive welfare state system with my tax money (even if it is open to abuse some of the time) than pay for a corrupt businessman to woo the poorly educated rural masses so he can gain power, influence and money.

Both are pretty awful situations.

Singapore has the best model.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

Yes, both are far from ideal.

At the last school I was teaching at in the UK it was quite commonplace for some of the professional freeloading families to attempt to push the school to apply for their children to be given statements of special educational needs. They knew they would then be entitled to more benefits.

These children weren't deserving, there was nothing wrong with them other than behavioural issues. The head used to advise parenting courses as the first step. Of course, none accepted the offer, and that was generally the last you'd hear of it. You've got to love her for that!

Edited July 3, 2012 by LucidLucifer

[Sateev]

Taxes high in the US? Don't make me laugh. Try Scandinavia.

And who pays those 'high taxes' in the US? Those who can't afford to exploit loopholes created by lobbyists, i.e., everyone from the upper-middle class, down, including those who get nothing for it. The rich pay squat, except for the cost of doing business: buying politicians.

Give me a break.

BTW, although they pay high taxes, many Scandos would NEVER trade place with the poor sods living in the US. Go figure.

I say, in the US, decimate the IRS, re-write the tax code so there is no need for tax attorneys and accountants, and make it simple enough for those who can find their asses with both hands to pay their fair share.

[exeter]

Its easy spend other peoples money, ask any government, if they choose to understand the question.