Uk Spouse Visa Application W/Sponsor'S Employment Unknown

[Insight]

Hi,

Mrs Insight and I will be moving back to the UK later this year. I'll be leaving in August and she'll be following on a few months later. She'd like the get the visa application process started ASAP, but obviously my employment status in the UK has not been determined.

She has had many tourist visas to the UK, and her current 6-month tourist visa expires in May next year. I guess we have the following options available to us:

1. Submit the spouse visa application form with my employment details left blank, using her history of successful tourist visa applications of some sort of proof I can support her. I guess this is still risking some form of refusal however...?

2. Wait until I've found some sort of work in the UK, then submit the spouse visa with all the application details. But I believe this risks delaying the visa application process and therefore her move to the UK even further...?

3. Use her remaining tourist visa initially, then apply for a spouse visa within the UK - is this possible...?

Much appreciate any guidance anybody can provide here.

Thanks in advance,

I

[bangkockney]

After 9th July there are a raft of new changes. A minimum income level for the sponsor and no third party financial support. You will fall foul of these.

There's a few threads running on the issue already, have a read.

Good luck.

Only point 2 will be a valid course of action.

[tribalfusion001]

You will need to earn £18,600 from 09/07/2012 with no children to bring a spouse into the uk, no 3rd party support allowed, she cannot upgrade to a spouse from a visit visa in the uk, if you leave your employment details blank, then you will be refused. If you secure a job in the uk, you will need to working in this job for 3 months before applying, but you can provide a job offer letter with your application if you remain in Thailand, but it has to be £18,600 per annum.

[bobrussell]

You will be refused if you leave the income section blank. Your wife cannot change from a visit visa to a settlement visa in the UK.

I am sure these changes will be challenged in the courts but in the meantime you will need to comply with the new rules.

[VisasPlus]

You will need to earn £18,600 from 09/07/2012 with no children to bring a spouse into the uk, no 3rd party support allowed, she cannot upgrade to a spouse from a visit visa in the uk, if you leave your employment details blank, then you will be refused. If you secure a job in the uk, you will need to working in this job for 3 months before applying, but you can provide a job offer letter with your application if you remain in Thailand, but it has to be £18,600 per annum.

I don't think it's quite as simple as you make out here. The offer of a job is no longer enough to meet the requirements.

It will depend on whether the OP is already in the UK when his wife applies for her visa, or whether they are leaving Thailand together. In either case, and even if there is a job offer, then the sponsor has to meet more requirements than just having a job offer.

[7by7]

I don't think it's quite as simple as you make out here.

Indeed.

The new financial requirements can be quite complicated; especially where the sponsor has been living and working outside the UK.

See pages 16 to 22 and appendices C and D of the statement of intent.

Note that the sponsor does not need to have a job. Unearned income, e.g. a pension or from investments, can be used to meet the requirement.

As can a combination of earned and unearned income.

[Insight]

Thanks to all posters so far - much appreciate the info. Lots to mull on!

I don't think it's quite as simple as you make out here.

Indeed.

The new financial requirements can be quite complicated; especially where the sponsor has been living and working outside the UK.

See pages 16 to 22 and appendices C and D of the statement of intent.

Note that the sponsor does not need to have a job. Unearned income, e.g. a pension or from investments, can be used to meet the requirement.

As can a combination of earned and unearned income.

Do you know if the 16,000 GBP quoted in section 152 can be sourced from accounts outside the UK? If so, we may be able to meet this requirement. I'm under the impression that if I do have these funds available leaving my employment status blank wouldn't be fatal to the application...?

[VisasPlus]

Thanks to all posters so far - much appreciate the info. Lots to mull on!

I don't think it's quite as simple as you make out here.

Indeed.

The new financial requirements can be quite complicated; especially where the sponsor has been living and working outside the UK.

See pages 16 to 22 and appendices C and D of the statement of intent.

Note that the sponsor does not need to have a job. Unearned income, e.g. a pension or from investments, can be used to meet the requirement.

As can a combination of earned and unearned income.

Do you know if the 16,000 GBP quoted in section 152 can be sourced from accounts outside the UK? If so, we may be able to meet this requirement. I'm under the impression that if I do have these funds available leaving my employment status blank wouldn't be fatal to the application...?

It is not just 16,000 GBP that is required. If you have no income ( no employment, pension, etc ) then you require savings of 62,500 GBP. If you have income then this can reduce the required amount of savings, and vice versa.

[bobrussell]

In effect they only take savings over £16K into account and this must have been held for at least six months before application. Hence the savings of £62 500 requirement if you have no income.

Edited July 3, 2012 by bobrussell

[Insight]

^ Thanks for the clarification, gents. Looks like I'm going to have to get me a job

/edit - one more question - Does my wife's passport need to be surrendered during the entire application process? Obviously we'd like to make the application as soon as I can qualify to be a sponsor, but there's also an important event (hopefully) happening in the UK in December she would like to attend.

Edited July 3, 2012 by 7by7
See below

[bobrussell]

Yes your wife's passport needs to stay with them and generally requesting it back effectively withdraws the application. I am not sure if there are exceptions on compassionate grounds.

[7by7]

If she requests her passport back before her visa is issued then the application will be treated as withdrawn; the fee wont be refunded though.

However, as Bob says she can request it back on compassionate grounds, though it is unlikely that an important event in December would be considered such. Particularly as she has plenty of time to apply and have her visa issued before then.

NB

Some unnecessary provocative remarks and a post responding to them have been removed.

[Insight]

Thanks again bob & 7by7. Although not the best news, the feedback on here has been massively helpful in planning the way forward. However, it looks like her spouse visa application may have to begin after a short trip to the UK in December - another delay

One last request - if you could point me in the direction of the requirements for a sponsor who is self-employed? I work in TH as a contract based software engineer, and would like to continue doing so in the UK. This no doubt entails setting up a PLC of sorts. How will my doing this, rather than looking for full time employment, affect my position as a sponsor?

[7by7]

There are no specific requirements for a self employed sponsor. Employed or self employed the sponsor and applicant need to show that the financial requirement is met.

If meeting the requirement from income, as most do, then to show income an employed person would use their last 6 months pay slips whereas a self employed person would use their certified accounts and/or self assessment statements from HMRC.

However if the self employed sponsor has not been in business long enough to have completed a tax return then a provisional statement of accounts should be sufficient.

Employed or self employed, you should also provide bank statements for the last 6 months.

[VisasPlus]

Thanks again bob & 7by7. Although not the best news, the feedback on here has been massively helpful in planning the way forward. However, it looks like her spouse visa application may have to begin after a short trip to the UK in December - another delay

One last request - if you could point me in the direction of the requirements for a sponsor who is self-employed? I work in TH as a contract based software engineer, and would like to continue doing so in the UK. This no doubt entails setting up a PLC of sorts. How will my doing this, rather than looking for full time employment, affect my position as a sponsor?

I suspect that you will not be able to fulfill the new requirements if you are not registered with HMRC as self employed, have not been paying tax, etc in the UK. The new requirements for self-employed sponsors to meet the financial requirements are:

5.5.3 In respect of self-employment – partnership, sole trader, franchise: evidence of all of the following must be submitted:

•

The amount of tax payable for the last financial year; the amount of tax paid for the last financial year; and the amount of any unpaid tax for the last financial year.

•

Latest annual self-assessment tax return to HMRC and Statement of Account (SA300 or SA302). If necessary, the same for the previous financial year if the latest

17

return does not show the necessary level of income, but the average of the last 2 financial years does.

•

Proof of registration with HMRC as self-employed. Proof of registration must be original or certified copy of documentation issued by HMRC only.

•

Each partner’s Unique Tax Reference Number (UTR) and/or the UTR of the partnership or business.

•

Where the person holds or held a separate business bank account(s), monthly bank statements for the same 12-month period as the tax return(s).

•

Monthly personal bank statements for the same 12-month period as the tax return(s). These statements must show that the income from self-employment has been paid into the person’s account.

•

Evidence of ongoing self-employment: for self-employed persons, evidence of payment of Class 2 National Insurance contributions. For Directors, Current Appointment Reports from Companies House.

One of the following documents must also be submitted:

•

Organisation’s latest annual audited accounts with the name of the accountant clearly shown. The accountant must be a member of an accredited accounting body (CIMA, CIPFA, ACCA, ACA, etc).

•

Certificate of VAT registration and latest VAT return confirming VAT registration number if turnover in excess of £73,000.

•

Evidence to show appropriate planning permission or local planning authority consent is held to operate the type/class of business at the trading address (where this is a local authority requirement).

•

Franchise agreement signed by both parties. This is a mandatory document for any organisation that is a franchise.

I would think that you would have to return to the UK and either take salaried employment for 6 months minimum at the required new income level (minimum 18,600 GBP a year ) , or set up your own business as self - employed ( and get the above required documentation ).

Edited July 4, 2012 by VisasPlus

[Insight]

Thanks VisasPlus n 7by7. This is quickly becoming a major bombshell.

I guess using the in-laws (my parents) as a sponsor is a no-go?

[VisasPlus]

Thanks VisasPlus n 7by7. This is quickly becoming a major bombshell.

I guess using the in-laws (my parents) as a sponsor is a no-go?

You could have used them, but the new rules ( starting on the 9th July) put an end to "third party" support. They can provide accommodation, but not financial support. It is clear that the government is trying to ensure that sponsors are "in the system" in the UK. If they weren't before, then they will have to be if they want to take a spouse/partner to the UK now.

If you have savings, then you can use that to offset the income requirement, as previously pointed out. That money can be "gifted" to you, or the applicant, by your parents, but it has to be "under your control", and in your bank ( or similar financial institution) for at least 6 months before the date of application.

Edited July 4, 2012 by VisasPlus

[Insight]

Is that the full 65,200 GBP amount which needs to be gifted 6 months before application date?

[VisasPlus]

Is that the full 65,200 GBP amount which needs to be gifted 6 months before application date?

If you have no other income that meets the financial requirement, then yes. If you have some income, but not the required 18,600, then the amount of savings is reduced. There is a formula to work out exactly how much you need in savings if your income is below 18,600.

Income does not necessarily have to be from a job, it could come from non - salaried income too, such as income from property rental or interest on investments.

Edited July 4, 2012 by VisasPlus

[paully]

In short, Insight, get a job in the UK, get some payslips together and then allow your wife to submit her application! Not ideal for you, but it would appear now to be the safest way. Good luck.

[MESmith]

Does the GBP 62,500 have to in cash deposits or will a combination of cash & investment funds suffice?

[VisasPlus]

Does the GBP 62,500 have to in cash deposits or will a combination of cash & investment funds suffice?

The guidance says this :

The source of the cash savings must be declared. Any legal source, including a family member or other third party, will be permitted, provided that the applicant’s partner, the applicant or couple (as appropriate) can confirm that the money – which cannot be borrowed – is under their control.

•

The cash savings may be held in any form of bank/savings account. In the US (and any other country with such provision), this can include, for those of retirement age, savings held in a pension savings accounts which can be immediately withdrawn: 401k, Roth IRA.

•

Paid out competition winnings or a legacy which has been received can contribute to cash savings.

And this :

In respect of the use of cash savings to meet any shortfall against the income threshold under the financial requirement:

•

To be counted, the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly must have cash savings of more than £16,000 (the level of savings at which a person generally ceases to be eligible for income-related benefits), held by the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly (but not with a third party) for at least 6 months at the point of application and under their control.

And this :

Dividends or other income from investments, stocks and shares, bonds or trust funds: These must be owned by the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly.

•

Interest from savings: The savings must be held in the name of the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly.

[MESmith]

Does the GBP 62,500 have to in cash deposits or will a combination of cash & investment funds suffice?

The guidance says this :

The source of the cash savings must be declared. Any legal source, including a family member or other third party, will be permitted, provided that the applicant’s partner, the applicant or couple (as appropriate) can confirm that the money – which cannot be borrowed – is under their control.

•

The cash savings may be held in any form of bank/savings account. In the US (and any other country with such provision), this can include, for those of retirement age, savings held in a pension savings accounts which can be immediately withdrawn: 401k, Roth IRA.

•

Paid out competition winnings or a legacy which has been received can contribute to cash savings.

And this :

In respect of the use of cash savings to meet any shortfall against the income threshold under the financial requirement:

•

To be counted, the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly must have cash savings of more than £16,000 (the level of savings at which a person generally ceases to be eligible for income-related benefits), held by the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly (but not with a third party) for at least 6 months at the point of application and under their control.

And this :

Dividends or other income from investments, stocks and shares, bonds or trust funds: These must be owned by the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly.

•

Interest from savings: The savings must be held in the name of the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly.

Thanks.

[Insight]

Hi,

Just one more question on this - are there any rules against changing jobs within the X months timeframe required, providing all jobs are above the 19K salary?

Thanks in advance...

[7by7]

No.

[Insight]

No.

Ace - Thanks!