Has Anyone A Story To Tell Ref Thai Tax On Retirement Pension Payments?

[factseeker]

Hi,

Been reading up ref Thai taxation on my UK based Pension.

Answers seem to range from no problem will not be taxed in Thailand to the complete reverse.

So can I ask everyone out there have you been taxed on your Retirment Pension payments? - if so some details.

Alternatively do you know of any one who has been taxed on their Retirment Pension payments.

Rgds.

FS.

[kokesaat]

I'm a US citizen.....drawing a US-based retirement pension while living in Thailand for the past 15 years. It's taxed by the US.....and not by Thailand. The same goes for all my dividends from money in US banks.

As for my money in Thai banks, I pay Thai tax.....but don't have to pay US tax on that income.

Something about a tax treaty between the US and Thailand. I believe the UK is in the same boat. I know several UK retirees here and none of them pay Thai tax on their UK pensions.

[true blue]

you can not be taxed twice on same income payment there is a dual tax aggrement world wide???

[factseeker]

I'm a US citizen.....drawing a US-based retirement pension while living in Thailand for the past 15 years. It's taxed by the US.....and not by Thailand. The same goes for all my dividends from money in US banks.

As for my money in Thai banks, I pay Thai tax.....but don't have to pay US tax on that income.

Something about a tax treaty between the US and Thailand. I believe the UK is in the same boat. I know several UK retirees here and none of them pay Thai tax on their UK pensions.

Hi Kokesaat,

Great info thnxs.

Only parameter missing is do any of your UK retirees friends bring in funds directly - which is what I have been intending.

By that I mean payments straight from the Pension Company into a Thai Foreign Deposit Account?

Then convert what is needed when needed.

Best Rgds & Thnxs.

FS

Edited July 7, 2012 by factseeker

[factseeker]

you can not be taxed twice on same income payment there is a dual tax aggrement world wide???

Hi True Blue,

Have heard - checked and understand that - no problem to pay tax to Thai Authorities on interest gained etc in Thailand. .

I will be paying tax at source on my private UK pension - so it arrives net..

But who ultimately decides who can actually take it?

There is an initial lump Sum involved which is legitimately a Tax Free in the UK starter - my concern might the same happen?

I see the Lump Sum as being a cut from years of saving way back in 1980's but will it be seen that way??

Best way for me to find out is ask what has actually been happening in practice.

So started this thread - so not just peoples ideas on subject but actually 'in practice' situation.

Thnxs for info so far and any else you might glean.

[lanny]

Both Kokesaat and True Blue are somewhat misinformed!

There are no worldwide treaties to eliminate double taxation. Even where there are bilateral treaties, such as the one between the U.S. and Thailand, they do not abolish double taxation.

Unlike Kokesaat says, the U.S. does tax interest on Thai bank accounts! Under the treaty, however, you may be entitled to a credit against the U.S. tax for any tax paid to Thailand on that income.

Under U.S. tax law, you must report and calculate the tax on your world wide income, no matter where earned, and no matter how much foreign tax you may have paid. Then, if you did pay a tax to another country, you offset the U.S. tax. In effect, you calculate the tax at the highest rate and then calculate how much goes to each country.

[factseeker]

Both Kokesaat and True Blue are somewhat misinformed!

There are no worldwide treaties to eliminate double taxation. Even where there are bilateral treaties, such as the one between the U.S. and Thailand, they do not abolish double taxation.

Unlike Kokesaat says, the U.S. does tax interest on Thai bank accounts! Under the treaty, however, you may be entitled to a credit against the U.S. tax for any tax paid to Thailand on that income.

Under U.S. tax law, you must report and calculate the tax on your world wide income, no matter where earned, and no matter how much foreign tax you may have paid. Then, if you did pay a tax to another country, you offset the U.S. tax. In effect, you calculate the tax at the highest rate and then calculate how much goes to each country.

Hi Lanny,

Not concerned ref what happens UK end - that is straightforward.

My concern is the other way around - if UK tax as per their rules - will the Thais say OK - no problem.

There appears to be a rule stating that tax can be applied to 'earnings' in current year that are brought in.

Is my Lump Sum in particular and 'earning' - well it was many years ago for me - 1980's - but will they say well you only just got it so it is current?

Thnxs for support.

Best Rgds.

FS

Edited July 7, 2012 by factseeker

[lanny]

Both Kokesaat and True Blue are somewhat misinformed!

There are no worldwide treaties to eliminate double taxation. Even where there are bilateral treaties, such as the one between the U.S. and Thailand, they do not abolish double taxation.

Unlike Kokesaat says, the U.S. does tax interest on Thai bank accounts! Under the treaty, however, you may be entitled to a credit against the U.S. tax for any tax paid to Thailand on that income.

Under U.S. tax law, you must report and calculate the tax on your world wide income, no matter where earned, and no matter how much foreign tax you may have paid. Then, if you did pay a tax to another country, you offset the U.S. tax. In effect, you calculate the tax at the highest rate and then calculate how much goes to each country.

Hi Lanny,

Not concerned ref what happens UK end - that is straightforward.

My concern is the other way around - if UK tax as per their rules - will the Thais say OK - no problem.

There appears to be a rule stating that tax can be applied to 'earnings' in current year that are brought in.

Is my Lump Sum in particular and 'earning' - well it was many years ago for me - 1980's - but will they say well you only just got it so it is current?

Thnxs for support.

Best Rgds.

FS

I ama not an expert on Thai taxes - U.S. taxation is my forte! However, I understand that Thailand does not tax pensions, whether from overseas or locally. For a U.S. citizen or resident, any pension is taxable, even if living in Thailand. I don't think that is true for U.K. citizens, though. My understanding is that the U.K. does not tax its citizens if they actually reside outside the country. It would be much simpler if the U.S. were the same! But, then, I wouldn't have any work to do!

[Mobi]

IMHO you are not being very wise to have your lump sum and monthly pension paid directly into a Thai Bank account.

If you are living in Thailand then you will be able to legally open an offshore sterling account with any of the UK major banks, where you can direct your lump sum and pension payments, and any income generated from those funds will not be taxable in the UK.

You can then make periodic TT transfers to your Thai bank account to cover your living expenses, while leaving the bulk of your money offshore in sterling. You can also choose the timing of the transfers to ensure you get the most favourable exchange rates.

It also has many other advantages - such as being more flexible if you decide to move somewhere else in the future and not having the hassle, and expense of having to transfer funds back out of Thailand should that ever become necessary.

In my view, the less the authorities - and the Thais (wife etc) - know about your assets, the better.

No tax is payable on such remittances into Thailand as you have already paid all due taxes.

But there is no guarantee - as with everything in Thailand - that the law may not change in the future, and that is another good reason to only keep enough funds in LOS to cover your living expenses.

There was a time - about 30 odd years ago when farangs who stayed in Thailand longer than 90 days could not leave the country without producing a tax clearance certificate from the tax office. It was a terrible hassle and we all had to troop down to the tax office and pay tax on 'deemed' income - even if we hadn't earned anything.

Lets hope those days never return

[factseeker]

IMHO you are not being very wise to have your lump sum and monthly pension paid directly into a Thai Bank account.

If you are living in Thailand then you will be able to legally open an offshore sterling account with any of the UK major banks, where you can direct your lump sum and pension payments, and any income generated from those funds will not be taxable in the UK.

You can then make periodic TT transfers to your Thai bank account to cover your living expenses, while leaving the bulk of your money offshore in sterling. You can also choose the timing of the transfers to ensure you get the most favourable exchange rates.

It also has many other advantages - such as being more flexible if you decide to move somewhere else in the future and not having the hassle, and expense of having to transfer funds back out of Thailand should that ever become necessary.

In my view, the less the authorities - and the Thais (wife etc) - know about your assets, the better.

No tax is payable on such remittances into Thailand as you have already paid all due taxes.

But there is no guarantee - as with everything in Thailand - that the law may not change in the future, and that is another good reason to only keep enough funds in LOS to cover your living expenses.

There was a time - about 30 odd years ago when farangs who stayed in Thailand longer than 90 days could not leave the country without producing a tax clearance certificate from the tax office. It was a terrible hassle and we all had to troop down to the tax office and pay tax on 'deemed' income - even if we hadn't earned anything.

Lets hope those days never return

Point taken - will sort it out soonest along line you mention.

Rgds.

FS

[Felt 35]

We are regarded as a resident for tax purposes if more than 180 days in Thailand a year. However its unlikely that the Thai Revenue office will come knocking on your door in the near future, but who knows in 2015.

[true blue]

IMHO you are not being very wise to have your lump sum and monthly pension paid directly into a Thai Bank account.

If you are living in Thailand then you will be able to legally open an offshore sterling account with any of the UK major banks, where you can direct your lump sum and pension payments, and any income generated from those funds will not be taxable in the UK.

You can then make periodic TT transfers to your Thai bank account to cover your living expenses, while leaving the bulk of your money offshore in sterling. You can also choose the timing of the transfers to ensure you get the most favourable exchange rates.

It also has many other advantages - such as being more flexible if you decide to move somewhere else in the future and not having the hassle, and expense of having to transfer funds back out of Thailand should that ever become necessary.

In my view, the less the authorities - and the Thais (wife etc) - know about your assets, the better.

No tax is payable on such remittances into Thailand as you have already paid all due taxes.

But there is no guarantee - as with everything in Thailand - that the law may not change in the future, and that is another good reason to only keep enough funds in LOS to cover your living expenses.

There was a time - about 30 odd years ago when farangs who stayed in Thailand longer than 90 days could not leave the country without producing a tax clearance certificate from the tax office. It was a terrible hassle and we all had to troop down to the tax office and pay tax on 'deemed' income - even if we hadn't earned anything.

Lets hope those days never return

propaly something to do with the 90 reporting or leaving the country every 90 days.

[meatboy]

your taxable income in the uk can be pensions and any interest on savings which amounts over the pensioners[65] personal allowance 2012-2013 tax year which is £10,500 all income over this is taxed as per amounts,see taxation tables uk gov.any money you bring into thailand at this time will not be taxed,but whatever you put into thai banks in my case fixed rate and terms interest will be charged at 15%, as long as the interest gained is under 20,000bht you can claim it back.this has already been posted elswhere.what mobi says about putting money offshore i am just about to do lloyds tsb.3years fixed term 4% gross,dont forget the uk tightnd the rules regarding money putt in offshore banks you need to declare the interest earned if you dont and they catch you you will be fined.who is your bank in the uk,try and have your money sent to los once a year,cuts down on trans.charges and you can have it when the exchange rate is favourable.if you need any info and who to contact at lloyds tsb offshore pm me.

[Mobi]

your taxable income in the uk can be pensions and any interest on savings which amounts over the pensioners[65] personal allowance 2012-2013 tax year which is £10,500 all income over this is taxed as per amounts,see taxation tables uk gov.any money you bring into thailand at this time will not be taxed,but whatever you put into thai banks in my case fixed rate and terms interest will be charged at 15%, as long as the interest gained is under 20,000bht you can claim it back.this has already been posted elswhere.what mobi says about putting money offshore i am just about to do lloyds tsb.3years fixed term 4% gross,dont forget the uk tightnd the rules regarding money putt in offshore banks you need to declare the interest earned if you dont and they catch you you will be fined.who is your bank in the uk,try and have your money sent to los once a year,cuts down on trans.charges and you can have it when the exchange rate is favourable.if you need any info and who to contact at lloyds tsb offshore pm me.

There is big difference between tax EVASION (which is illegal) and Tax AVOIDANCE (which is legal)

The UK didn't recently tighten the rules, they simply went after UK residents who were EVADING tax by illegally keeping their money in offshore accounts and not declaring the interest.

UK nationals living in Thailand who do not spend more than 90 days in the UK in a tax year, are usually non-resident for UK tax purposes and can legally hold their funds in offshore accounts and not have to pay any tax on revenue generated from those accounts.

(There are some exceptions to the 90 day rule - such as a pilot who stayed out of the UK for 9 months but still maintained his main residence in England, along with his family, was still held to be resident for tax purposes, but in the main, for most of us, the 90 rule holds good.)

Non residents will still pay tax on any UK generated income, (such as a UK based pension scheme or UK property rental income), but any income generated offshore, (from offshore bank accounts or income from anywhere else in the world that is not part of the UK), will be free of UK tax.

Al the recent hoo hah over so-called tax avoidance schemes by the rich and famous was perpetrated by people who are RESIDENT in the UK and has nothing to do with us, non resident Brits.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Mobi

[meatboy]

your taxable income in the uk can be pensions and any interest on savings which amounts over the pensioners[65] personal allowance 2012-2013 tax year which is £10,500 all income over this is taxed as per amounts,see taxation tables uk gov.any money you bring into thailand at this time will not be taxed,but whatever you put into thai banks in my case fixed rate and terms interest will be charged at 15%, as long as the interest gained is under 20,000bht you can claim it back.this has already been posted elswhere.what mobi says about putting money offshore i am just about to do lloyds tsb.3years fixed term 4% gross,dont forget the uk tightnd the rules regarding money putt in offshore banks you need to declare the interest earned if you dont and they catch you you will be fined.who is your bank in the uk,try and have your money sent to los once a year,cuts down on trans.charges and you can have it when the exchange rate is favourable.if you need any info and who to contact at lloyds tsb offshore pm me.

There is big difference between tax EVASION (which is illegal) and Tax AVOIDANCE (which is legal)

The UK didn't recently tighten the rules, they simply went after UK residents who were EVADING tax by illegally keeping their money in offshore accounts and not declaring the interest.

UK nationals living in Thailand who do not spend more than 90 days in the UK in a tax year, are usually non-resident for UK tax purposes and can legally hold their funds in offshore accounts and not have to pay any tax on revenue generated from those accounts.

(There are some exceptions to the 90 day rule - such as a pilot who stayed out of the UK for 9 months but still maintained his main residence in England, along with his family, was still held to be resident for tax purposes, but in the main, for most of us, the 90 rule holds good.)

Non residents will still pay tax on any UK generated income, (such as a UK based pension scheme or UK property rental income), but any income generated offshore, (from offshore bank accounts or income from anywhere else in the world that is not part of the UK), will be free of UK tax.

Al the recent hoo hah over so-called tax avoidance schemes by the rich and famous was perpetrated by people who are RESIDENT in the UK and has nothing to do with us, non resident Brits.

so what you say is the interest generated offshore by me i dont have to pay no tax to the inland rev.in the uk.thanks mobi that means a few extra cases of cider.wanted to put it the wifes name but lloyds tsb will not let any thai national open an acc.although she has a british passport.

[Darrel]

The UK didn't recently tighten the rules, they simply went after UK residents who were EVADING tax by illegally keeping their money in offshore accounts and not declaring the interest.

UK nationals living in Thailand who do not spend more than 90 days in the UK in a tax year, are usually non-resident for UK tax purposes and can legally hold their funds in offshore accounts and not have to pay any tax on revenue generated from those accounts.

There is nothing illegal about UK residents having deposits offshore. The only possibly illegality would be for them not to declare any interest, or indeed not to be declaring earnings that the money might represent.

[Mobi]

The UK didn't recently tighten the rules, they simply went after UK residents who were EVADING tax by illegally keeping their money in offshore accounts and not declaring the interest.

UK nationals living in Thailand who do not spend more than 90 days in the UK in a tax year, are usually non-resident for UK tax purposes and can legally hold their funds in offshore accounts and not have to pay any tax on revenue generated from those accounts.

There is nothing illegal about UK residents having deposits offshore. The only possibly illegality would be for them not to declare any interest, or indeed not to be declaring earnings that the money might represent.

Yes, you are right; that is what I intended to say, but put it rather badly.

[Mobi]

your taxable income in the uk can be pensions and any interest on savings which amounts over the pensioners[65] personal allowance 2012-2013 tax year which is £10,500 all income over this is taxed as per amounts,see taxation tables uk gov.any money you bring into thailand at this time will not be taxed,but whatever you put into thai banks in my case fixed rate and terms interest will be charged at 15%, as long as the interest gained is under 20,000bht you can claim it back.this has already been posted elswhere.what mobi says about putting money offshore i am just about to do lloyds tsb.3years fixed term 4% gross,dont forget the uk tightnd the rules regarding money putt in offshore banks you need to declare the interest earned if you dont and they catch you you will be fined.who is your bank in the uk,try and have your money sent to los once a year,cuts down on trans.charges and you can have it when the exchange rate is favourable.if you need any info and who to contact at lloyds tsb offshore pm me.

There is big difference between tax EVASION (which is illegal) and Tax AVOIDANCE (which is legal)

The UK didn't recently tighten the rules, they simply went after UK residents who were EVADING tax by illegally keeping their money in offshore accounts and not declaring the interest.

UK nationals living in Thailand who do not spend more than 90 days in the UK in a tax year, are usually non-resident for UK tax purposes and can legally hold their funds in offshore accounts and not have to pay any tax on revenue generated from those accounts.

(There are some exceptions to the 90 day rule - such as a pilot who stayed out of the UK for 9 months but still maintained his main residence in England, along with his family, was still held to be resident for tax purposes, but in the main, for most of us, the 90 rule holds good.)

Non residents will still pay tax on any UK generated income, (such as a UK based pension scheme or UK property rental income), but any income generated offshore, (from offshore bank accounts or income from anywhere else in the world that is not part of the UK), will be free of UK tax.

Al the recent hoo hah over so-called tax avoidance schemes by the rich and famous was perpetrated by people who are RESIDENT in the UK and has nothing to do with us, non resident Brits.

so what you say is the interest generated offshore by me i dont have to pay no tax to the inland rev.in the uk.thanks mobi that means a few extra cases of cider.wanted to put it the wifes name but lloyds tsb will not let any thai national open an acc.although she has a british passport.

If you are submitting an annual tax return, then you would be well advised to declare all income, but ensure that the revenue understand that you are non-resident and that your offshore income is not taxable. You can declare it in the space allocated for 'additional information' rather than include the amounts in the tax return per se.

If you do not submit an annual tax return then there is nothing for you to do except to ensure that you always follow the '90 day rule' and keep a record of it as proof, (passport stamps etc), in case it is ever challenged.

[colinscarr]

Although you can earn interest tax free in an offshore account, eg in Jersey, your UK income is still taxable. How do I know? Because I pay UK income tax on my UK sourced pensions although I reside in Thailand and haven't been back to the UK for 6 years.

There is a double taxation agreement between the UK and Thailand, so your pension income won't be taxed twice. I did investigate this before moving out here in 2005, but after checking with the Thai tax authorities who said I had no tax liability on funds from abroad, I didn't pursue it any further.

I'd suggest having your pension(s) paid in the UK and periodically doing a SWIFT transfer of GBP5000+ to a Thai bank account.

If you have plenty of money, consider investing in the Thai stock market, but get advice! For that, I'd suggest talking to Thaistocks dot com. while at the same time avoiding most local brokers who are more interested in people who are playing the market than in value investors looking for solid medium to long term gains.

Tax on Thai stock dividends in Thailand is 10%, against 20% in the UK. Some Thai dividends are tax free! There is no capital gains tax here when you sell your shares at a profit.