Another Sin Sot Question

[krisb]

Hello to all! quick ?, if I marry my fiancee here in Australia, would I still be obliged to pay sin sot? Would you? and would this change the amount?

[David48]

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Tell me please that you have read the article at the top of this page the same as the 16,000 others who have read it before asking this question?

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[bangkokburning]

No. SS is a Thai tradition, so unless you are being married to a Thai in a Thai ceremony, no (yes, even in OZ - traditions not governed by borders). Having said that - you are marrying a Thai and I can see parents of the Thai woman desiring something. For myself, I would say - hey, costing me heaps to get her to OZ where mom and dad will benefit from her being able to work - so there you go.

Do try a bit of searching prior on this topic.

Edited July 7, 2012 by bangkokburning

[krisb]

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Tell me please that you have read the article at the top of this page the same as the 16,000 others who have read it before asking this question?

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Well I thought I did. So I read it again and still couldnt find particulars. Thanks anyway 'David48'...

[simple1]

"Hello to all! quick ?, if I marry my fiancee here in Australia, would I still be obliged to pay sin sot? Would you? and would this change the amount?"

I lived in Australia for 17 years with my Thai wife, now living in Thailand.

No I would not pay Sin Sot. Why? Very likely that as part of the T&C's of fiancee moving to Australia will be monthly contributions to support her family in Thailand. To avoid any potential conflict this needs to be agreed/sorted out prior to the marriage. If luck is on your side the family will be self supporting, even so no sin Sot payment - need to communicate the message that it is not a component of Australia society. Many Thais moving to Australia will insist on making decisions according to "Thai style"; fair enough, but be aware. Again some unsolicited advice, with wife's social interaction with other Thai women, she will experience never ending gossip & could be an unpleasant experience for her.

EDIT: PM me if you would like to take this conversation offline.

Edited July 8, 2012 by simple1

[krisb]

"Hello to all! quick ?, if I marry my fiancee here in Australia, would I still be obliged to pay sin sot? Would you? and would this change the amount?"

I lived in Australia for 17 years with my Thai wife, now living in Thailand.

No I would not pay Sin Sot. Why? Very likely that as part of the T&C's of fiancee moving to Australia will be monthly contributions to support her family in Thailand. To avoid any potential conflict this needs to be agreed/sorted out prior to the marriage. If luck is on your side the family will be self supporting, even so no sin Sot payment - need to communicate the message that it is not a component of Australia society. Many Thais moving to Australia will insist on making decisions according to "Thai style"; fair enough, but be aware. Again some unsolicited advice, with wife's social interaction with other Thai women, she will experience never ending gossip & could be an unpleasant experience for her.

EDIT: PM me if you would like to take this conversation offline.

Thankyou. Question answered.

[David48]

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Tell me please that you have read the article at the top of this page the same as the 16,000 others who have read it before asking this question?.

Well I thought I did. So I read it again and still couldnt find particulars. Thanks anyway 'David48'...

Hello to all! quick ?, if I marry my fiancee here in Australia, would I still be obliged to pay sin sot? Would you? and would this change the amount?

OK ... in fairness, I'll indicate why I think that you didn't "read" the initial advice in the pinned topic above.

The "advices" are from posts in that Thread and split below for easier comment ...

would I still be obliged to pay sin sot?

"Let me put that another way, if practised as it should be, it is NEVER asked for - and if it is, then something is wrong right from the start - it is gesture, made to the parents in-law by the husband to be entirely of his own free will."

"It is not about money - its about gesture, tradition, commitment and a whole set of values related to you becoming part of that family."

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Edited July 8, 2012 by David48

[David48]

Following on from above ...

if I marry my fiancee

"Sinsod was required and provided at the engagement."

[David48]

Would you?

"There is no "yes or no" or "right or wrong" about it - its practise is very much on a case by case basis"

(my comment) ... it's not about us, it's about you, your intended relationship with your new extended Thai family but, most importantly ... your ladies personal circumstances. Of which you have told us nothing about.

If your lady has 2 children and has been married before and comes from an affluent Family ... is one example.

If however your fiancée is the only daughter in the family which the collective family have sacrificed everything to put her through a quality University and she is currently working in a job where a large proportion of the salary contributes to the family's income is another.

Your premise is that it's about you, the groom ... when, in reality it's about your fiancée’s personal circumstances.

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Edited July 8, 2012 by David48

[David48]

and would this change the amount?

Well this sort of answers your question, but not from sources here ...

"The sin sot negotiations will set the scene for future negotiating.. This is your chance to impress the family, show your intelligence, fairness, backbone, and many other traits. It’s also the time where you could unfortunately show a negative side of yourself you didn’t want shown. Thais respect self-respect and they’ll admire you for handling things with fairness and firmness."

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Edited July 8, 2012 by David48

[David48]

One final observation from me. You seem to trying to distance rather then embrace your new Thai family.

I note that while I was writing this reply, you have selected the (very fair) answer from simple1. I would look closely if that member's personal circumstances are identical to yours.

But do note the differences in situations. The member simple1, now lives in Thailand and contributes a regular stipend,

Very likely that as part of the T&C's of fiancee moving to Australia will be monthly contributions to support her family in Thailand.

yet, from your brief introduction, you do not plan to do so.

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Edited July 8, 2012 by David48

[edwinclapham]

OP, My wife is an Australian/Thai and we were not expected to pay SS at all.

We married overseas, we have never been expected to contribute at all to the family, and we enjoy a very close relationship.

I my wife personally would like to contribute towards any major expense then that is her prerogative, but in general the only thing we willingly pay for are their flights to Australia, hospitality and B & B.

[simple1]

"Hello to all! quick ?, if I marry my fiancee here in Australia, would I still be obliged to pay sin sot? Would you? and would this change the amount?"

I lived in Australia for 17 years with my Thai wife, now living in Thailand.

No I would not pay Sin Sot. Why? Very likely that as part of the T&C's of fiancee moving to Australia will be monthly contributions to support her family in Thailand. To avoid any potential conflict this needs to be agreed/sorted out prior to the marriage. If luck is on your side the family will be self supporting, even so no sin Sot payment - need to communicate the message that it is not a component of Australia society. Many Thais moving to Australia will insist on making decisions according to "Thai style"; fair enough, but be aware. Again some unsolicited advice, with wife's social interaction with other Thai women, she will experience never ending gossip & could be an unpleasant experience for her.

EDIT: PM me if you would like to take this conversation offline.

Thankyou. Question answered.

I believe it's appropriate to clarify that when the close family children were old enough to start work and support their elders (who were very poor) we ceased sending family support monies. Even though the family support payments were not significant, by Australian standards, my wife agreed with me that we had "done the right thing" and needed to focus on saving for our future retirement. Every dollar counts etc... Now the family occasionally buy some fruit as a present for me, that's a really nice expression of thanks for past support.

Edited July 8, 2012 by simple1

[bangkokburning]

Yeah, I mean my fiance gives as the other two B1000 a month. I will contribute B500 a month as well. I fully expect to have to help them at some point in time - OK, that's what children are for and I am very lucky my parents are comfortable. But even though I am marrying in Thailand and even though they are poor, I am not paying SinSot.

As a rule of thumb - I would at least state: I would never, ever pay SS to a woman I met online, in a bar or any such manner even if we had dated 4 yrs prior to marriage. I would never pay SS if the woman lives upcountry (yes ironic perhaps), has no job, parents have no serious job/land holdings. I would never pay SS if I were going to live in the village (yes, despite the friction). There are VERY few situations (none really) that if I was in another persons shoes with another persons money that I would pay SS.

There is a tradition in my country...the bride pays for __________ and __________ and ___________ and even ____. There you go!

[krisb]

One final observation from me. You seem to trying to distance rather then embrace your new Thai family.

I note that while I was writing this reply, you have selected the (very fair) answer from simple1. I would look closely if that member's personal circumstances are identical to yours.

But do note the differences in situations. The member simple1, now lives in Thailand and contributes a regular stipend,

Very likely that as part of the T&C's of fiancee moving to Australia will be monthly contributions to support her family in Thailand.

yet, from your brief introduction, you do not plan to do so.

.

well said!Id like to make clear I absolutely embrace my new Thai Family. I always have. My fiancee has a nice job here now earning better money than average in Australia. she sends money for their living although I paid her 2 sons into Thai army, I bought a farm for her old man (and us) to make some coin also Im building a language centre in the village(first ever) and nearest is 30kms away also made the family home comfortable to western standards by basically rebuilding. Then theres the new honda bikes, sam lor etc so Ive more than embraced it, Ive outdone I think all other falang around our village and for miles, at 37 yrs old and the youngest falang that I know of and only Aussie I know up our way, now thats not bad!

[thuk]

Sin Sod is a tradition and a must have in thai and many Asian cultures wedding. If you marry here in Australia in a western style, then I dont think there is a need but if there is a Thai ceremony invovle then there should be Sin Sod. To us, Sin Sod is even more important than the ring because Sin Sod is the way to pay respect to her parents (you are taken their daughters away from them)

With the amount, you can negotiate to fit in with what you can afford. It is similar to the ring, the bigger the better but if you cant afford then small is generally fine

P.S - Im a Lao girl and we share similar tradition and cultures between Thai/ Lao

[MAJIC]

.

Tell me please that you have read the article at the top of this page the same as the 16,000 others who have read it before asking this question?.

Well I thought I did. So I read it again and still couldnt find particulars. Thanks anyway 'David48'...

Hello to all! quick ?, if I marry my fiancee here in Australia, would I still be obliged to pay sin sot? Would you? and would this change the amount?

OK ... in fairness, I'll indicate why I think that you didn't "read" the initial advice in the pinned topic above.

The "advices" are from posts in that Thread and split below for easier comment ...

would I still be obliged to pay sin sot?

"Let me put that another way, if practised as it should be, it is NEVER asked for - and if it is, then something is wrong right from the start - it is gesture, made to the parents in-law by the husband to be entirely of his own free will."

"It is not about money - its about gesture, tradition, commitment and a whole set of values related to you becoming part of that family."

.

Absolute Nonsense.it is purely and simply about money,the more that can be extracted the better.And you will only be part of the family while you are dishing the money out,on a regular basis.

Sin Sot is just the down payment to a unwanted Debt/Burdon you will never pay off. Liken it to a Car on HP,of which there is no final payment,Sorry to be so blunt,it's just a question of how low you can get the monthly payments down to,as a somewhat saving grace.

[MAJIC]

One final observation from me. You seem to trying to distance rather then embrace your new Thai family.

I note that while I was writing this reply, you have selected the (very fair) answer from simple1. I would look closely if that member's personal circumstances are identical to yours.

But do note the differences in situations. The member simple1, now lives in Thailand and contributes a regular stipend,

Very likely that as part of the T&C's of fiancee moving to Australia will be monthly contributions to support her family in Thailand.

yet, from your brief introduction, you do not plan to do so.

.

well said!Id like to make clear I absolutely embrace my new Thai Family. I always have. My fiancee has a nice job here now earning better money than average in Australia. she sends money for their living although I paid her 2 sons into Thai army, I bought a farm for her old man (and us) to make some coin also Im building a language centre in the village(first ever) and nearest is 30kms away also made the family home comfortable to western standards by basically rebuilding. Then theres the new honda bikes, sam lor etc so Ive more than embraced it, Ive outdone I think all other falang around our village and for miles, at 37 yrs old and the youngest falang that I know of and only Aussie I know up our way, now thats not bad!

Embraced! Outdone! you sound like you could be the first Farang who will go broke for miles around.

[rizla]

One final observation from me. You seem to trying to distance rather then embrace your new Thai family.

I note that while I was writing this reply, you have selected the (very fair) answer from simple1. I would look closely if that member's personal circumstances are identical to yours.

But do note the differences in situations. The member simple1, now lives in Thailand and contributes a regular stipend,

Very likely that as part of the T&C's of fiancee moving to Australia will be monthly contributions to support her family in Thailand.

yet, from your brief introduction, you do not plan to do so.

.

well said!Id like to make clear I absolutely embrace my new Thai Family. I always have. My fiancee has a nice job here now earning better money than average in Australia. she sends money for their living although I paid her 2 sons into Thai army, I bought a farm for her old man (and us) to make some coin also Im building a language centre in the village(first ever) and nearest is 30kms away also made the family home comfortable to western standards by basically rebuilding. Then theres the new honda bikes, sam lor etc so Ive more than embraced it, Ive outdone I think all other falang around our village and for miles, at 37 yrs old and the youngest falang that I know of and only Aussie I know up our way, now thats not bad!

May your God help you...

[TheWalkingMan]

Sin Sod is a tradition and a must have in thai and many Asian cultures wedding. If you marry here in Australia in a western style, then I dont think there is a need but if there is a Thai ceremony invovle then there should be Sin Sod. To us, Sin Sod is even more important than the ring because Sin Sod is the way to pay respect to her parents (you are taken their daughters away from them)

With the amount, you can negotiate to fit in with what you can afford. It is similar to the ring, the bigger the better but if you cant afford then small is generally fine

P.S - Im a Lao girl and we share similar tradition and cultures between Thai/ Lao

Sorry, but sin sod is not a must, it is an option. Some pay and some do not pay.

[thuk]

Sorry, but sin sod is not a must, it is an option. Some pay and some do not pay.

Im speaking from my tradition's point of view. It is a must (have) in our tradition. I never ever in my life see any couple (in my country) married without one, even if it for $100 or $100,000. As I said you give what you can afford and the bribe's family should be happy with the amount. If not they are too greedy

You dont have to follow the tradtion of course, especially if you think you are farang !!!

[edwinclapham]

Sorry, but sin sod is not a must, it is an option. Some pay and some do not pay.

Im speaking from my tradition's point of view. It is a must (have) in our tradition. I never ever in my life see any couple (in my country) married without one, even if it for $100 or $100,000. As I said you give what you can afford and the bribe's family should be happy with the amount. If not they are too greedy

You dont have to follow the tradtion of course, especially if you think you are farang !!!

My culture is for the bride and her family to pick up the tab . I didnt want the predictable wedding in Thailand where sin sod was involved, hence I stressed to all and sundry that my culture was to be heeded When in Rome......

[Scully]

One final observation from me. You seem to trying to distance rather then embrace your new Thai family.

I note that while I was writing this reply, you have selected the (very fair) answer from simple1. I would look closely if that member's personal circumstances are identical to yours.

But do note the differences in situations. The member simple1, now lives in Thailand and contributes a regular stipend,

Very likely that as part of the T&C's of fiancee moving to Australia will be monthly contributions to support her family in Thailand.

yet, from your brief introduction, you do not plan to do so.

.

well said!Id like to make clear I absolutely embrace my new Thai Family. I always have. My fiancee has a nice job here now earning better money than average in Australia. she sends money for their living although I paid her 2 sons into Thai army, I bought a farm for her old man (and us) to make some coin also Im building a language centre in the village(first ever) and nearest is 30kms away also made the family home comfortable to western standards by basically rebuilding. Then theres the new honda bikes, sam lor etc so Ive more than embraced it, Ive outdone I think all other falang around our village and for miles, at 37 yrs old and the youngest falang that I know of and only Aussie I know up our way, now thats not bad!

You have not embraced you new Thai family you have thrown money at them. I truly believe you cannot gain respect by acting like a mug, sorry if this sounds harsh but now you are asking about paying sin sod.

Do you not think you have paid enough to a family that you are not even part of yet ?. No malice meant but I am the same age and believe you need to seriously think about your actions before paying even more of "your" hard earned money.

[TheWalkingMan]

Sorry, but sin sod is not a must, it is an option. Some pay and some do not pay.

Im speaking from my tradition's point of view. It is a must (have) in our tradition. I never ever in my life see any couple (in my country) married without one, even if it for $100 or $100,000. As I said you give what you can afford and the bribe's family should be happy with the amount. If not they are too greedy

You dont have to follow the tradtion of course, especially if you think you are farang !!!

Remember one thing... Just because you have never seen a couple get married without sin sot in your country does not mean it does not happen. I suspect that you do not attend each wedding in your country and I also suspect that you are not on any sin sot reporting list. You should not say what you experience is the same experience as everyone in your country.

[rgs2001uk]

One final observation from me. You seem to trying to distance rather then embrace your new Thai family.

I note that while I was writing this reply, you have selected the (very fair) answer from simple1. I would look closely if that member's personal circumstances are identical to yours.

But do note the differences in situations. The member simple1, now lives in Thailand and contributes a regular stipend,

Very likely that as part of the T&C's of fiancee moving to Australia will be monthly contributions to support her family in Thailand.

yet, from your brief introduction, you do not plan to do so.

.

well said!Id like to make clear I absolutely embrace my new Thai Family. I always have. My fiancee has a nice job here now earning better money than average in Australia. she sends money for their living although I paid her 2 sons into Thai army, I bought a farm for her old man (and us) to make some coin also Im building a language centre in the village(first ever) and nearest is 30kms away also made the family home comfortable to western standards by basically rebuilding. Then theres the new honda bikes, sam lor etc so Ive more than embraced it, Ive outdone I think all other falang around our village and for miles, at 37 yrs old and the youngest falang that I know of and only Aussie I know up our way, now thats not bad!

"I paid her 2 sons" ^^^

Ask the family what happened to the previous sin sot.

Someones having a laugh, and it aint you.

[rgs2001uk]

Sin Sod is a tradition and a must have in thai and many Asian cultures wedding. If you marry here in Australia in a western style, then I dont think there is a need but if there is a Thai ceremony invovle then there should be Sin Sod. To us, Sin Sod is even more important than the ring because Sin Sod is the way to pay respect to her parents (you are taken their daughters away from them)

With the amount, you can negotiate to fit in with what you can afford. It is similar to the ring, the bigger the better but if you cant afford then small is generally fine

P.S - Im a Lao girl and we share similar tradition and cultures between Thai/ Lao

'Sin Sod is a tradition and a must have in thai"

If its a must please explain why I didnt pay it.

If its a must please explain why there was none at the last Thai wedding I atteneded in Bkk.

'Im a Lao girl and we share similar tradition and cultures between Thai/ Lao"

Really?

So in your country what happens to the sin sot, is it just for show and is it returned afterwards?

Is sin sot payable for girls who have been married before?

Are you talking about sharing similair customs between Lao and Issan people?

Would be interested to hear what customs and traditions you share and have in common with lets say, those from the south of Thailand.

[krisb]

Hmm, its interesting to hear all points of view. My wife wasnt married before. He was a lazy sob. Did nothing for the boys, so for me being able to help them do something with their lives its a good feeling. Theres more to life than money. I have been to enough Thai weddings and when I see the gold bowl and the contents just the gossiping from the ladies its like a bunch of cash grabbers. I hate it. Its all about the money. Quite pathetic really. Thats my view anyway.

[krisb]

One final observation from me. You seem to trying to distance rather then embrace your new Thai family.

I note that while I was writing this reply, you have selected the (very fair) answer from simple1. I would look closely if that member's personal circumstances are identical to yours.

But do note the differences in situations. The member simple1, now lives in Thailand and contributes a regular stipend,

Very likely that as part of the T&C's of fiancee moving to Australia will be monthly contributions to support her family in Thailand.

yet, from your brief introduction, you do not plan to do so.

.

well said!Id like to make clear I absolutely embrace my new Thai Family. I always have. My fiancee has a nice job here now earning better money than average in Australia. she sends money for their living although I paid her 2 sons into Thai army, I bought a farm for her old man (and us) to make some coin also Im building a language centre in the village(first ever) and nearest is 30kms away also made the family home comfortable to western standards by basically rebuilding. Then theres the new honda bikes, sam lor etc so Ive more than embraced it, Ive outdone I think all other falang around our village and for miles, at 37 yrs old and the youngest falang that I know of and only Aussie I know up our way, now thats not bad!

Embraced! Outdone! you sound like you could be the first Farang who will go broke for miles around.

haha, nah. Ive spent a small amount of money. I travel there 3 or 4 times a year and its made my staying really comfortable just like home here really. Going broke at 37? nah mate. not even close.

[krisb]

One final observation from me. You seem to trying to distance rather then embrace your new Thai family.

I note that while I was writing this reply, you have selected the (very fair) answer from simple1. I would look closely if that member's personal circumstances are identical to yours.

But do note the differences in situations. The member simple1, now lives in Thailand and contributes a regular stipend,

Very likely that as part of the T&C's of fiancee moving to Australia will be monthly contributions to support her family in Thailand.

yet, from your brief introduction, you do not plan to do so.

.

well said!Id like to make clear I absolutely embrace my new Thai Family. I always have. My fiancee has a nice job here now earning better money than average in Australia. she sends money for their living although I paid her 2 sons into Thai army, I bought a farm for her old man (and us) to make some coin also Im building a language centre in the village(first ever) and nearest is 30kms away also made the family home comfortable to western standards by basically rebuilding. Then theres the new honda bikes, sam lor etc so Ive more than embraced it, Ive outdone I think all other falang around our village and for miles, at 37 yrs old and the youngest falang that I know of and only Aussie I know up our way, now thats not bad!

May your God help you...

he doesnt. thats why i help myself.

[rgs2001uk]

Hmm, its interesting to hear all points of view. My wife wasnt married before. He was a lazy sob. Did nothing for the boys, so for me being able to help them do something with their lives its a good feeling. Theres more to life than money. I have been to enough Thai weddings and when I see the gold bowl and the contents just the gossiping from the ladies its like a bunch of cash grabbers. I hate it. Its all about the money. Quite pathetic really. Thats my view anyway.

I must be missing something here, you say your wife wasnt married before, if thats so where do the two boys come into the picture, are these her children?

If the answer is yes, I will put money on her being married before and sin sot being paid.

Are you sure you dont mean the marriage was never registered at the local amphur office?

Doesnt really matter if it was or not, if the girl had the local wedding, as far as the villagers are concerned she was married, the local wedding has no legal standing in law, what does her id card say, nang or nang sao?