Road Wisdom: Dos And Don’ts Of Driving Pickups

[jbowman1993]

ROAD WISDOM: Dos and don’ts of driving pickups

The Nation

Despite their better image and design, improper use of pickups are to blame for most holiday accidents

The recent milestone of 1 million pickups produced in Thailand showcases their popularity here. Yet pickups were involved in most road accidents over the New Year holiday. Some think there should be more pickups involved in road accidents than passenger cars, due to their higher numbers on the road, while others feel that pickup drivers have a tendency to exceed the speed limit.

With their more appealing design and luxury cabin, today’s pickups are no longer bought solely for hauling purposes. Also, the engines in some pickups are more powerful than those found in some European cars.

This is why not only farmers and merchants, but also people who do not need to haul anything around very often in everyday life buy pickups.

Even though their image and design have undergone significant upgrades, pickups are not built for fast driving like sedans are, because their suspension is more rigid, the better to handle heavy loads.

Another feature that distinguishes pickups from passenger cars is the brake system. Rear drum brakes remain standard for all pickups, while most passenger cars use disc brakes in all four wheels, although pickup manufacturers always play this down.

It is therefore not surprising that some drivers handle their vehicles incorrectly, and so pickups are involved in most accidents during long holidays.

Nutthawut Charoensukkawattana, a leading car racer, says that most pickup owners today do not buy them for commercial use.

“It’s commonly seen at present that other people, such as corporate employees, have shifted to driving pickups,” he said.

He says ads for pickups mislead consumers; for example, 100-horsepower is good for heavy loads but not for fast driving.

“Let’s imagine what would happen with a pickup doing 180 kilometres per hour and not carrying anything.

“It would certainly lose control when braking in an emergency. I’ve been a car racer for almost 20 years, and all racing cars must have proper suspension, choke, spring and camber for excellent handling. Without proper suspension, we know what will happen when a pickup is driven too fast, same as in passenger cars,” he explained.

“Drivers must be aware of their cars’ capacity. Don’t think that 100 horsepower means you can do 200 kph; otherwise, pickups will remain the ‘accident champions’ every holiday,” he said.

Thanadol Rila

The Nation

[Totster]

Just because you can fit 30 people in the back of the pickup, doesn't mean you should.. .

totster

[Thaiboxer]

This guy has a good point. It all comes down to what the vehicle's limitations are. If any vehicle is in proper working order and driven within its limits there should be no problems. We once saw an 18 wheeler swerving in and out of traffic on a busy road; it's as if the driver felt he could drive that rig as you can a normal car. Pickups often don't corner as easily as cars and have a higher center of gravity. Small pickups such as those found here flip over all the time in the States. All vehicles seem to have a "happy speed" at which they feel stable and comfortable. If that speed is exceeded, stability/comfort are reduced drastically.

[sierra01]

I can never understand people that buy a pick up for normal everyday use, why do they want what's basically a souped up tractor? Buying them for what they're designed for, ie hauling whatever from A to B, ok, but for a runabout?

Jbowman spells it out nicely, pick ups aren't cars, they don't handle as well as a car, but still a lot of owners drive them like they were a Ferrari.

[jbowman1993]

I can't take any credit for the article. I just read it in THe Nation.

[rcalsop]

I can't take any credit for the article. I just read it in THe Nation.

I do a lot of driving in BKK and the North ... I see daily accidents often several perday I cannot recall an accident that did not have at least 1 pick up involved and nearly always the open backed pick up . I am aware of the large numbers of pickups on the roads but their accident rate appears to be disprortionate to the number . I always give pickups a wide berth and drive very defensively

when around them , followed by covered back pick ups ie carry boy tops etc they are marginally better , . It always seems to be the pick ups that try the short cut driving the wrong way against traffic on the wrong side of the road following the other Temporary Thais on their Hondas .

Any body else with similar observations ...

Before I bought my first car in Thailand I visited the wreckers yards , paintshops , car repair shops to view the crash horrors and the state of the passenger cells of the vehicles ...they were filled with pickups with vastly distorted passenger cells the drivers doors impossible to open or close and seemingly always masses of blood on the seats .. The saloon cars I viewed had what appeared to be more damaged ( crumple zones that worked ) but in all cases the passenger cell was intact with better operating doors ... The Honda Jazzes I saw looked the worst on the first view but all had a very intact safety cell and I never saw blood stains . I did not buy a pick up this time around ...I previously drove a Nissan Pick Up for 4 years in Bangladesh ...and found it uncomfortable , the kids were travel sick frequently , with out a load in the back it handled like a supermarket trolley and heavy braking slewed the thing all over . My Thai wife previouly was a pick up fan ( vehicle that is ) after sharing the owning and driving experience and seeing the same wrecks as I did, would now not let me buy a pickup unless we had a farm .

[billd766]

quote

jbowman1993 Posted Today, 2006-01-13 10:44:33

ROAD WISDOM: Dos and don’ts of driving pickups

The Nation

Despite their better image and design, improper use of pickups are to blame for most holiday accidents.

Not actually correct as all the reports I have read about the accident rate over the holiday period quote motorcycles had the highest accident rate.

With their more appealing design and luxury cabin, today’s pickups are no longer bought solely for hauling purposes. Also, the engines in some pickups are more powerful than those found in some European cars.

This is why not only farmers and merchants, but also people who do not need to haul anything around very often in everyday life buy pickups.

This is true in my case now but we bought a Ford Ranger 4x4 double cab 4 years ago knowing that we would be building a house and needed to haul materials. Now we use it as the family car, as a pickup still, and a minibus on occasion.

Another feature that distinguishes pickups from passenger cars is the brake system. Rear drum brakes remain standard for all pickups, while most passenger cars use disc brakes in all four wheels, although pickup manufacturers always play this down.

[/color]Correct although most pickups built nowadays have ABS as standard which is more than a lot of cars do.

It is therefore not surprising that some drivers handle their vehicles incorrectly, and so pickups are involved in most accidents during long holidays.

[c Again not true as most of the accidents are motorcycles.

Nutthawut Charoensukkawattana, a leading car racer, says that most pickup owners today do not buy them for commercial use.

“It’s commonly seen at present that other people, such as corporate employees, have shifted to driving pickups,” he said.

He says ads for pickups mislead consumers; for example, 100-horsepower is good for heavy loads but not for fast driving.

“Let’s imagine what would happen with a pickup doing 180 kilometres per hour and not carrying anything.

I can't think of many pickup trucks that will actually do 180kph. the most I ever did in my Ford was 150kph on the expressway but not for long as I was just trying it out and it was not comfortable at that speed.

“It would certainly lose control when braking in an emergency. I’ve been a car racer for almost 20 years, and all racing cars must have proper suspension, choke, spring and camber for excellent handling. Without proper suspension, we know what will happen when a pickup is driven too fast, same as in passenger cars,” he explained.

Very true but why does he mention the choke? As far as I can remember most racing cars are all going the same way around a circuit and are specifically designed to do so as the article states.

“Drivers must be aware of their cars’ capacity. Don’t think that 100 horsepower means you can do 200 kph; otherwise, pickups will remain the ‘accident champions’ every holiday,” he said.

I don't know of any pickup that will do 200kph and I certainly wouldn't want to be in one at that speed.

Thanadol Rila

The Nation

I suspect that the writer is talking about Thai drivers but when I drive to Bangkok at around 110kph on the main highways most of the the vehicles that pass me are not pickups but cars and a lot of Toyota Fortunas and Isuzu MU7s and thing like that. There are a few pickups but they seem to be company vehicles rather than privately owned pickups.

What the writer also fails to mention is who are buying these pickups. They are mainly country people and a car would be of little practical use to them. For the price of a reasonable standard of pickup truck you would probably get something like a Honda Jazz or a lowish model of Toyota, Mazda, Honda etc.

Good city cars but not much use in the countryside where probably 70% of Thai people live.

As a footnote and nothing to do with this post I can't get my head around this colour option on the page.

[Thaiboxer]

What the writer also fails to mention is who are buying these pickups. They are mainly country people and a car would be of little practical use to them. For the price of a reasonable standard of pickup truck you would probably get something like a Honda Jazz or a lowish model of Toyota, Mazda, Honda etc.

Good city cars but not much use in the countryside where probably 70% of Thai people live.

When it comes to how much money you pay for a vehicle vs what you get, I think pickups offer the best value. These diesel trucks run forever if you give them clean air/fuel/oil plus many of them have a stronger body than some of these city cars. With many roads (especially in the countryside) being as bad as they are, a pickup will fair better with its stronger suspension.

[Gary A]

Without a doubt pick up trucks offer the biggest bang for the baht. When I can get a sturdy car with an efficient diesel engine I will buy a car. Cars up country where I live are shaken apart on the poor roads. Pick up trucks up here develop rattles quickly too. Even with a sturdy efficient car I couldn't do without a truck. My Nissan drives quite well at 100 KMH. Near my home I seldom go more than 80 KMH and off the highway 60 is more the norm.

[wilko]

ROAD WISDOM: Dos and don’ts of driving pickups

The Nation

I totally agree....it is quite obvious from a lot of postings around this forum that people have absolutely know idea what they are letting themselves in for when they buy a pickup truck, and the myriad pickup based variations available here in Thailand.

They are "good value" because they are of a simpler construction than a family salon/sedan and do not have the same in-built safety features; they handle differently and need to be driven appropriately.

ABS alone does not make a car intrinsically safer, in fact there is evidence to suggest that it leads to “over confidence” and has been responsible for a different kind of accident as vehicles retain their ability to steer under braking and continue to plough through the surrounding environment in the event of a crash.

Obviously the size and height also give rise to a false sense of safety, (or is that superiority?). This comes from ignorance and assumptions about what might happen in the event of a collision.

One poster mentions that motorcycles are the number one for accidents; I’m sure this is true and the dangers here are obvious, as well as the statistical inevitability of this due to numbers. However I’m sure the intent of the article was to compare 4 wheel vehicles.

[Phil Conners]

They are "good value" because they are of a simpler construction than a family salon/sedan and do not have the same in-built safety features

Nonsense. Pickups are excellent value because they are taxed at a much lower rate than sedans, as simple as that.

Compare a Toyota top-end Vigo pickup with the Fortuner SUV. Exactly same car, only difference is the Fortuner has a closed bed and cost nearly twice the price of the pickup mostly due to different taxation.

The examples of going 180 or 200 km/h in a pickup is also nonsense, no standard diesel pickup will go faster than around 130 km/h even with the biggest 3.0DT engine available.

Edited January 14, 2006 by madsere

[Nam Kao]

80% of the deaths i saw were motocy riders

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Compare a Toyota top-end Vigo pickup with the Fortuner SUV. Exactly same car, only difference is the Fortuner has a closed bed and cost nearly twice the price of the pickup mostly due to different taxation.

The examples of going 180 or 200 km/h in a pickup is also nonsense, no standard diesel pickup will go faster than around 130 km/h even with the biggest 3.0DT engine available.

Commercial vehicles (of which a pick-up is) have less stringent safety requirements and for sure a Vigo will come worse off in an accident than a Fortuner. Look at Vigo an Fortuner side by side - they are not they are not even the same length, different brakes, look inside and that's also different.

As for diesels going no faster than 130KPH. Could you tell all the pick-ups that passed me that their trucks don't go that fast cos they didn't seem to realise they're trucks can go that fast!

Edited January 14, 2006 by Grant

[Phil Conners]

They are of course not EXACTLY equal but the difference is mostly cosmetic and would not justify the almost double price of the Fortuner.

As for being a smart guy, please reread my post: I said STANDARD trucks - as they are delivered from the showroom. They can be tuned in various ways and some people do that, but that's a different story.

[Bung]

They are of course not EXACTLY equal but the difference is mostly cosmetic and would not justify the almost double price of the Fortuner.

As for being a smart guy, please reread my post: I said STANDARD trucks - as they are delivered from the showroom. They can be tuned in various ways and some people do that, but that's a different story.

The latest "STANDARD" pickup's will do 130kmh in a heart beat and I think top out at around 180kmh straight of the showroom floor.

[Plus]

Pickup drivers usually come from lower rungs of social order and that might explain their daredevil attitudes towards safety.

Drum brakes are essential for trucks - they are so much heavier when fully loaded and disks can't handle too much weight, and drums deal better with dirt and dust.

Pickups now come with passenger side airbags, too.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Pickup drivers usually come from lower rungs of social order and that might explain their daredevil attitudes towards safety.

That theory holds water until you end up getting tail-gated by red plate Mercs and Beemers

[Rigger]

They are "good value" because they are of a simpler construction than a family salon/sedan and do not have the same in-built safety features

Nonsense. Pickups are excellent value because they are taxed at a much lower rate than sedans, as simple as that.

Compare a Toyota top-end Vigo pickup with the Fortuner SUV. Exactly same car, only difference is the Fortuner has a closed bed and cost nearly twice the price of the pickup mostly due to different taxation.

The examples of going 180 or 200 km/h in a pickup is also nonsense, no standard diesel pickup will go faster than around 130 km/h even with the biggest 3.0DT engine available.

I must have a special 2.5 turbo auto then as it does 165 km/h and that is with only 102 hp so I have no dout that a vigo will pull 200 km/h with 165 hp

Also I think you will find the fortuner has fully indpendant suspention and the vigo does not

[jbowman1993]

I'm a lower rung of society? And all this time I thought I was part of the "disenfranchised middle class".

[moonoi]

They are "good value" because they are of a simpler construction than a family salon/sedan and do not have the same in-built safety features

Nonsense. Pickups are excellent value because they are taxed at a much lower rate than sedans, as simple as that.

Compare a Toyota top-end Vigo pickup with the Fortuner SUV. Exactly same car, only difference is the Fortuner has a closed bed and cost nearly twice the price of the pickup mostly due to different taxation.

The examples of going 180 or 200 km/h in a pickup is also nonsense, no standard diesel pickup will go faster than around 130 km/h even with the biggest 3.0DT engine available.

Actually what you say is nonsense. Pickups are built to a more simple design. Its basically a ladder frame with a body bolted on top. Yes the structures maybe stronger that a car, but in the event of an accident you don't want strength...you want to be able to dissipate the forces of an accident away from the passenger cabin. Hence cars have crumple zones along with the active safety measures such as ABS.

So loose control of your truck and plow into a wall at 100kph, and it might not be too badly damaged but all the forces involved will be absorbed by your body instead....end result is your dead in an accident that would most likely have been survivable in a car.

Oh and standard top model trucks (triton 3.2 GLS / vigo 3.0)can push 180kph very easily indeed. I think manufacturers should actually fit limiters to them........but then I guess you'd create a whole new after market in derestricting pickups

On a side note I have noticed that the ABS on cars here seems to activate earlier and the braking force is not as strong than cars I've driven in europe and the US. Anyone know if this is due to the road surface or are the brakes just not as good? In both my madza 3 and my old civic rx I can push the brake pedal to the floor quite easily, something that wasn't so easy in my european model cars.

[wilko]

They are "good value" because they are of a simpler construction than a family salon/sedan and do not have the same in-built safety features

Nonsense. Pickups are excellent value because they are taxed at a much lower rate than sedans, as simple as that.

Compare a Toyota top-end Vigo pickup with the Fortuner SUV. Exactly same car, only difference is the Fortuner has a closed bed and cost nearly twice the price of the pickup mostly due to different taxation.

The examples of going 180 or 200 km/h in a pickup is also nonsense, no standard diesel pickup will go faster than around 130 km/h even with the biggest 3.0DT engine available.

I think you should check your facts a little.

I any 3 litre pickup now is easily capable of 150kpm + and many way over that…even the humble 2800 Mitsubishi is quite capable of 150 km, perhaps you’ve got a shoe stuck behind your accelerator pedal!

Yes the Vigo is more or less exactly the same as the Fortuner and there is a tax differential but this does not demonstrate that pickups aren’t cheaper to build than cars; you are comparing like with like i.e. 2 pickups.

Pickups are a chassis based machine and inherently simpler to build than a monocoque vehicle. As for added value; the Fortuner I know has various goodies on it that would cost extra on even the top of the range Vigo. It has a more sophisticated 4wd system than on earlier pickup models, but I don’t know if it’s fitted to the top of the range 4wd Vigo as well. (This is obviously the only model you can compare the Fortuner with).

There are also various other mods to the Fortuner…a shorter wheel base and trailing arm rear suspension, a more expensive body and presumably the interior and enclosed rear, extra rear door and extra fittings etc. cost more as well…in the end you’re looking at a total price difference of about 200k to 400k baht between a fully loaded Vigo and a Fortuner (ß 1,050,000 to ß 1,250,000) e.g. either side of the1 million baht mark. Some of this is tax and the rest is added value. This is not such a great difference.

In the end both cars are essentially pickups and if you want to compare the Fortuner price, compare it with other SUVs; look outside the pickup based vehicles, in particular at the purpose built SUVs such as the Toyota’s Harrier and Prado, the Land Rover Freelander, Honda, and Ford’s Escape. Compare 2 of Ford’s “enclosed” models here – the Escape and the pickup based Everest. The larger Everest is the cheaper car and it is pickup-based.

[wilko]

They are "good value" because they are of a simpler construction than a family salon/sedan and do not have the same in-built safety features

Nonsense. Pickups are excellent value because they are taxed at a much lower rate than sedans, as simple as that.

Compare a Toyota top-end Vigo pickup with the Fortuner SUV. Exactly same car, only difference is the Fortuner has a closed bed and cost nearly twice the price of the pickup mostly due to different taxation.

The examples of going 180 or 200 km/h in a pickup is also nonsense, no standard diesel pickup will go faster than around 130 km/h even with the biggest 3.0DT engine available.

Actually what you say is nonsense. Pickups are built to a more simple design. Its basically a ladder frame with a body bolted on top. Yes the structures maybe stronger that a car, but in the event of an accident you don't want strength...you want to be able to dissipate the forces of an accident away from the passenger cabin. Hence cars have crumple zones along with the active safety measures such as ABS.

So loose control of your truck and plow into a wall at 100kph, and it might not be too badly damaged but all the forces involved will be absorbed by your body instead....end result is your dead in an accident that would most likely have been survivable in a car.

Oh and standard top model trucks (triton 3.2 GLS / vigo 3.0)can push 180kph very easily indeed. I think manufacturers should actually fit limiters to them........but then I guess you'd create a whole new after market in derestricting pickups

On a side note I have noticed that the ABS on cars here seems to activate earlier and the braking force is not as strong than cars I've driven in europe and the US. Anyone know if this is due to the road surface or are the brakes just not as good? In both my madza 3 and my old civic rx I can push the brake pedal to the floor quite easily, something that wasn't so easy in my european model cars.

Yes...totally agree with what you say and have said it before myself....there are a lot of myths about pickups and safety.....I once saw a photo in the Brisbane Courier Mail, (I think) of a Mitsubishi G-Wagon or similar that had been in a serious smash and the whole body (with ocupants) had come away from the chassis and careered off on it's own, with disasterous results.

As for your brakes; have you considered the quality of the linings? Are they manufacturer standard, and if so what are those standards here/ They may be different due to the climate.

I'm a lower rung of society? And all this time I thought I was part of the "disenfranchised middle class".

I guess it takes one to know one...I personally had know idea!

[Phil Conners]

My 2 year old Dmax 3.0DT does 130 km/h max, had it from new and it never went faster than that. AFAIK it does not have any less BHP than any of the alternatives nor have I ever seen any pickup go faster than that. Are you sure you're not just guessing? Or are you suggesting Isuzu somehow put a limiter on my pickup to make it go slower than it should be able to?

Oh, and for all those, "the fortuner has independant suspension in the back" style comments, are you suggesting that should justify the double price? Go check your facts, the cost difference is mainly caused by different taxations for the two types. http://www.thai-la.net/etc/car.htm

Edited January 15, 2006 by madsere

[Gary A]

I had my 3.0 liter Nissan up to 150 and I think it would have gone faster. I was on a deserted stretch of tollway 7 a little south of Bangkok. I let up because There was some traffic ahead of me.

[marshbags]

I was going to get a honda jazz and spotted one off the Nong Khai Udon highway near the police

control.

It was in a very sorry state when i looked at it and no way could the occupants have got out of it safely.

I sought and received advice on something safer for my family.

The Isuzu Dmax Hi lander was the most suited for my requirements.

Don,t you think it,s mostly down to the person behind the wheel that determines most of the

accidents with pick ups and unofficial modifications on them, along with the loading.

Some are higher than a single decker bus and have more passengers, but then that,s not as serious to the police as the wearing of a helmet, plastic of course.

I have seen several newer pickups with varying degrees of damage at the garage just below Lotus

in Udon who get some in an awful state. They get Isuzu and Toyota, most not very old.

However i have not seen much evidence of human damage in them and i feel reassured from this in my own mind and also what i was told.

If we drive at a reasonable speed and always assume most Thai drivers do not recognise the existence of the highway code and drive accordingly, then maybe.......................

our safety improves immensely.

Take care.......... marshbags

[Rigger]

My 2 year old Dmax 3.0DT does 130 km/h max, had it from new and it never went faster than that. AFAIK it does not have any less BHP than any of the alternatives nor have I ever seen any pickup go faster than that. Are you sure you're not just guessing? Or are you suggesting Isuzu somehow put a limiter on my pickup to make it go slower than it should be able to?

Oh, and for all those, "the fortuner has independant suspension in the back" style comments, are you suggesting that should justify the double price? Go check your facts, the cost difference is mainly caused by different taxations for the two types. http://www.thai-la.net/etc/car.htm

I think you may have some sort of problem with you car and your brain

and you should try and get out a bit more

[raro]

They are "good value" because they are of a simpler construction than a family salon/sedan and do not have the same in-built safety features

The examples of going 180 or 200 km/h in a pickup is also nonsense, no standard diesel pickup will go faster than around 130 km/h even with the biggest 3.0DT engine available.

...not quite right, I'm afraid. Had a "race" the other day with a Toyota 3.0 pick-up. I drive a Honda Jazz Vtec and that Pick-up just pulled away, starting at 120 km/h. I finally overtook him going 180 myself (the absolute max the Jazz does....) and he was at some 170 I'd reckon. Yes, that was not really mature, but what the heck....

[moonoi]

I was going to get a honda jazz and spotted one off the Nong Khai Udon highway near the police

control.

It was in a very sorry state when i looked at it and no way could the occupants have got out of it safely.

I sought and received advice on something safer for my family.

The Isuzu Dmax Hi lander was the most suited for my requirements.

Don,t you think it,s mostly down to the person behind the wheel that determines most of the

accidents with pick ups and unofficial modifications on them, along with the loading.

Some are higher than a single decker bus and have more passengers, but then that,s not as serious to the police as the wearing of a helmet, plastic of course.

I have seen several newer pickups with varying degrees of damage at the garage just below Lotus

in Udon who get some in an awful state. They get Isuzu and Toyota, most not very old.

However i have not seen much evidence of human damage in them and i feel reassured from this in my own mind and also what i was told.

If we drive at a reasonable speed and always assume most Thai drivers do not recognise the existence of the highway code and drive accordingly, then maybe.......................

our safety improves immensely.

Take care.......... marshbags

Again I think you'll find the information you've been advised is not correct. A pickup is probably one of the most dangerous vehicles to use just for your family (ie if your not using it for its designed purpose). Theres no way I would use a pickup as my main form of family transport. If I lived out in the sticks then I would buy a 4x4 SUV (not anything with leaf springs at the rear mind). Fine if your actually using the pickup shifting loads, but as previously you were considering a Jazz I doubt that you are.

Just because the pickup is structurally intact does not mean the occupants survived, in fact its precisely the "Strength" of a pickup that makes them more dangerous than cars in an accident and also why people think they are safer. You'd also be suprised at how deformed the structure of a car can get and the occupents still survive, the point is to make sure you survive the impact (and not to make sure the vehicle is still drivable afterwards!).

Just to reinforce my point in a pickup, as they have very little in the way of crumple zones (this is due to the construction, body ontop of frame as opposed to a monocoque used by most cars) the forces of the impact will be transmitted through your body instead of being absorbed by the vehicle. So your insides get rammed against the inside of your ribcage at a force not much less than what the pickup got when it hit the wall. And thats what kills you. And thats why most accidents in which people die here in thailand are in pickups. But don't worry, your safe because its "Strong" right

Still at the end of the day the best thing to do is as you say drive carefully and try not to hit anything or if you do, don't hit it hard

Edited January 15, 2006 by moonoi

[Rigger]

They are "good value" because they are of a simpler construction than a family salon/sedan and do not have the same in-built safety features

The examples of going 180 or 200 km/h in a pickup is also nonsense, no standard diesel pickup will go faster than around 130 km/h even with the biggest 3.0DT engine available.

...not quite right, I'm afraid. Had a "race" the other day with a Toyota 3.0 pick-up. I drive a Honda Jazz Vtec and that Pick-up just pulled away, starting at 120 km/h. I finally overtook him going 180 myself (the absolute max the Jazz does....) and he was at some 170 I'd reckon. Yes, that was not really mature, but what the heck....

I am sure you are not the only one that does this

I love a good drag of the lights with that rush only a diesel engine can give you

[Cheeky Farang]

Well according to the local police my DMax Highlander can do 160kmh, well that’s what they said anyway when they demanded 200 baht