Chavalit: Govt Restraint, Court Prudence Needed

[Buchholz]

Well this government is clearly, definitively aligned with a group showing serial LM infractions and comprising those who sidle right up to the line of saying as much, but don't dare only because of the LM laws. This could be a a strong indication of their actual feelings on the subject.

While Yingluck has publicly stated the government doesn't intend to change the LM law, there are MP's within her Party that clearly don't sing from the same song sheet.

Anti-Article 112 activists rally at Royal Plaza

Pheu Thai MP Prasit Chaisrisa came to the rally to express his moral support for the demonstrators.

There's a number of Pheu Thai Party Red Shirt MP's who also have indicated the same.

The so-called Campaign Committee for Amendment of Article 112 group is publicly aligned with the Red Shirts, who, furthermore, are a crucial part the Pheu Thai Party.

How much turmoil is there within the Party with these various factions and their avowed (publicly, anyway) polar opposite stances?

.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Buchholz

[whybother]

not least because the PTP has made a number of explicit statements

Ah yes. And now we are into realms of 'believing the words of a gang of out-on-bail criminals, headed by a fugitive criminal'.

You can believe PTP's words if you like.

I have a condo you might like to buy, it has a 'built in sunroof with a rain-collection system'.

Given that they have said explicitly that they won't change the LM laws, and they have said explicitly that they won't touch the areas in the Constitution that relate to the LM laws, and they haven't talked about or suggested any changes to the LM laws, that they have no intention (for the forseeable future) to change the LM laws.

Abhisit HAS talked about LM law reform, and PTP hasn't even used that to suggest reform. It's simply not on their agenda.

[hellodolly]

One would think said judges would know procedure before making a judgement, If they had gone through due process then there would not be is predicament now

To borrow your phrasing, if PTP had known about parliamentary 'procedure', gone through the 'due process' of debate, and not tried to rush through the fractious reconciliation bill without even allegedly reading the bill first themselves, then the ensuing 'predicament' would not have arisen in the first place.

There is only one reason we have this constitutional dilemma today and that is PTP believe their hamfisted attempts to free Thaksin and to alter LM, are somehow their immediate democratic right following their election.

The Constitution Court is not the problem in this picture. The problem is the PTP's undemocratic reconciliation bills themselves, and PTP's acts of human-rights abuse and privacy-law crimes that accompanied PTP's attempts to push through immensely unpopular and undemocratic bills at any cost.

Yunla

You are wasting your breath talking to red shirt schooled graduates.

It is the courts job to stop dictatorships and rule on legality of issues.

this was one of those times when the PTs drive towards dictatorship could not go through normal channels as the wannabe dictator would not allow it and they had to take things in to there own hands.

AS far as I am concerned say what they want about Chavalit he is rite there will be a lot of bad feeling and unrest no mater what the courts say. Unfortunately the side pushing for dictatorship has a military willing to kill and burn Bangkok down. No one is worried about getting shot by a yellow shirt or getting their town burned down by a yellow shirt. It is the graduates of the red shirt schools of democracy that keeps ever one on edge.

[hellodolly]

Restraints not required, simple incarceration would do.

With all due respect Oz please watch what you say.

The red shirt schools did not teach spelling and they might think you meant incineration. They have experience at that.

Edited July 9, 2012 by hellodolly

[hellodolly]

...Chavalit said he disagreed with allegations that the charter amendments would violate Article 68 of the Constitution as the amendments would be tantamount to efforts to topple the democratic system.

He said Thailand has had no democracy so far - so the amendments could not be regarded as efforts to topple the democratic system.

Chavalit said if the court made a wrong ruling, it would be regarded as a tool of the dictators. Although he disagreed with complainants who opposed amendments, he said the government should heed polls showing deliberation on the amendments and reconciliation bills should be delayed....

Yes both sides of the fence and his fuzzy butt in the middle to see which way he needs to fall.

He admits that Thailand "Has No Democracy So Far".

But is this acknowledging the lack of actual democratic functions

caused by corruption on a massive scale,

or is he trying to slip one by meaning ambiguously that

'there is no constitutional Deomcracy at all', or that 'what is there is a sham'?

Who are those 'dictators' he is referring too? this could be construed two ways,

and one is clearly LM land the other fair play.

...he said the government should heed polls showing deliberation on the amendments and reconciliation bills should be delayed....

He is also quite rightly saying,

you may have had this as one of many vote getting planks last summer,

but now the tide of polls shows this is clearly not wanted under the current situation and methods.

Fence sitting, teetering with the winds of chance.

Wondering which way he will fall this time.

Please do not use poles to justify your thoughts.

The polls are so phoney that it should be against the law to have them. If you want to believe that Thailand has a average height above sea level of 5,000 meters they can get you a poll that agrees with you.

To use a poll is actually a way to weaken a argument. You have great ideas and input please do not insult them with a poll says.

I mean you no disrespect with this it is just my opinion on the validity of poles.

[jayboy]

While Yingluck has publicly stated the government doesn't intend to change the LM law, there are MP's within her Party that clearly don't sing from the same song sheet.

So what? It would be surprising if there were not since there is much support for LM reform among many educated people of all parties.As Whybother has pointed out Abhisit was in the forefront of calling for reform.For bears of little brain (the reactionary bigots are beyond help) it's probably necessary to point out that a sympathy for LM reform is an entirely different thing from questioning, indeed revering, the constitutional monarchy.Anyway if one could sum up the national feeling I would say the consensus is that while LM reform probably makes sense, it is not a priority and can wait some years.

[metisdead]

A post with reference to HM the King have been removed. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family.

[carra]

One would think said judges would know procedure before making a judgement, If they had gone through due process then there would not be is predicament now

To borrow your phrasing, if PTP had known about parliamentary 'procedure', gone through the 'due process' of debate, and not tried to rush through the fractious reconciliation bill without even allegedly reading the bill first themselves, then the ensuing 'predicament' would not have arisen in the first place.

There is only one reason we have this constitutional dilemma today and that is PTP believe their hamfisted attempts to free Thaksin and to alter LM, are somehow their immediate democratic right following their election.

The Constitution Court is not the problem in this picture. The problem is the PTP's undemocratic reconciliation bills themselves, and PTP's acts of human-rights abuse and privacy-law crimes that accompanied PTP's attempts to push through immensely unpopular and undemocratic bills at any cost.

Yunla

You are wasting your breath talking to red shirt schooled graduates.

It is the courts job to stop dictatorships and rule on legality of issues.

this was one of those times when the PTs drive towards dictatorship could not go through normal channels as the wannabe dictator would not allow it and they had to take things in to there own hands.

AS far as I am concerned say what they want about Chavalit he is rite there will be a lot of bad feeling and unrest no mater what the courts say. Unfortunately the side pushing for dictatorship has a military willing to kill and burn Bangkok down. No one is worried about getting shot by a yellow shirt or getting their town burned down by a yellow shirt. It is the graduates of the red shirt schools of democracy that keeps ever one on edge.

Ah yes, i forgot things are only legal when the yellows or dems do them, heaven forbid the PTP or the reds follow the laws and procedures, there is apoplexy on the the forum still trying to make out they are performing illegal acts,

you couldn't make it up, oh wait, you did

[Yunla]

Given that they have said explicitly that they won't change the LM laws, and they have said explicitly that they won't touch the areas in the Constitution that relate to the LM laws, and they haven't talked about or suggested any changes to the LM laws, that they have no intention (for the forseeable future) to change the LM laws.

Abhisit HAS talked about LM law reform, and PTP hasn't even used that to suggest reform. It's simply not on their agenda.

As you know communism is based entirely on the removal of all elites including the 'highest elites' in society. You will know that PTP and redmob have spoken publicly about not only removing all elites but actually "death to the elites" from a 2010 stage speech. They also gave speeches which mirrored Mao's agrarian populism, peasant revolution speeches, central to which is the removal of all people at the top of society except for senior Party members.

If you read back through some back-issues of the UDD Magazine, you will see pictures of Lenin carried ontop of a wave of red. Also "Communist Thailand" was the title of a UDD article in this magazine. I had a link to an online copy of this but the article has been removed and the link is broken. Hardly a surprise given how hard redmob on forums try to play down the Maoist stuff.

Therdpoum Chaidee, a former communist and longtime colleague of current UDD protest leaders, as well as a member of parliament under Thaksin’s now defunct Thai Rak Thai party. He is a walking talking revolutionary Marxist, he speaks of exterminating the elites all of them including the highest levels.

Here's some nice little sample lines from your "pro-monarchy pro-democracy" long-time UDD ally Chaidee ;

"The revolution walks on two legs. One political leg and one army leg. Violence is the essential ingredient in the mix. That is what we were taught."

"The tactic is to keep saying that you are a peace-loving people. The many factions folded into the united front [uDD] organization are not told what the real strategy is because they might not agree and they might not act their part convincingly."

"Many of them are now absolutely convinced that Thaksin was the best leader in Thai history, that he was a kind and generous man who holds the solution to all their problems. They don't need a program - they just need a new Thai state with Thaksin in charge"

And my personal favourite from your 'not-communist-at-all' UDD and Thaksin ally;

"Old communists know that when it comes to revolution, ignorance is much more powerful than knowledge."

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LE13Ae01.html

Edited July 9, 2012 by Yunla

[Buchholz]

While Yingluck has publicly stated the government doesn't intend to change the LM law, there are MP's within her Party that clearly don't sing from the same song sheet.

So what?

So the Pheu Thai Party is sending conflicting messages... as I posted.

.

[jayboy]

So the Pheu Thai Party is sending conflicting messages... as I posted.

.

Wrong again I'm afraid.The PTP position on the matter is perfectly clear.Of course within PTP there are individuals who hold different views just as there are in the Democrat party, but the official line is " no change".

[Buchholz]

So the Pheu Thai Party is sending conflicting messages... as I posted.

Wrong again I'm afraid.The PTP position on the matter is perfectly clear.Of course within PTP there are individuals who hold different views just as there are in the Democrat party, but the official line is " no change".

sending conflicting messages = "hold different views" (and voicing them in messages)

.

[jayboy]

sending conflicting messages = "hold different views" (and voicing them in messages)

.

Now you are just embarrassing yourself.Most people understand the meaning of a political party taking an official line even if there are minority dissenting views.

[Orac]

Given that they have said explicitly that they won't change the LM laws, and they have said explicitly that they won't touch the areas in the Constitution that relate to the LM laws, and they haven't talked about or suggested any changes to the LM laws, that they have no intention (for the forseeable future) to change the LM laws.

Abhisit HAS talked about LM law reform, and PTP hasn't even used that to suggest reform. It's simply not on their agenda.

As you know communism is based entirely on the removal of all elites including the 'highest elites' in society. You will know that PTP and redmob have spoken publicly about not only removing all elites but actually "death to the elites" from a 2010 stage speech. They also gave speeches which mirrored Mao's agrarian populism, peasant revolution speeches, central to which is the removal of all people at the top of society except for senior Party members.

If you read back through some back-issues of the UDD Magazine, you will see pictures of Lenin carried ontop of a wave of red. Also "Communist Thailand" was the title of a UDD article in this magazine. I had a link to an online copy of this but the article has been removed and the link is broken. Hardly a surprise given how hard redmob on forums try to play down the Maoist stuff.

Therdpoum Chaidee, a former communist and longtime colleague of current UDD protest leaders, as well as a member of parliament under Thaksin’s now defunct Thai Rak Thai party. He is a walking talking revolutionary Marxist, he speaks of exterminating the elites all of them including the highest levels.

Here's some nice little sample lines from your "pro-monarchy pro-democracy" long-time UDD ally Chaidee ;

"The revolution walks on two legs. One political leg and one army leg. Violence is the essential ingredient in the mix. That is what we were taught."

"The tactic is to keep saying that you are a peace-loving people. The many factions folded into the united front [uDD] organization are not told what the real strategy is because they might not agree and they might not act their part convincingly."

"Many of them are now absolutely convinced that Thaksin was the best leader in Thai history, that he was a kind and generous man who holds the solution to all their problems. They don't need a program - they just need a new Thai state with Thaksin in charge"

And my personal favourite from your 'not-communist-at-all' UDD and Thaksin ally;

"Old communists know that when it comes to revolution, ignorance is much more powerful than knowledge."

http://www.atimes.co...a/LE13Ae01.html

You seem to have missed off a bit of information about this "UDD and Thaksin ally"

http://asiancorrespondent.com/33095/who-is-therdpoum-chaidee/

[Thai at Heart]

All very possible, whilst reforming lese majeste. Someone a while back requested that people stop abusing the law, and that went in one ear and out the other, we have people being locked up for various offences quite regularly depending on the wind of the day, and yet there are many perfectly functioning constitutional democracies that have survived for hundreds of years without such a draconian law. I think the Thai monarchy will survive more than perfectly even if the law is reformed. But to not be able to propose it for change, is judicial over-reach.

I don't wish for there to be violence either, but I don't see how proposing to reform this law which is debated among the academic sets of Thailand freely, is going to suddenly plunge Thailand into crisis. Its a law, laws get debated and changed all the time.

I see your point and I agree with some parts of your post entirely.

My problem with the 'unity bill' bundle itself, is primarily freedom-for-Thaksin related, my problem with the accompanying constitutional issues and charter rewrite is that the people who are pressuring to do this, PTP, are fugitive criminals and out-on-bail criminals, who have already shown publicly their contempt for law, for parliamentary procedure, for office of house speaker, have committed conflict-of-interest/ethics violations etc. PTP have violated the most basic fundamental human-rights of people who disagree with them or stand in their way. PTP are so very untrustworthy in every single sense, and only trustworthy people should be allowed to go anywhere near a nation's constitution.

I think to give constitutional reform power of any kind to this group of people is extremely dangerous.

All possible, but the reality is that they have a majority in the parliament, there is a system that will eventually have to be followed concerning how the changes are laid out, etc etc, and to "not" give them power to change the constitution because it is "dangerous" means that to all intents and purposes, the court is simply able to pick and choose the rights of the parliament on a whim.

Either Thailand gets on with moving forward, accepting some changes to the status quo, allowing the system to grow, or it continues to stutter from government to coup over and over on the forethought of a threat to something that may or may not ever come to reality. Having courts deciding things on the basis that the sky is falling is asinine.

[hellodolly]

One would think said judges would know procedure before making a judgement, If they had gone through due process then there would not be is predicament now

To borrow your phrasing, if PTP had known about parliamentary 'procedure', gone through the 'due process' of debate, and not tried to rush through the fractious reconciliation bill without even allegedly reading the bill first themselves, then the ensuing 'predicament' would not have arisen in the first place.

There is only one reason we have this constitutional dilemma today and that is PTP believe their hamfisted attempts to free Thaksin and to alter LM, are somehow their immediate democratic right following their election.

The Constitution Court is not the problem in this picture. The problem is the PTP's undemocratic reconciliation bills themselves, and PTP's acts of human-rights abuse and privacy-law crimes that accompanied PTP's attempts to push through immensely unpopular and undemocratic bills at any cost.

Yunla

You are wasting your breath talking to red shirt schooled graduates.

It is the courts job to stop dictatorships and rule on legality of issues.

this was one of those times when the PTs drive towards dictatorship could not go through normal channels as the wannabe dictator would not allow it and they had to take things in to there own hands.

AS far as I am concerned say what they want about Chavalit he is rite there will be a lot of bad feeling and unrest no mater what the courts say. Unfortunately the side pushing for dictatorship has a military willing to kill and burn Bangkok down. No one is worried about getting shot by a yellow shirt or getting their town burned down by a yellow shirt. It is the graduates of the red shirt schools of democracy that keeps ever one on edge.

Ah yes, i forgot things are only legal when the yellows or dems do them, heaven forbid the PTP or the reds follow the laws and procedures, there is apoplexy on the the forum still trying to make out they are performing illegal acts,

you couldn't make it up, oh wait, you did

education Red shirt graduate.

I rest my case.

[khunken]

sending conflicting messages = "hold different views" (and voicing them in messages)

.

Now you are just embarrassing yourself.Most people understand the meaning of a political party taking an official line even if there are minority dissenting views.

Actually it's you who are embarrassing yourself by believing what PTP say. Personally, if they had any balls, they would tackle the LM laws & stop frivolous use of them. Amending that law would benefit Thailand more than their Thaksin amnesty push.

[OzMick]

sending conflicting messages = "hold different views" (and voicing them in messages)

.

Now you are just embarrassing yourself.Most people understand the meaning of a political party taking an official line even if there are minority dissenting views.

The dissenting view could well be a majority - unless you believe that PTP policy is decided by a majority of its members rather than a single non-member.

[Thai at Heart]

sending conflicting messages = "hold different views" (and voicing them in messages)

.

Now you are just embarrassing yourself.Most people understand the meaning of a political party taking an official line even if there are minority dissenting views.

Actually it's you who are embarrassing yourself by believing what PTP say. Personally, if they had any balls, they would tackle the LM laws & stop frivolous use of them. Amending that law would benefit Thailand more than their Thaksin amnesty push.

Actually that would be the perfect outcome.

[Buchholz]

sending conflicting messages = "hold different views" (and voicing them in messages)

.

Now you are just embarrassing yourself.Most people understand the meaning of a political party taking an official line even if there are minority dissenting views.

The embarrassment is all yours. You're attacking to just be attacking. My first post on the issue acknowledged what the official line was.

I simply stated that in addition to the official line that there are those within the Party whose stated views conflict with the stated official line and have stated the opposite AKA "hold different views."

Even when we are in agreement on something you still mislabel my same point as "wrong again" to simply be contrary and initiate yet another of your patented bickering sessions.

.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Buchholz

[Skywalker69]

_{Prudence and PTP doesen´t walk hand in hand.}

[Moruya]

So the Pheu Thai Party is sending conflicting messages... as I posted.

.

Wrong again I'm afraid.The PTP position on the matter is perfectly clear.Of course within PTP there are individuals who hold different views just as there are in the Democrat party, but the official line is " no change".

That's one of the longest oxymorons I've ever read!

[Skywalker69]

So the Pheu Thai Party is sending conflicting messages... as I posted.

.

Wrong again I'm afraid.The PTP position on the matter is perfectly clear.Of course within PTP there are individuals who hold different views just as there are in the Democrat party, but the official line is " no change".

That's one of the longest oxymorons I've ever read!

+1

[animatic]

...Chavalit said he disagreed with allegations that the charter amendments would violate Article 68 of the Constitution as the amendments would be tantamount to efforts to topple the democratic system.

He said Thailand has had no democracy so far - so the amendments could not be regarded as efforts to topple the democratic system.

Chavalit said if the court made a wrong ruling, it would be regarded as a tool of the dictators. Although he disagreed with complainants who opposed amendments, he said the government should heed polls showing deliberation on the amendments and reconciliation bills should be delayed....

Yes both sides of the fence and his fuzzy butt in the middle to see which way he needs to fall.

He admits that Thailand "Has No Democracy So Far".

But is this acknowledging the lack of actual democratic functions

caused by corruption on a massive scale,

or is he trying to slip one by meaning ambiguously that

'there is no constitutional Deomcracy at all', or that 'what is there is a sham'?

Who are those 'dictators' he is referring too? this could be construed two ways,

and one is clearly LM land the other fair play.

...he said the government should heed polls showing deliberation on the amendments and reconciliation bills should be delayed....

He is also quite rightly saying,

you may have had this as one of many vote getting planks last summer,

but now the tide of polls shows this is clearly not wanted under the current situation and methods.

Fence sitting, teetering with the winds of chance.

Wondering which way he will fall this time.

Please do not use poles to justify your thoughts.

The polls are so phoney that it should be against the law to have them. If you want to believe that Thailand has a average height above sea level of 5,000 meters they can get you a poll that agrees with you.

To use a poll is actually a way to weaken a argument. You have great ideas and input please do not insult them with a poll says.

I mean you no disrespect with this it is just my opinion on the validity of poles.

i was referring to Chavalit's referring to some post election polls.

'Would think by now you would be well aware I am very likely to state regularly that the polls here very poorly constructed, or obviously biased to a result.

Edited July 9, 2012 by animatic

[Moruya]

i was referring to Chavalit's referring to some post election polls.

'Would think by now you would be well aware I am very likely to state regularly that the polls here very poorly constructed, or obviously biased to a result.

The poles should stick to sausage making and vodka.

Had a Polish teacher at school, not a particularly likable man. He had the widest set of jowls I've ever seen on a living mammal. Beyond hippoesque. He had surgery to remove some troublesome wisdom teeth and he returned to school with massive swelling. A lower mandible that you could park an A380 on for sure.

[Crushdepth]

Chavalit said he had sympathy for judges because the country could stand to lose, no matter what ruling the judges made. He said conflict and violence could flare up after the ruling and a lot of people would be affected.

Defending democratic laws, the authority of the Supreme Court and the higher powers it represents, and maintaining state integrity should be the only thing on the Court's mind, and not this 'tiptoeing on eggshells' situation where some judges are living in fear of attack in their own homes and others are being told to obey the PTP regime or face blood in the streets. Democratic laws have to be protected and upheld, any serious contentious changes proposed must be debated at length in parliament, analysed in referendum, and only agreed on by consensus.

Pushing through bills that are totally incendiary is the action of a desperate or insane leadership, one that does not care about the consequences at street-level. Pressure on the Court to not disagree with the government is only to compound the earlier political recklessness. The Court's true loyalties should always lie with Thailand's stable and democratic future and not with the wishes of PTP or the promised retribution by the redmob.

One would think said judges would know procedure before making a judgement, If they had gone through due process then there would not be this predicament now

I presume the judiciary has a far better understanding of what constitutes due process than you do.

[tlansford]

Chavalit said he had sympathy for judges because the country could stand to lose, no matter what ruling the judges made. He said conflict and violence could flare up after the ruling and a lot of people would be affected.

Defending democratic laws, the authority of the Supreme Court and the higher powers it represents, and maintaining state integrity should be the only thing on the Court's mind, and not this 'tiptoeing on eggshells' situation where some judges are living in fear of attack in their own homes and others are being told to obey the PTP regime or face blood in the streets. Democratic laws have to be protected and upheld, any serious contentious changes proposed must be debated at length in parliament, analysed in referendum, and only agreed on by consensus.

Pushing through bills that are totally incendiary is the action of a desperate or insane leadership, one that does not care about the consequences at street-level. Pressure on the Court to not disagree with the government is only to compound the earlier political recklessness. The Court's true loyalties should always lie with Thailand's stable and democratic future and not with the wishes of PTP or the promised retribution by the redmob.

One would think said judges would know procedure before making a judgment, If they had gone through due process then there would not be this predicament now

The court thrust themselves into the middle of a parliamentary debate.

If they should now find themselves somehow in a tight spot, ... well that's a joke ...

[tlansford]

PTP believe their hamfisted attempts to free Thaksin and to alter LM, are somehow their democratic right following their election.

The issue of PTP's actions on Thaksin's possible return is obviously for discussion.

However your suggestion that PTP has proposed to alter LM legislation is a terminological inexactitude (ie a lie).Indeed the PTP leadership has gone out of its way to make it clear that is not on the agenda.Whether it should be amended is a matter on which many will have different views.

However although your observation was inaccurate and misleading, it does have a wider significance in that in Thai politics some - usually when they are losing the argument on another issue - have the tendency to throw the LM issue into the pot simply to stir up emotions on a sensitive issue and specifically to throw mud at political opponents in the hope some of it will stick.

Agreed - different views. I'd like to see the LM axed completely and in the aftermath Thailand will see that nothing horrible happens.

And the PTP has never proposed changing it and has repeatedly said it will not change the LM law.

[tlansford]

Given that they have said explicitly that they won't change the LM laws, and they have said explicitly that they won't touch the areas in the Constitution that relate to the LM laws, and they haven't talked about or suggested any changes to the LM laws, that they have no intention (for the forseeable future) to change the LM laws.

Abhisit HAS talked about LM law reform, and PTP hasn't even used that to suggest reform. It's simply not on their agenda.

As you know communism is based entirely on the removal of all elites including the 'highest elites' in society. You will know that PTP and redmob have spoken publicly about not only removing all elites but actually "death to the elites" from a 2010 stage speech. They also gave speeches which mirrored Mao's agrarian populism, peasant revolution speeches, central to which is the removal of all people at the top of society except for senior Party members.

If you read back through some back-issues of the UDD Magazine, you will see pictures of Lenin carried ontop of a wave of red. Also "Communist Thailand" was the title of a UDD article in this magazine. I had a link to an online copy of this but the article has been removed and the link is broken. Hardly a surprise given how hard redmob on forums try to play down the Maoist stuff.

Therdpoum Chaidee, a former communist and longtime colleague of current UDD protest leaders, as well as a member of parliament under Thaksin’s now defunct Thai Rak Thai party. He is a walking talking revolutionary Marxist, he speaks of exterminating the elites all of them including the highest levels.

Here's some nice little sample lines from your "pro-monarchy pro-democracy" long-time UDD ally Chaidee ;

"The revolution walks on two legs. One political leg and one army leg. Violence is the essential ingredient in the mix. That is what we were taught."

"The tactic is to keep saying that you are a peace-loving people. The many factions folded into the united front [uDD] organization are not told what the real strategy is because they might not agree and they might not act their part convincingly."

"Many of them are now absolutely convinced that Thaksin was the best leader in Thai history, that he was a kind and generous man who holds the solution to all their problems. They don't need a program - they just need a new Thai state with Thaksin in charge"

And my personal favourite from your 'not-communist-at-all' UDD and Thaksin ally;

"Old communists know that when it comes to revolution, ignorance is much more powerful than knowledge."

http://www.atimes.co...a/LE13Ae01.html

You seem to have missed off a bit of information about this "UDD and Thaksin ally"

http://asiancorrespo...rdpoum-chaidee/

"ooops"

[rubl]

In a statement, Chavalit also called on the Constitution Court to be prudent in its ruling in the case against charter amendment, saying a wrong judgement could lead to political crisis.

This statement from Gen. Chavalit makes me remember a 2001 court decision on k. Thaksin's honest mistake 'how could we find him guilty with him just winning an election' (apart from the pressure from 'activists'). Somehow I would have thought a court to base it's judgements on law, jurisprudence and the like, not on 'being prudent' or even on considering what some may like.