Are There Any Experienced Gym Goers Out There?

[smokie36]

I like the way i feel after doing a good weights session. You feel king of the hill when you have done a hard session.

Simalarly i love the buzz you get after a tough squash game.

I have also done Bikram yoga classes and you feel absolutely sensational after one of these sessions.

You feel differently after each of these exercise activities but the main thing is you feel really good on a natural high.

My biggest motivator is my own sef esteem. I dont want to get lazy and fat. And most importantly I dont want to be in the hands of doctors and on a pill merry go round because i was too lazy or slack to take care of my own health.

After I've blasted my body to the extreme I feel exhausted. I leave all my energy in the gym.

I certainly don't suffer from exercise "natural highs" after workouts. I go home to relax, eat and recover.

I couldn't do that. The "natural high" is my motivation.....

[tropo]

I couldn't do that. The "natural high" is my motivation.....

I understand. For me results are my motivation. That's probably why I'm always extremely focused on what I do. No results = no motivation. I don't care about "highs" and don't really get them anyway. That's not to say I feel bad after training.

For you guys who strive for "natural highs" - what happens if you don't get them? Do you feel depressed?

[phuturatica]

Well guys, I just got back from the gym and then a healthy grilled chicken salad for dinner.

I already have a gym buddy and she is no expert either but she is a big part of my motivation so I'm very thankful for that.

I did the same routine I posted earlier, only this time I ran on the treadmill for 25 minutes, a little more than I did on Friday so I'm happy with that. I do get adrenaline rushes and I do enjoy it but one of the things that I have noticed is that I feel dizzy after a work out. It's more like a shaky dizzy feeling rather than a faint dizzy feeling. I got adrenaline rushes when I did 3 hour ballet sessions but its different from the gym. Does anyone know what is causing the dizzy shaky feeling?

@smokie I already go swimming 3 times a week and I do 100 laps each time.

Hah! I feel pretty sore but satisfied right now. I was advised to buy some boxing liniments as my calf muscles feel tight and sore. So right now I'm lying in bed feeling all warm from the boxing liniment oil. Lets just hope I don't wake up 3/4 times throughout the night with really bad cramp in my calves like I did after Friday! Also before you say it - I[ve eaten a banana for potassium (I can't have too much potassium due to kidney failure) and I've drank 2 litres of water since 6pm. So hopefully that should keep the cramps at bay! *fingers crossed*

This whole gym malarkey isn't easy but it's definitely satisfying. I feel better in myself for finally getting off my ass and doing something about it rather than moaning about being fat.

(p.s. if this is badly written, my apologies - I'm super tired!)

[bonobo]

You are going to read and get all sorts of advice. But one thing which always rings true is that it takes both diet and exercise to lose weight. Diet alone tends to reduce the body's metabolism. Exercise alone tends to make people hungrier, and then they eat more.

Exercise keeps up the metabolism and diet reduces the calories.

A few other things to remember is that muscle weighs more than fat, so you may look leaner with more muscle mass, you can actually weigh more.

More muscle mass will also take more calories just to exist, so more calories will be burned even when sleeping.

When exercising, for the most weight loss, tone first, then cardio. Also, if you can do this in the morning before eating.

There are many, many more aspects and opinions, but those are just a few points.

[JSixpack]

You can lose fat from exercise alone and you can lose weight from diet alone, but the best way is to lose it from both.

No.

Now, to Jsixpack and others who don't believe exercise can help you lose fat. If a person heads for the gym first thing in the morning, without food and burns say 1000 calories on cardio, how could you possibly tell me the person is not burning fat? That's ridiculous. As long as the person doesn't increase his calorie intake he's going to lose fat.

Oh, one can easily set unrealistic or impossible conditions. Almost anyone will make up the calorie deficit, sometimes unconsciously. Exercise makes one hungrier. Hence lumberjacks eat a lot more, and are a lot bigger, than sedentary office workers, generally. Very few have the discipline to go hungry. And very few know the difference between good calories and bad calories. In my post, I mentioned "workable." I myself exercise and am in good shape. I don't fool myself that exercise is keeping me from being overweight, however.

And your little cliche has been done MORE to death. As Gary Taubes relates in Why We Get Fat (pp. 71-72),

this idea that we get fat because we're sedentary and we can get lean or prevent ourselves from fattening further by upping our energy expenditure is at least a century old. One of the most influential European authorities on obesity and diabetes, Carl von Noorden, suggested this in 1907. We can, in fact, trace it to the 1860s, when the obese British undertaker William Banting discussed his numerous failed attempts to lose weight in his best-selling

Letter on Corpulence

. A physician friend, wrote Banting, suggested he slim down by "increased bodily exertion." So Banting took up rowing "for a couple of hours in the early morning." He gained muscular vigor, he wrote, "but with it a prodigious appetite, which I was compelled to indulge, and consequently increased in weight, until my kind old friend advised me to forsake the exercise."

See also:

The Scientist and the Stairmaster

The main cause of obesity is laziness.

No. In fact this is one of the unfair charges leveled against the obese.

Edited July 15, 2012 by JSixpack

[JSixpack]

As some posters have noted above, exercise isn't very helpful towards losing weight, though it's great in other ways. On cardio, I suggest reading

The Case Against Cardio

Have you read this article you linked? It's written by a person who believed in an extreme amount of high intensity training, always keeping his heart rate in the upper extremes.

That's not what the author said at all. I leave it to the members to read and decide for themselves.

[bonobo]

I did the same routine I posted earlier, only this time I ran on the treadmill for 25 minutes, a little more than I did on Friday so I'm happy with that. I do get adrenaline rushes and I do enjoy it but one of the things that I have noticed is that I feel dizzy after a work out. It's more like a shaky dizzy feeling rather than a faint dizzy feeling. I got adrenaline rushes when I did 3 hour ballet sessions but its different from the gym. Does anyone know what is causing the dizzy shaky feeling?

Dizziness can be caused by a number of things, from just not being used to exercise, low blood sugar, high blood pressure, and poor circulation. If you know your blood pressure is OK, and if the dizziness persists, I would check with a doctor.

[tropo]

As some posters have noted above, exercise isn't very helpful towards losing weight, though it's great in other ways. On cardio, I suggest reading

The Case Against Cardio

Have you read this article you linked? It's written by a person who believed in an extreme amount of high intensity training, always keeping his heart rate in the upper extremes.

That's not what the author said at all. I leave it to the members to read and decide for themselves.

I thought so - obviously you didn't read it. If you're going to link articles to try to prove your point, you should read them first. Do I really have to go to the trouble of quoting from your link to prove my point?

Now go and study MAF training. You'll learn something about burning calories.

Edited July 15, 2012 by tropo

[tropo]

You can lose fat from exercise alone and you can lose weight from diet alone, but the best way is to lose it from both.

No.

Obviously we're going around in circles, but yes, the only good way to lose fat is to diet and exercise together. Come and see me and I'll show you how it is done. You'll end up with a nice hard, muscled physique with low bodyfat. Diet alone to lose weight and you'll end up like jelly... and as soon as you introduce extra calories you'll blow up again. It's a waste of time.

I train very hard but don't increase my food intake. It's quite easy with a bit of know how. You only have to learn what to eat. I've lost 10kg without going hungry. I eat a lot of food but lose weight - imagine that?

It's easy to find articles with Google to try to convince people to diet and not exercise because most people are too lazy to get off their butts and they're looking for an easy way and many authors are looking for ways to please this lazy crowd. There's a lot of money to be made providing easy ways but they don't work.

Edited July 15, 2012 by tropo

[tropo]

The main cause of obesity is laziness.

No. In fact this is one of the unfair charges leveled against the obese.

Quoted directly from your YouTube video....

Edited July 15, 2012 by tropo

[bkkjames]

You are going to read and get all sorts of advice. But one thing which always rings true is that it takes both diet and exercise to lose weight. Diet alone tends to reduce the body's metabolism. Exercise alone tends to make people hungrier, and then they eat more.

Exercise keeps up the metabolism and diet reduces the calories.

A few other things to remember is that muscle weighs more than fat, so you may look leaner with more muscle mass, you can actually weigh more.

More muscle mass will also take more calories just to exist, so more calories will be burned even when sleeping.

When exercising, for the most weight loss, tone first, then cardio. Also, if you can do this in the morning before eating.

There are many, many more aspects and opinions, but those are just a few points.

We dont agree on much over the years but I agree with much of what you wrote here My calorie in take is considerably higher now than my pre workout , fat ass lazy days, difference is the types of calories.

[smokie36]

I couldn't do that. The "natural high" is my motivation.....

I understand. For me results are my motivation. That's probably why I'm always extremely focused on what I do. No results = no motivation. I don't care about "highs" and don't really get them anyway. That's not to say I feel bad after training.

For you guys who strive for "natural highs" - what happens if you don't get them? Do you feel depressed?

No mate....if I don't get that then I know I need to work harder or for longer next time. Usually means I have felt a strain somewhere and stopped for fear of causing an injury.

But the long term gain is also a motivation....all exercise is good so I don't let that worry me.

[eek]

Ah! I was hoping I would get a response from a woman! If you could help me devise a plan that would be awesome thank you very much. So far, this is what I have been doing:

• Start off by stretching and warming the muscles up. I don't do static stretching. I know this already after doing 17 years of ballet.
  
• Brisk walking on the treadmill for about 2 minutes and build up speed over the course.
  
• Full on run for about 20 minutes.
  
• Some static stretching on the legs.
  
• 10 minutes on the bike on the 'fat burn' program so the weight increases and decreases in a pattern.
  
• Some static stretching again.
  
• 100 reps on the rowing machine.
  
• Lift 5KG weights on each arm. Do bicep curls and then behind my neck lifting (not sure of the name)
  
• More stretching.
  
• Put legs on exercise ball and do 50 sit ups
  
• Final stretching.
  

This is my plan so far and it kills me every time but I feel better for doing it. My diet is slowly but surely getting better but the hardest thing is knowing what is healthy and what isn't. It would be nice to see someone's diet plan on a daily basis in Thailand. I don't have a kitchen though at the moment. That's my main problem. Also 7Eleven is killing me.

Actually, your workout seems fine to me. But are you doing this everyday? (if you mentioned that somewhere it got lost in the debate for me!). With muscle work you need to let the muscle rest. So work one group/area one day, and rest the next day. I generally prefer to push my body one day, but rest on the next...then, i do a different set of body work the next day (if im feeling good, i may do this the day after, but usually i take rest days). (Again, im no expert, i just go by what i was taught, and what ive realised works for me) Also, make sure your techique for lifting is correct. I think you should add more weight work/combinations for toning.

For calves, this one uses your own body weight. I dont do it quite as she is showing. I basically just go to anything in the gym that is up from the floor and that i can rest the balls of my feet on. I dont use any weights, just my own body weight, and balance.

Phuturatica, there are so many different weights and possible combinations you could do. To be honest, although you have a fitness background (ballet..wow!), after a bit of thought, im concerned about recommending anything in case your weight-lifting form is incorrect and you hurt yourself. ..............You are going to hate this, but i really think you should bite the bullet and get just at least one or two starter sessions with trainer...and ask him/her to devise a program with weights, based on your concerns. Why not give it a shot? Could even go in really early to avoid more people. But to be honest, whenever i see anyone of any size with a trainer i dont think anything negative, its normal. If you do that, then you can get a trainer to update a new program whenever you feel you need a shake up and your program isnt doing much for you anymore. ..Just my real thoughts on this.

[robblok]

You are going to read and get all sorts of advice. But one thing which always rings true is that it takes both diet and exercise to lose weight. Diet alone tends to reduce the body's metabolism. Exercise alone tends to make people hungrier, and then they eat more.

Exercise keeps up the metabolism and diet reduces the calories.

A few other things to remember is that muscle weighs more than fat, so you may look leaner with more muscle mass, you can actually weigh more.

More muscle mass will also take more calories just to exist, so more calories will be burned even when sleeping.

When exercising, for the most weight loss, tone first, then cardio. Also, if you can do this in the morning before eating.

There are many, many more aspects and opinions, but those are just a few points.

We dont agree on much over the years but I agree with much of what you wrote here My calorie in take is considerably higher now than my pre workout , fat ass lazy days, difference is the types of calories.

That is the whole basic of it and then we can argue all we want about what is the right food and the right exercise. But id say anything that you can keep doing and works for you is right.

Diet is fun but once you take it to extremes its harder to keep. Same with exercise it needs to stay within limits to keep you doing it.

[robblok]

Ah! I was hoping I would get a response from a woman! If you could help me devise a plan that would be awesome thank you very much. So far, this is what I have been doing:

• Start off by stretching and warming the muscles up. I don't do static stretching. I know this already after doing 17 years of ballet.
  
• Brisk walking on the treadmill for about 2 minutes and build up speed over the course.
  
• Full on run for about 20 minutes.
  
• Some static stretching on the legs.
  
• 10 minutes on the bike on the 'fat burn' program so the weight increases and decreases in a pattern.
  
• Some static stretching again.
  
• 100 reps on the rowing machine.
  
• Lift 5KG weights on each arm. Do bicep curls and then behind my neck lifting (not sure of the name)
  
• More stretching.
  
• Put legs on exercise ball and do 50 sit ups
  
• Final stretching.
  

This is my plan so far and it kills me every time but I feel better for doing it. My diet is slowly but surely getting better but the hardest thing is knowing what is healthy and what isn't. It would be nice to see someone's diet plan on a daily basis in Thailand. I don't have a kitchen though at the moment. That's my main problem. Also 7Eleven is killing me.

To be honest i really like how you start it off but then you mess it up with 100 reps on a rowing machine.. that is maybe 5 minutes of rowing.. not much at all you barely get into motion and rythm and you need to stop again.

After all that cardio you do a few weight exercises.. real minimum and not even compound exercises.. not much use in my opinion.

Then disproportionally amount of abb exersise (probably from the idea that you can burn fat locally).

Id put a much larger part of weight lifting in the program with some compound exercises.

Plus i would rotate exercise as musles need to rest too.

[tropo]

To be honest i really like how you start it off but then you mess it up with 100 reps on a rowing machine.. that is maybe 5 minutes of rowing.. not much at all you barely get into motion and rythm and you need to stop again.

After all that cardio you do a few weight exercises.. real minimum and not even compound exercises.. not much use in my opinion.

Then disproportionally amount of abb exersise (probably from the idea that you can burn fat locally).

Id put a much larger part of weight lifting in the program with some compound exercises.

Plus i would rotate exercise as musles need to rest too.

I'd cut out all the stretching too, although as an ex-ballet dancer I understand that would be a hard habit to break.

[Kalbo]

"And very few know the difference between good calories and bad calories. "

I would suggest that you don't even know what a 'calorie' is.

Do you know what calories are and what they measure ? A calorie can neither be good nor bad in the same way that a kilogram can neither be good nor bad.

[mrbiggwigg]

As some posters have noted above, exercise isn't very helpful towards losing weight, though it's great in other ways. On cardio, I suggest reading

The Case Against Cardio

Have you read this article you linked? It's written by a person who believed in an extreme amount of high intensity training, always keeping his heart rate in the upper extremes.

That's not what the author said at all. I leave it to the members to read and decide for themselves.

Are you overweight by any chance, and can't be arsed to do any exercise, therefore looking to persuade others that exercise can't help, in a way to convince yourself?

[eek]

To be honest i really like how you start it off but then you mess it up with 100 reps on a rowing machine.. that is maybe 5 minutes of rowing.. not much at all you barely get into motion and rythm and you need to stop again.

After all that cardio you do a few weight exercises.. real minimum and not even compound exercises.. not much use in my opinion.

Then disproportionally amount of abb exersise (probably from the idea that you can burn fat locally).

Id put a much larger part of weight lifting in the program with some compound exercises.

Plus i would rotate exercise as musles need to rest too.

I'd cut out all the stretching too, although as an ex-ballet dancer I understand that would be a hard habit to break.

Tropo, why would you cut out stretching???? Pretty confused by that one!

[tropo]

Tropo, why would you cut out stretching???? Pretty confused by that one!

I do some light stretching between sets when the muscle is very warm and full of blood, but that's it. Stretching puts too much stress on tendons and ligaments. It's useful for dancers who need hypermobility in joints, but for others it tends to weaken joints and if you have joint injuries or pain it will make it worse.

Edited July 16, 2012 by tropo

[tropo]

"And very few know the difference between good calories and bad calories. "

I would suggest that you don't even know what a 'calorie' is.

Do you know what calories are and what they measure ? A calorie can neither be good nor bad in the same way that a kilogram can neither be good nor bad.

There certainly are good and bad calories. Stop nitpicking the physics. Let me explain. A calorie from saturated fat would be considered bad in this context whereas a calorie from omega 3 oil would be considered good.

And yes, we know the physics so there's no need to come back with that - "A calorie is the energy needed to increase the temperature of a given mass of water by 1 °C at atmospheric pressure" .. and it equal 4.2 joules.

And yes, in the same context there are good and bad kilograms. A kilogram of lard could be considered bad and a kilogram of muscle good. A kilogram of gold would be fantastic whereas a kilogram of charcoal wouldn't be so hot.

Edited July 16, 2012 by tropo

[bonobo]

To be honest i really like how you start it off but then you mess it up with 100 reps on a rowing machine.. that is maybe 5 minutes of rowing.. not much at all you barely get into motion and rythm and you need to stop again.

After all that cardio you do a few weight exercises.. real minimum and not even compound exercises.. not much use in my opinion.

Then disproportionally amount of abb exersise (probably from the idea that you can burn fat locally).

Id put a much larger part of weight lifting in the program with some compound exercises.

Plus i would rotate exercise as musles need to rest too.

I'd cut out all the stretching too, although as an ex-ballet dancer I understand that would be a hard habit to break.

Tropo, why would you cut out stretching???? Pretty confused by that one!

I was always brought up that stretching is a must. I was religious about it before any exercise. However, the latest research show little value in stretching and that it can even have some deleterious effects.

As science studies exercise more and more, new things are discovered which either buttress or refute commonly held beliefs. I have had to totally throw away some almost religiously held views I have embraced to better reflect the ground truth as best we know at the moment.

[bonobo]

The "good calorie/bad calorie" is somewhat of a misnomer, but the concept is sound.

Sure, a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. However, consuming 100 calories of, say potato chips and consuming 100 calories of cranberries or liver do not offer the same benefits. The chips (crisps for our non-American readers) do give 100 calories of energy, same as the other two. But what they don't give is the huge amount vitamins, minerals, and other elements the cranberries or liver do.

[mrbiggwigg]

"And very few know the difference between good calories and bad calories. "

I would suggest that you don't even know what a 'calorie' is.

Do you know what calories are and what they measure ? A calorie can neither be good nor bad in the same way that a kilogram can neither be good nor bad.

There certainly are good and bad calories. Stop nitpicking the physics. Let me explain. A calorie from saturated fat would be considered bad in this context whereas a calorie from omega 3 oil would be considered good.

And yes, we know the physics so there's no need to come back with that - "A calorie is the energy needed to increase the temperature of a given mass of water by 1 °C at atmospheric pressure" .. and it equal 4.2 joules.

And yes, in the same context there are good and bad kilograms. A kilogram of lard could be considered bad and a kilogram of muscle good. A kilogram of gold would be fantastic whereas a kilogram of charcoal wouldn't be so hot.

I think you missed the point. Kalbo was pointing out that you can't say a system of measurement is good or bad. I'm pretty sure you just jumped in and threw in a pile of science, nitpicking the physics.

[tropo]

The "good calorie/bad calorie" is somewhat of a misnomer, but the concept is sound.

Sure, a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. However, consuming 100 calories of, say potato chips and consuming 100 calories of cranberries or liver do not offer the same benefits. The chips (crisps for our non-American readers) do give 100 calories of energy, same as the other two. But what they don't give is the huge amount vitamins, minerals, and other elements the cranberries or liver do.

And further to this, for example, 100 calories obtained from sugar could cause an insulin spike resulting in fat being deposited whereas 100 calories from beef wouldn't.

[tropo]

I think you missed the point. Kalbo was pointing out that you can't say a system of measurement is good or bad. I'm pretty sure you just jumped in and threw in a pile of science, nitpicking the physics.

No, you missed the point. Read it all again because you're totally confused.

Kalbo was nitpicking the technical specifics of unit measurements whereas Roblok was referring to the nutrient content of food.

Edited July 16, 2012 by tropo

[robblok]

To be honest i really like how you start it off but then you mess it up with 100 reps on a rowing machine.. that is maybe 5 minutes of rowing.. not much at all you barely get into motion and rythm and you need to stop again.

After all that cardio you do a few weight exercises.. real minimum and not even compound exercises.. not much use in my opinion.

Then disproportionally amount of abb exersise (probably from the idea that you can burn fat locally).

Id put a much larger part of weight lifting in the program with some compound exercises.

Plus i would rotate exercise as musles need to rest too.

I'd cut out all the stretching too, although as an ex-ballet dancer I understand that would be a hard habit to break.

Tropo, why would you cut out stretching???? Pretty confused by that one!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/sports/playmagazine/112pewarm.html

just read eek

[mrbiggwigg]

I think you missed the point. Kalbo was pointing out that you can't say a system of measurement is good or bad. I'm pretty sure you just jumped in and threw in a pile of science, nitpicking the physics.

No, you missed the point. Read it all again because you're totally confused.

Kalbo was nitpicking the technical specifics of unit measurements whereas Roblok was referring to the nutrient content of food.

I am confused most of the time, but I'm pretty sure everyone here knows the difference between gold and charcoal, don't you?

[tropo]

You come across as very grumpy and opinionated, and yes I am nitpicking the wording and physics. There are are no good calories or bad calories, as a calorie is a unit of measurement and nothing more. Your analogy of a a kilo of lard being bad whereas one of muscle is good is purely subjective, dependent very much on the individual. Are you American by any chance ?

You're coming across as a troll hijacking a thread.

Everyone (besides you that is) understands what a person means when they talk about good and bad calories. Now go and find a physics thread somewhere and spare us from your nonsense, and be sure to take Mrbiggwigg with you.

Edited July 16, 2012 by tropo

[MaxwellsDemon]

I swear Mr. Trainer, these calories started out with best intentions! They're really good calories at inside!