Visa Or Family Permit To Uk?

[johnlk]

Hi all,

my Thai wife and I (UK) are currently in Bulgaria and we are hoping to visit the UK in a few month's time.

Our aim is to spend approximately equal lengths of time throughout the year in 3 different countries: Thailand, Bulgaria and the UK., and we are hoping you guys can help us select the best way to make this possible.

In her passport my wife has a current Schengen tourist visa, a current Bulgarian tourist visa, and now has just been issued a Residency permit from the Bulgarian authorities on the basis of being married to an EU citizen,. This is valid for nearly 5 years (until the date mine expires), and I believe that once this 5 year period is up, we can apply for permanent residence here.

Now, as I understand it, she may be refused entry to the UK even with a fellow EU country's residency card, so she should either apply for a visa (difficult?), or a UK family permit (maybe easier?).

I've read through the UKBA web-site, and apart from going round in circles, I am more swayed to go for the family permit (free, but a longer wait for long-term residency?), but until I've had some expert advise here, will wait to make the final decision, and then make the application.

Has anyone else gone this route (or similar), and is it easier than the visa route?

We aren't worried if it's a longer wait for permanent residency in the UK, we just wish to be able to travel freely without needing visas every time.

[beano2274]

A residency pass is not a passport, she still holds a Thai one and would therefore require the Visa, the 6 month family visa is easy to apply for, if the documentation is in order, also since she has the residency it might be easier, apply in Bulgaria.

[7by7]

Normally EEA nationals cannot use the EEA freedom of movement regulations for their non EEA family members to enter the EEA state of which they are a citizen.

However, if you are exercising an economic treaty right as an employed or self-employed person to live in Bulgaria then your wife is entitled to a free EEA family permit to travel to the UK; provided she is traveling with or to join you.

As said, you must be working in Bulgaria. If you are living there as a self sufficient person, e.g. retired, or studying then she is not entitled to an EEA family permit to enter the UK.

Your plan to rotate between the UK, Bulgaria and Thailand indicates that you are not working.

Therefore, I would suggest a long term UK visit visa; which can be for up to 10 years. If resident in Bulgaria, she can apply there.

Be warned though, the longer the term, the higher the fee and if the ECO decides to issue a shorter term you will not have the difference in fees refunded.

Also note that no matter how long a visit visa is valid for, she will only be able to spend a maximum of 6 months per visit in the UK and, usually, no more than 6 months out of any 12 in the UK. If it is your intention to spend longer than this in the UK then a spouse settlement visa is the way to go.

[johnlk]

Thanks guys, and very well put.

I did have another read on the UKBA site, and it does become clear that the Family Permit is only for non-UK EEA nationals, so that "easy" route now looks impossible, unless it's done via the "economic migrant" way,.

I do have a house and company here in Bulgaria (for the last 7 years), but as of now no employment, so I guess I could find a job here if we were to go with this route. Any idea the length of time we would need to be living and working here together as I can't find any indication anywhere online?

I also had a look at the visa application process and the forms on the site, (and the price ) am I right that would be for the spouse visa valid for 33 months? And then after 2 and a half years it would need applying for again, at the same price?

Is this a part of the new law, because I am sure I read before that the visa route to Long term Residency was 2 years, while the Family Permit route was 5?

Seems like now it would be 5 years either way.

The more I understand the more I am thinking of the Family permit route, even if it means staying here long enough and working first.

[7by7]

There is no minimum time you need to have been exercising an economic treaty right in another member state before you can use the EEA regulations to move back to the UK; although your wife must have been living there with you.

EUN2.14 Can family members of British citizens qualify for an EEA family permit? ('Surinder Singh' cases)

It does not matter if the only reason the British national went to another Member State was to exercise an economic Treaty right was so that he / she could come back to the UK with his / her family members under EC law.

If applying under the UK immigration rules the new family settlement rules mean that a spouse now needs to be resident in the UK for 5 years before they can apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain. The initial visa is valid for 33 months and after living in the UK for 30 months they need to apply (and pay!) for another 30 months and then, assuming all the other requirements are met, they can apply for ILR.

Given your stated intention

Our aim is to spend approximately equal lengths of time throughout the year in 3 different countries: Thailand, Bulgaria and the UK

I still feel that a long term UK visit visa would best suit your purposes.

If you did go the settlement route then at the 30 months stage and the ILR stage your wife would need to show that she is a UK resident; which may be difficult to do as most of her time would be spent out of the UK.

If she were granted ILR then this would lapse if she spent a continuous period of 2 years or more out of the UK and could be canceled by an immigration officer if it became apparent that she was not resident in the UK but merely using her ILR for visits; although she would be allowed in as a visitor on that occasion.

Whilst not totally au fait with the EEA regualtions, I feel she would encounter similar difficulties following the EEA route.

The other choice is to live in the UK long enough for her to obtain British citizenship. She could then use her British passport for the UK and Bulgaria and her Thai passport for Thailand. But to qualify for naturalisation as British she would need to be free of immigration time restrictions, i.e. have ILR or if you used the EEA route PR, which means living in the UK for at least 5 years.

She would also need to have been in the UK on the exact day three years prior to applying and during that three years have spent no more than 450 days out of the UK with no more than 90 days in the final year.

[johnlk]

Thanks again 7by7, you are a star.

As I said earlier, she has received her residency card here in BG, and as far as I can tell, the only requirement for this not to be cancelled is that she doesn't stay away from BG for any period exceeding 2 years, which seems very generous.

So, if a UK Family Permit was applied for, we entered the UK with that, and then immediately applied for the UK Residency, I can only assume this would have the same criteria, especially if they are both issued under EEA rules.

The more I look at the UKBA site, all the visa options, all the intrusive "evidence" required, and of course the high fees, the more l am feeling we will go with this Family Permit route, even if it means a 6 month stint of work here (or maybe even another member state).