Cockroaches - Ugh

[mrdome]

Cockroaches teach us something about our inner attitude towards "the ugly/disgusting". They came up through the shower drain at night and even walked on me while I was sleeping when I still lived in Bangkok (there was no open food out! So, that is not needed) The thorns on the legs really hurt when you try to brush them away. But I can honestly say I have not killed one on purpose and will try to keep that up.

[GrahamR]

Has anyone had any success with the electrical/electronic repellents? Some work by ultra sound other by electro magnetism. Most review I have read rubbished them.

Thanks

Graham

[huli]

Has anyone had any success with the electrical/electronic repellents? Some work by ultra sound other by electro magnetism. Most review I have read rubbished them.

Thanks

Graham

one can imagine the suffering of the cockroach when electrically repelled, even if its life is not taken

the question would be, is this acceptable to your conscience?

[leolibby]

one can imagine the suffering of the cockroach when electrically repelled, even if its life is not taken

the question would be, is this acceptable to your conscience?

I don't think "electric repelling" means like a bug zapper. It means that the device needs a battery.. I think they are ultrasonic mostly.. like a dog whistle. they can live a week without a head, so I think they can take it...

[leolibby]

Cockroaches teach us something about our inner attitude towards "the ugly/disgusting". They came up through the shower drain at night and even walked on me while I was sleeping when I still lived in Bangkok (there was no open food out! So, that is not needed) The thorns on the legs really hurt when you try to brush them away. But I can honestly say I have not killed one on purpose and will try to keep that up.

When I lived in the Philippines, I bought some shoes from a nice a/c mall place... but when I got home, a huge roach fell out of one. Unfortuately, I don't object to killing them if they are in my living quarters. I gave that one a proper Christian burial though.. buried it right near the church. every year I leave it some flowers. If they are outside in their own habitat, I won't kill them. But if a bee is in my room, often i'll pick it up and release it outside. they won't sting me. Mosquitos dont seem to bother me either. I'm afraid of things that look like spider.. but i have nothing against snakes (garden snakes).

[GrahamR]

one can imagine the suffering of the cockroach when electrically repelled, even if its life is not taken

the question would be, is this acceptable to your conscience?

I believe they produce sound or electromagnetic waves to discomfort rather than harm them, unfortunately I've read they just don't work.

Graham

[huli]

My wife and I have an ant problem in our kitchen. We put our sugar bowl inside a cup of water to prevent the ants from getting to it. However, I notice lots of ants floating in the water, dead.

Does it violate the precept not to kill by putting the sugar bowl in a bowl of water? Have we taken life?

You might say, no, the ants have taken their own life by trying to swim to the sugar. But, do ants really understand the risk I have put them in?

Now, this is getting interesting......

[Xangsamhua]

My wife and I have an ant problem in our kitchen. We put our sugar bowl inside a cup of water to prevent the ants from getting to it. However, I notice lots of ants floating in the water, dead.

Does it violate the precept not to kill by putting the sugar bowl in a bowl of water? Have we taken life?

You might say, no, the ants have taken their own life by trying to swim to the sugar. But, do ants really understand the risk I have put them in?

Now, this is getting interesting......

Are we working towards the Buddhist version of the Nanny State?

The ants are working out their Karma. Attachment to Huli's and Mrs Huli's sugar results in death and rebirth as a cockroach.

But if we see ourselves having a responsibility to protect them from their self-destructive tanha, then we have sinned in placing temptation in their way.

There must be an alternative.

Catholics used to be warned not to become overscrupulous. By this was meant having an unreasonable fear of sin, producing spiritual anguish.

Scruples were seen as a form of neurosis that produces anguish that affects the mind, making it see evil where in reality no evil exists, and the conscience, which is troubled by uncertainty. There is a great difference between the over scrupulous and the delicate conscience. The latter takes cognisance of the most trivial wrongdoing but it draws a clear distinction between imperfection and venial sin and between minor faults and grave ones. The man of scruples tortures himself with the thought that he has sinned deeply, whereas in fact his offence has been a venial sin or no sin at all. http://www.advancedchristianity.com/Pages/MPC/Scrupulous/Scruples.htm

Venial sin is that form of sin which is often hard to avoid, but which nevertheless requires cognizance, acknowledgement and a sincere intention to avoid in the future. Not putting up proper border controls to prevent ants from swimming across to your sugar may be a sin of omission, but really, I suggest, it is not, unless you appoint yourself as the regent of ants' free will (do they have any?), and I don't think the first precept requires you to go that far. If it does, I suggest you and Mrs Huli give up sugar, and save the ants their effortful but fruitless final swim.

Hope this helps.

[GrahamR]

My wife and I have an ant problem in our kitchen. We put our sugar bowl inside a cup of water to prevent the ants from getting to it. However, I notice lots of ants floating in the water, dead.

Does it violate the precept not to kill by putting the sugar bowl in a bowl of water? Have we taken life?

You might say, no, the ants have taken their own life by trying to swim to the sugar. But, do ants really understand the risk I have put them in?

Now, this is getting interesting......

It was not your intention to kill, so not a violation.

Graham

[Morakot]

People who have never seen cockroaches might find this useful.

[leolibby]

However, I notice lots of ants floating in the water, dead.

They were building a dead ant bridge.

Blatta orientalis's left feeler is shorter than his right

[huli]

My wife and I have an ant problem in our kitchen. We put our sugar bowl inside a cup of water to prevent the ants from getting to it. However, I notice lots of ants floating in the water, dead.

Does it violate the precept not to kill by putting the sugar bowl in a bowl of water? Have we taken life?

You might say, no, the ants have taken their own life by trying to swim to the sugar. But, do ants really understand the risk I have put them in?

Now, this is getting interesting......

It was not your intention to kill, so not a violation.

Graham

By this reasoning, Mr. OP, should you kill the cockroaches in your kitchen, only because you want to have a hygenic and aesthetic home, it would not be your intention to kill either, so go ahead.

Some Buddhist people suggest it is wrong to use pesticides when growing food crops, but that idea is pretty much debunked because of the "intention" caveat.

A person can actively kill them one by one, create circumstances where they will kill themselves, or kill them by the zillions with pesticide. Or go the Jain route. Xangsamhua's comments on this seem to me very apropos.

[gk10002000]

You are doing more harm by not killing or eliminating them. They carry and pass on diseases that can harm other people and animals. If you act morally and try as best as is reasonable to eliminate any attractions in your home to them, I would have a clean consciense. Every time you walk or breath you are killing creatures. Man survived and evolved by killing creatures. Now that we have control and influence of our environment and surroundings, it is reasonable to adapt a non-violence and non-killing interpretation to the limits of buddhism. But taking the dictate to the extreme will harm yourself and others. Clean up and modify your dwelling. You are doing a favor to your neighbors.

[leolibby]

You are doing more harm by not killing or eliminating them. They carry and pass on diseases that can harm other people and animals. If you act morally and try as best as is reasonable to eliminate any attractions in your home to them, I would have a clean consciense. Every time you walk or breath you are killing creatures. Man survived and evolved by killing creatures. Now that we have control and influence of our environment and surroundings, it is reasonable to adapt a non-violence and non-killing interpretation to the limits of buddhism. But taking the dictate to the extreme will harm yourself and others. Clean up and modify your dwelling. You are doing a favor to your neighbors.

Apparently, it is far better to allow your friends and family die from disease , than it is to intentionally kill one insect. You can buy insect poison and "accidentally" leave it where it will kil the cockroaches.. just make sure it's an accident.

[leolibby]

Apparently, it is far better to allow your friends and family die from disease , than it is to intentionally kill one insect. You can buy insect poison and "accidentally" leave it where it will kil the cockroaches.. just make sure it's an accident.

But I'm not sure.

[rockyysdt]

My question is, "Do they actually carry dangerous diseases?"

It's been said that being exposed to disease and infection can be postitive as it builds up ones immune system.

It's been documented that infants brought up by their mothers in a sheltered environment away from others do poorly later in life due to their poor immunity levels.

Are coackroaches and ants known to harbour serious diseases?

Edited July 28, 2012 by rockyysdt

[yogi100]

My question is, "Do they actually carry dangerous diseases?"

It's been said that being exposed to disease and infection can be postitive as it builds up ones immune system.

It's been documented that infants brought up by their mothers in a sheltered environment away from others do poorly later in life due to their poor immunity levels.

Are coackroaches and ants known to harbour serious diseases?

I once had to use a toilet in a bar in Davao in the PI. It was the filthiest sight I'd ever seen with a turd encrusted toilet bowl that nearly made me spew just to look at it. When the light was turned on dozens of cockroaches scurried into the shadows from the bowl from which they had been eating the shit that was all over the receptacle.

It was the most revolting experience I'd ever had and it's a known fact that they spread diseases just like flies who also feast on faeces do. Flies and cockroaches spread many diseases including typhoid and cholera by contaminating your food with bacteria from their other sources of sustenance. All diseases thrive in tropical conditions so you should always take the necessary precautions.

Bleach splashed around your doorways usually deters these disgusting creatures.

[leolibby]

My question is, "Do they actually carry dangerous diseases?"

It's been said that being exposed to disease and infection can be postitive as it builds up ones immune system.

It's been documented that infants brought up by their mothers in a sheltered environment away from others do poorly later in life due to their poor immunity levels.

Are coackroaches and ants known to harbour serious diseases?

I once had to use a toilet in a bar in Davao in the PI. It was the filthiest sight I'd ever seen with a turd encrusted toilet bowl that nearly made me spew just to look at it. When the light was turned on dozens of cockroaches scurried into the shadows from the bowl from which they had been eating the shit that was all over the receptacle.

It was the most revolting experience I'd ever had and it's a known fact that they spread diseases just like flies who also feast on faeces do. Flies and cockroaches spread many diseases including typhoid and cholera by contaminating your food with bacteria from their other sources of sustenance. All diseases thrive in tropical conditions so you should always take the necessary precautions.

Bleach splashed around your doorways usually deters these disgusting creatures.

Interesting, I never considered roaches to spread disease.. i got sick alot in the philippines though... upper resperatory infections. I got dengue fever, carried by mosquitos, as well... I prefer cold cliimates. i doubt many pathogens outside can survive.

Edited July 28, 2012 by leolibby

[Xangsamhua]

My question is, "Do they actually carry dangerous diseases?"

It's been said that being exposed to disease and infection can be postitive as it builds up ones immune system.

It's been documented that infants brought up by their mothers in a sheltered environment away from others do poorly later in life due to their poor immunity levels.

Are coackroaches and ants known to harbour serious diseases?

I once had to use a toilet in a bar in Davao in the PI. It was the filthiest sight I'd ever seen with a turd encrusted toilet bowl that nearly made me spew just to look at it. When the light was turned on dozens of cockroaches scurried into the shadows from the bowl from which they had been eating the shit that was all over the receptacle.

It was the most revolting experience I'd ever had and it's a known fact that they spread diseases just like flies who also feast on faeces do. Flies and cockroaches spread many diseases including typhoid and cholera by contaminating your food with bacteria from their other sources of sustenance. All diseases thrive in tropical conditions so you should always take the necessary precautions.

Bleach splashed around your doorways usually deters these disgusting creatures.

I'll never look dispassionately at a cockroach again.

The Cockroach by Kevin Halligan

I watched a giant cockroach start to pace,

Skirting a ball of dust that road the floor.

At first he seemed quite satisfied to trace

A path between the wainscot and the door,

But soon he turned to jog in crooked rings,

Circling the rusty table leg and back,

And flipping right over to scratch his wings-

As if the victim of a mild attack

Of restlessness that worsened over time.

After a while, he climbed an open shelf

And stopped. He looked uncertain where to go.

Was this due payment for some vicious crime

A former life had led to? I don’t know

Except I thought I recognised myself.

[leolibby]

I don't believe "bad" karma will cause you to be reborn as an insect, or anything like that. That literally is a cultural scare tactic meant to promote good behavior. It achieves that too.