Corruption In Thailand Worsens Over First Six Months: Survey

[nurofiend]

Awesome

you still following me?

i have no treats for you.

Edited July 18, 2012 by nurofiend

[Reasonableman]

Awesome

you still following me?

i have no treats for you.

Clearly, it was a vain hope

[Thaddeus]

Awesome

you still following me?

i have no treats for you.

Not even 30% of a treat?

[Reasonableman]

Awesome

you still following me?

i have no treats for you.

Not even 30% of a treat?

Ok, Ok, let's settle for 25%. Jeez.

[nurofiend]

Awesome

you still following me?

i have no treats for you.

Not even 30% of a treat?

not a scrap.

for i am only a little person who never mastered how to thrive in society.

[geriatrickid]

How is the Government supposed to reign in corruption when it is the most corrupt force in the county?

-mel.

Well you do have a point. The South is controlled by the Democrats and so is Bangkok. Phuket is probably one of the most corrupt regions of Thailand and the Democrats have been in power for quite some time.

[nurofiend]

Awesome

you still following me?

i have no treats for you.

Clearly, it was a vain hope

arf arf

[whybother]

How is the Government supposed to reign in corruption when it is the most corrupt force in the county?

-mel.

Well you do have a point. The South is controlled by the Democrats and so is Bangkok. Phuket is probably one of the most corrupt regions of Thailand and the Democrats have been in power for quite some time.

Of course, there's no corruption in Chiang Mai, Pattaya or anywhere north of Bangkok.

[tlansford]

How is the Government supposed to reign in corruption when it is the most corrupt force in the county?

-mel.

Well you do have a point. The South is controlled by the Democrats and so is Bangkok. Phuket is probably one of the most corrupt regions of Thailand and the Democrats have been in power for quite some time.

You make a good point that corruption is not partisan.

And to answer Mel1 the way government can do it is by changing procedures - ie: shine a light on the money/projects. Their ability to do that is possible because the government just has to be the electrician... wire the room for electricity, put in the light bulbs, let someone else turn on the lights in the room. Just make the rules disclosing the bidding process, the bids, the winners, even disclosing the bank payments, etc. It is the publics money and given the tools to get the information, someone will always look for the information and, basically, turn on the lights.

[h90]

Related, from last fall.

Thailand steps up anti-corruption drive

Tue, 6 Sep 2011 12:03 GMT Source: Content partner // Thomson Reuters Accelus

Thailand has amended its anti-corruption act to require greater cooperation from banks in providing information on transactions involving government-related projects. The revised law seeks to eradicate corruption in the country, starting with government procurement projects, which will require greater transparency on the part of government officials and contractors involved, Vichai Assarasakorn, secretary-general of the board of trade at the Thai Chamber of Commerce (TCC), told Thomson Reuters.

http://www.trust.org...rruption-drive/

Corruption has come up a couple of times recently, and it is clearly a serious problem in both the public and the private sector.

IMO it is up to governments to lead the way in increasing dramatically the transparency of their business dealings to set the norm for the private sector. The private sector cannot do it first because the private sector doesn't have a single, organized hierarchy making rules, but governments do and can.

If governments set the tone and change the expectations, then the private sector eventually follows. I do not see it working in the other direction.

Well in the private sector, it is up to the owner, if he likes to pay on every purchase 20 % more and his 15.000 Baht per month purchase lady is driving a new Mercedes or if he takes care of that problem.

there are a lot medium sized companies where the owner sometimes purchase himself, even small items, to verify the prices.

And if some companies waste money, I don't care much. But if I have to pay higher taxes as Barnharn, Newin, Thaksin or Suthep puts half of my money in their own pocket than I don't like it.

[lannarebirth]

How is the Government supposed to reign in corruption when it is the most corrupt force in the county?

-mel.

Well you do have a point. The South is controlled by the Democrats and so is Bangkok. Phuket is probably one of the most corrupt regions of Thailand and the Democrats have been in power for quite some time.

You make a good point that corruption is not partisan.

And to answer Mel1 the way government can do it is by changing procedures - ie: shine a light on the money/projects. Their ability to do that is possible because the government just has to be the electrician... wire the room for electricity, put in the light bulbs, let someone else turn on the lights in the room. Just make the rules disclosing the bidding process, the bids, the winners, even disclosing the bank payments, etc. It is the publics money and given the tools to get the information, someone will always look for the information and, basically, turn on the lights.

One good thing about the money laundering bill is that it has created a BOOM! in Thai real estate and development. Cash is getting funneled into lots of local projects rather then getting channeled offshore.

[rubl]

How is the Government supposed to reign in corruption when it is the most corrupt force in the county?

-mel.

Well you do have a point. The South is controlled by the Democrats and so is Bangkok. Phuket is probably one of the most corrupt regions of Thailand and the Democrats have been in power for quite some time.

You make a good point that corruption is not partisan.

And to answer Mel1 the way government can do it is by changing procedures - ie: shine a light on the money/projects. Their ability to do that is possible because the government just has to be the electrician... wire the room for electricity, put in the light bulbs, let someone else turn on the lights in the room. Just make the rules disclosing the bidding process, the bids, the winners, even disclosing the bank payments, etc. It is the publics money and given the tools to get the information, someone will always look for the information and, basically, turn on the lights.

Not being (a) partisan I only want to mention that corruption seems embedded in Thai society. not only South, but also NorthEast, and other directions. Tlansford is right in saying "government can do it is by changing procedures - ie: shine a light on the money/projects". Unfortunately it's seems just a policy statement to be ignored. Well at least the corporate tax rate was reduced in a jiffy and today 50,000 tabletPCs will be moved into the provinces.

[h90]

How is the Government supposed to reign in corruption when it is the most corrupt force in the county?

-mel.

Well you do have a point. The South is controlled by the Democrats and so is Bangkok. Phuket is probably one of the most corrupt regions of Thailand and the Democrats have been in power for quite some time.

You make a good point that corruption is not partisan.

And to answer Mel1 the way government can do it is by changing procedures - ie: shine a light on the money/projects. Their ability to do that is possible because the government just has to be the electrician... wire the room for electricity, put in the light bulbs, let someone else turn on the lights in the room. Just make the rules disclosing the bidding process, the bids, the winners, even disclosing the bank payments, etc. It is the publics money and given the tools to get the information, someone will always look for the information and, basically, turn on the lights.

Complete transparent wouldn't be a problem in modern times with computer and internet.

I would put the complete countries accounting online. Maybe xxxx the names of the government employes.

The public who votes and pays everything are the owner of the country, not some politicians, and they should have a right to look into their books.

I posted that once in a discussion in a German speaking forum and there was a mob, most probably from a PR company who furiously explained why this would be absolute evil.....

[whybother]

And to answer Mel1 the way government can do it is by changing procedures - ie: shine a light on the money/projects. Their ability to do that is possible because the government just has to be the electrician... wire the room for electricity, put in the light bulbs, let someone else turn on the lights in the room. Just make the rules disclosing the bidding process, the bids, the winners, even disclosing the bank payments, etc. It is the publics money and given the tools to get the information, someone will always look for the information and, basically, turn on the lights.

It would be relatively easy (theoretically) to reduce the corruption in Thailand. But it won't happen in our life time. It's too deeply entrenched, in government and business, and in everyone's daily life. The (any) government won't change the rules to reduce corruption when that's the main reason why most of them are actually there.

[reader]

Corruption is evident not just here, but in every country.

However, I will accept that the level of corruption that exists particularily in Thailand, is quite profound to the extend that it has now become almost acceptable in every facit of Thai society to behave in this manner.

The consequence thereof is undoubtably preventing this country from moving forward for a variety of reasons which I'm sure have been frequently discussed in this forum.

The real shame IMHO, is that Thailand does and still has real potential if it had the will to curb this mindset. Naturally, If it were to really tackle this issue head-on, then there would be a significant improvement in everyday life.

Unfortunately, when you ask the average person of what impression does he or she have on this country, the response is dissapointingly the same ..... corruption being the main topic of discussion.

Question is, will Thailand ever free itself from this social disease ?

The answer naturally lies within, only when Thais accept that there is a problem, will they be able to seriously tackle this issue. I only hope that someday they will.

Edited July 18, 2012 by reader

[Pib]

The cash cow named Corruption also has a nickname of TiT.

[Reasonableman]

How is the Government supposed to reign in corruption when it is the most corrupt force in the county?

-mel.

Well you do have a point. The South is controlled by the Democrats and so is Bangkok. Phuket is probably one of the most corrupt regions of Thailand and the Democrats have been in power for quite some time.

You make a good point that corruption is not partisan.

And to answer Mel1 the way government can do it is by changing procedures - ie: shine a light on the money/projects. Their ability to do that is possible because the government just has to be the electrician... wire the room for electricity, put in the light bulbs, let someone else turn on the lights in the room. Just make the rules disclosing the bidding process, the bids, the winners, even disclosing the bank payments, etc. It is the publics money and given the tools to get the information, someone will always look for the information and, basically, turn on the lights.

When we speak of "government", precisely who are we talking about here?

[Moruya]

How is the Government supposed to reign in corruption when it is the most corrupt force in the county?

-mel.

Well you do have a point. The South is controlled by the Democrats and so is Bangkok. Phuket is probably one of the most corrupt regions of Thailand and the Democrats have been in power for quite some time.

You make a good point that corruption is not partisan.

And to answer Mel1 the way government can do it is by changing procedures - ie: shine a light on the money/projects. Their ability to do that is possible because the government just has to be the electrician... wire the room for electricity, put in the light bulbs, let someone else turn on the lights in the room. Just make the rules disclosing the bidding process, the bids, the winners, even disclosing the bank payments, etc. It is the publics money and given the tools to get the information, someone will always look for the information and, basically, turn on the lights.

The government is far too busy attempting to beatify Herr Thaksin to find the time to tackle corruption, despite Yingluck's empty words

[AleG]

You make a good point that corruption is not partisan.

And to answer Mel1 the way government can do it is by changing procedures - ie: shine a light on the money/projects. Their ability to do that is possible because the government just has to be the electrician... wire the room for electricity, put in the light bulbs, let someone else turn on the lights in the room. Just make the rules disclosing the bidding process, the bids, the winners, even disclosing the bank payments, etc. It is the publics money and given the tools to get the information, someone will always look for the information and, basically, turn on the lights.

Well, agreed.

On the other hand we see people here arguing that there's nothing wrong with the PM (formerly working on real state) having private, secret meetings with real state developers.

[Moruya]

A good example of transparency would be a detailed breakdown of the 350B baht liberated for flood control PRIOR to arriving at that amount. It stinks of I'll fiscal discipline.

A good example of continued transparency would be having those figures available when requested rather than having to wait a month. It stinks of having to cook the books.

[SuneeTH]

The cash cow named Corruption also has a nickname of TiT.

During Mark rule, corruption was reduced to almost zero. Mark was the cleanest PM of Thailand.

Now with Thaksin proxy return to power, corruption not only return, it has got worst.

[Orac]

The cash cow named Corruption also has a nickname of TiT.

During Mark rule, corruption was reduced to almost zero. Mark was the cleanest PM of Thailand.

Now with Thaksin proxy return to power, corruption not only return, it has got worst.

Do you have any proof to back this up since the survey/index being quoted in this article gives a lower rating for the previous government at the end of its term, 3.4 %, than the current one which has just been reduced from 3.6 to 3.5.

[Moruya]

The cash cow named Corruption also has a nickname of TiT.

During Mark rule, corruption was reduced to almost zero. Mark was the cleanest PM of Thailand.

Now with Thaksin proxy return to power, corruption not only return, it has got worst.

Indeed. If Yingluck wants to get serious she should ask for details of all bank accounts at home and abroad and examine all deposits since, say, January 2010

[Thaddeus]

The cash cow named Corruption also has a nickname of TiT.

During Mark rule, corruption was reduced to almost zero. Mark was the cleanest PM of Thailand.

Now with Thaksin proxy return to power, corruption not only return, it has got worst.

Sorry, can't agree with that, Mark himself may have been the most honourable PM Thailand has had, but the people under him, no.

[Unkomoncents]

Worsening graft could damage foreign investors' confidence and Thailand's competitiveness against other countries, she warned.

It's too late. For anyone involved in SE Asian issues, Thailand is legendary for its general incompetence and venality.

[Unkomoncents]

First I would like to know who is this Anti-Corruption Network, who is behind ? As far as I know it's just one of these many "independent" group that has been created by the PAD to annoy the government. If I'm wrong, don't hesitate to correct me.

Then, 30% for a government contract is nothing new.

A study in Great Britain showed that civil servants are among the most corrupted people in the world.

It's true in Thailand, but it's also true in GB and any other western countries. Here I should remind people that government employees in their big majority support the democrats .

Finally to know how corruption is evolving, I'll wait for internationally recognized organization to publish their finding. Here again I should remind the people that previous records showed that things were going noticeably better during Thaksin administration.

This is one of the most ignorant posts I've ever read. There is NO Western country with anywhere NEAR the level of graft in Thailand. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. There's an organization that measures corruption worldwide (as best it can) called Transparency International. I seriously suggest you do a little reading before you start spewing nonsense about how Western countries are as corrupt as Thailand.

A study in Great Britain showed that civil servants are among the most corrupted people in the world.

According to who? Compared to what countries?

[JurgenG]

First I would like to know who is this Anti-Corruption Network, who is behind ? As far as I know it's just one of these many "independent" group that has been created by the PAD to annoy the government. If I'm wrong, don't hesitate to correct

No need to correct you when you state yourself you don't know who the group is....and then go on to guess.

Find out who that group is and then go on and find out about the University in the OP, and THEN return to the thread without your pie in the sky guesses.

.

Obviously you don't know either

As far as I can find this group was created in June 2011 just a few weeks before the foretold victory of the PT party, hence my strong suspicion it is just an other poison pill for the current government.

For the other answers to my post (with the exception of Rubl who made an effort to do some research for his post), I just have to say that "BS" just means that you don't like my post but you have nothing much to say to prove me wrong and the only thing I have for you is this quote from Mark Twain (I believe ..) "If you have nothing to say, say nothing"

Edited July 18, 2012 by JurgenG

[Reasonableman]

First I would like to know who is this Anti-Corruption Network, who is behind ? As far as I know it's just one of these many "independent" group that has been created by the PAD to annoy the government. If I'm wrong, don't hesitate to correct

No need to correct you when you state yourself you don't know who the group is....and then go on to guess.

Find out who that group is and then go on and find out about the University in the OP, and THEN return to the thread without your pie in the sky guesses.

.

Obviously you don't know either

As far as I can find this group was created in June 2011 just a few weeks before the foretold victory of the PT party, hence my strong suspicion it is just an other poison pill for the current government.

For the other answers to my post (with the exception of Rubl who made an effort to do some research for his post), I just have to say that "BS" just means that you don't like my post but you have nothing much to say to prove me wrong and the only thing I have for you is this quote from Mark Twain (I believe ..) "If you have nothing to say, say nothing"

If you cannot substantiate what you say, then you should take your own advise. Knowing your leanings, "I strongly suspect" could potentially be meaningful or equally an expression of baseless paranoia. Hard to distinguish which it is without evidence.

We even had some new members join TV at the same time, and others in Feb-April 2010. What do you think the significance of that might be? Does the Bermuda Triangle exist?

[JurgenG]

If you cannot substantiate what you say, then you should take your own advise. Knowing your leanings, "I strongly suspect" could potentially be meaningful or equally an expression of baseless paranoia. Hard to distinguish which it is without evidence.

We even had some new members join TV at the same time, and others in Feb-April 2010. What do you think the significance of that might be? Does the Bermuda Triangle exist?

I present an opinion based on a related fact.

For your reply, I hesitate between trolling and baiting or complete non sense. In any case, a total waste of bandwidth .

[SuneeTH]

The cash cow named Corruption also has a nickname of TiT.

During Mark rule, corruption was reduced to almost zero. Mark was the cleanest PM of Thailand.

Now with Thaksin proxy return to power, corruption not only return, it has got worst.

Sorry, can't agree with that, Mark himself may have been the most honourable PM Thailand has had, but the people under him, no.

What? You doubt his wife?