Rights Dept Presses For End Of Death Penalty In Thailand

[hawker9000]

"Revenge is not the answer."

This is not about revenge but about making the price of the crime too high to commit the crime.

Doesn't work.

I actually think it does, but if even one murder is committed in a place with the death penalty, then the critics shout, "See! It doesn't work." The fact that someone still murders doesn't mean others haven't been/won't be deterred. Moreover, as soon as we eliminate the death penalty, then we move on to the "rehabilitation vs punishment" argument, whereby the murderer has to eventually be released so he can murder again. Why should society have to risk that, OR foot the bill for the thug's room & board for the rest of his life? When he committed his crime, he hung a sign around his own neck saying "predator". No right to life for such a person. Shoot him, hang him, electrocute or gas him - I really don't care, just get it done. (Yes, I'd be willing to throw the switch. Definitely. I wouldn't enjoy it, but I'd see it as a necessary public service. I might even suggest that one of the jurors who delivers a guilty verdict in a capital case should be be chosen by lottery to have to throw the switch.) There's more humanity in sparing society from the depradations of a known killer, and in being resolute in not tolerating them, than in allowing the criminal's brutality to continue. The statement that executions bring no happiness is typical distraction rhetoric having no point: nobody ever said they do. What executions bring is JUSTICE!

if killing someone is wrong, then killing the killer is justice? No, in my opinion it's just revenge, not justice.

More distraction rhetoric... It's the simple-minded (or those who wish to appeal to the emotionally driven or simple-minded) who whine that it's all about revenge. It's murder that is wrong. As far as I'm concerned, killing a predator is fine. Killing someone in self-defense is fine. Killing someone in defense of others (such as one's family or friends, or even a complete -but innocent - stranger) is fine. One simply no longer has a "right to life" if one has committed a capital crime. Executing such a criminal amounts to defense of innocents in society. Having said all that, if the family of a victim sees it as revenge and finds any solace or satisfaction in it, I'm fine with that, too. Nor for me to throw stones at a victim's family wanting "revenge". And they should be allowed to witness the execution, or even throw the switch if they wish. But even if they want mercy for the brute, it should not be granted. It's not the victim's decision; it's society's (i.e., every citizen's) right to be protected from such criminals and to insist and demonstrate by means of these executions that such behavior can not and will not be tolerated.

[SouthernMan3]

"More distraction rhetoric... It's the simple-minded (or those who wish to appeal to the emotionally driven or simple-minded) who whine that it's all about revenge. It's murder that is wrong. As far as I'm concerned, killing a predator is fine. Killing someone in self-defense is fine. Killing someone in defense of others (such as one's family or friends, or even a complete -but innocent - stranger) is fine. One simply no longer has a "right to life" if one has committed a capital crime. Executing such a criminal amounts to defense of innocents in society. Having said all that, if the family of a victim sees it as revenge and finds any solace or satisfaction in it, I'm fine with that, too. Nor for me to throw stones at a victim's family wanting "revenge". And they should be allowed to witness the execution, or even throw the switch if they wish. But even if they want mercy for the brute, it should not be granted. It's not the victim's decision; it's society's (i.e., every citizen's) right to be protected from such criminals and to insist and demonstrate by means of these executions that such behavior can not and will not be tolerated."

Right on !

Btw, a search on Google will show you how they used to execute people back when the King was stronger.

Makes one sure not to be involved in or around anything shady.

Showed it to one of my Thai friend who has actually kicked the sh*t.

You shoulda seen his eyes.

That night he moved (out of town), threw away his sim and has not told anyone of his old crowd where he lives.

[endure]

What happens when someone who's innocent is convicted and executed? Not only has the state murdered the wrong person but the real perpetrator of the crime is still at large.

[hawker9000]

What happens when someone who's innocent is convicted and executed? Not only has the state murdered the wrong person but the real perpetrator of the crime is still at large.

Very popular question with the bleeding hearts. Let's try and answer it with another question. How often are these "innocents" already convicted felons for other crimes, maybe violent crimes, and police & prosecutors have managed to get this particular crime wrong? Yes, it's tragic to convict the wrong person, more than tragic, but it's even more tragic IMO when an innocent is gunned down by someone already convicted of a murder, who's done time, and then was released on "good behavior" or perhaps after even serving his complete (but far to light) sentence! THAT person has been unjustly executed as well! Or even fellow prisoners killed by one of their peers in stir. Have THEY been "justly executed"? And which of these do you think actually happens more often? Trying again to address the question: granted, many police and prosecutor organizations operate with a far too myopic view of "getting convictions" (i.e., the "statistics", the "body count") rather than actually seeing justice done. Police and prosecutorial misconduct, however, is not a good reason to abandon the death penalty, which society needs. Competent and committed juries and judges, the "beyond any reasonable doubt" standard, and prosecutors who understand their full duty as officers of the court (and not merely as advocates for conviction) are the best defense we have against unjust convictions & executions, not abandonment of the death penalty.

[endure]

http://en.wikipedia..../Birmingham_Six

http://en.wikipedia..../Guildford_Four

http://www.bbc.co.uk...london-18102336

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otland-15127072

http://www.independe...ion-819706.html

http://www.metro.co....-after-27-years

Just with a 2 minute search. BTW I'm not a 'bleeding heart'. I'm a firm believer in justice - all of it including the protection of those accused.

[hawker9000]

http://en.wikipedia..../Birmingham_Six

http://en.wikipedia..../Guildford_Four

http://www.bbc.co.uk...london-18102336

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otland-15127072

http://www.independe...ion-819706.html

http://www.metro.co....-after-27-years

Just with a 2 minute search. BTW I'm not a 'bleeding heart'. I'm a firm believer in justice - all of it including the protection of those accused.

...but not the victims.

[endure]

http://en.wikipedia..../Birmingham_Six

http://en.wikipedia..../Guildford_Four

http://www.bbc.co.uk...london-18102336

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otland-15127072

http://www.independe...ion-819706.html

http://www.metro.co....-after-27-years

Just with a 2 minute search. BTW I'm not a 'bleeding heart'. I'm a firm believer in justice - all of it including the protection of those accused.

...but not the victims.

Including the victims who will not receive justice if those accused didn't actually commit the crime. Just imagine how the victims would feel if an innocent was subject to the death penalty rather than the person who actually committed the crime.

[GiHadOrange]

Death penalty is inhumane. And not just only because an innocent could be wrongly executed.

[hawker9000]

http://en.wikipedia..../Birmingham_Six

http://en.wikipedia..../Guildford_Four

http://www.bbc.co.uk...london-18102336

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otland-15127072

http://www.independe...ion-819706.html

http://www.metro.co....-after-27-years

Just with a 2 minute search. BTW I'm not a 'bleeding heart'. I'm a firm believer in justice - all of it including the protection of those accused.

...but not the victims.

Not ONE of these cases you cite involved anyone being executed. Not one. What are you on about? The one case that comes closest to any relevance to this discussion is the last, wherein the accused spent 27 years in prison because of his conviction, which was based on confessions as well as blood evidence. Geez - the guy told police he did it?! Appeals ARE part of the process. I'm not advocating their elimination.

Birmingham Six - sentenced to life imprisonment, overturned on appeal. Not sentenced to death. Conviction thrown out.

Guildford Four and Macquire Seven - again, sentenced to imprisonment, not death. Convictions also thrown out on appeal.

Sam Hallum - even the title of the article declares the conviction thrown out on appeal.

Colin Norris - sentenced to life, not death. Currently being appealed.

Suzanne Holdsworth - being appealed.

Sean Hodgsen - sentenced to life; served 27yrs; conviction has now been "quashed".

[sysardman]

Thailand's justice system isn't exactly world class. Yes, I am saying consider the people that may actually be innocent. It happens in first world countries. Face it, it happens more in countries like Thailand.

I understood that everbody in jail is innocent!!!. Gone are the times of 'it's a fair cop guvn'r'. Today's criminal is a master of art at twisting and conniving to gain sympathy for 'crimes' they didn't commit. Unfortunately the legal system is now supporting people like this because it's good economics.

[Jingthing]

Thailand's justice system isn't exactly world class. Yes, I am saying consider the people that may actually be innocent. It happens in first world countries. Face it, it happens more in countries like Thailand.

I understood that everbody in jail is innocent!!!. Gone are the times of 'it's a fair cop guvn'r'. Today's criminal is a master of art at twisting and conniving to gain sympathy for 'crimes' they didn't commit. Unfortunately the legal system is now supporting people like this because it's good economics.

It's not black and white, dude.

[sysardman]

"Revenge is not the answer."

This is not about revenge but about making the price of the crime too high to commit the crime.

I doubt that it will impress bad guys, if you increase from lifetime in jail to death sentence.

It will certainly stop them re-offending!!!!!

[sysardman]

Thailand's justice system isn't exactly world class. Yes, I am saying consider the people that may actually be innocent. It happens in first world countries. Face it, it happens more in countries like Thailand.

I understood that everbody in jail is innocent!!!. Gone are the times of 'it's a fair cop guvn'r'. Today's criminal is a master of art at twisting and conniving to gain sympathy for 'crimes' they didn't commit. Unfortunately the legal system is now supporting people like this because it's good economics.

It's not black and white, dude.

What's racism got to do with it? sorry just joking 'cos I don't really get the point you're making.

[sysardman]

http://en.wikipedia..../Birmingham_Six

http://en.wikipedia..../Guildford_Four

http://www.bbc.co.uk...london-18102336

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otland-15127072

http://www.independe...ion-819706.html

http://www.metro.co....-after-27-years

Just with a 2 minute search. BTW I'm not a 'bleeding heart'. I'm a firm believer in justice - all of it including the protection of those accused.

...but not the victims.

Not ONE of these cases you cite involved anyone being executed. Not one. What are you on about? The one case that comes closest to any relevance to this discussion is the last, wherein the accused spent 27 years in prison because of his conviction, which was based on confessions as well as blood evidence. Geez - the guy told police he did it?! Appeals ARE part of the process. I'm not advocating their elimination.

Birmingham Six - sentenced to life imprisonment, overturned on appeal. Not sentenced to death. Conviction thrown out.

Guildford Four and Macquire Seven - again, sentenced to imprisonment, not death. Convictions also thrown out on appeal.

Sam Hallum - even the title of the article declares the conviction thrown out on appeal.

Colin Norris - sentenced to life, not death. Currently being appealed.

Suzanne Holdsworth - being appealed.

Sean Hodgsen - sentenced to life; served 27yrs; conviction has now been "quashed".

One thing about these examples is that these people haven't actually been proved innocent, they've just got some smarmy lawyers to find loopholes to declare the convictions unsafe.

Edited July 21, 2012 by sysardman

[SouthernMan3]

"Revenge is not the answer."

This is not about revenge but about making the price of the crime too high to commit the crime.

I doubt that it will impress bad guys, if you increase from lifetime in jail to death sentence.

It will certainly stop them re-offending!!!!!

That is one obvious benefit !

[Para]

people like drugdealers kill whole generations of kids , killers, psychopats, etc will never become a part of our society they just will destroy whatever is good in it

Interesting opinion......

You say drug dealers kill a whole generation or create a society that doesn't comply with 'correct' society, yes?

So the question has to be 'whey do people take drugs'? All drug use is escapism be it aspirin to escape from a headache, morphine for pain OR what someone has deemed an 'illegal' drug to escape the pain of the world, the society they live in?

Yabba was available at truck stops in Thailand till the Mid 70's in fact it was only called Ya-ba after Thaksin came into power before that it was called Ya-ma or 'horse drug' meaning it gave you to power of a horse to work longer and harder. It was actively given by work bosses to their staff to get better productivity.

Don't you think that here in Thailand especially the society as a general for a person growing up outside of the privileged Bangkok minority isn't close to a prison sentence already?

As someone posted earlier given the choice between death or actually doing 25+ years in a Thai prison I would take the bullet without a seconds hesitation.

Drug use is a sign of a failing society do you wanna fix the symptom or resolve the cause? Drugs are here to stay UNTIL the problem is fixed where by people don't need to escape from their lives.

Then we have the TV lemmings 'string 'um up' 'kill them' morons who are so obviously unconnected with Thai life its embarrassing reading the post after post of the same BS. Execution is legalized murder so the mindless lemming posters here are OK with murder as long as its legal?

Get a life and a brain for yourself then take a look at Thai life away from your nice houses and condo's where the majority live on 200BT a day and then tell me you wouldn't mind escaping for a fe hours from it!

What gets me even more is the fact the drugs are often brought into Thailand from neighboring countries by the army and given to the police to distribute.

You want to stop the drug rot as well as all the other corruption rot that is destroying this country then start at the top.

Rant over.

[tlansford]

http://en.wikipedia..../Birmingham_Six

http://en.wikipedia..../Guildford_Four

http://www.bbc.co.uk...london-18102336

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otland-15127072

http://www.independe...ion-819706.html

http://www.metro.co....-after-27-years

Just with a 2 minute search. BTW I'm not a 'bleeding heart'. I'm a firm believer in justice - all of it including the protection of those accused.

...but not the victims.

Not ONE of these cases you cite involved anyone being executed. Not one. What are you on about? The one case that comes closest to any relevance to this discussion is the last, wherein the accused spent 27 years in prison because of his conviction, which was based on confessions as well as blood evidence. Geez - the guy told police he did it?! Appeals ARE part of the process. I'm not advocating their elimination.

Birmingham Six - sentenced to life imprisonment, overturned on appeal. Not sentenced to death. Conviction thrown out.

Guildford Four and Macquire Seven - again, sentenced to imprisonment, not death. Convictions also thrown out on appeal.

Sam Hallum - even the title of the article declares the conviction thrown out on appeal.

Colin Norris - sentenced to life, not death. Currently being appealed.

Suzanne Holdsworth - being appealed.

Sean Hodgsen - sentenced to life; served 27yrs; conviction has now been "quashed".

One thing about these examples is that these people haven't actually been proved innocent, they've just got some smarmy lawyers to find loopholes to declare the convictions unsafe.

just shoot 'em right after the guilty verdict.

And for good measure take out their smarmy lawyers, too.

[sysardman]

people like drugdealers kill whole generations of kids , killers, psychopats, etc will never become a part of our society they just will destroy whatever is good in it

Interesting opinion......

You say drug dealers kill a whole generation or create a society that doesn't comply with 'correct' society, yes?

So the question has to be 'whey do people take drugs'? All drug use is escapism be it aspirin to escape from a headache, morphine for pain OR what someone has deemed an 'illegal' drug to escape the pain of the world, the society they live in?

Yabba was available at truck stops in Thailand till the Mid 70's in fact it was only called Ya-ba after Thaksin came into power before that it was called Ya-ma or 'horse drug' meaning it gave you to power of a horse to work longer and harder. It was actively given by work bosses to their staff to get better productivity.

Don't you think that here in Thailand especially the society as a general for a person growing up outside of the privileged Bangkok minority isn't close to a prison sentence already?

As someone posted earlier given the choice between death or actually doing 25+ years in a Thai prison I would take the bullet without a seconds hesitation.

Drug use is a sign of a failing society do you wanna fix the symptom or resolve the cause? Drugs are here to stay UNTIL the problem is fixed where by people don't need to escape from their lives.

Then we have the TV lemmings 'string 'um up' 'kill them' morons who are so obviously unconnected with Thai life its embarrassing reading the post after post of the same BS. Execution is legalized murder so the mindless lemming posters here are OK with murder as long as its legal?

Get a life and a brain for yourself then take a look at Thai life away from your nice houses and condo's where the majority live on 200BT a day and then tell me you wouldn't mind escaping for a fe hours from it!

What gets me even more is the fact the drugs are often brought into Thailand from neighboring countries by the army and given to the police to distribute.

You want to stop the drug rot as well as all the other corruption rot that is destroying this country then start at the top.

Rant over.

Nice post but a few dodgy points made like "Drug use is a sign of a failing society"???? really, I thought it was a sign of an enlightened and tolerant society. If you study classic literature, music and art you will find many of the greats were high when composing their masterpieces

If the consumer world keeps expanding the way it is then drugs will soon be the only way of escaping for many people. Travel will become too expensive, electricity for TV's and electronic gizmos will also become too expensive - it's all gloom and doom for the future, pass the kouchie mon!!!!!

Edited July 22, 2012 by sysardman

[longtom]

Remember that Thai justice minister (or similar) who let it slip a few years ago that he's convinced at leat 20% of Thailand's convicts are innocent?

[hellodolly]

Many would probably prefer facing the death penalty than a life sentence in Thai prison. I think the BIGGER human rights issue for Thailand is improving the living conditions in their prisons.

Well you are pretty close. When I was taking criminology in Canada. The instructor said that execution would not help a bit murders would go up. People are not as afraid to die as they are to live the rest of their life in jail. This photogrepher was taking pictures ondeath row. Would he be happy if they elimanated the death penalty and just klive that way for the rest of their life. Did he interview any of them and ask them if it would be better to live the next 25 years this way than be executed next week.

All cuntries are different. I have a friend who says if they had to go back to the states they would commit a crime and get locked u with free room and board. There are a lot of nice jails over there. Here in Thailand not so good.

I am not a strong supporter of the death penalty but there comes a point where it is a dam_n good idea.

In Vancouver Canada there was fellow who would kidnap sexually abuse kids and kill them I believe the count was 6. They do not have the death penalty there so he was looked up for 25 years at a huge cost to the tax payers money. They had to have extra security on him to protect him from his fellow inmates who did not really approve of that crime. Was that justice to the tax payers. No it was proof of what my criminology instructor said when you go to court you can be sure legal will be done and legal does not always equal justice.

That man deserved to die.

[hellodolly]

Many would probably prefer facing the death penalty than a life sentence in Thai prison. I think the BIGGER human rights issue for Thailand is improving the living conditions in their prisons.

Well you are pretty close. When I was taking criminology in Canada. The instructor said that execution would not help a bit the murder rate would go up. People are not as afraid to die as they are to live the rest of their life in jail. This photographer was taking pictures on death row. Would he be happy if they eliminated the death penalty and just live that way for the rest of their life. Did he interview any of them and ask them if it would be better to live the next 25 years this way than be executed next week.

All countries are different. I have a friend who says if they had to go back to the states they would commit a crime and get locked up with free room and board. There are a lot of nice jails over there. Here in Thailand not so good. Actually not even close.

I am not a strong supporter of the death penalty but there comes a point where it is a dam_n good idea.

In Vancouver Canada there was fellow who would kidnap sexually abuse kids and kill them I believe the count was 6. They do not have the death penalty there so he was locked up for 25 years at a huge cost to the tax payers money. They had to have extra security on him to protect him from his fellow inmates who did not really approve of that crime. Was that justice to the tax payers. No it was proof of what my criminology instructor said when you go to court you can be sure legal will be done and legal does not always equal justice. The two can be completely different things.

That man deserved to die.

Edited July 22, 2012 by hellodolly

[endure]

I have a friend who says if they had to go back to the states they would commit a crime and get locked u with free room and board. There are a lot of nice jails over there. Here in Thailand not so good.

Has your friend ever spent any time in gaol previously?

[rijb]

What's wrong with revenge? The deterrent is the slime ball won't be able to do it again. Governments kill a lot more innocent people in wars than their justice systems. It's easy for people to be against the death penalty when they've (or their loved ones) never been a victim of a crime.

[hellodolly]

http://en.wikipedia..../Birmingham_Six

http://en.wikipedia..../Guildford_Four

http://www.bbc.co.uk...london-18102336

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otland-15127072

http://www.independe...ion-819706.html

http://www.metro.co....-after-27-years

Just with a 2 minute search. BTW I'm not a 'bleeding heart'. I'm a firm believer in justice - all of it including the protection of those accused.

...but not the victims.

Including the victims who will not receive justice if those accused didn't actually commit the crime. Just imagine how the victims would feel if an innocent was subject to the death penalty rather than the person who actually committed the crime.

Most people who are convicted and sentenced to death are done so because they took a life.

That means their victims can no longer care. They are dead. They can tel the convicted man how sorry they are when he gets over there.

I personally am more concerned about the rights of the victims than I am of the rights of the guilty. Most people who are concerned about the rights of the guilty do nothing to help the victims. In fact most of them are called lawyers.

[hellodolly]

I have a friend who says if they had to go back to the states they would commit a crime and get locked u with free room and board. There are a lot of nice jails over there. Here in Thailand not so good.

Has your friend ever spent any time in gaol previously?

They don't have gaol in the states.

[endure]

I have a friend who says if they had to go back to the states they would commit a crime and get locked u with free room and board. There are a lot of nice jails over there. Here in Thailand not so good.

Has your friend ever spent any time in gaol previously?

They don't have gaol in the states.

The answer's no then?

[jerrysteve]

If you commit murder you get the death penalty, very simple...The Thas do not live by the principles set down by the Great Buddha nor do any other of the hyporcritcs of any regligious following live by their principles.

I personally see nothing wrong with the death penality. If you catch someone raping your daughter, killem right then and there. no questions, no lengthy trial at tax payers expense...bang band adios MRF

[jerrysteve]

^{Child molesters, murderers, etc...get the death penality...a great way to rid of the scum.}