Bt300 Minimum Wage A Failure, Survey Says

[tlansford]

- deleted - Well they weren't the only ones thinking about the ordinary people as you sarcastically put it. I mean the Teflon Don himself, abhisit would never have proposed such a high minimum wage in one hit as a populist vote grabber, would he, oh wait a minute

Labor Min: Minimum wage rise to 300 THB pending PM’s clarification

BANGKOK, 28 February 2011 (NNT) – The Ministry of Labor is taking a wait-and-see approach to the policy to raise the minimum wage to 300 THB per day as mentioned by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

Labor Minister Chalermchai Sri-on chose to reserve his comment on the daily minimum wage increase to 300 THB, insisting that details of the policy would need to come from Prime Minister Abhisit since it was unveiled to the public by him.

The Minister said he was only waiting for the Prime Minister to hand down the policy, after which he would convene with relevant officials to discuss its implementation. He is also looking forward to hearing Mr Abhisit’s motives behind the wage adjustment.

http://thainews.prd....id=255402280016

Well now, isn't that an odd news article you posted there, oh, it's from The Public Relations Department i.e a mouthpiece of the current government.

Find me another article from any other news source that states AV made a 300b promise around the time that it states, you won't, as that is the only one.

It states that it was written on the 28th Feb 2011, but it would not surprise me if it was written last week and back dated so that PTP can say "Look, look, he said it first"

Looking deeper reveals this.

This is Google's cache of

http://thaifinancial...-clarification/

. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on 15 Jul 2012 16:55:16 GMT. The

current page

could have changed in the meantime.

Learn more

Other publications that were written around Feb 2011 tell a completely different story.

// Bangkok Post link removed as per forum rule 31 //

http://asiancorrespo...ection-chances/

http://english.peopl...63/7302479.html

http://www.bloomberg...-estimates.html

"Well now, isn't that an odd news article you posted there, oh, it's from The Public Relations Department i.e a mouthpiece of the current government."

in 2011...

'BANGKOK, 28 February 2011 (NNT)"

Edited July 21, 2012 by metisdead

[Thaddeus]

Well now, isn't that an odd news article you posted there, oh, it's from The Public Relations Department i.e a mouthpiece of the current government.

Find me another article from any other news source that states AV made a 300b promise around the time that it states, you won't, as that is the only one.

It states that it was written on the 28th Feb 2011, but it would not surprise me if it was written last week and back dated so that PTP can say "Look, look, he said it first"

Looking deeper reveals this.

This is Google's cache of

http://thaifinancial...-clarification/

. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on 15 Jul 2012 16:55:16 GMT. The

current page

could have changed in the meantime.

Learn more

Other publications that were written around Feb 2011 tell a completely different story.

// Bangkok Post link removed as per forum rule 31 //

http://asiancorrespo...ection-chances/

http://english.peopl...63/7302479.html

http://www.bloomberg...-estimates.html

"Well now, isn't that an odd news article you posted there, oh, it's from The Public Relations Department i.e a mouthpiece of the current government."

in 2011...

'BANGKOK, 28 February 2011 (NNT)"

Yet again, more proof that you only read the part of a post that you can contradict and not the whole thing.

Edited July 21, 2012 by metisdead

[Thaddeus]

300 B a day is peanuts for the business. Not for the employee. The average increase in April was 80-85 B - about 2 euros / day. If that is going to put a business out of business, then IMO, the business was dead already.

Only if you assume that the workers were already earning 215/220 B already, which many do not.

And what you are completely failing to understand is that the election posters promised 300B a day for everyone, everyone, even the field workers were believing it without realising that would mean almost doubling their salaries, and that isn't either practical or economically viable for small operations.

Their options if they had to abide by this would be either sack half the workforce and hope the remainder work twice as hard to keep their jobs, or mechanise, which would involve sacking all of them, the ones that voted for this promise without thinking of the consequences.

Do you have any experience of the largest part of Thailand at all, that bit outside your holiday destination.

[bhakta]

What I have noticed is the cost of more or less everything rose the moment the wage law went in effect. Wages are a matter of supply and demand, and skills, not simply a government mandate.

[Unkomoncents]

Thailand is a completely lawless country. The laws are never enforced and no one is EVER genuine about changing the status quo. Paying heed to anything the Thai government says is like taking testimony from an individual with the most pathological case of dishonesty known to man. Even the Syrian government has more credibility than the sadness Thailand musters politically.

"Even the Syrian government has more credibility than the sadness Thailand musters politically."

I don't care how partisan you are this statement is probably one of the most stupid statements I have seen on this forum.

I am not aware of the present government using a policy of attacking it's own people with helicopter gunships and artillery and then blaming it on terrorists.

The Syrian government released yesterday's report of the attack that killed Assad's brother in law. The Western media ate it up. Assad's regime also admitted that the Syrian Ambassador to Iraq had stepped down. I cannot remember a single instance of that type of honesty from the Thai side. Can you? In the last statement I read from the Thai government concerning the violence in the South of Thailand, the official in question recommended that if the people in the south don't like Thailand, they should leave (in the Bangkok Post). This isn't about war-crimes, remember, it's about credibility (i.e. openness and honesty in presenting information).

How am I partisan? What side biases me? And keep in mind, the Syrian regime is not attacking those from its own ethnic group. This is not a simple case of government against populace (a la Tienanmen Square). The Syrian fiasco is an ethnic conflict/civil war scenario.

Also, because "stupid" is a two-syllable word, the rules of English state that the superlative for this adjective should be "stupidest". Thanks, though, for having a wildly emotional reaction to my post.

I have to agree with phiphidon on this one. You have hit a new low in stupidity. Or if you like lack of smarts.

Syria is in a state of rebellion where the army has killed over 20,000 civilians. Many of them just cowering in there homes unarmed.

There has been many people in seats of power turn against the government. And you are all bent out of shape because Assad's brother died in the conflict.

I have absolutely no use for Thaksin and his minions. But compared to Assad he is a saint.

Minions includes clones.

Good thing nobody cares what you (or Phiphidon) say. Otherwise, I would be compelled to care about your analysis of how the Syrian government is more murderous (the most obvious statement of a fact available; thanks for opening my mind) than the Thai government (noticeably, I said nothing of the sort). But I'm sure you'd like to keep presenting your useless facts about Syria as though you're the world's expert. You and Phiphidon started businesses in Thailand. Nice! I know a lot of Thais that would laugh at you. I'm sure you're very middle-class (i.e. politically and economically insignificant).

[rixalex]

There you go again with your assumptions about what I think.

300 B a day is peanuts for the business. Not for the employee. The average increase in April was 80-85 B - about 2 euros / day. If that is going to put a business out of business, then IMO, the business was dead already.

No, IMO, the evasion of the law, not paying minimum wage, is about greed, not business economics.

Whilst i agree that 80-85 baht isn't an awful lot of money by Thai standards, i do hate that all too common practice of stating a second / third world currency in the equivalent amount of a first world currency, in this case Euros. It is in my opinion used to intentionally distort certain situations. In Thailand 80 baht can buy two or three basic but perfectly edible and nutritious hot meals. How many edible and perfectly nutritious hot meals can you buy in Europe for two Euros? Might get you half a meal if you are lucky.

[tlansford]

Well now, isn't that an odd news article you posted there, oh, it's from The Public Relations Department i.e a mouthpiece of the current government.

Find me another article from any other news source that states AV made a 300b promise around the time that it states, you won't, as that is the only one.

It states that it was written on the 28th Feb 2011, but it would not surprise me if it was written last week and back dated so that PTP can say "Look, look, he said it first"

Looking deeper reveals this.

This is Google's cache of

http://thaifinancial...-clarification/

. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on 15 Jul 2012 16:55:16 GMT. The

current page

could have changed in the meantime.

Learn more

Other publications that were written around Feb 2011 tell a completely different story.

// Bangkok Post link removed as per forum rule 31 //

http://asiancorrespo...ection-chances/

http://english.peopl...63/7302479.html

http://www.bloomberg...-estimates.html

"Well now, isn't that an odd news article you posted there, oh, it's from The Public Relations Department i.e a mouthpiece of the current government."

in 2011...

'BANGKOK, 28 February 2011 (NNT)"

Yet again, more proof that you only read the part of a post that you can contradict and not the whole thing.

I believe that you said "mouthpiece of the current gov't" and the referenced article is from Feb 2011, before the current gov't was elected.

And you're correct that I did not read the rest of your post.

[rubl]

Yet again, more proof that you only read the part of a post that you can contradict and not the whole thing.

I believe that you said "mouthpiece of the current gov't" and the referenced article is from Feb 2011, before the current gov't was elected.

And you're correct that I did not read the rest of your post.

I haven't followed this discussion, but I just want to say I appreciate honesty. So, well done Tom

[tlansford]

There you go again with your assumptions about what I think.

300 B a day is peanuts for the business. Not for the employee. The average increase in April was 80-85 B - about 2 euros / day. If that is going to put a business out of business, then IMO, the business was dead already.

No, IMO, the evasion of the law, not paying minimum wage, is about greed, not business economics.

Whilst i agree that 80-85 baht isn't an awful lot of money by Thai standards, i do hate that all too common practice of stating a second / third world currency in the equivalent amount of a first world currency, in this case Euros. It is in my opinion used to intentionally distort certain situations. In Thailand 80 baht can buy two or three basic but perfectly edible and nutritious hot meals. How many edible and perfectly nutritious hot meals can you buy in Europe for two Euros? Might get you half a meal if you are lucky.

There was no intention on my part to distort. I just think in 2 currencies.

[Unkomoncents]

Thailand is a completely lawless country. The laws are never enforced and no one is EVER genuine about changing the status quo. Paying heed to anything the Thai government says is like taking testimony from an individual with the most pathological case of dishonesty known to man. Even the Syrian government has more credibility than the sadness Thailand musters politically.

"Even the Syrian government has more credibility than the sadness Thailand musters politically."

I don't care how partisan you are this statement is probably one of the most stupid statements I have seen on this forum.

I am not aware of the present government using a policy of attacking it's own people with helicopter gunships and artillery and then blaming it on terrorists.

The Syrian government released yesterday's report of the attack that killed Assad's brother in law. The Western media ate it up. Assad's regime also admitted that the Syrian Ambassador to Iraq had stepped down. I cannot remember a single instance of that type of honesty from the Thai side. Can you? In the last statement I read from the Thai government concerning the violence in the South of Thailand, the official in question recommended that if the people in the south don't like Thailand, they should leave (in the Bangkok Post). This isn't about war-crimes, remember, it's about credibility (i.e. openness and honesty in presenting information).

How am I partisan? What side biases me? And keep in mind, the Syrian regime is not attacking those from its own ethnic group. This is not a simple case of government against populace (a la Tienanmen Square). The Syrian fiasco is an ethnic conflict/civil war scenario.

Also, because "stupid" is a two-syllable word, the rules of English state that the superlative for this adjective should be "stupidest". Thanks, though, for having a wildly emotional reaction to my post.

I have to agree with phiphidon on this one. You have hit a new low in stupidity. Or if you like lack of smarts.

Syria is in a state of rebellion where the army has killed over 20,000 civilians. Many of them just cowering in there homes unarmed.

There has been many people in seats of power turn against the government. And you are all bent out of shape because Assad's brother died in the conflict.

I have absolutely no use for Thaksin and his minions. But compared to Assad he is a saint.

Minions includes clones.

http://www.asiarisk.com/exsum.pdf

[OzMick]

To Ozmick,

" ..............Or are you happy to maintain your smug attitude and profit margin while your workers allowance above minimum for their skill and dedication is eroded by this legislation? "

An emphatic YES.

Yours in smugness...........

That's good Phil, but try to understand that your workers my not be too happy when everybody around them is getting a pay rise and they are not. And they see inflation caused by this eating away at their real income.

If you wish to maintain your profit margin and a large percentage increase in wages costs pushing up your price might lead you to be uncompetitive - then you may feel a little sympathy for the thousands of other businesses in the same boat.

[MrRealDeal]

The problem comes from the fact that so many people work for such low wages and the raise was to much to fast for the population to digest. What they should have done was implement the uni people first to help motavated education and because higher skilled people making more has less of a negetive impact than lower skilled people making more on inflation and the overall economy. Then they should have increased the min wages by some small amount each month to allow people to slowly adjust to it to prevent people from complaining or not paying.

The end result however would be the poor would still be poor and not really any better off , and the middle class who might be considered upper middle class , the people in the +- 100,000 bht a month range would be the worst off because they would get stuck with the inflation and not get additional raises unless tied to inflation , some are of course.

This is one way the middle class gets smaller over time.

The real problem is that their is no real wage distinction between an unskilled worker and a fairly high skilled worker , what needs to happen is to somehow get the skilled workers higher pay , the uni part was actually a good idea , but skilled blue collar workers need to be paid more as well , in the West this was done with Unions for the most part , but when you have different levels for different skills it motavates people to learn more and be more productive as well.

I would of course prefer the private sector to solve it not the gov , but when you have a more leveled pay structure raising the low end has less impact because less people are in it and it allows more people to strive for a higher and obtainable level of employment. But it's pretty hard politicaly to sell the idea of mandating a medium wage for blue collar workers with no certificates to prove they deserve it.

So anyhow the problem is not in poor people not getting enough it's in the fact that skilled workers are paid the same as a fast food workers so even if you raise the wage to 1000 bht but don't have a more sensible pay structure you will not accomplish much of anything except reducing the middle class. I'm not all that in favor of Unions but that would be one way skilled workers and the private sector could solve that part of the problem and leave gov out of it. It's not the Unions I am against I guess it's union coruption that seems to come along with it.

[annabel]

Ok , so if you pay your staff on a monthly basis with 1 day off per week, is the 300 Baht per day based on a 26 day for months that have 30 days and 37 days for those months that have 31 days and then averaged out ....??.. So that would mean an average monthly salary of about / approx 8,000 Baht + Benefits and whatever ... That is for an inexperienced worker in the field you require .... If you want someone with more experience and qualifications then you are looking at what ...?? 10,000 / 12,000 Baht a month ...?? So Yea!! That could be a bit strenuous on a small scale business for sure ////

[tingtongfarang]

out of curiousity tonight i asked two ladies i know well how much they earn per day, The first (single mother) works as an accountant and her salery works out to 160bht per day, she trades on forex in her spare time to make enough to live and keep her daughter in school,

The second works as a supervisor in a resteraunt kitchen and earns 67bht per day but gets free accomodation which means she shares a wooden shack with many of the other staff both male and female.

[rubl]

out of curiousity tonight i asked two ladies i know well how much they earn per day, The first (single mother) works as an accountant and her salery works out to 160bht per day, she trades on forex in her spare time to make enough to live and keep her daughter in school,

The second works as a supervisor in a resteraunt kitchen and earns 67bht per day but gets free accomodation which means she shares a wooden shack with many of the other staff both male and female.

No offence meant. I do not doubt what you write, I would only like to know the location. It is witihin the seven provinces the 300B/day minimum was declared, or outside?

[Thaddeus]

And you're correct that I did not read the rest of your post.

So, you didn't read the rest of my post, but commented anyway, on just one part of it..... go back, read the articles I linked, then I will listen to you.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Thaddeus

[Sayonarax]

"Even the Syrian government has more credibility than the sadness Thailand musters politically."

What are you high? If that's how you feel, then go live in Syria and tell us how rosey it is.

[rixalex]

There you go again with your assumptions about what I think.

300 B a day is peanuts for the business. Not for the employee. The average increase in April was 80-85 B - about 2 euros / day. If that is going to put a business out of business, then IMO, the business was dead already.

No, IMO, the evasion of the law, not paying minimum wage, is about greed, not business economics.

Whilst i agree that 80-85 baht isn't an awful lot of money by Thai standards, i do hate that all too common practice of stating a second / third world currency in the equivalent amount of a first world currency, in this case Euros. It is in my opinion used to intentionally distort certain situations. In Thailand 80 baht can buy two or three basic but perfectly edible and nutritious hot meals. How many edible and perfectly nutritious hot meals can you buy in Europe for two Euros? Might get you half a meal if you are lucky.

There was no intention on my part to distort. I just think in 2 currencies.

Which is fine for your own personal affairs, but when examining the economic situation in Thailand, it is daft and distorts the situation... intentionally or otherwise. It's not like you are reporting for CNN to viewers who have no idea what the value of the Baht is. I think we all here know what 80 Baht can buy you, without being told what it is in Euros, don't you?

[tlansford]

And you're correct that I did not read the rest of your post.

So, you didn't read the rest of my post, but commented anyway, on just one part of it..... go back, read the articles I linked, then I will listen to you.

I don't care if you do.

[Jawnie]

Pitiful. This is the main problem with capitalism, its unequal distribution of wealth. The exploitation of Thai workers is an abomination which this law was intended to begin to correct. How can the business owners and corporate executives sleep at night knowing full well they are maintaining the poverty life-styles of their fellow Thais? Despicable, selfish, and cowardly.

[tlansford]

There you go again with your assumptions about what I think.

300 B a day is peanuts for the business. Not for the employee. The average increase in April was 80-85 B - about 2 euros / day. If that is going to put a business out of business, then IMO, the business was dead already.

No, IMO, the evasion of the law, not paying minimum wage, is about greed, not business economics.

Whilst i agree that 80-85 baht isn't an awful lot of money by Thai standards, i do hate that all too common practice of stating a second / third world currency in the equivalent amount of a first world currency, in this case Euros. It is in my opinion used to intentionally distort certain situations. In Thailand 80 baht can buy two or three basic but perfectly edible and nutritious hot meals. How many edible and perfectly nutritious hot meals can you buy in Europe for two Euros? Might get you half a meal if you are lucky.

There was no intention on my part to distort. I just think in 2 currencies.

Which is fine for your own personal affairs, but when examining the economic situation in Thailand, it is daft and distorts the situation... intentionally or otherwise. It's not like you are reporting for CNN to viewers who have no idea what the value of the Baht is. I think we all here know what 80 Baht can buy you, without being told what it is in Euros, don't you?

How does stating 80 Bhat / 2 € cause distortion? IMO it doesn't. It is besides the point anyway.

80 Bhat is peanuts for any business, even a small family business. Either the job needs to be done and provides a value (significantly) greater than the 80 Bhat increase or the job doesn't need to be done.

The minimum wage is a floor. It is a support for society. It existed before the PTP gov't it will exist after. It has gone up in the past, it will go up in the future. Businesses have whined and evaded compliance in the past, they are doing so now, and they will do so in the future, too.

IMO, businesses need to stop screwing their employees, comply with the law, and get on with running their business. The new minimum wage is much less of a threat to their business than poor management.

[Thaddeus]

And you're correct that I did not read the rest of your post.

So, you didn't read the rest of my post, but commented anyway, on just one part of it..... go back, read the articles I linked, then I will listen to you.

I don't care if you do.

You should expand that to, you don't care about anything that doesn't agree with you, that would be more accurate.

[OzMick]

Pitiful. This is the main problem with capitalism, its unequal distribution of wealth. The exploitation of Thai workers is an abomination which this law was intended to begin to correct. How can the business owners and corporate executives sleep at night knowing full well they are maintaining the poverty life-styles of their fellow Thais? Despicable, selfish, and cowardly.

Most of the businesses in Thailand are small family enterprises, and quite often the nett income of the family workers does not equal the new minimum wage. Should we legislate fro minimum profits too, or simply allow the inflation caused by lump increases in wages to reduce the lifestyles of these people?

Other businesses have incomes that allow for the owners to have a reasonable income greater than the wage they pay their employees. They must be allowed earnings to compensate for their capital outlay and entrepreneurship, otherwise businesses will never be started. Why should they be penalised with a savage increase in labour costs, giving them the choice of reducing already slim margins or increasing costs so as to become uncompetitive?

The B300/day policy was not aimed at equal distribution of wealth but buying of votes from the uneducated and gullible who could not foresee the likely consequences.

[tlansford]

And you're correct that I did not read the rest of your post.

So, you didn't read the rest of my post, but commented anyway, on just one part of it..... go back, read the articles I linked, then I will listen to you.

I don't care if you do.

You should expand that to, you don't care about anything that doesn't agree with you, that would be more accurate.

No, I said i don't care if you listen to me, and that is what I mean.

Your comment was incorrect, and your supposition that it was back-dated is just that and nothing more.

If you actually have proof that the article date is incorrect, and that it was recently published, then post it. That would actually be interesting, if it were true.

[rubl]

"Smaller firms account for about 78 percent of total employment and contribute 37 percent to GDP, according to the Office of Small and Medium Enterprises Promotion."

The seven provinces had a minimum wage of 200 - 224 Baht/day, te highest in Phuket if I remember correctly. So 300B/day is a 30 - 50% increase. For other provinces it could go up to almost 90%.

Peanuts for some, but inflationary pressure for all. Market regulation by the government should help stabilise and slowly improve, not distort.

[Thaddeus]

Your comment was incorrect, and your supposition that it was back-dated is just that and nothing more.

If you actually have proof that the article date is incorrect, and that it was recently published, then post it. That would actually be interesting, if it were true.

It was a supposition. But if you read the other 4 links I included in that post from other popular news agencies who all state that Abhisit was proposing a 25% increase in minimum wage to be phased in over 2 years.

Given that Abhisit does not have a reputation for making pie-in-the-sky promises and there is only one, only one article on the whole internet that I could find saying that he did, it sparked my curiosity.

Curiosity doesn't just kill cats.

[apetley]

My wifes aunt runs a small restaurant in Kanchanaburi where the minimum wage is not yet enforced at 300 bht.

She pays 2 labourers 150 bht each per day.

I asked her what she would do when she had to pay 300.

One of them would be leaving was her reply.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

[hellodolly]

Pitiful. This is the main problem with capitalism, its unequal distribution of wealth. The exploitation of Thai workers is an abomination which this law was intended to begin to correct. How can the business owners and corporate executives sleep at night knowing full well they are maintaining the poverty life-styles of their fellow Thais? Despicable, selfish, and cowardly.

Some how I think the people who lived under communism in the USSR would have a different opinion than you do. Many of them would have welcomed those ideas. Jut my thought on the subject. I believe your system of government and life would be found in a convent of nuns. And even there I am sure they rely on capitalism to a degree.

[hellodolly]

Tiansford

you have stated

"How does stating 80 Bhat / 2 € cause distortion? IMO it doesn't. It is besides the point anyway.

80 Bhat is peanuts for any business, even a small family business. Either the job needs to be done and provides a value (significantly) greater than the 80 Bhat increase or the job doesn't need to be done.

The minimum wage is a floor. It is a support for society. It existed before the PTP gov't it will exist after. It has gone up in the past, it will go up in the future. Businesses have whined and evaded compliance in the past, they are doing so now, and they will do so in the future, too.

IMO, businesses need to stop screwing their employees, comply with the law, and get on with running their business. The new minimum wage is much less of a threat to their business than poor management."

I ask you several things

First off what the %#$@$&*(is (=

I live in Thailand and we use baht's here. not German Marks or what ever you are on about.

Secondly you are correct 8o baht is peanuts to most business. But 80 baht a day to 1,000 people a day is not peanuts. If you really believe that it is peanuts I will open a bank account for you to transfer your idea of peanuts into.

Also the little old ladies you see on the street with a pole over there shoulder and baskets on each end with merchandise for sale might think a little bit different about 80 baht a day being peanuts. When I get this bank account open will you be putting your idea of peanuts into it every day?

[rixalex]

How does stating 80 Bhat / 2 € cause distortion?

Because when you quote a figure in Euros the natural thing to do is to imagine trying to spend this sum in Europe, not Thailand. The value of 2 Euros in France is much less in terms of what it can buy you, than the value of 80 Baht in Thailand.