Reasonableman Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 no matter how much abhisit was knowingly involved, he'll be cleared. that's my prediction. What does "no matter how much he was knowingly involved" mean? Known by whom? By the courts, by the man himself, by rumor and innuendo, or what? In your justice system he's guilty until proven innocent (or guilty), and then he's still automatically guilty, whatever the outcome. Thank god you don't run the justice system. 'reasonableman' i'm growing very tired of you putting words in my mouth. no matter how much... means he could have been completely oblivious to any forgeries and illegal actions or he could have been up to his eyeballs in it. i think the ultimate official line that we'll end up hearing, is that he did nothing wrong. it was a prediction.... nothing more. Please don't be disingenuous, your cynicism about the egality of the process was evident. If he is declared innocent, will you accept it as true and fair? My inference, which you say was wrong, is that you would not be satisfied with that outcome. So it is a question seeking clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurofiend Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 no matter how much abhisit was knowingly involved, he'll be cleared. that's my prediction. What does "no matter how much he was knowingly involved" mean? Known by whom? By the courts, by the man himself, by rumor and innuendo, or what? In your justice system he's guilty until proven innocent (or guilty), and then he's still automatically guilty, whatever the outcome. Thank god you don't run the justice system. 'reasonableman' i'm growing very tired of you putting words in my mouth. no matter how much... means he could have been completely oblivious to any forgeries and illegal actions or he could have been up to his eyeballs in it. i think the ultimate official line that we'll end up hearing, is that he did nothing wrong. it was a prediction.... nothing more. Please don't be disingenuous, your cynicism about the egality of the process was evident. If he is declared innocent, will you accept it as true and fair? My inference, which you say was wrong, is that you would not be satisfied with that outcome. So it is a question seeking clarification. well you are wrong. if he is proven innocent of any wrong doing i would accept it as fair, yes. MY point was that imo even if he is not proven as being innocent i think he will get off with it. is my lack of faith in how things can go in thailand a shock to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) no matter how much abhisit was knowingly involved, he'll be cleared. that's my prediction. No matter his innocence, he'll be condemned. That's my prediction so does that mean you think the official line will be that he was actively involved in the forgery? I was just writing the opposite of your unfounded prediction, equally unfounded. I do not speculate on what might or might not be. Till now insufficient 'real' data to judge, but obviously [sic] enough rumours to condemn Edited July 21, 2012 by rubl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurofiend Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 no matter how much abhisit was knowingly involved, he'll be cleared. that's my prediction. No matter his innocence, he'll be condemned. That's my prediction so does that mean you think the official line will be that he was actively involved in the forgery? I was just writing the opposite of your unfounded prediction, equally unfounded. I do not speculate on what might or might not be. Till now insufficient 'real' data to judge, but obviously [sic] enough rumours to condemn oh so you were just trolling me. fair enough. we shall reserve our thoughts on anything until everything is already proven shall we? how exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 so does that mean you think the official line will be that he was actively involved in the forgery? I was just writing the opposite of your unfounded prediction, equally unfounded. I do not speculate on what might or might not be. Till now insufficient 'real' data to judge, but obviously [sic] enough rumours to condemn oh so you were just trolling me. fair enough. we shall reserve our thoughts on anything until everything is already proven shall we? how exciting. Well thank you, but I somehow get the impression you seem to think you're worthwhile trolling, whereas I would say you just need correction. IMHO of course and all that. No offence, and without sufficient data I will be kind enough to suspend my judgement. That in itself should already thrill the pants of you. To be honest (as I'm sure you like me to be) there is no need to reserve your thoughts till everything is proven. It's just that some thoughts when expressed seem like slander or simply trying to annoy others rather than helping in a fruitfull discussion. IMHO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurofiend Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 so does that mean you think the official line will be that he was actively involved in the forgery? I was just writing the opposite of your unfounded prediction, equally unfounded. I do not speculate on what might or might not be. Till now insufficient 'real' data to judge, but obviously [sic] enough rumours to condemn oh so you were just trolling me. fair enough. we shall reserve our thoughts on anything until everything is already proven shall we? how exciting. Well thank you, but I somehow get the impression you seem to think you're worthwhile trolling, whereas I would say you just need correction. IMHO of course and all that. No offence, and without sufficient data I will be kind enough to suspend my judgement. That in itself should already thrill the pants of you. To be honest (as I'm sure you like me to be) there is no need to reserve your thoughts till everything is proven. It's just that some thoughts when expressed seem like slander or simply trying to annoy others rather than helping in a fruitfull discussion. IMHO what did i need correction on? an unprovable prediction???? slander on who? rubl, you are clearly just saying all this due to your bias towards abhisit... i never see you chiming in to take issue with all the hate filled venom that's spewed at the reds/ptp/yingluck, even when the thread has nothing to do with them. i didn't even say anything bad about abhisit, just suggested that he's not as perfect as some may think....WOW yet here you are on the defensive... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Well thank you, but I somehow get the impression you seem to think you're worthwhile trolling, whereas I would say you just need correction. IMHO of course and all that. No offence, and without sufficient data I will be kind enough to suspend my judgement. That in itself should already thrill the pants of you. To be honest (as I'm sure you like me to be) there is no need to reserve your thoughts till everything is proven. It's just that some thoughts when expressed seem like slander or simply trying to annoy others rather than helping in a fruitfull discussion. IMHO what did i need correction on? an unprovable prediction???? slander on who? rubl, you are clearly just saying all this due to your bias towards abhisit... i never see you chiming in to take issue with all the hate filled venom that's spewed at the reds/ptp/yingluck, even when the thread has nothing to do with them. i didn't even say anything bad about abhisit, just suggested that he's not as perfect as some may think....WOW yet here you are on the defensive... Too much honour, really. Biased rubl, never taking issue. True, true. Mind you, where does it say I should take issue? What level of 'post' or against whom should fill me with the need to sharpen my quill and look for some vellum to scribble on? I didn't say you said something bad, I just offered the opposite of what you wrote, in an equally hyphothetical question. My 'some thoughts when expressed seem like slander or simply trying to annoy others ...' didn't even name someone in particular. Why do you feel offended? Should I have mentioned you? If so, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurofiend Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Well thank you, but I somehow get the impression you seem to think you're worthwhile trolling, whereas I would say you just need correction. IMHO of course and all that. No offence, and without sufficient data I will be kind enough to suspend my judgement. That in itself should already thrill the pants of you. To be honest (as I'm sure you like me to be) there is no need to reserve your thoughts till everything is proven. It's just that some thoughts when expressed seem like slander or simply trying to annoy others rather than helping in a fruitfull discussion. IMHO what did i need correction on? an unprovable prediction???? slander on who? rubl, you are clearly just saying all this due to your bias towards abhisit... i never see you chiming in to take issue with all the hate filled venom that's spewed at the reds/ptp/yingluck, even when the thread has nothing to do with them. i didn't even say anything bad about abhisit, just suggested that he's not as perfect as some may think....WOW yet here you are on the defensive... Too much honour, really. Biased rubl, never taking issue. True, true. Mind you, where does it say I should take issue? What level of 'post' or against whom should fill me with the need to sharpen my quill and look for some vellum to scribble on? I didn't say you said something bad, I just offered the opposite of what you wrote, in an equally hyphothetical question. My 'some thoughts when expressed seem like slander or simply trying to annoy others ...' didn't even name someone in particular. Why do you feel offended? Should I have mentioned you? If so, why? "My 'some thoughts when expressed seem like slander or simply trying to annoy others ...' didn't even name someone in particular" i'm not sure if you are insulting my intelligence or your own, or both. but please, cut it rubl. you know what you write when you write it, and even if you think you are veiling your real meanings...sorry mate but you're not, not in the slightest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 what did i need correction on? an unprovable prediction???? slander on who? rubl, you are clearly just saying all this due to your bias towards abhisit... i never see you chiming in to take issue with all the hate filled venom that's spewed at the reds/ptp/yingluck, even when the thread has nothing to do with them. i didn't even say anything bad about abhisit, just suggested that he's not as perfect as some may think....WOW yet here you are on the defensive... Too much honour, really. Biased rubl, never taking issue. True, true. Mind you, where does it say I should take issue? What level of 'post' or against whom should fill me with the need to sharpen my quill and look for some vellum to scribble on? I didn't say you said something bad, I just offered the opposite of what you wrote, in an equally hyphothetical question. My 'some thoughts when expressed seem like slander or simply trying to annoy others ...' didn't even name someone in particular. Why do you feel offended? Should I have mentioned you? If so, why? "My 'some thoughts when expressed seem like slander or simply trying to annoy others ...' didn't even name someone in particular" i'm not sure if you are insulting my intelligence or your own, or both. but please, cut it rubl. you know what you write when you write it, and even if you think you are veiling your real meanings...sorry mate but you're not, not in the slightest. Just looked into the mirror and can tell you I'm not trying to insult my intelligence, I'm not even trying to insult yours. Therefor 'cutting it' is impossible, sorry As for me knowing what I write, I can only say yes I think so. I think I'm clear enough and straight enough in what I write. I try to avoid double negatives amongst others. All in all I'm sorry we seem only to be able to agree we disagree. My fault, obviously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurofiend Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 you don't fool anyone rubl... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 you don't fool anyone rubl... Bad nettiquette to reply in this way, my dear fiend. Shame on you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurofiend Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 you don't fool anyone rubl... Bad nettiquette to reply in this way, my dear fiend. Shame on you there were too many quotes.... didn't take you long to see it though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurofiend Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 or do you mean what i said? i'll explain it if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 you don't fool anyone rubl... Bad nettiquette to reply in this way, my dear fiend. Shame on you there were too many quotes.... didn't take you long to see it though You could have removed the oldest quote as many here do, just like me or even you do. Me just stumbling over this "you don't fool anyone rubl." as I'm still reading/replying, doesn't really justify your bad manners, my dear fiend. As for the meaning of your "don't fool anyone" I can only assume you seem to think I'm trying to fool someone, maybe you even want to accuse me without explicitly saying so. Well that's your opinion to which you're entitled. As for me, I'm not trying to fool anyone, I write what I think is right and (modest smile) mostly it seems to be so. Anyway, nice conversation. Now 01:41 bedtime. Tomorrow we'll continue. Take care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fstarbkk Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) lets count the posts until someone tries to compare this matter with something totally irrelevant that thaksin has done to try and justify abhists actions. i am sure it will be on this page. I'm also glad that FINALLY they got something on Abhisit. Yeah, finally... And look how deep they had to dig just to find something that MIGHT be wrong with Abhisit. Let's see if they can even prove their case. Quite different from the misdeeds of their own idol, whose crimes were proven in a court of law and demonstrably cost the country billions! Edited July 21, 2012 by fstarbkk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 ...But Mark falsification of govt doc to get a job, we should close one eye... I can't find anything in the news article about Abhisit having falsified a document. Can you? If I lose a document issued by a government agency I go to the same agency and apply for a duplicate. Is it my fault if the duplicate then contains wrong information, eg a wrong date? On two occasions, six years apart, I needed to get my birth certificate from the municipal office of the Swiss town where my birth was registered. They both show the same birth date, but the first one has my time of birth as one thirty, the other as twelve forty-five. Am I guilty of falsifying a document? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurofiend Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 you don't fool anyone rubl... Bad nettiquette to reply in this way, my dear fiend. Shame on you there were too many quotes.... didn't take you long to see it though You could have removed the oldest quote as many here do, just like me or even you do. Me just stumbling over this "you don't fool anyone rubl." as I'm still reading/replying, doesn't really justify your bad manners, my dear fiend. As for the meaning of your "don't fool anyone" I can only assume you seem to think I'm trying to fool someone, maybe you even want to accuse me without explicitly saying so. Well that's your opinion to which you're entitled. As for me, I'm not trying to fool anyone, I write what I think is right and (modest smile) mostly it seems to be so. Anyway, nice conversation. Now 01:41 bedtime. Tomorrow we'll continue. Take care rubl, you're reading far too deeply into the post. there was no decision making involved pre post by me like... oh i'll be really rude and not quote him... that'll learn him! i just posted a post, no conspiracy behind it. i'll explain what i meant in that post anyway.... it's that you may think you were being subtle by saying: "To be honest (as I'm sure you like me to be) there is no need to reserve your thoughts till everything is proven. It's just that some thoughts when expressed seem like slander or simply trying to annoy others rather than helping in a fruitfull discussion. IMHO" but you weren't, hence why i said you don't fool anyone. and this was the icing on the cake . "My 'some thoughts when expressed seem like slander or simply trying to annoy others ...' didn't even name someone in particular. Why do you feel offended? Should I have mentioned you? If so, why?" proving that you knew exactly what you were implying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommoPhysicist Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 On two occasions, six years apart, I needed to get my birth certificate from the municipal office of the Swiss town where my birth was registered. They both show the same birth date, but the first one has my time of birth as one thirty, the other as twelve forty-five. Am I guilty of falsifying a document? It would depend on what advantage that error gained you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freezacrowd Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 If this is true, then it could damage his credebility, but not too much given the state of Thai polotics. Who cares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaivin2011 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Abhisit and the whole Democrat party should be hanged not only for this dicovery but a lot of other things, the Democrats only serve the yellow shirts and the Thai Chinese Community and are backed by the corrupted elites. But on the other note, even the bloody PTP are just as corupted and also all the Shinawatras , and they too too should be hanged along with the leaders of the red shirts. The Red shirts should discrad their leaders and instead proceed on for a better cause and form a people's government on their own without bringing in any old politicians from the past from any party. This is what Thailand really needs and also the powers and influence of the Thai Chinese needs to be reined in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keesters Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 April 8, 1988 versus July 4, 1986 So what? We see typos all the time!!!! And this doesn't make Abhisit a bad polititian. I'd take him over the crook Thaksin and all his cronies including his air-head sister any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasonableman Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Abhisit and the whole Democrat party should be hanged not only for this dicovery but a lot of other things, the Democrats only serve the yellow shirts and the Thai Chinese Community and are backed by the corrupted elites. But on the other note, even the bloody PTP are just as corupted and also all the Shinawatras , and they too too should be hanged along with the leaders of the red shirts. The Red shirts should discrad their leaders and instead proceed on for a better cause and form a people's government on their own without bringing in any old politicians from the past from any party. This is what Thailand really needs and also the powers and influence of the Thai Chinese needs to be reined in. Righto. And every child should have a free flying-pig balloon. Will you officiate at the hangings? What else can we fix using this novel methodology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 well you are wrong. if he is proven innocent of any wrong doing i would accept it as fair, yes. MY point was that imo even if he is not proven as being innocent i think he will get off with it. is my lack of faith in how things can go in thailand a shock to you? What if he is found "not guilty", which isn't the same as "proven innocent"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Abhisit and the whole Democrat party should be hanged Not the first time we've heard this recommendation. The last time was the grave offense of viewing a girlie pic on a phone. Pheu Thai MP Prasit Chaisrisa said MP Nutt should hang himself to escape the shame he has brought on Parliament That a Police Sargent-Major would make such a bizarre statement would indicate he's never attended a successful suicidal hanging in the course of his police work. That a Red Shirt Leader would make such a bizarre statement is unsurprising. Prasit is both. The reasonable thinking Police Sargent-Major Member of Parliament with the Pheu Thai Party's public Facebook page in his custom-designed high level Red Shirt uniform He certainly adds extreme legitimacy for any issue by any group. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherstuff1957 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Abhisit and the whole Democrat party should be hanged not only for this dicovery but a lot of other things, the Democrats only serve the yellow shirts and the Thai Chinese Community and are backed by the corrupted elites. But on the other note, even the bloody PTP are just as corupted and also all the Shinawatras , and they too too should be hanged along with the leaders of the red shirts. The Red shirts should discrad their leaders and instead proceed on for a better cause and form a people's government on their own without bringing in any old politicians from the past from any party. This is what Thailand really needs and also the powers and influence of the Thai Chinese needs to be reined in. Thinking the Redshirts = poor, upcountry. "real" Thais and Yellowshirts = rich, Bangkok Thai-Chinese sounds logical, but some of the most ardent Pro-Thaksin people I know are well-off Thai-Chinese from Bangkok! They don't go to the Red rallies, but they always vote for Thaksin's proxy parties. They admire Thaksin's business success and are opposed to the old Thai aristocracy. If you think that Thaksin will reign in the Thai-Chinese I suspect that you will be sadly disappointed if he ever returns to power. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aechzen Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 shure no one would lie !!! in an application for a nice job !! and a good salary !! chai mai ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunla Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) But on the other note, even the bloody PTP are just as corupted and also all the Shinawatras , and they too too should be hanged along with the leaders of the red shirts. The Red shirts should discrad their leaders and instead proceed on for a better cause and form a people's government on their own without bringing in any old politicians from the past from any party. This is what Thailand really needs and also the powers and influence of the Thai Chinese needs to be reined in. Thai Chinese are 12% of Thailand's population. I think its a bit late to be reined in. I do agree with you on executing the redshirt leadership and PTP though. I would prefer the 'human torches' method that ancient Rome used on its prisoners. That way PTP can finally contribute to improving Thai infrastructure, by lighting up the roads at night, at least for the first night or two. Edited July 22, 2012 by Yunla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaicbr Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 That bloke on the right is looking and thinking. "Oh my Bhuddha what a <deleted>. And he's helping to run the country " sent from my Wellcom A90+ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiHadOrange Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 On two occasions, six years apart, I needed to get my birth certificate from the municipal office of the Swiss town where my birth was registered. They both show the same birth date, but the first one has my time of birth as one thirty, the other as twelve forty-five. Am I guilty of falsifying a document? It would depend on what advantage that error gained you. Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 On two occasions, six years apart, I needed to get my birth certificate from the municipal office of the Swiss town where my birth was registered. They both show the same birth date, but the first one has my time of birth as one thirty, the other as twelve forty-five. Am I guilty of falsifying a document? It would depend on what advantage that error gained you. You should consult ThommoLawyer. If the document was presented unaltered, it could be seen as a false representation, but not falsifying a document unless you could prove conspiracy to produce same. Even false representation would depend on proof that he knew the document to contained false data. Without conflicting documents, how would Maestro know that his time of birth as shown was inaccurate? I've heard of many people claiming to be born again, this is the first with documentary proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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