Whey Protein - Beware Of Fithwey.Com!

[tropo]

It's always good to indicate if something you post is a quote from a website. It came across as a marketing blurb, that's why I Googled to find the origin of the statement.

There's probably a good chance it's better but that's not our concern. Our concern is whether the regular WPC that most of us are consuming is harmful to our health.

I think there is a lot of marketing "fluff" on that sales website, just as there is on most sales sites.

BTW, I thought Dr Mercola's "Miracle Whey was the gold standard.

http://professionalw...in-concentrate/

The Aus Whey Concentrate looks like the best one on the market in Oz. They arent using raw milk but they are using non denatured cheese and the price is reasonable. Lots of positive comments too.

I can tell you one thing for sure....unless you had an allergy or some severe reaction, there is no way to tell which one is better. It's merely a source of protein...therefore comments from people about how good this or that brand is mean nothing to me. I use 4kg per month of my brand and feel good, but I wouldn't use that as a selling point... even though I'm one of the heaviest users out there.

The only reason why I'm recommending Agri-mark WPC here is because it's a good price and readily available with a good delivery service here in Thailand.

It's like reviews on vitamins - they mean nothing.

We have to go by the science.

Very few brands of whey protein will divulge their source of the raw material (WPC etc) and even fewer the manufacturing process thereof ... but all brands are expounding the benefits of their particular product. Most of them are probably using identical raw materials from the same sources.

Regarding raw milk - I would be surprised if the major whey manufacturers are not using raw milk straight from the dairy farm. Why would they have it pasteurized and homogenized first if they're going to break it down immediately into it's component parts. That wouldn't make economic sense.

They are not using cheese to make whey. The milk is separated into curds and whey - the cheese is made from the curd fraction. Separation of milk into curds and whey does not require heat. The heat will be applied to produce the protein powder. If the proteins in the WPC I'm consuming were denatured, you'd think after using it for so many years and in such large quantities I'd be dead by now. I have clear breathing and no signs of allergies...and I drink quite a bit of milk along with the WPC.

Regarding the best whey in Australia - I would go for Musashi over any other brands.

[jbrain]

It's always good to indicate if something you post is a quote from a website. It came across as a marketing blurb, that's why I Googled to find the origin of the statement.

There's probably a good chance it's better but that's not our concern. Our concern is whether the regular WPC that most of us are consuming is harmful to our health.

I think there is a lot of marketing "fluff" on that sales website, just as there is on most sales sites.

BTW, I thought Dr Mercola's "Miracle Whey was the gold standard.

http://professionalw...in-concentrate/

The Aus Whey Concentrate looks like the best one on the market in Oz. They arent using raw milk but they are using non denatured cheese and the price is reasonable. Lots of positive comments too.

I can tell you one thing for sure....unless you had an allergy or some severe reaction, there is no way to tell which one is better. It's merely a source of protein...therefore comments from people about how good this or that brand is mean nothing to me. I use 4kg per month of my brand and feel good, but I wouldn't use that as a selling point... even though I'm one of the heaviest users out there.

The only reason why I'm recommending Agri-mark WPC here is because it's a good price and readily available with a good delivery service here in Thailand.

It's like reviews on vitamins - they mean nothing.

We have to go by the science.

Very few brands of whey protein will divulge their source of the raw material (WPC etc) and even fewer the manufacturing process thereof ... but all brands are expounding the benefits of their particular product. Most of them are probably using identical raw materials from the same sources.

Regarding raw milk - I would be surprised if the major whey manufacturers are not using raw milk straight from the dairy farm. Why would they have it pasteurized and homogenized first if they're going to break it down immediately into it's component parts. That wouldn't make economic sense.

They are not using cheese to make whey. The milk is separated into curds and whey - the cheese is made from the curd fraction. Separation of milk into curds and whey does not require heat. The heat will be applied to produce the protein powder. If the proteins in the WPC I'm consuming were denatured, you'd think after using it for so many years and in such large quantities I'd be dead by now. I have clear breathing and no signs of allergies...and I drink quite a bit of milk along with the WPC.

Regarding the best whey in Australia - I would go for Musashi over any other brands.

To say it in short, and this doesn't aplly only to protein but to anything you cn think about.

Anyone who spends time and money to create a webpage/blog to praise or criticise any product or service or whatever, has an agenda.

[tropo]

Anyone who spends time and money to create a webpage/blog to praise or criticise any product or service or whatever, has an agenda.

Especially when they're spending most of their time critisizing the value of competitive products. Dr Mercola does this to sell his "Miracle Whey".

I'd really like to see some scientific comparisons done by independent researchers before I'm willing to pay 4 times as much for a product. This probably will never happen though, so we're always going to be guessing.

Edited December 23, 2012 by tropo

[Tolley]

It's always good to indicate if something you post is a quote from a website. It came across as a marketing blurb, that's why I Googled to find the origin of the statement.

There's probably a good chance it's better but that's not our concern. Our concern is whether the regular WPC that most of us are consuming is harmful to our health.

I think there is a lot of marketing "fluff" on that sales website, just as there is on most sales sites.

BTW, I thought Dr Mercola's "Miracle Whey was the gold standard.

http://professionalw...in-concentrate/

The Aus Whey Concentrate looks like the best one on the market in Oz. They arent using raw milk but they are using non denatured cheese and the price is reasonable. Lots of positive comments too.

I can tell you one thing for sure....unless you had an allergy or some severe reaction, there is no way to tell which one is better. It's merely a source of protein...therefore comments from people about how good this or that brand is mean nothing to me. I use 4kg per month of my brand and feel good, but I wouldn't use that as a selling point... even though I'm one of the heaviest users out there.

The only reason why I'm recommending Agri-mark WPC here is because it's a good price and readily available with a good delivery service here in Thailand.

It's like reviews on vitamins - they mean nothing.

We have to go by the science.

Very few brands of whey protein will divulge their source of the raw material (WPC etc) and even fewer the manufacturing process thereof ... but all brands are expounding the benefits of their particular product. Most of them are probably using identical raw materials from the same sources.

Regarding raw milk - I would be surprised if the major whey manufacturers are not using raw milk straight from the dairy farm. Why would they have it pasteurized and homogenized first if they're going to break it down immediately into it's component parts. That wouldn't make economic sense.

They are not using cheese to make whey. The milk is separated into curds and whey - the cheese is made from the curd fraction. Separation of milk into curds and whey does not require heat. The heat will be applied to produce the protein powder. If the proteins in the WPC I'm consuming were denatured, you'd think after using it for so many years and in such large quantities I'd be dead by now. I have clear breathing and no signs of allergies...and I drink quite a bit of milk along with the WPC.

Regarding the best whey in Australia - I would go for Musashi over any other brands.

Up to you what you want to believe.

But the majority of protein concentrates are denatured. The information on that is freely available and they are made from cheese that info is also freely available.

You have no allergies and you are happy with what you have got good for you but dont start distorting the available information to suit what you think.

[tropo]

Up to you what you want to believe.

But the majority of protein concentrates are denatured. The information on that is freely available and they are made from cheese that info is also freely available.

You have no allergies and you are happy with what you have got good for you but dont start distorting the available information to suit what you think.

I'm not distorting anything. I'd say you're the one doing that - by quoting from a sales website without indicating that fact and then using it as though it was your own info.

Once again, whey is not made from cheese. Cheese is made from the curds of the milk - the whey is separated from the curds before they make the cheese and that is done with the enzyme (acid) rennet.

If most whey proteins are denatured, then pretty much all our cooked protein is also denatured because cooking temperatures are much higher than what they use to make whey.

I don't believe the WPC I'm using is denatured and I will continue to believe that until I see clear evidence that it is not. I need more than beliefs from marketing people on promotional websites. I have studied about WPC for years but not seen evidence that what I'm consuming is useless at best and harmful at worst.

Half or more of my daily protein intake comes from WPC, so if that is worthless then I would be suffering from borderline protein deficiency. I think I'm pretty good evidence that the WPC available here is good and the scare stories are just that - designed to scare people into buying expensive products.

Edited December 23, 2012 by tropo

[jbrain]

Heating denatures protein but that doesn't mean it destroy's it.

You will lose some of the strenght and benefits of the protein but the amino acids stay intact.

[tropo]

Heating denatures protein but that doesn't mean it destroy's it.

You will lose some of the strenght and benefits of the protein but the amino acids stay intact.

It's the 8 essential amino acids we require from whole protein. If the amino acids remain intact then there's nothing to worry about. Perhaps heat cleaves the peptide bonds and produces an amino acid "soup" which is easier to digest..

[Tolley]

Up to you what you want to believe.

But the majority of protein concentrates are denatured. The information on that is freely available and they are made from cheese that info is also freely available.

You have no allergies and you are happy with what you have got good for you but dont start distorting the available information to suit what you think.

I'm not distorting anything. I'd say you're the one doing that - by quoting from a sales website without indicating that fact and then using it as though it was your own info.

Once again, whey is not made from cheese. Cheese is made from the curds of the milk - the whey is separated from the curds before they make the cheese and that is done with the enzyme (acid) rennet.

If most whey proteins are denatured, then pretty much all our cooked protein is also denatured because cooking temperatures are much higher than what they use to make whey.

I don't believe the WPC I'm using is denatured and I will continue to believe that until I see clear evidence that it is not. I need more than beliefs from marketing people on promotional websites. I have studied about WPC for years but not seen evidence that what I'm consuming is useless at best and harmful at worst.

Half or more of my daily protein intake comes from WPC, so if that is worthless then I would be suffering from borderline protein deficiency. I think I'm pretty good evidence that the WPC available here is good and the scare stories are just that - designed to scare people into buying expensive products.

All websites that promote a product need to be viewed with some scepticism. Nonetheless the two most important things are the quality of the milk and the way concentrate is produced. It is a no brainer if you are using organic milk and not using a high heating process that denatures the concentrate you will get a better product.

Now the question is whether it is worth the extra money? And there is only one way to find that out and that is by trying and comparing.

BTW The website never stated that all people with suffer from allergies although it may have gone over the top with the bit about other products being harmful or of no benefit.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Tolley

[tropo]

The two most important things are the quality of the milk and the way concentrate is produced. It is a no brainer if you are using organic milk and not using a high heating process that denatures the concentrate you will get a better product.

Now the question is whether it is worth the extra money?

Sorry, I don't believe whey will be any better whether you're using standard milk or organically produced milk. WPC is pure protein derived from the milk, filtered out from the whole milk.

That's a bit like refining gold from ore - you're left with the gold and the impurities are left behind.

This is just more marketing fluff designed to sell products at 4 x the usual price.

You keep going on about denatured protein caused by heating. You have no idea what level of heat the various manufacturing processes use or how much heat damages the protein, so this is all guess work. More marketing fluff based on "belief".

How could we possibly decide if it is worth extra money without any scientific analysis to go on but only promotional material presented by the manufacturers.

Edited December 23, 2012 by tropo

[tropo]

BTW The website never stated that all people with suffer from allergies although it may have gone over the top with the bit about other products being harmful or of no benefit.

Nonetheless, allergy and intolerance to milk products is quite common. Being from Dutch stock it would be fair to say that milk products were consumed by my ancestors for many centuries. Asians often have trouble with milk. I don't believe the allergy is related to denatured protein, but you've peaked my interest on this subject and I want to do more research.

I do drink kefir every day though - produced from standard zero fat milk here in Thailand. I'm pretty sure that my digestive system is working a lot better since I started consuming it.

[tropo]

After doing a bit of research on denaturing of proteins in whey, it would seem that this sums up the general consensus that it doesn't affect the nutritional value of whey.

http://www.livestron...t-whey-protein/

The Heat Effect

Chains of amino acid molecules make up proteins, with each type of protein having its own unique sequence of amino acid. When proteins are "unfolded" from their natural chain or shape, they are "denatured," according to the Cornell University site. While very high temperatures may cause denaturation of whey protein, according to Cornell University, heat treatments generally will not affect the composition of amino acids or their nutritional content. Severe heat treatments may slightly affect nutrition and amino acids that are particularly sensitive to heat.

Functionality

Heat may not affect the amino acid structure of the protein or its nutrients, but it might affect the functionality of the protein. Functionality refers to the behavior of the protein, particularly its solubility. Solubility refers to the ability of a protein to dissolve in a particular solvent. Heat treatments may affect this important feature of whey proteins, making them less soluble. However, according to Ohio State University professor Mike Mangino, total solubility is not required for the protein to remain functional.

More on denaturing of proteins:

http://www.elmhurst....naturation.html

Another discussion:

http://www.proteinpo...denaturing.html

DENATURING

As I wrote in the Protein Pow Newsletter One, one of the most pervasive myths surrounding protein powders is that COOKING protein powder IRREVOCABLY DAMAGES it because it DENATURES it. It’s incredible, the sheer power of the idea that, by denaturing protein powder (i.e. by baking or cooking it in any form), the protein becomes 'damaged' and useless. I'm sure you've run into this idea before. I know I have, more times than I can remember!The answer to the question of "does heating or cooking protein powder 'damage' it?" is: NO. The protein doesn't get 'damaged'; our bodies absorbs the exact same amino acids from the protein whether we cook it or not. Though baking alters the structure of the protein (yes, it does 'denature' it), its nutritional value remains unchanged. Think about this: proteins are basically chains of amino acids that, when heated, can change their conformation (i.e. their structure). When you eat the protein, its molecules are broken down into individual aminos and are then brought together in your cells becoming a source of dietary protein. Cooked or uncooked, your body absorbs the protein anyway. (Do we see the protein in eggs as somehow 'damaged' by cooking? We don't - even though, in reality, heating the egg's protein 'denatures' it too, i.e. it changes the naturally occurring amino acid configuration of the egg). The great folk at Tera's Whey asked the University of Wisconsin’s Center for Dairy Research about baking with protein powder, to put the matter - once and for all - to rest as this was a question that they too were getting fairly often. Here's what they had to say "... whey may also be used in baked products to add additional nutritional benefits....In general, protein solubility is affected by heat and most foods are heat-processed, whether it involves baking bread, cooking caramel, or retorting soup for preservation purposes.... During baking, some of the proteins may become denatured but as this is a structural change, the nutritional content of the whey remains and thus provides essential amino acids which are part of a healthy diet. " (UW Center for Dairy Research, from Tera's Whey Focus Group, 2012).

Edited December 23, 2012 by tropo

[robblok]

The good thing about the livestrong site is that its not affiliated with anyone. To be honest its hard to find sites with good information on anything.

I have been reading about all those food / diet schemes (paleo / atkins / blood group/ leptin diet) they all have some common things and i take those things as proven but on other points they all say something different and often attack each other. So what i do is just use the information that they agree upon and think more about what is logical for the rest.

Everyone has a agenda, there is almost no real independent research (research is expensive), and results can be manipulated to promote stuff.

Its a jungle out there information wise, great that there is so much available but it makes it hard too. But rather too much as too little information.

[Tolley]

The whole debate comes back to the pasteurisation of milk and whether you consider it a good thing or not.

Please read the link below and please note the scientific sources quoted in this link. They are numerous.

http://www.drdingle.com/blog/tag/cows-milk

[Tolley]

BTW The website never stated that all people with suffer from allergies although it may have gone over the top with the bit about other products being harmful or of no benefit.

Nonetheless, allergy and intolerance to milk products is quite common. Being from Dutch stock it would be fair to say that milk products were consumed by my ancestors for many centuries. Asians often have trouble with milk. I don't believe the allergy is related to denatured protein, but you've peaked my interest on this subject and I want to do more research.

I do drink kefir every day though - produced from standard zero fat milk here in Thailand. I'm pretty sure that my digestive system is working a lot better since I started consuming it.

Yes and the milk your ancestors were getting were a real super food. Raw unpasteurised milk is not what we are getting today.

[robblok]

All those our ancestors stuff is nice but we are better stronger and healthier as them, so quantity goes over quality. I do believe we can improve but so far a steady supply is more important as higher quality.

[tropo]

Yes and the milk your ancestors were getting were a real super food. Raw unpasteurised milk is not what we are getting today.

No, but I mentioned that as a reason why I thrive on milk products of all types.

Edited December 24, 2012 by tropo

[tropo]

Yes and the milk your ancestors were getting were a real super food. Raw unpasteurised milk is not what we are getting today.

The amino acid profile of milk will be the same now as it was centuries ago. Modern milk may be "polluted" with chemicals and impurities which did not exist in the times of old, but the protein content remains the same.

Here were mainly concerned with the quality of one WPC product over another. I don't believe the source of the milk will affect the final product (WPC, WPI) as much as these purveyors of expensive whey formulas will have us believe.

[tropo]

The whole debate comes back to the pasteurisation of milk and whether you consider it a good thing or not.

Please read the link below and please note the scientific sources quoted in this link. They are numerous.

http://www.drdingle....g/tag/cows-milk

I think this debate is primarily about whether the heat used to manufacture WPC and WPI damages or reduces the nutritional content of the final product.

To ascertain that we need to determine the heat stability of amino acids. It has already been determined that protein molecules will become denatured when heated. The helix structure (secondary and tertiary structure) will change but the peptide bonds (primary structure) remain intact and consequently the amino acids will remain undamaged.

Denaturing of proteins is a normal process of cooking. Note how egg whites turn white at fairly low heat. Chicken breasts are another good example, turning from an opaque pinkish colour to white.

As soon as any protein hits the stomach it will be denatured immediately anyway. The digestive enzymes rip the protein structure apart. Proteases and peptidases split proteins into small peptides and amino acids.

We don't know what temperatures are used to make WPC powder from liquid whey. I'll have to take an educated guess here and suggest that 100°C, the boiling point of water, would be the maximum heat applied (but I'm only guessing). (If anyone knows, please help me out here).

OK, so how do amino acids hold up at 100°C.

In this study....

http://ir.cftri.com/7267/

It is shown that the lysine and threonine loss from cooking rice (boiling) for 14 minutes is negligible.

Here's a general discussion about the affect of cooking on amino acids:

http://familyfood.hi...oking-2719.html

The study mentioned in the article regarding the amino content of cooked sweet potatoes can be found here:

http://ncsu.edu/food.../S31-60/S58.pdf

Edited December 24, 2012 by tropo

[Tolley]

Pasteurisation of milk is part of the same debate because most whey is made from pasteurised milk so the link I posted previously is very important:

Here is another one but they are also flogging their product so not as good as the link I posted before but still it spells things out pretty clearly.

Taken from the following website:http://www.lifesource4life.com/protein.html

Why do you mean by, “heat kills protein”?

Most whey protein comes from milk that has been pasteurized, but what does pasteurization mean and why is it important? Pasteurization (heating the milk at very high temperatures) by definition means the complete destruction of all the enzymes in the milk. Milk is declared pasteurized when you don't find any enzymes left. But pasteurization not only kills the enzymes which are important complex proteins it also:

• Alters the amino acids in the milk and destroys many, if not all of the important proteins
  
• Destroys the unsaturated fatty acids
  
• Kills most if not all of the vitamins
  
• Greatly reduces the availability of the minerals
  

So after pasteurization the milk is for all intense purposes not only essentially dead but puts a strain on your body because your pancreas needs to produce lots of digestive enzymes to digest and absorb the dead milk! Understanding how pasteurization affects the quality of the milk is incredibly important because the quality of the Whey protein powder, bars and drinks can only be as good as the milk its coming from. Dead processed milk can only produce dead processed whey protein and that's not what you want to feed your body if you want to be healthy and excel on the sports field. So the second step in choosing a quality Whey protein product is to make sure the milk used to produce the whey protein has not been pasteurized at high temperatures! You wonder why so many Whey Protein's on the market are cheap, it is simply because they are processed cheaply and simply don't work!

LifeSource Whey Protein has been designed by and for our Professional, Olympic, Body Builders and Intense athletes around the world and tested on them as well to ensure Bio-Availability, up-loading to the bloodstream, efficient absorption to their muscle fibers and overall results!

As we age we lose muscle, but also as we age we tend to eat less protein. So when you find yourself getting above 60 and see that your meat, protein intake is lessening this is a great time to add Whey Protein to your diet. You will be amazed when your body has enough protein just what it can do well into your elderly years. Don't make the mistake of not feeding your body protein as you age! You can also try our Meal Replacements, they are the exact same protein but with added vitamins & minerals to ensure you are fueling your body's needs completely!

This website is also selling a product but it does quote a lot of scientific research.

http://www.musclemass.com/masspro.html

[jrtmedic]

Dead Milk!

Dead Whey protein

What does this stuff look like when its alive?

[tropo]

Pasteurisation of milk is part of the same debate because most whey is made from pasteurised milk so the link I posted previously is very important:

I've really had enough of all this marketing blurb. It seems like you totally skipped the scientific research I presented that proves that even boiling 2 essential amino acids for 14 mintues does not destroy them... and then you present more of the same from protein manufacturers.

Pasteurization is not part of the debate at all. For starters I'm still looking for proof that whey is made from pasteurized milk. That would be a waste of money. The manufacturers of cheese and whey get the milk raw straight from the dairy farms.

But even if they do use pasteurized milk, that's also irrelevant. We are not requiring anything more from the milk than the raw WPC. There are no vitamins, minerals or enzymes required in this product. Most of us only use WPC as a source of protein. We get our minerals, enzymes and vitamins from other sources. As long as the amino acids are intact the product will be well assimilated and useful nutrition.

From your website: "Pasteurization (heating the milk at very high temperatures) by definition means the complete destruction of all the enzymes in the milk"

This is nonsense. Pasteurization is not done at "very high temperatures" - it's done at around 70°C. In Canada milk is required to be heated to 72°C for 16 seconds. Remember I showed that 2 essential amino acids can remain unharmed after boiling for 14 minutes and they're suggesting that the milk is totally destroyed at 72°C for only 16 seconds.

After reading that I lost interest in reading any further because they're using straight out lies to promote their product.

Edited December 24, 2012 by tropo

[jrtmedic]

Tropo

Please don't try to stop them the more ludicrous it becomes the better the laugh!

[tropo]

Dead Milk!

Dead Whey protein

What does this stuff look like when its alive?

Add a few kefir grains to any milk and before long it will be teeming with billions of live bacteria. It still looks the same though - white liquid.

On a serious note, some of these whey manufacturers would have us believe that their powder is alive whereas others are dead. Enzymes are proteins and they're all dead and denatured by the time it is dried into powder.

[Tolley]

Pasteurisation of milk is part of the same debate because most whey is made from pasteurised milk so the link I posted previously is very important:

I've really had enough of all this marketing blurb. It seems like you totally skipped the scientific research I presented that proves that even boiling 2 essential amino acids for 14 mintues does not destroy them... and then you present more of the same from protein manufacturers.

Pasteurization is not part of the debate at all. For starters I'm still looking for proof that whey is made from pasteurized milk. That would be a waste of money. The manufacturers of cheese and whey get the milk raw straight from the dairy farms.

But even if they do use pasteurized milk, that's also irrelevant. We are not requiring anything more from the milk than the raw WPC. There are no vitamins, minerals or enzymes required in this product. Most of us only use WPC as a source of protein. We get our minerals, enzymes and vitamins from other sources. As long as the amino acids are intact the product will be well assimilated and useful nutrition.

From your website: "Pasteurization (heating the milk at very high temperatures) by definition means the complete destruction of all the enzymes in the milk"

This is nonsense. Pasteurization is not done at "very high temperatures" - it's done at around 70°C. In Canada milk is required to be heated to 72°C for 16 seconds. Remember I showed that 2 essential amino acids can remain unharmed after boiling for 14 minutes and they're suggesting that the milk is totally destroyed at 72°C for only 16 seconds.

After reading that I lost interest in reading any further because they're using straight out lies to promote their product.

It seems like you skipped the link I posted about dairy products with lots of scientific backed research behind by independent people not selling anything!

[tropo]

It seems like you skipped the link I posted about dairy products with lots of scientific backed research behind by independent people not selling anything!

We're just going around in circles here. I've read quite a few of your links. Perhaps not all of them, but I've covered protein denaturing in detail and explained why it is irrelevant to the manufacture of WPC.

You also included some forum links. I'm not going to read through long threads of uneducated people giving their personal opinion on Whey products.

If you have specific scientific research to explain why most whey protein is worthless, link the studies. Most of what you've given is advertising fluff. They're the people stating all these opinions on how other products are no good.

[Tolley]

It seems like you skipped the link I posted about dairy products with lots of scientific backed research behind by independent people not selling anything!

We're just going around in circles here. I've read quite a few of your links. Perhaps not all of them, but I've covered protein denaturing in detail and explained why it is irrelevant to the manufacture of WPC.

You also included some forum links. I'm not going to read through long threads of uneducated people giving their personal opinion on Whey products.

If you have specific scientific research to explain why most whey protein is worthless, link the studies. Most of what you've given is advertising fluff. They're the people stating all these opinions on how other products are no good.

Your links deal with cooking rice and sweet potatoes not milk so I dont think they are relevant to this discussion.

I will have to leave it for now as going out for xmas dinner.

Have a good Xmas

[robblok]

As far as i have read a fair number of Whey's are made from unpasteurized milk. In the Netherlands many cheeses are made from raw milk but the majority is made from pasteurized milk. I am not sure about WPC, also i don't worry too much about it as i have no problems at all with it.

Most Caucasian people can handle any kind of milk well, id worry more if i were Asian or black. But everyone should decide if its worth the extra money. For me paying 4 times the going rate for it is not worth it. As i said before our ancestors might have had stuff with higher food value, but we get more of it and are stronger, so quantity goes over quality in this case.

[tropo]

Your links deal with cooking rice and sweet potatoes not milk so I dont think they are relevant to this discussion.

I will have to leave it for now as going out for xmas dinner.

Have a good Xmas

Lysine and threonine are 2 of the essential amino acids we need to consume in our diet. They are in whey and all other animal proteins.

If we can show that these 2 amino acids can be boiled (100°C) for at least 14 minutes without any harm, that shoots down the idea that pasteurization at 72°C (for 16 seconds) will kill all nutritional benefits (amino acids) in milk. Even if they go to higher temperatures to produce whey powder, there's no evidence that the amino acid content is harmed or diminished. Talking about vitamins, enzymes and mineral in milk is totally irrelevant to the content of whey powder, because we consume whey for the protein content.

I don't see any information available about the temperatures that are used to produce whey powder. No one is giving a figure. The last site you linked talked about "very high temperatures" used to pasteurize milk, which is pure bunk. If they can lie about this, who's to say they're using low temperatures to produce their overpriced products. You only have their word to go on and if they're lying in their promotional material they simply cannot be trusted... but even so, temperatures at least to boiling point are not causing any harm to the amino acids,.

The idea that proteins are being denatured and that this causes them to become worthless (and even harmful) is also pure bunk used to promote these overpriced products. It is just not true.

If you believe that, you may as well throw away your stove and eat raw meat.

I've just eaten some turkey - hopefully I won't suffer from the denatured protein and/or develop an allergy. The internal temperature of the breast was 77°C, just a tad over the "very high temperatures" they use to pasteurize milk.

Merry Christmas!

Edited December 24, 2012 by tropo

[tropo]

As I've just eaten my Christmas dinner, I have some time on my hands.

Here's the process for making WPC straight from a NZ government website:

http://nzic.org.nz/C...es/dairy/3G.pdf

Whey Protein Concentrate (WPC) is produced using ultrafiltration. This is also a membrane

separation, but it selects on the basis of molecular size and is driven by pressure rather than

by applied electric field as in the case of electrodialysis. Ultrafiltration retains (in the liquid

product termed ìretentateî) any insoluble material or solutes larger than about 20 000 Da

molecular weight. The rest of the whey stream passes through the membrane, driven by the

applied pressure and is called ìpermeateî. The permeate contains most of the lactose,

minerals and water from the whey. The retentate, the volume of which is about 1-4% that of

the feed whey, is spray dried to a powder containing 35-85% protein as desired. WPCs are

made at low to moderate temperatures so that the proteins remain in their native form and the

dried product is highly soluble. New Zealand is now the largest manufacturer of WPC in the

world, employing many tens of square kilometres of ultrafiltration membrane. WPCs are

used as food product ingredients in hams, custards, confectionery, crab-sticks, cakes, infant

formulae, sports drinks and formulated stock foods.

Most WPCs contain 5-7% milkfat in the dry powdered product. This fat originated in the

milk and is not removed by the cream separators through which the whey passes before

ultrafiltration. The most modern WPCs use either microfiltration (like ultrafiltration but

using membranes with pores sized at about 200 000 Da molecular weight) or ion exchange of

the proteins themselves, prior to ultrafiltration, to make a protein product almost devoid of all

fat. These very high value proteins find favour in clear acid sports beverages such as those

for body-builders.

We have no reason to believe that the process in the USA is any different.

There's no doubt about it. Most branded whey powders have all sorts of claims pasted on their containers, all suggesting that their formula is the best.

I'm not interested in these silly claims. Go with the raw material and save money.

Edited December 24, 2012 by tropo

[tropo]

Here's the most comprehensive information I can find on the production and uses of whey protein. It's very long, very involved and very boring to read.

http://www.euromilk....ook on Whey.pdf

It goes into full details as to how much temperature is used to dry the whey. The particle temperature is kept within the 65 to 75°C range.

And yes, this process uses pasteurization where the milk is kept at 72°C for 15 seconds.

There is also details about protein denaturation and the anatomic form of whey protein molecules, but nothing indicating a problem with regard to digestion and assimilation.

... and another very detailed article on the heat stability of whey protein.

http://www.innovatew...eport_FINAL.pdf

In there you'll read that the denaturation point of whey is 78°C. I doesn't interfere with the nutritional value of the protein, but cause precipitation.

The above articles are very involved and heavy reading, and a lot less exciting than marketing blurbs, but to get the real picture this is what we should be reading.

Edited December 24, 2012 by tropo