Backpackers Are Great Asset For Chiang Mai

[uptheos]

He talks a good game dolly....my guess is English teacher.

that would make you feel better, wouldnt it? then you could look down from your ivory tower of mediocrity and scoff at my protestations, right?

but, nah. i dont teach. dont make some measly 30k/month.

^look, my grammar's all messed

What a give away. Cheers

.

Cuz i know the salaries? 55 ya, thats failproof logic, there. Say, the browns just signed tannenhill for 4 years at 8m...I must be an nfl qb, too 55

If it makes you feel better, think im a lowly teacher slaving away for peanuts. Makes no difference to me.

You might work on staying on topic, tho.

My post, I'll take it wherever I want. Sorry if I hit a nerve.

Edited July 25, 2012 by uptheos

[samsara]

A nerve? Buddy, I'm laughing as I read your posts.

Have you been to pai or vang vieng recently? What did u think of the marvelous culture there?

Btw, good edit. Thought the "thank you" came off as a little weak as well.

Edited July 25, 2012 by samsara

[uptheos]

A nerve? Buddy, I'm laughing as I read your posts.

Have you been to pai or vang vieng recently? What did u think of the marvelous culture there?

Btw, good edit. Thought the "thank you" came off as a little weak as well.

[Ricardo]

Backpackers are good for Chiang Mai, if only because in later-life they return, with spouses & families, and go up-market.

Some of us even end up living here !

Wouldn't it be sad, if the less-well-off were denied the possibility to travel cheaply/simply, and see the world & meet new people ?

I'd equally argue that poorer Thais benefit, from travelling overseas and often working their way, good for them !

Of course this changes the world, but I believe for-the-better, workers of the world just pick up a rucksack and go see it for yourselves !

And it creates jobs for the locals too.

[market trader]

IMO, most backpackers are fine and many have a lot going for them, but a small number are out to get something for nothing and will cheat and steal while traveling to do it. Unfortunately, the bad apples are the ones that stick out in many people's minds and the rest get a bad reputation.

Many farang's (more than backpackers) lie, cheat and steal in Chiang Mai.

So what you are saying is that Chiang Mai is no different from the rest of the world

[WinnieTheKhwai]

no idea how uptheos has NEVER been annoyed by them. theyre just a bunch of clueless sheep led by guidebooks and travel sites looking for the next beer. no value in that whatsoever.

..unlike sex tourists and retired expats you mean?

[hellodolly]

Yes you do.

I live here on a better than average guaranteed income (retirement) and can not afford all the traveling you do. And it is obvious that you do not do it on the cheap side.

If my parents lived hand to mouth and I had that kind of money I would help them out. As is I have forgone two trips to Bali and one back to North America to help out people close to me.

Probably scrape up enough money to go to Krabi in December. I hope you are not going to say pack packers have ruined it. By reading Lonely Planet.

Your young you have lots of time to learn. One of the things I have learned is not all trust funds come from Mommy and Daddy.

very true. in fact, i do help them out monthly and they have a house all paid for back in the US courtesy of me as well.

not saying lonely planet ruins a place. but places like vang vieng, pai, etc. cater to a certain kind of person, namely the budget backpacker, who likes some adventure and some intoxicants, and thats about it. while those places might be fun if you can go back to that level of immaturity, for the rest of us they're ruined and not even worth visiting anymore. and thats just sad, imo.

its not just backpackers. the hiso set ruins other places. the sex tourist ruins places. basically, tourists ruin places

as for trust funds, i guess really any accumulated wealth/assets is a "trust fund", no?

They live hand to mouth in a house they owe no money on and you give them money. I wonder how low it was before you gave them a hand to get up to hand to mouth existence.

I think uptheos is rite you are a English teacher moving from school to school.

[hellodolly]

It just so happens that I visited Duke's today for a cheeseburger. It was delicious with all the toppings along with fresh cut fries and set me back all of 129 baht. Yes, it's significantly more expensive than Thai food but I only eat burgers 1 or 2 times a month (prefer local food for taste and health but occasionally need a burger fix) and btw, I think Mcd's and BK are more expensive.

89bht for almost the same (no cheese) at Gecko Garden every Tuesday.

Give it a break. Not even close to the same.

And I like them both but they are two completely different burgers and no where near the side dish sizes at Gecko's that the Dukes has.

Also you can go into Duke's any time of the day seven days a week and pay the same price every day. Geckos is only on Tuesdays.

[hellodolly]

He talks a good game dolly....my guess is English teacher.

that would make you feel better, wouldnt it? then you could look down from your ivory tower of mediocrity and scoff at my protestations, right?

but, nah. i dont teach. dont make some measly 30k/month.

^look, my grammar's all messed

What a give away. Cheers

.

Cuz i know the salaries? 55 ya, thats failproof logic, there. Say, the browns just signed tannenhill for 4 years at 8m...I must be an nfl qb, too 55

If it makes you feel better, think im a lowly teacher slaving away for peanuts. Makes no difference to me.

You might work on staying on topic, tho.

Now it is not only back packers you look down on it is also teachers.

No problem with your ego.

So sorry if I a humble old man have offended you SIR.

[samsara]

..unlike sex tourists and retired expats you mean?

They live hand to mouth in a house they owe no money on and you give them money. I wonder how low it was before you gave them a hand to get up to hand to mouth existence.

I think uptheos is rite you are a English teacher moving from school to school.

parents are not always forthcoming about their true situation. face isnt a phenomenon reserved for thailand alone. to be more specific, i give them work so that they can kind of earn their way.

not a teacher, man. much respect to those who teach but its definitely not something i want to do, no matter the compensation.

btw, this quote system for ipb is absolutely awful

[WinnieTheKhwai]

It just so happens that I visited Duke's today for a cheeseburger. It was delicious with all the toppings along with fresh cut fries and set me back all of 129 baht. Yes, it's significantly more expensive than Thai food but I only eat burgers 1 or 2 times a month (prefer local food for taste and health but occasionally need a burger fix) and btw, I think Mcd's and BK are more expensive.

89bht for almost the same (no cheese) at Gecko Garden every Tuesday.

Give it a break. Not even close to the same.

And I like them both but they are two completely different burgers and no where near the side dish sizes at Gecko's that the Dukes has.

Also you can go into Duke's any time of the day seven days a week and pay the same price every day. Geckos is only on Tuesdays.

And... there we are. [hits stopwatch button] Almost exactly 4 hours into the discussion we arrived at hamburgers as a topic. Not sure if that's new TV record?

Edited July 25, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[samsara]

Now it is not only back packers you look down on it is also teachers.

No problem with your ego.

So sorry if I a humble old man have offended you SIR.

some teachers, yes. theyre not qualified and have no business in the classroom. theyre just getting money any way they can.

as for backpackers, its not a matter of "looking down", theyre just an annoyance. the budget transient population they form may help cheap guesthouses to survive but it does far more to transform public opinion of farangs by thais, of the overall vibe/aura of the place for the worse. sex tourists do the same. not saying theyre on the same level, but the effects are very similar.

case in pt, i was at dukes (of all places 55) and there was a young farang nearly passed out from singha sitting outside at dukes. he actually broke bottles when he took his money out to pay. as he left the waitress turned to me and asked, " why does young farang get mao so much"?

not all of them get blasted every night, but many of them do. and everyone else here, as a farang, suffers the consequences. dont think so? go try living some place that doesnt have backpackers roll through every week. completely different thai attitude.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Anyway, I have something to add on 'ruining' a place. You need to take the natural progression and development of a place on board.

Suppose you start out with an almost deserted island with a bunch of coconut trees on it, and fishing boats off the coast. Say, Ko Samui in the 1970's and early 1980's. Or Ko Pha ngan and Ko Tao just a tad later. At that point such a location is completely impossible as a destination for discerning, monied 5-star quality tourists, or for families. Because there is *nothing*. No infrastructure. Electricity maybe part of the day if you're lucky, from noisy generators. No logistics in place to get fresh exotic (Western) food to the island. Virtually impossible to get a company in to put in a nice swimming pool, air-conditioned bungalows and so on.

The ONLY people who will visit such a place are backpackers. Then gradually the locals make more money, the place gets more popular and it gradually develops into ... well, depending on your point of view it develops in a well known international beach resort, or into 'tourist hell'. But either way it would be decidedly silly to blame those backpackers for that. If anything the locals probably have to thank them for kick-starting things, or they'd still be collecting coconuts and fishing off the coast.

Chiang Mai is a bit different of course because it already was a significant city long before there was tourism of any kind. As it remains a significant and growing city it's also far harder for any kind of tourism to mess it up.

Edited July 25, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[eek]

Ive never done the backpacker thing, but i admire it.

So what if they use a guide..particularly initially. Its one thing going on an adventure, but another taking some major risk in the middle of no mans land. If a backpacker needed rescuing from a dangerous place that he/she took a chance on without any kind of info, im sure plenty would call them utter idiots. Everyone needs to start somewhere, so some kind of guide makes complete sense imo.

Personally i love that they come. Because i head down to Thapae way sometimes and sit with a coffee watching the world go by. The backpackers are a real mixed bunch and it makes for fantastic people watching. Some comical, some exotic, some completely clueless, but all very entertaining!

Edited July 25, 2012 by eek

[samsara]

Anyway, I have something to add on 'ruining' a place. You need to take the natural progression and development of a place on board.

Suppose you start out with an almost desered island with a bunch of coconut trees on it, and fishing boats off the coast. Say, Ko Samui in the 1970's and early 1980's. Or Ko Pha ngan and Ko Tao just a tad later. At that point it is completely impossible as a destination for discerning monied 5-star quality tourists or families. Because there is *nothing*. No infrastructure. Electricity maybe part of the day if you're lucky, from noisy generators. No logistics in place to get fresh exotic (Western) food to the island. Virtually impossible to get a company in to put in a nice swimming pool, air-conditioned bungalows and so on.

The ONLY people who will visit such a place are backpackers. Then gradually the locals make more money, the place gets more popular and it gradually develops into ... well, depending on your point of view it develops in a world class beach resort or into 'tourist hell'. But either way it would be decidedly silly to blame those backpackers for that. If anything the locals probably have to thank them for kick-starting things, or they'd still be collecting coconuts and fishing off the coast.

Chiang Mai is a bit different of course because it already was a significant city long before there was tourism of any kind. As it remains a significant and growing city it's also far harder for any kind of tourism to mess it up.

good pts.

id prefer the deserted island

not sure i agree re: chiang mai, though. ive only been here 2 months so i cant judge, but from talking to long-termers they seem to describe modernization/tourism at the expense of genuineness and the "real thailand". generally, thats been my feeling across thailand (and the world). the more people find it, the more it loses its initial charm.

[edwinclapham]

I have backpacked around UK and many parts of SE Asia/ Australia.

The best time of my life.

The intelligent wrinklies have always given my mates and I the thumbs up. It provides you with some very important lessons in life one of which is to stay clear of the whingers

[uptheos]

I have backpacked around UK and many parts of SE Asia/ Australia.

The best time of my life.

The intelligent wrinklies have always given my mates and I the thumbs up. It provides you with some very important lessons in life one of which is to stay clear of the whingers

Keep going for as long as you can, it's something you will look back on all your life with many memories, good and bad. A lot of people are unable to do backpacking for many reasons, but just because someone can't do a thing, it is not necessary to be jealous and angry at those that can. I hope you get to see many more splendid places........on the cheap.

[hellodolly]

Ive never done the backpacker thing, but i admire it.

So what if they use a guide..particularly initially. Its one thing going on an adventure, but another taking some major risk in the middle of no mans land. If a backpacker needed rescuing from a dangerous place that he/she took a chance on without any kind of info, im sure plenty would call them utter idiots. Everyone needs to start somewhere, so some kind of guide makes complete sense imo.

Personally i love that they come. Because i head down to Thapae way sometimes and sit with a coffee watching the world go by. The backpackers are a real mixed bunch and it makes for fantastic people watching. Some comical, some exotic, some completely clueless, but all very entertaining!

Actually I like to do it from the second floor in Starbucks. It is every thing you said and more.

I had a acting instructor who suggested to do just such a thing and pick one out of the crowd and imagine his/her past and future life.

[hellodolly]

I have backpacked around UK and many parts of SE Asia/ Australia.

The best time of my life.

The intelligent wrinklies have always given my mates and I the thumbs up. It provides you with some very important lessons in life one of which is to stay clear of the whingers

Keep going for as long as you can, it's something you will look back on all your life with many memories, good and bad. A lot of people are unable to do backpacking for many reasons, but just because someone can't do a thing, it is not necessary to be jealous and angry at those that can. I hope you get to see many more splendid places........on the cheap.

I hope you get to see some that are not cheap. Then you will be better able to understand that travel can broaden your mind.

[cmsally]

I've got a friend who still backpacks and she is 75. It has nothing to do with the money its just how she likes to travel.

When not backpacking around Asia she is to be found hiking in Europe or US.

[hellodolly]

I've got a friend who still backpacks and she is 75. It has nothing to do with the money its just how she likes to travel.

When not backpacking around Asia she is to be found hiking in Europe or US.

OK now I am envious.

[uptheos]

I've got a friend who still backpacks and she is 75. It has nothing to do with the money its just how she likes to travel.

When not backpacking around Asia she is to be found hiking in Europe or US.

That's great and I bet even at 75 she's finding places we never knew existed.

[cmsally]

Another friend who used to backpack a lot in Thailand back in the 80's, recently went back to one of the first places she visited; which happened to be the place where she planned out a business she started, which has done quite well.

It was a beachfront hut/guesthouse on Koh Phangan which cost something like 100 Bt/night

When arriving in the exact location she discovered it had been replaced by a hotel costing around 10,000 Bt/night

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Anyway, I have something to add on 'ruining' a place. You need to take the natural progression and development of a place on board.

Suppose you start out with an almost desered island with a bunch of coconut trees on it, and fishing boats off the coast. Say, Ko Samui in the 1970's and early 1980's. Or Ko Pha ngan and Ko Tao just a tad later. At that point it is completely impossible as a destination for discerning monied 5-star quality tourists or families. Because there is *nothing*. No infrastructure. Electricity maybe part of the day if you're lucky, from noisy generators. No logistics in place to get fresh exotic (Western) food to the island. Virtually impossible to get a company in to put in a nice swimming pool, air-conditioned bungalows and so on.

The ONLY people who will visit such a place are backpackers. Then gradually the locals make more money, the place gets more popular and it gradually develops into ... well, depending on your point of view it develops in a world class beach resort or into 'tourist hell'. But either way it would be decidedly silly to blame those backpackers for that. If anything the locals probably have to thank them for kick-starting things, or they'd still be collecting coconuts and fishing off the coast.

Chiang Mai is a bit different of course because it already was a significant city long before there was tourism of any kind. As it remains a significant and growing city it's also far harder for any kind of tourism to mess it up.

good pts.

id prefer the deserted island

not sure i agree re: chiang mai, though. ive only been here 2 months so i cant judge, but from talking to long-termers they seem to describe modernization/tourism at the expense of genuineness and the "real thailand".

Yes, and they'd be wrong. I think it's just what old people do, they default into an 'everything was better in the old days'-mood.

Objectively, Chiang Mai has never been better than it is today, and getting better still. Either way, tourism plays a relatively minor part in the overall growth and modernisation, looking at the city as a whole. On this forum too you see rants for example against shopping malls; none of those are built with the tourist market in mind.

As far as backpackers, I'm actually concerned that they're on the decline, making way for monied couples, families, and tourists from Korea, China and Singapore. I think that trend will continue, and that Burma will happen in a big way.

[Ulysses G.]

He talks a good game dolly....my guess is English teacher.

Speaking of English teachers. Here is a great thread on freeloaders doing tutoring at Starbucks and not ordering anything.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/572448-starbucks-thailand-tells-teachers-order-more-coffee-or-get-lost/#entry5516808

[BlackArtemis]

As a younger guy, 30, I still jaunt off to a country here and there and do the same. There are tons of great people "backpacking" or traveling. However, as an Expat there are things that truly bother me.

These issues center around lack of respect for the culture.

The shirtless people in Chiang Mai, I understand if you are on the beach, but we're a ways away from one.

Improper dress at temples.

Drunken misconduct (I frequent Zoe's area on occasion and see lots of trouble).

Smoking on walking street and in the temples (Sundays)

I would like to let this roll right off my back, but how they act has a long term effect on me. They might just get dirty looks for the few days, but I have to deal with their created stereotype each day.

I wish Thailand could put out a "welcome to Thailand" Pamphlet for hotels/hostels/airports/etc and address these problems, because when I end up talking to some tourists about things, like dress, most react well, never knew it was wrong (really though?) and even make an effort to reverse what they were doing.

On a side note, just because you are traveling, it doesn't mean you can't pack a pair of jeans and at least one button down and some shoes. Showing up to a bar in your boarding shorts, Chang Beer Singlet, and flipflops is pretty bad, hilarious when you try it at places like Warm Up.

[jackr]

dukes is way overpriced for what you get. its a step above sizzler.

Probably one of the strangest things I've read on here.

-

Never had a problem with them--I was one, albeit yuppie style. On them being a scourge and pain, etc, the humble backpacker may say the same about the typical expat. I've certainly had more problems with pissant lifers embarrassing themselves than young uns looking to have a bit of fun. But if one wants to defer to the analogy that this or that type spoil a place, why not go whole hog and say that everyone does and we should all eff off?

I do agree, however, that the unshirted need a right royal boot up the jacksy.

Edited July 25, 2012 by jackr

[elektrified]

This is what David from Dukes said in another thread.

"The backpacker trade is a good one. They spend a lot for food and drink"

If anyone would know, it's him

I'm quite surprised that any backpackers would want to eat at such an overpriced place(s) firmly aimed at aging westerners.

But have a 50% Thai clientele.

[elektrified]

All the ones I have seen in Thailand are dirty, smelly and look like they are high on something or just coming off it. They also like to talk about how little they have spent everyday.

On a recent trip to Bangkok I met 2 guys on the train that were backpackers. They were Swedes and worked as engineers for Volvo. I have one of their business cards here. They stayed in a 150 THB room in BKK. I didn't know such a place existed. They wanted to see Thailand in a way they would not see otherwise. They were very nice guys, very intelligent, clean and polite.

[elektrified]

Just out of curiosity did you earn your own money or is it more like family money.

I do admit we have a fair share of trust fund babies here in Thailand.

Ain't that the truth. I've met a number of them. They are pretty easy to spot.