Thailand Education Removes English Requirement

[bonobo]

I think this is a little better fit in General vice the Bangkok forum.

MOVED.

[meand]

All I can say is keep living in that cocoon and keep believing that you do not need English. Let's see how far that takes you.

That is the best quote of the thread, and a perfect synthesis.

[aneliane]

It's a lot better,that they educate Chinese as second language.

There are coming a lot more Chinese tourist to Thailand then English.

But the educated Chinese are learing English.

And the preferred language of communication among all foreign tourists from Asia is English. Source: Thai tour guide friends.

yup that's is good news, more expat opportunities to teach private

[arthurwait]

This is actually good.

Because this means less people learns english in school, and will probably will need to seek external education, which leads to more business opportunities for teaching expats.

Only those that can afford it. Probably only about 10% of those currently learning, but that's the 10% who will actually ever need to use English at work.

It's only a business opportunity to the TEFLs that can afford to meet all the financial requirements for starting a business here which wouldn't be many.

Maybe the 90% that will never need English will learn a subject that they actually need instead.

I wish they had done this with French while I was at school.

[GuestHouse]

The problem with learning english is, once learned it opens the doors to reading stuff that has not been censored for acceptability for Thais to read.

[Kananga]

What are you on? "Malay"!!! Even in Malaysia they are trying to make it compulsory to teach Maths ans Science in English! Most companies in Malaysia operate in English. Even China is trying to promote English among their graduates.

Drop English and dig that hole deeper, Thailand used to have a stronger draw. That has slowly been reducing due to the political situation ( from the airport closure to the red riots), the increase of violence and crime against foreigners, neighboring countries opening their doors and starting to be more attractive and cheaper.

All I can say is keep living in that cocoon and keep believing that you do not need English. Let's see how far that takes you.

Considering the free flow of labour in 2015, if Thais wish to work in any of these countries, the native language would put them in better steed than English. Yes in some industries English would be an advantage but the local language would be better, or are you assuming that everyone within ASEAN speaks English...I really cant connect airport closures and political riots with learning English, its irrelevant to these situations.

2015, you speak of AFTA. Mandarin is not a first language in any of the ASEAN countries. AFTA is only for ASEAN countries not ASIA. Private sectors in Malaysia, Brunei, Singapore and Phillipines use English as their primary language. If you wish to work here you need English, period. I have worked in Malaysia, Singapore, Phillipines, Thailand and have been to Brunei. So my statement is based on first hand experience.

The political scenario has slowed down foreign investment and a large number of high spending tourist. To drop English in Thailand will only compound the issue. Geez, I did not think I had to spell it out.

Well, my visits to Singapore and Malaysia showed a different side....locals communicated in their own dialect not English...maybe when you worked there, they communicated to you in Engish, simply because that is your language. Surely working in Singapore you must know Mandarine and Malay are official languages regonised by the government, Malay is the official language of Malaysia and Chineese is commonly used, Malay is also the official language of Brunei, so it does make sense when you look outside of the box.

No, no no, you have it wrong my friend. In Singapore the locals of the same ethnicity speak to each other in the same dialect, but a Singaporean Indian would speak to a Singaporean Chinese in English, and a Singaporean Malay would speak to a Singaporean Indian in English. Singapore has four official languages, Mandarin, Tamil, Malay and English. Why do you think this is? The first three are to ensure that the racial segregation remains strong through the mother tongue language education program and the fourth English is so they can communicate with each other and the business world at large.

Being proficient in Greek would be as useful in doing regional business in Europe as being proficient in Malay would be for Asia and being proficient in Mandarin would be as useful as speaking German in Europe. Fine for specific national markets but as we all know any Greeks or Germans who work at an international level need to speak English. It is the same for Asia. Except in Thailand, where they seem to think they know better.

[mjj]

After living in thailand for 5 years I've noticed all Thais use English in general conversation. There isn't even a Thai word for apple.

It should be the second language and should be mandatory in every school from at least age 3.

Yes there is, it's 'appen'.

[lonexpat]

Just asked my daughter. Appen seems to be correct.

[samran]

Maybe cutting English lessons at your average Thai government school is not such a bad thing. The standard of teaching is generally very poor (that isn't a dig at TEFL teachers, it is directed at Thai teachers).

The average Thai doesn't need English language skills, and maybe more time and resources can be directed towards things in the curriculum that they do need, such as literacy in the Thai language and numeracy.

Personally I agree that it seems a little short-sighted, but maybe there is some method in their madness.

Spot on I reckon. It comes down to a value for money proposition.

I think every man and his dog in government knows the importance of English. There are tonnes of civil service scholarships for young grads to go and study overseas. Favourite desitnations are generally the UK, US, Australia and NZ. Many mid to senior civil servants I know speak English pretty well. So I don't buy this <deleted> about the government (of any stripe) not wanting people to learn English.

Same in the private sector. Good (larger firms) often have classes for their workers.

And the rest?

How is the money best spent? Should the government continue to throw money at second rate english teachers (both Thai and foreign) forcing the language in a compulsory class that most don't want to be at, and will never have a chance to practice? I think of all the French lessons I had for 5 years- and still can't speak a word.

Is English important? Sure.

In an ideal world should more Thai's be learning it? Arguably yes.

But you look at any government budget process in the world - and when it comes to educational funding, what is usually the first to go? Foreign languages.

Aye, nothing brings out the bashers like thread such as this.

Edited August 8, 2012 by samran

[bendejo]

A few years ago the Malaysian gov't, in its wisdom, decided that math and science will no longer be taught in English, but in Malay. The Malaysian press promoted as great expression of cultural pride, etc. This may have been reversed since but I wouldn't know, haven't been keeping up.

I have the impression that somewhere out there is the idea that by NOT teaching their people foreign languages it will keep them in the home country, and thus prevent the 'brain drain' of educated people moving elsewhere. I don't think Malaysia is worried about their people moving to Indonesia (where they can speak Malay and be fairly understood) nor Thailand worried about its citizens moving to Lao.

[Fookhaht]

Just asked my daughter. Appen seems to be correct.

Don't know if your post was a tongue-in-cheek post or not, but Thais say "appen" only because they cannot pronounce the "L" at the end of a word. They always substitute it with an "N" as is done also in the Thai language.

Hence you have: "noodun" (noodle), "poodun" (poodle), and "schoon" (school) -- all commonly used in the Thai language.

[samran]

Never have heard noodun or schoon used in any proper Thai conversations except where the speaker is using pigeon. Strange. Poodun would be fine. It is an imported breed and they've just localised a foreign word.

[Radar501]

Just asked my daughter. Appen seems to be correct.

Don't know if your post was a tongue-in-cheek post or not, but Thais say "appen" only because they cannot pronounce the "L" at the end of a word. They always substitute it with an "N" as is done also in the Thai language.

Hence you have: "noodun" (noodle), "poodun" (poodle), and "schoon" (school) -- all commonly used in the Thai language.

Conversely, Thai words with syllables that end with an 'n' sound but are spelt with a 'ล' are sometimes translated into English with an 'l' e.g. Cholburi, Ubol Ratchathani

Edited August 8, 2012 by Radar501

[Kananga]

Never have heard noodun or schoon used in any proper Thai conversations except where the speaker is using pigeon. Strange. Poodun would be fine. It is an imported breed and they've just localised a foreign word.

Never heard speakers using pigeon before except where the speaker is using pidgin. Strange. Appun would be fine. It is an imported fruit and they've just localised a foreign word.

[h90]

It would make sense if English was replaced by Chinese BUT

1- this is not mentioned, so does it mean "our language is sufficient to communicate with the world" or "Thais do not need to communicate with the rest of the world"?

2- my daughters study Chinese since 7 and 8 years => they know NOTHING. It's far better in English, just due to motivation. At the end it's more or less the same: if no motivation, they can study English for 10 years without any result.

No with English you can communicate with Chinese, Germans and Japanese, even a few Italian and French...

With Chinese you can communicate with Chinese only.....

English is the worldwide language....If you search for scientific works, it is always available in the native language and English.

But I never saw a German writing his work in German and Chinese.

[Mosha]

Just this week on BBC. They were saying that Chinese businesses are encouraged to run their business meetings in English.

[whistleblower]

The Education Ministry has scrapped a plan to make English the country's second language, saying it could lead to misunderstandings that Thailand had been colonised in the past.

Nationalism will get you every time.

[mjj]

Just asked my daughter. Appen seems to be correct.

Don't know if your post was a tongue-in-cheek post or not, but Thais say "appen" only because they cannot pronounce the "L" at the end of a word. They always substitute it with an "N" as is done also in the Thai language.

Hence you have: "noodun" (noodle), "poodun" (poodle), and "schoon" (school) -- all commonly used in the Thai language.

It was tongue in cheek. And this is the problem with the English in Thailand. Can they say L? Yes, because they say Lor Ling, but from what I've experienced here, they don't see the problem.

Thailand needs to make a choice, either bin learning English or learn it properly. I'm not suggesting it is easy to learn English, but what is the point of learning it to a level that the rest of the English speaking world will not understand? Most of us will fill in their mistakes because we understand them more as we live here, but you take Somchai to Europe or wherever and they will have no clue.

Horse, they say whore. Six they sick.

I wan sick whore. Or I want six horses. Very different.

Also they don't know how to tranliterate properly. Suvarnabhumi. No, why have a v if you use a w sound and why have the I at the end. Words like this make teaching phonetics pointless and they do not make sense. An example of the way it should be done is with Japanese. Most Japanese is easy to read when written in English because the spell it phonetically. In Thai you have no ideal what to pronounce.

As for learning Chinese, sure learning any language is a good thing, but the purpose of Chinese? Only to do business in China or travel in China and how many people will that be from school?

[arthurwait]

Never have heard noodun or schoon used in any proper Thai conversations except where the speaker is using pigeon. Strange. Poodun would be fine. It is an imported breed and they've just localised a foreign word.

Have you been to centan world though ?

It took me nearly 10 years to work out why my wifes cousin was called 'Little' and 'Ton'.

[Beetlejuice]

Total rubbish.

There has been no such plan to discontinue English as the official second language in Thailand, if so, where is the source please?

The said article explains that in some schools and Universities which cater more for students from the poorer rural provinces, may discontinue they’re English language curriculum’s because it has proved too challenging and therefore the local authorities intend to create separate English language and bi-lingual schools as extended education projects separate from teachings at the schools and Universities. This only applies to a very few educational establishments in the poorer areas or those that deal with poorer communities, to help students that have learning difficulties or have had low standards of education due to low grade schooling.

[mowgus]

I can't read Thai so, that's why I was asking if anyone had heard about it. I haven't found any good English articles on it and figured someone from Thaivisa would know the truth.

As for rural schools....I can see your point...and as someone else pointed out, I also had french classes all through public school and I cannot speak French. However, to state that this would only affect rural areas is not correct. The person who was telling me about this is in University in Chiang Mai and they are cutting several English taught classes (and using the government agenda, or lack thereof to justify the cuts).

[mowgus]

The Education Ministry has scrapped a plan to make English the country's second language, saying it could lead to misunderstandings that Thailand had been colonised in the past.

Nationalism will get you every time.

Where did you pull that quote from Whistleblower?

[mrtoad]

All I can say is keep living in that cocoon and keep believing that you do not need English. Let's see how far that takes you.

That is the best quote of the thread, and a perfect synthesis.

Kentucky University, and then the Premiership of Thailand.

[culicine]

]

Well, my visits to Singapore and Malaysia showed a different side....locals communicated in their own dialect not English...maybe when you worked there, they communicated to you in Engish, simply because that is your language. Surely working in Singapore you must know Mandarine and Malay are official languages regonised by the government, Malay is the official language of Malaysia and Chineese is commonly used, Malay is also the official language of Brunei, so it does make sense when you look outside of the box.

BTW, I'm Malaysian. The Chinese spoken in Malaysia is normally, Cantonese, Hokkien, Mandrin. It depends where you go. Try confusing the Thais with that, if go Penang, learn Hokkien, if go KL, learn Cantonese, etc. My son was born abroad and is also Malaysian. He does not speak a word of Malay - not a problem, he is back in Malaysia now for two years and still cannot speak Malay. Requirements in Brunei when hiring Malaysians is English ( a must). Although Mandrin is the second language of Singapore, half of Singaporeans do not speak it. Not everyone in Singapore is Chinese. BTW Mandrin and Malay are the official second language and I think is optional in schools.

So, I still disagree with you that Malay and Mandrin is a better option than English for Thais to learn in school.

My wife has ALWAYS used english in her business dealings (she's an academic), when she has been in East Timor, South Korea, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc. She also uses english with other Thais in the presence of foreign guests at conferences in Thailand. It's the language of business in the region. Thailand dropping or weakening it's english requirement in universities will be to it's detriment in terms of it's international competitiveness in the region.

[sbk]

The Education Ministry has scrapped a plan to make English the country's second language, saying it could lead to misunderstandings that Thailand had been colonised in the past.

Nationalism will get you every time.

Where did you pull that quote from Whistleblower?

Yes a current source would be good. Only thing i can find is a two year old reference to a Bangkok Post article that no longer exists.

[MrMuddle]

Just asked my daughter. Appen seems to be correct.

Don't know if your post was a tongue-in-cheek post or not, but Thais say "appen" only because they cannot pronounce the "L" at the end of a word. They always substitute it with an "N" as is done also in the Thai language.

Hence you have: "noodun" (noodle), "poodun" (poodle), and "schoon" (school) -- all commonly used in the Thai language.

It was tongue in cheek. And this is the problem with the English in Thailand. Can they say L? Yes, because they say Lor Ling, but from what I've experienced here, they don't see the problem.

Thailand needs to make a choice, either bin learning English or learn it properly. I'm not suggesting it is easy to learn English, but what is the point of learning it to a level that the rest of the English speaking world will not understand? Most of us will fill in their mistakes because we understand them more as we live here, but you take Somchai to Europe or wherever and they will have no clue.

Horse, they say whore. Six they sick.

I wan sick whore. Or I want six horses. Very different.

Also they don't know how to tranliterate properly. Suvarnabhumi. No, why have a v if you use a w sound and why have the I at the end. Words like this make teaching phonetics pointless and they do not make sense. An example of the way it should be done is with Japanese. Most Japanese is easy to read when written in English because the spell it phonetically. In Thai you have no ideal what to pronounce.

As for learning Chinese, sure learning any language is a good thing, but the purpose of Chinese? Only to do business in China or travel in China and how many people will that be from school?

You can have the six horses mate, I'll have...

[Gary A]

Here in Thailand and likely many other countries the right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing. Recently here in the boonies of Loei province teachers were very actively trying to recruit native English speakers to teach in the local schools. Unfortunately the Thai English teachers speak VERY poor English and how they are able to teach students is another question.

I too was approached and was not interested at all. I am a crotchety old fart and kids irritate me. I was a bit nosy though and asked about hours and a work permit. I was told to not worry about a work permit and that if I did have any visa issues at all that the local authorities would help with any problems. The hours would depend on the volunteers and how active they wanted to be. A friend of mine was willing and interested but when they gave him some sort of contract to sign (it was in Thai) he declined to sign it.

[Phatcharanan]

A few years ago the Malaysian gov't, in its wisdom, decided that math and science will no longer be taught in English, but in Malay. The Malaysian press promoted as great expression of cultural pride, etc. This may have been reversed since but I wouldn't know, haven't been keeping up.

Correct. As of 2012 Math and Science are no longer taught in English.

However, English lit. and grammar/composition are compulsory and in fact the taught hours have been increased within Primary

[petedk]

Well, I heard something about this. Thais are proud of the fact that they haven't been colonized so English is NOT a scond language but with the coming of AEC (Asean Community) in three years many Thais are beginning to panic.

I have been teaching here for 12 years and have never been so busy as now. My fees for teaching have gone up by 300% (Oh, I learnt this from taxi drivers and other poor Thai people.) and still no problem in finding customers. These are good times for qualified or popular English teachers.

[barefoot1988]

what? every else are moving forward, what are they thinking?