When To Pee And When To Nong

[Naam]

In the Bangkok Sky train when people block my way to the Exit I say " ka toht krap" because I talking to more than one person.

In a shop I say "Pee Kap...."

"Ka toht khurp " I am told actually means "Excuse me" so you are being polite when someone is in your way................... good on you matey good manners don't cost you a penny/stang

where's the "ka" in ขอโทษ ?

[mania]

where's the "ka" in ขอโทษ ?

ขอ = kor or kaw part of kor tort

Female would add another Kaa at the end

ขอโทษ ดะ

Edited July 26, 2012 by mania

[mca]

Pee used to address people in the same generation as you but slightly older.

Nong used to address people in the same generation as you but slightly younger PLUS ALL SERVICE STAFF.

Baa and Lung for the generation above you.

You never address anyone serving you in any way as Pee.

(Same game as wai-ing 'inferiors')

It's all about status in Thai culture, status is often derived from age, but when you are serving you get to be the lowest status, hence Nong.

Have to politely take issue with you on a few things here Tommo.

It's "Pa" not "Baa". Saying "Baa" would indicate you consider the aunt in question mad.

I'll refer to my daughter's friends/cousins etc as "nong" and they're certainly not the same generation as me.

All serving staff to be referred to as nong? Well as I'm in my mid-40s then the vast majority of serving staff are younger than me so "nong" is appropriate but I'll certainly call a waitress "Pi" if she's obviously 50 or thereabouts. Add another decade onto that and she warrants a "Khun Pa". I aren't going to call her nong am I as she's older than me no matter her perceived "status"?

[mca]

Good question, actually an I'd be interested to here what others have to say on this.

I think normally, for younger it is Nong, and for older it is Pee. However, where I work, a lot of the staff refer to each other as Pee - unless it is senior management, and then the more formal addresses are used. We do have a couple of staff who are addressed as loong as well. I don't think anyone would be upset by being addressed as Nong if they are youger, and most certainly in 7/11 or a number of restaurants, but I guess I'm getting to that age where there are more younger people than me.

When I worked in a BKK hotel the HR lady was older than me and we were quite close so I called her Pi and her nickname. The Finance guy was of a similar age to her but I only ever saw him at excom meetings so he warranted a Khun. Everybody ( even the resident manager) referred to the oldest lady in the hotel ( a room attendant of about 55 ) as Pa.

[TommoPhysicist]

Have to politely take issue with you on a few things here Tommo.

It's "Pa" not "Baa". Saying "Baa" would indicate you consider the aunt in question mad.

I'll refer to my daughter's friends/cousins etc as "nong" and they're certainly not the same generation as me.

All serving staff to be referred to as nong? Well as I'm in my mid-40s then the vast majority of serving staff are younger than me so "nong" is appropriate but I'll certainly call a waitress "Pi" if she's obviously 50 or thereabouts. Add another decade onto that and she warrants a "Khun Pa". I aren't going to call her nong am I as she's older than me no matter her perceived "status"?

Arguing about Pa or Baa in a forum where we are not allowed to use Thai script is a pointless waste of everyone's time.

As for the serving staff, when they are serving you their social status is clearly below yours (else you would be serving them), hence nong.

[Shotime]

What about: yo?

I don't think it was meant to be funny. I like yo, or hey, you. I don't involve myself with such Thai distinctions. I'm a stupid farang so why try to be smart.

[canuckamuck]

Have to politely take issue with you on a few things here Tommo.

It's "Pa" not "Baa". Saying "Baa" would indicate you consider the aunt in question mad.

I'll refer to my daughter's friends/cousins etc as "nong" and they're certainly not the same generation as me.

All serving staff to be referred to as nong? Well as I'm in my mid-40s then the vast majority of serving staff are younger than me so "nong" is appropriate but I'll certainly call a waitress "Pi" if she's obviously 50 or thereabouts. Add another decade onto that and she warrants a "Khun Pa". I aren't going to call her nong am I as she's older than me no matter her perceived "status"?

Arguing about Pa or Baa in a forum where we are not allowed to use Thai script is a pointless waste of everyone's time.

As for the serving staff, when they are serving you their social status is clearly below yours (else you would be serving them), hence nong.

I think you are wrong. Calling someone more than a decade older than me nong would be ridiculous. The tag applies to age primarily.

[mca]

Have to politely take issue with you on a few things here Tommo.

It's "Pa" not "Baa". Saying "Baa" would indicate you consider the aunt in question mad.

I'll refer to my daughter's friends/cousins etc as "nong" and they're certainly not the same generation as me.

All serving staff to be referred to as nong? Well as I'm in my mid-40s then the vast majority of serving staff are younger than me so "nong" is appropriate but I'll certainly call a waitress "Pi" if she's obviously 50 or thereabouts. Add another decade onto that and she warrants a "Khun Pa". I aren't going to call her nong am I as she's older than me no matter her perceived "status"?

Arguing about Pa or Baa in a forum where we are not allowed to use Thai script is a pointless waste of everyone's time.

As for the serving staff, when they are serving you their social status is clearly below yours (else you would be serving them), hence nong.

Not getting into an argument but all the phonetic translations ( as close as you could get without using Thai script) will have it as Pa.

Out of interest if you were addressing her how would you refer to a waitress who was older than you?

Edited July 26, 2012 by mca

[transam]

Have to politely take issue with you on a few things here Tommo.

It's "Pa" not "Baa". Saying "Baa" would indicate you consider the aunt in question mad.

I'll refer to my daughter's friends/cousins etc as "nong" and they're certainly not the same generation as me.

All serving staff to be referred to as nong? Well as I'm in my mid-40s then the vast majority of serving staff are younger than me so "nong" is appropriate but I'll certainly call a waitress "Pi" if she's obviously 50 or thereabouts. Add another decade onto that and she warrants a "Khun Pa". I aren't going to call her nong am I as she's older than me no matter her perceived "status"?

Arguing about Pa or Baa in a forum where we are not allowed to use Thai script is a pointless waste of everyone's time.

As for the serving staff, when they are serving you their social status is clearly below yours (else you would be serving them), hence nong.

How would you speak to a member of the serving staff who was older than you?

I think it would be, Oui.

[Semper]

Have to politely take issue with you on a few things here Tommo.

It's "Pa" not "Baa". Saying "Baa" would indicate you consider the aunt in question mad.

I'll refer to my daughter's friends/cousins etc as "nong" and they're certainly not the same generation as me.

All serving staff to be referred to as nong? Well as I'm in my mid-40s then the vast majority of serving staff are younger than me so "nong" is appropriate but I'll certainly call a waitress "Pi" if she's obviously 50 or thereabouts. Add another decade onto that and she warrants a "Khun Pa". I aren't going to call her nong am I as she's older than me no matter her perceived "status"?

Arguing about Pa or Baa in a forum where we are not allowed to use Thai script is a pointless waste of everyone's time.

As for the serving staff, when they are serving you their social status is clearly below yours (else you would be serving them), hence nong.

I think you are wrong. Calling someone more than a decade older than me nong would be ridiculous. The tag applies to age primarily.

Well, I can only speak of CM. If someone work as a serving staff are older than you, you're a rare minority.

[transam]

Have to politely take issue with you on a few things here Tommo.

It's "Pa" not "Baa". Saying "Baa" would indicate you consider the aunt in question mad.

I'll refer to my daughter's friends/cousins etc as "nong" and they're certainly not the same generation as me.

All serving staff to be referred to as nong? Well as I'm in my mid-40s then the vast majority of serving staff are younger than me so "nong" is appropriate but I'll certainly call a waitress "Pi" if she's obviously 50 or thereabouts. Add another decade onto that and she warrants a "Khun Pa". I aren't going to call her nong am I as she's older than me no matter her perceived "status"?

Arguing about Pa or Baa in a forum where we are not allowed to use Thai script is a pointless waste of everyone's time.

As for the serving staff, when they are serving you their social status is clearly below yours (else you would be serving them), hence nong.

I think you are wrong. Calling someone more than a decade older than me nong would be ridiculous. The tag applies to age primarily.

Well, I can only speak of CM. If someone work as a serving staff are older than you, you're a rare minority.

You forgot me.

[BWPattaya]

In the Bangkok Sky train when people block my way to the Exit I say " ka toht krap" because I talking to more than one person.

In a shop I say "Pee Kap...."

"Ka toht khurp " I am told actually means "Excuse me" so you are being polite when someone is in your way................... good on you matey good manners don't cost you a penny/stang

ขอโทษ (Ka toht) actually means "can I have punishment" but is used as excuse me or to ask for forgiveness. I never say pee or nong.

[Trembly]

Some service people / shop assistants etc insist on calling me pee even though I am quite obviously younger and conversely expect me to address them as nong.

I don't really care for it myself, I would be quite happy if they just addressed me as khun.

It is not inappropriate for you to address any one you don't know as khun. If you think you'll be talking to them for some time and would like make it more casual then just ask them for their age (khun ayu taorai khrab?) and be done with, it's no big deal.

The use of khun can be more nuanced and versatile than many on TV probably think. It depends on the tone and context. Teachers sometimes address students as khun in a psychological maneuver that can range from trying to get them to grow up a bit to deploying dripping, mocking sarcasm, not dissimilar to the immortal line by some warrant officer "you will call me sir and I will call you sir, the difference is you will mean it".

Edited July 26, 2012 by Trembly

[Trembly]

ฺัBy the way, it's khaw (as in 'saw')-tod or khor-tod.

[arthurwait]

ฺัBy the way, it's khaw (as in 'saw')-tod or khor-tod.

Is that the same Khaw as in the word for want. Kor/khaw bin ? Cup.

[canuckamuck]

The difference of opinion here is interesting. I talked about this thread with my wife and she said there are regional differences. In Bangkok she said it is better to say kuhn, but in small towns and in the country, you can be informal and say pee. (nong seems to be fine in the city, but she would never call an older person nong regardless of the situation)

She equated this to; country people can treat each other like brother and sister. But the city is full of stuffed shirts and self important ...

Well you get the idea.

[Semper]

ขอโทษ (Ka toht) actually means "can I have punishment"

Sounds kinky.

[Trembly]

ฺัBy the way, it's khaw (as in 'saw')-tod or khor-tod.

Is that the same Khaw as in the word for want. Kor/khaw bin ? Cup.

Yes it is.

[Trembly]

The difference of opinion here is interesting. I talked about this thread with my wife and she said there are regional differences. In Bangkok she said it is better to say kuhn, but in small towns and in the country, you can be informal and say pee. (nong seems to be fine in the city, but she would never call an older person nong regardless of the situation)

She equated this to; country people can treat each other like brother and sister. But the city is full of stuffed shirts and self important ...

Well you get the idea.

It might not be so much that city folk are more arrogant or stuffy. The behavioural 'best-practice' developed by city dwellers probably evolved naturally in the inherent anonymity of a city, or mega-city even.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Trembly

[aneliane]

I am not comfortable with using age discrimination words to address anyone, I am terrible at guessing how old someone is, and it seems really wrong.

It reminds me of a past in Europe where service people were addressed by their social status / age and it's one aspect of Thai culture I wish will disappear quickly with globalization

[edwinclapham]

I dont believe that the Thais take offence when addressing Pee /Khun or whatever. It just shows that you have some idea of the Thai etiquette.

sabai sabai

[aneliane]

Etiquette only makes sense when it follows values shared by society

The idea that a person should be respected because of its age, is getting obsolete day by day.

As many fast-developing countries, the old generation is being thrown on the street like old socks and the use of 'Pii" is now more a tongue in cheek comment more than anything

[transam]

Etiquette only makes sense when it follows values shared by society

The idea that a person should be respected because of its age, is getting obsolete day by day.

As many fast-developing countries, the old generation is being thrown on the street like old socks and the use of 'Pii" is now more a tongue in cheek comment more than anything

Not in the North East.

[mca]

the use of 'Pii" is now more a tongue in cheek comment more than anything

How'd you figure that out?

[mrtoad]

the use of 'Pii" is now more a tongue in cheek comment more than anything

How'd you figure that out?

Agreed, I'd like to hear the reasons aneline cane give, could be interesting. Probably, something different going on in those deep , dark sois off On Nut

[edwinclapham]

Etiquette only makes sense when it follows values shared by society

The idea that a person should be respected because of its age, is getting obsolete day by day.

As many fast-developing countries, the old generation is being thrown on the street like old socks and the use of 'Pii" is now more a tongue in cheek comment more than anything

Maybe in Bangkok but there are many areas of Thailand where it is very prevalent !!

Edited July 27, 2012 by edwinclapham

[aneliane]

Etiquette only makes sense when it follows values shared by society

The idea that a person should be respected because of its age, is getting obsolete day by day.

As many fast-developing countries, the old generation is being thrown on the street like old socks and the use of 'Pii" is now more a tongue in cheek comment more than anything

Not in the North East.

not yet

[mca]

^ Not in Thailand full stop.

[aneliane]

Chaeng Wattana Bangkok is not Thailand then

[mca]

Aneliane I'll cut to the chase and stop beating around the bush. If you genuinely think that the use of Pi in Thailand is becoming some sort of tongue in cheek form of address as the old ways supposedly die out as opposed to a completely everyday way that millions of Thais from small kids up and all from all areas and all walks of life address their familiar elders then I'm afraid you're talking complete and utter <deleted>.

Though of course your insistence in another thread that Sakorn Nakorn wasn't in Isaan and that according to you they've only just started eating dog meat means that maybe your finger isn't on the Thai pulse as much as you think.

Sorry.