Reds, Mps Face Legal Action For 'Intimidation'

[Lite Beer]

Reds, MPs face legal action for 'intimidation'

Chanikarn Poomhiran

The Nation on Sunday

BANGKOK: -- The Constitution Court has lodged another complaint against red-shirt leaders and Pheu Thai MPs for contempt of court and threatening the court judges, a source said yesterday.

Among those named in the complaint are Yoswarit Chooklom (aka Jeng Dokjik) and MPs Kokaew Pikultong and Prasit Chaisisa, said the source, who asked not to be named.

The court office earlier asked the Criminal Court to revoke the bail of red-shirt leaders and Pheu Thai MPs facing terrorism charges.

The secretary-general of the Constitution Court office, Chavana Traimas, ordered officers on Friday to file complaints against people who insulted the judges, including those who burnt mock coffins of judges in front of the court, the source said.

The acts were aimed at insulting the court and intimidating the judges, the source said, adding that the penalties would be harsher than for simple acts of defamation against "ordinary" people, the source said.

According to Article 198 of the penal code, the penalties would include one to seven years in jail and/or a fine of Bt2,000-Bt14,000.

The court office had collected evidence that Yoswarit and Prasit verbally attacked the judges and disseminated their phone numbers so that people could call and intimidate them, the source said, while Kokaew allegedly intimidated and forced officers (the court judges) to commit malfeasance.

Each of the court judges can also lodge separate complaints against the accused, along with the Constitution Court office's complaint, the source said.

-- The Nation 2012-07-29

[theajarn]

About time the mobs were accountable for something. I think.

[Woodcaulk]

dam_n right!!! Hit these people and their Paymaster in the pocketbook and update the penalties to hit them much harder than current law allows. Lets see if he can handle the extra expense of fomenting his violent shenanigans.

[TomTao]

Good to see the court refusing to be intimidated, throw the book at these rabble rousers, give them a good long time to consider the consequences of thier actions.

[Ricardo]

Yet another reason for the government to need a political amnesty, and their drive to abolish certain courts, they're too uppity !

[Noistar]

Reds, MPs face legal action for 'intimidation'

Chanikarn Poomhiran

The Nation on Sunday

BANGKOK: -- The Constitution Court has lodged another complaint against red-shirt leaders and Pheu Thai MPs for contempt of court and threatening the court judges, a source said yesterday.

Among those named in the complaint are Yoswarit Chooklom (aka Jeng Dokjik) and MPs Kokaew Pikultong and Prasit Chaisisa, said the source, who asked not to be named.

The court office earlier asked the Criminal Court to revoke the bail of red-shirt leaders and Pheu Thai MPs facing terrorism charges.

The secretary-general of the Constitution Court office, Chavana Traimas, ordered officers on Friday to file complaints against people who insulted the judges, including those who burnt mock coffins of judges in front of the court, the source said.

The acts were aimed at insulting the court and intimidating the judges, the source said, adding that the penalties would be harsher than for simple acts of defamation against "ordinary" people, the source said.

According to Article 198 of the penal code, the penalties would include one to seven years in jail and/or a fine of Bt2,000-Bt14,000.

The court office had collected evidence that Yoswarit and Prasit verbally attacked the judges and disseminated their phone numbers so that people could call and intimidate them, the source said, while Kokaew allegedly intimidated and forced officers (the court judges) to commit malfeasance.

Each of the court judges can also lodge separate complaints against the accused, along with the Constitution Court office's complaint, the source said.

-- The Nation 2012-07-29

"The acts were aimed at insulting the court and intimidating the judges, the source said, adding that the penalties would be harsher than for simple acts of defamation against "ordinary" people, the source said.

According to Article 198 of the penal code, the penalties would include one to seven years in jail and/or a fine of Bt2,000-Bt14,000."

Surely a misprint. Doesn't sound a very harsh penalty. Does it really say the maximum fine is bt14000?

[MaiChai]

14000 baht was alot of money once. I personally believe Thailand is suffering high inflation, but that is something the government would not want people to make an issue of.

[charmonman]

How long will it take the usual defenders of the reds to come out and offer excuses?

I am still waiting to hear anything that might convince me the Red Shirt leaders are anything but fascist thugs, and that as a whole they are anything but a mob.

Glad to see the court standing up to the usual red bullying tactics.

[warfie]

"give me what I want or I'll stamp my feet and I'll scweem and scweem and scweem until you do!"

[devaram]

Their actions of intimidation are due to the frustration they feel about the lack of freedom of speech in this country and their lack of trust of a court that basically protects the rights of the wealthy and powerful.

[whybother]

Their actions of intimidation are due to the frustration they feel about the lack of freedom of speech in this country and their lack of trust of a court that basically protects the rights of the wealthy and powerful.

What has the intimidation of judges got to do with LM laws? LM is the only main restriction of freedom of speech here.

edit: also defamation action when telling the truth.

Edited July 29, 2012 by whybother

[phiphidon]

Reds, MPs face legal action for 'intimidation'

Chanikarn Poomhiran

The Nation on Sunday

BANGKOK: -- The Constitution Court has lodged another complaint against red-shirt leaders and Pheu Thai MPs for contempt of court and threatening the court judges, a source said yesterday.

Among those named in the complaint are Yoswarit Chooklom (aka Jeng Dokjik) and MPs Kokaew Pikultong and Prasit Chaisisa, said the source, who asked not to be named.

The court office earlier asked the Criminal Court to revoke the bail of red-shirt leaders and Pheu Thai MPs facing terrorism charges.

The secretary-general of the Constitution Court office, Chavana Traimas, ordered officers on Friday to file complaints against people who insulted the judges, including those who burnt mock coffins of judges in front of the court, the source said.

The acts were aimed at insulting the court and intimidating the judges, the source said, adding that the penalties would be harsher than for simple acts of defamation against "ordinary" people, the source said.

According to Article 198 of the penal code, the penalties would include one to seven years in jail and/or a fine of Bt2,000-Bt14,000.

The court office had collected evidence that Yoswarit and Prasit verbally attacked the judges and disseminated their phone numbers so that people could call and intimidate them, the source said, while Kokaew allegedly intimidated and forced officers (the court judges) to commit malfeasance.

Each of the court judges can also lodge separate complaints against the accused, along with the Constitution Court office's complaint, the source said.

-- The Nation 2012-07-29

"The acts were aimed at insulting the court and intimidating the judges, the source said, adding that the penalties would be harsher than for simple acts of defamation against "ordinary" people, the source said.

According to Article 198 of the penal code, the penalties would include one to seven years in jail and/or a fine of Bt2,000-Bt14,000."

Surely a misprint. Doesn't sound a very harsh penalty. Does it really say the maximum fine is bt14000?

What would you rather have, say 10, 15 years and / or 1 million baht for upsetting a judge? - they're not ordinary people you know, these guys are special, above everybody else. You may remember they have a "special" interpretation of "and / or", but I'm sure you've read about that.............

[Noistar]

Reds, MPs face legal action for 'intimidation'

Chanikarn Poomhiran

The Nation on Sunday

BANGKOK: -- The Constitution Court has lodged another complaint against red-shirt leaders and Pheu Thai MPs for contempt of court and threatening the court judges, a source said yesterday.

Among those named in the complaint are Yoswarit Chooklom (aka Jeng Dokjik) and MPs Kokaew Pikultong and Prasit Chaisisa, said the source, who asked not to be named.

The court office earlier asked the Criminal Court to revoke the bail of red-shirt leaders and Pheu Thai MPs facing terrorism charges.

The secretary-general of the Constitution Court office, Chavana Traimas, ordered officers on Friday to file complaints against people who insulted the judges, including those who burnt mock coffins of judges in front of the court, the source said.

The acts were aimed at insulting the court and intimidating the judges, the source said, adding that the penalties would be harsher than for simple acts of defamation against "ordinary" people, the source said.

According to Article 198 of the penal code, the penalties would include one to seven years in jail and/or a fine of Bt2,000-Bt14,000.

The court office had collected evidence that Yoswarit and Prasit verbally attacked the judges and disseminated their phone numbers so that people could call and intimidate them, the source said, while Kokaew allegedly intimidated and forced officers (the court judges) to commit malfeasance.

Each of the court judges can also lodge separate complaints against the accused, along with the Constitution Court office's complaint, the source said.

-- The Nation 2012-07-29

"The acts were aimed at insulting the court and intimidating the judges, the source said, adding that the penalties would be harsher than for simple acts of defamation against "ordinary" people, the source said.

According to Article 198 of the penal code, the penalties would include one to seven years in jail and/or a fine of Bt2,000-Bt14,000."

Surely a misprint. Doesn't sound a very harsh penalty. Does it really say the maximum fine is bt14000?

What would you rather have, say 10, 15 years and / or 1 million baht for upsetting a judge? - they're not ordinary people you know, these guys are special, above everybody else. You may remember they have a "special" interpretation of "and / or", but I'm sure you've read about that.............

Sincerest apologies. Didn't realise you were so touchy today.

I thought I was raising a minor observation, I didn't offer any opinion.

Nice cup of cocoa will calm you down.

Now a couple of deep breaths.

Read a nice book, that can be relaxing.

[Reasonableman]

PMTs perhaps... Yes the fine does seem disproportionate to the potential incarceration. Noticed that, too. But that's the law we all abide by

[ianf]

Their actions of intimidation are due to the frustration they feel about the lack of freedom of speech in this country and their lack of trust of a court that basically protects the rights of the wealthy and powerful.

I think it is very sad that you should go out of your way to excuse their behaviour. When Abhisit recently came here to Chiang Mai to a meeting he was intimidated and threatened throughout his stay. I saw ugly people doing ugly things (I mean Ugly in the sense that their faces were contorted with rage and so on); These are not the actions of people who want Democracy or indeed people who feel frustrated anbout the lack of freedom of speech (etc). These are people who have been manipulated and twisted and, shall I say, led astray (!) by a very perverse leadership who owe more to Mussolini and Hitler than to Gandhi. It is a sad truism that if you feed people with a constant stream of political lies and false ideals then at some point a minority - the ones who want to show the world how purposeful and radical they are - will release their pressure valves and their hate and anger will come steaming out. Sadly, if you take any of these people aside and listen to their ideas, firstly they do not understand democracy, 2nd, they have no central ideology and thirdly they are like Jehovah's Witnesses in that they have a monopoly on truth (their truth) and no amount of discussion or argumentation will change their views. In other words they have adopted this identity as a radical red and it has become their whole raison d'etre. Under different circumstances they could have been commie guerillas, missionaries for some sect, fascist stooges or even stamp collectors.

(Incidentally I would put the Shinawatras amongst the class of wealthy and powerful!)

Edited July 29, 2012 by ianf

[Thai at Heart]

Why does a complaint have to be filled? Isn't this a criminal act?

[whybother]

Why does a complaint have to be filled? Isn't this a criminal act?

From what I've gathered over my time here, it seems that there are few "crimes" that the police can act on without a specific complaint from someone.

[Noistar]

Their actions of intimidation are due to the frustration they feel about the lack of freedom of speech in this country and their lack of trust of a court that basically protects the rights of the wealthy and powerful.

I think it is very sad that you should go out of your way to excuse their behaviour. When Abhisit recently came here to Chiang Mai to a meeting he was intimidated and threatened throughout his stay. I saw ugly people doing ugly things (I mean Ugly in the sense that their faces were contorted with rage and so on); These are not the actions of people who want Democracy or indeed people who feel frustrated anbout the lack of freedom of speech (etc). These are people who have been manipulated and twisted and, shall I say, led astray (!) by a very perverse leadership who owe more to Mussolini and Hitler than to Gandhi. It is a sad truism that if you feed people with a constant stream of political lies and false ideals then at some point a minority - the ones who want to show the world how purposeful and radical they are - will release their pressure valves and their hate and anger will come steaming out. Sadly, if you take any of these people aside and listen to their ideas, firstly they do not understand democracy, 2nd, they have no central ideology and thirdly they are like Jehovah's Witnesses in that they have a monopoly on truth (their truth) and no amount of discussion or argumentation will change their views. In other words they have adopted this identity as a radical red and it has become their whole raison d'etre. Under different circumstances they could have been commie guerillas, missionaries for some sect, fascist stooges or even stamp collectors.

(Incidentally I would put the Shinawatras amongst the class of wealthy and powerful!)

unfortunately the last point about their wealth is easily excused. Their wealth is used to improve the lot of the poor. A 'Mr Donut' run is all that's needed to show they care.

Like most (All?) democracies, the apathetic majority (IMHO) allow excesses to happen.

The mandate that the ruling party have is defended because in order to vote for it, you must be aware of it's content. I concede the point.

However, there was no -which bits are you voting for? It is an all or nothing. No different to other Democracies in the world.

Would be nice to see the ruling party acknowledging that the Constitution is too important to be left to page x of their mandate, which realistically (IMHO) most of their supporters didn't even know was there.

I realise the army did things differently in 2007, and have set a precedent for heavy handed implementations, but things are different now - hey, we have a Democracy

Edited July 29, 2012 by cdnvic

[devaram]

Their actions of intimidation are due to the frustration they feel about the lack of freedom of speech in this country and their lack of trust of a court that basically protects the rights of the wealthy and powerful.

What has the intimidation of judges got to do with LM laws? LM is the only main restriction of freedom of speech here.

edit: also defamation action when telling the truth.

When was the last time you spoke your mind openly in Thailand?

Ha ha! Cannot be done unless youve got a plane ticket leaving in 20 minutes..

[warfie]

Their actions of intimidation are due to the frustration they feel about the lack of freedom of speech in this country and their lack of trust of a court that basically protects the rights of the wealthy and powerful.

What has the intimidation of judges got to do with LM laws? LM is the only main restriction of freedom of speech here.

edit: also defamation action when telling the truth.

(My bold-underline in quoted text) This is something I find particularly bizarre!

Edited July 29, 2012 by metisdead
: Bold underline removed: 30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

[whybother]

Their actions of intimidation are due to the frustration they feel about the lack of freedom of speech in this country and their lack of trust of a court that basically protects the rights of the wealthy and powerful.

What has the intimidation of judges got to do with LM laws? LM is the only main restriction of freedom of speech here.

edit: also defamation action when telling the truth.

When was the last time you spoke your mind openly in Thailand?

Ha ha! Cannot be done unless youve got a plane ticket leaving in 20 minutes..

The only time I don't speak my mind openly is when discussing the monarchy. Anything else is fair game.

[phiphidon]

quote name='ianf' timestamp='1343539378' post='5527908']

Their actions of intimidation are due to the frustration they feel about the lack of freedom of speech in this country and their lack of trust of a court that basically protects the rights of the wealthy and powerful.

I think it is very sad that you should go out of your way to excuse their behaviour. When Abhisit recently came here to Chiang Mai to a meeting he was intimidated and threatened throughout his stay. I saw ugly people doing ugly things (I mean Ugly in the sense that their faces were contorted with rage and so on); These are not the actions of people who want Democracy or indeed people who feel frustrated anbout the lack of freedom of speech (etc). These are people who have been manipulated and twisted and, shall I say, led astray (!) by a very perverse leadership who owe more to Mussolini and Hitler than to Gandhi. It is a sad truism that if you feed people with a constant stream of political lies and false ideals then at some point a minority - the ones who want to show the world how purposeful and radical they are - will release their pressure valves and their hate and anger will come steaming out. Sadly, if you take any of these people aside and listen to their ideas, firstly they do not understand democracy, 2nd, they have no central ideology and thirdly they are like Jehovah's Witnesses in that they have a monopoly on truth (their truth) and no amount of discussion or argumentation will change their views. In other words they have adopted this identity as a radical red and it has become their whole raison d'etre. Under different circumstances they could have been commie guerillas, missionaries for some sect, fascist stooges or even stamp collectors.

(Incidentally I would put the Shinawatras amongst the class of wealthy and powerful!)

[\quote][\quote]

unfortunately the last point about their wealth is easily excused. Their wealth is used to improve the lot of the poor. A 'Mr Donut' run is all that's needed to show they care.

Like most (All?) democracies, the apathetic majority (IMHO) allow excesses to happen.

The mandate that the ruling party have is defended because in order to vote for it, you must be aware of it's content. I concede the point.

However, there was no -which bits are you voting for? It is an all or nothing. No different to other Democracies in the world.

Would be nice to see the ruling party acknowledging that the Constitution is too important to be left to page x of their mandate, which realistically (IMHO) most of their supporters didn't even know was there.

I realise the army did things differently in 2007, and have set a precedent for heavy handed implementations, but things are different now - hey, we have a Democracy

"Ugly People doing Ugly things"

How the press saw the Red Shirts "intimidating and threatening" Abhisit on his recent trip to Chiang Mai

Edited July 29, 2012 by metisdead

[Reasonableman]

This was tired and misleading the first time round, and it hasn't improved with age.

[robertson468]

quote name='ianf' timestamp='1343539378' post='5527908']

Their actions of intimidation are due to the frustration they feel about the lack of freedom of speech in this country and their lack of trust of a court that basically protects the rights of the wealthy and powerful.

I think it is very sad that you should go out of your way to excuse their behaviour. When Abhisit recently came here to Chiang Mai to a meeting he was intimidated and threatened throughout his stay. I saw ugly people doing ugly things (I mean Ugly in the sense that their faces were contorted with rage and so on); These are not the actions of people who want Democracy or indeed people who feel frustrated anbout the lack of freedom of speech (etc). These are people who have been manipulated and twisted and, shall I say, led astray (!) by a very perverse leadership who owe more to Mussolini and Hitler than to Gandhi. It is a sad truism that if you feed people with a constant stream of political lies and false ideals then at some point a minority - the ones who want to show the world how purposeful and radical they are - will release their pressure valves and their hate and anger will come steaming out. Sadly, if you take any of these people aside and listen to their ideas, firstly they do not understand democracy, 2nd, they have no central ideology and thirdly they are like Jehovah's Witnesses in that they have a monopoly on truth (their truth) and no amount of discussion or argumentation will change their views. In other words they have adopted this identity as a radical red and it has become their whole raison d'etre. Under different circumstances they could have been commie guerillas, missionaries for some sect, fascist stooges or even stamp collectors.

(Incidentally I would put the Shinawatras amongst the class of wealthy and powerful!)

[\quote][\quote]

unfortunately the last point about their wealth is easily excused. Their wealth is used to improve the lot of the poor. A 'Mr Donut' run is all that's needed to show they care.

Like most (All?) democracies, the apathetic majority (IMHO) allow excesses to happen.

The mandate that the ruling party have is defended because in order to vote for it, you must be aware of it's content. I concede the point.

However, there was no -which bits are you voting for? It is an all or nothing. No different to other Democracies in the world.

Would be nice to see the ruling party acknowledging that the Constitution is too important to be left to page x of their mandate, which realistically (IMHO) most of their supporters didn't even know was there.

I realise the army did things differently in 2007, and have set a precedent for heavy handed implementations, but things are different now - hey, we have a Democracy

"Ugly People doing Ugly things"

How the press saw the Red Shirts "intimidating and threatening" Abhisit on his recent trip to Chiang Mai

Anyone see Mark in the picture?

[Buchholz]

quote name='ianf' timestamp='1343539378' post='5527908']

Their actions of intimidation are due to the frustration they feel about the lack of freedom of speech in this country and their lack of trust of a court that basically protects the rights of the wealthy and powerful.

I think it is very sad that you should go out of your way to excuse their behaviour. When Abhisit recently came here to Chiang Mai to a meeting he was intimidated and threatened throughout his stay. I saw ugly people doing ugly things (I mean Ugly in the sense that their faces were contorted with rage and so on); These are not the actions of people who want Democracy or indeed people who feel frustrated anbout the lack of freedom of speech (etc). These are people who have been manipulated and twisted and, shall I say, led astray (!) by a very perverse leadership who owe more to Mussolini and Hitler than to Gandhi. It is a sad truism that if you feed people with a constant stream of political lies and false ideals then at some point a minority - the ones who want to show the world how purposeful and radical they are - will release their pressure valves and their hate and anger will come steaming out. Sadly, if you take any of these people aside and listen to their ideas, firstly they do not understand democracy, 2nd, they have no central ideology and thirdly they are like Jehovah's Witnesses in that they have a monopoly on truth (their truth) and no amount of discussion or argumentation will change their views. In other words they have adopted this identity as a radical red and it has become their whole raison d'etre. Under different circumstances they could have been commie guerillas, missionaries for some sect, fascist stooges or even stamp collectors.

(Incidentally I would put the Shinawatras amongst the class of wealthy and powerful!)

[\quote][\quote]

unfortunately the last point about their wealth is easily excused. Their wealth is used to improve the lot of the poor. A 'Mr Donut' run is all that's needed to show they care.

Like most (All?) democracies, the apathetic majority (IMHO) allow excesses to happen.

The mandate that the ruling party have is defended because in order to vote for it, you must be aware of it's content. I concede the point.

However, there was no -which bits are you voting for? It is an all or nothing. No different to other Democracies in the world.

Would be nice to see the ruling party acknowledging that the Constitution is too important to be left to page x of their mandate, which realistically (IMHO) most of their supporters didn't even know was there.

I realise the army did things differently in 2007, and have set a precedent for heavy handed implementations, but things are different now - hey, we have a Democracy

"Ugly People doing Ugly things"

How the press saw the Red Shirts "intimidating and threatening" Abhisit on his recent trip to Chiang Mai

Anyone see Mark in the picture?

Nope. Without any citation or link, the un-sourced photo could have been taken in Surin in September 2008.

.

[Reasonableman]

Read the other newspaper's report and what Abhisit has to say. Up to you whether you believe it is an accurate account, or not. At least he was there.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Reasonableman

[phiphidon]

Nope. Without any citation or link, the un-sourced photo could have been taken in Surin in September 2008.

.

http://www.dailynews.co.th/politics/137039

Happy Now?

[whybother]

Nope. Without any citation or link, the un-sourced photo could have been taken in Surin in September 2008.

.

http://www.dailynews...politics/137039

Happy Now?

No photos of them throwing rocks? Mustn't have happened then.

[phiphidon]

quote name='ianf' timestamp='1343539378' post='5527908']

Their actions of intimidation are due to the frustration they feel about the lack of freedom of speech in this country and their lack of trust of a court that basically protects the rights of the wealthy and powerful.

I think it is very sad that you should go out of your way to excuse their behaviour. When Abhisit recently came here to Chiang Mai to a meeting he was intimidated and threatened throughout his stay. I saw ugly people doing ugly things (I mean Ugly in the sense that their faces were contorted with rage and so on); These are not the actions of people who want Democracy or indeed people who feel frustrated anbout the lack of freedom of speech (etc). These are people who have been manipulated and twisted and, shall I say, led astray (!) by a very perverse leadership who owe more to Mussolini and Hitler than to Gandhi. It is a sad truism that if you feed people with a constant stream of political lies and false ideals then at some point a minority - the ones who want to show the world how purposeful and radical they are - will release their pressure valves and their hate and anger will come steaming out. Sadly, if you take any of these people aside and listen to their ideas, firstly they do not understand democracy, 2nd, they have no central ideology and thirdly they are like Jehovah's Witnesses in that they have a monopoly on truth (their truth) and no amount of discussion or argumentation will change their views. In other words they have adopted this identity as a radical red and it has become their whole raison d'etre. Under different circumstances they could have been commie guerillas, missionaries for some sect, fascist stooges or even stamp collectors.

(Incidentally I would put the Shinawatras amongst the class of wealthy and powerful!)

[\quote][\quote]

unfortunately the last point about their wealth is easily excused. Their wealth is used to improve the lot of the poor. A 'Mr Donut' run is all that's needed to show they care.

Like most (All?) democracies, the apathetic majority (IMHO) allow excesses to happen.

The mandate that the ruling party have is defended because in order to vote for it, you must be aware of it's content. I concede the point.

However, there was no -which bits are you voting for? It is an all or nothing. No different to other Democracies in the world.

Would be nice to see the ruling party acknowledging that the Constitution is too important to be left to page x of their mandate, which realistically (IMHO) most of their supporters didn't even know was there.

I realise the army did things differently in 2007, and have set a precedent for heavy handed implementations, but things are different now - hey, we have a Democracy

"Ugly People doing Ugly things"

How the press saw the Red Shirts "intimidating and threatening" Abhisit on his recent trip to Chiang Mai

Photo outside Chiang Mai hotel where abhisit was speaking provided on this web site ( sorry no gps co ordinates) http://www.dailynews...politics/137039

Heres one of the man talking, same source,

[charmonman]

Their actions of intimidation are due to the frustration they feel about the lack of freedom of speech in this country and their lack of trust of a court that basically protects the rights of the wealthy and powerful.

So, they are so frustrated about their lack of "freedom of speech" that they make veiled death threats to judges - are you serious? By the way, I think Thaksin is quite wealthy and powerful as well - his sister is the PM and his political allies are government ministers. Although I think I know what you are trying to say, it is a pretty weak argument given the current circumstances and what these people are alleged to have done.

Were they frustrated about the lack of freedom of speech when their great leader was ruling the roost? It is a serious case of the pot calling the kettle "black".