34 Year Old Man Executed In Front Of South Pattaya Hotel

[sotsira]

The problem is that most tourists are naive when they first come to Thailand and don't understand the rules of

do's & dont's when interacting with Thais, then there's the language barrier that also could cause offence without

realisation.

And most importantly they don't realise just how many locals have access to guns or any other weapons in their proximity.

[manarak]

Sometimes being a tourist is its own shield.

So you believe a tourist is safe from drug dealers who would have no qualms about executing someone? You say the wrong thing and you could be the body on that wall.

there is no shield - but fortunately, most of the killings occur for a reason.

Tourists and in general foreigners tend not to get too often in the way of the local scum - fellow Thai petty criminals are more likely to interfere with each others' affairs, so they get killed.

Less so farangs.

Yes, but it wouldn't take much. Just a casual swearword or giving one the finger could be enough of a reason for a bullet. Quite often tourists get loudmouthed with locals when drunk (even when not drunk) - totally unaware of who they're upsetting.

Well, let's continue to write about how it is rather than about how little it would take to be worse.

[tropo]

Well, let's continue to write about how it is rather than about how little it would take to be worse.

Well, I should have written "how little it takes", not "how little it would take". This is not how it would be, but how it is.

[2unique]

Sometimes being a tourist is its own shield.

So you believe a tourist is safe from drug dealers who would have no qualms about executing someone? You say the wrong thing and you could be the body on that wall.

No I think a tourist is safer than a buyer, a mule or a runner or someone involved in the business. As for saying the wrong thing that can get you murdered at home by a relative in any country.

I'm not advocating befriending and hanging out with drug dealers or mafia types merely pointing out that you wouldn't necessarily be on their intimidation / make an example of radar particularly just walking down the street.

I believe a tourist should take precautions when visiting any country. does being a loud mouth in a bar and insulting the locals seem like behaviour that entitles one to expect a degree of safety to you?

Edited August 6, 2012 by 2unique

[2unique]

You are really clutching at straws arent you?

It is not my opinion at all. The facts bear out that Thailand and Pattaya are far more dangerous than our home countries.

I dont know why people want to deny the facts. And I would stick by my comment about Thailand under reporting murder rates as opposed to western countries.

Then you're as likely be wrong as right, many countries refuse to report/publish figures at all and note murder isn't the only violent crime so those aren't the facts they are merely a subset of statistics which have led you to a conclusion that may be right or wrong -

Stating that Westerners choosing to live in Pattaya refuse to acknowledge that they are statistically in more danger than their home country and backing this up with figures that on the whole are irrelevant to most Westerners personal status somehow doesn't read correct to me.

Your figures are not based around your statement, per 100,000 capita what % of that is not on locals/natives because that is your statement, living as a native of "my" home country vs living as an alien in Thailand.

Now in case you missed it, I'm not saying this is a safe paradise (see previous statement re tourist destinations) and you're incorrect, I'm saying that sometimes the BBC's travel warnings are blown out of proportion and Thailand doesn't have to be as dangerous for people who act responsibly and don't pee on the electric fence.

[tropo]

I'm not advocating befriending and hanging out with drug dealers or mafia types merely pointing out that you wouldn't necessarily be on their intimidation / make an example of radar particularly just walking down the street.

If they discovered you carry a lot of cash - as many tourists tend to do, I'm sure these lowlife drug dealers will have you on their radar... or do you think drug dealers would not crossover into another line of work?

Tourists in general get little respect from locals. Would you think murdering drug dealers respect them more?

I really don't believe in your "tourists have a shield" theory.

[Tolley]

You are really clutching at straws arent you?

It is not my opinion at all. The facts bear out that Thailand and Pattaya are far more dangerous than our home countries.

I dont know why people want to deny the facts. And I would stick by my comment about Thailand under reporting murder rates as opposed to western countries.

Then you're as likely be wrong as right, many countries refuse to report/publish figures at all and note murder isn't the only violent crime so those aren't the facts they are merely a subset of statistics which have led you to a conclusion that may be right or wrong -

Stating that Westerners choosing to live in Pattaya refuse to acknowledge that they are statistically in more danger than their home country and backing this up with figures that on the whole are irrelevant to most Westerners personal status somehow doesn't read correct to me.

Your figures are not based around your statement, per 100,000 capita what % of that is not on locals/natives because that is your statement, living as a native of "my" home country vs living as an alien in Thailand.

Now in case you missed it, I'm not saying this is a safe paradise (see previous statement re tourist destinations) and you're incorrect, I'm saying that sometimes the BBC's travel warnings are blown out of proportion and Thailand doesn't have to be as dangerous for people who act responsibly and don't pee on the electric fence.

So you are going to look me in the face without blinking and state that the statistics coming from Australia and the UK are just as likely to be as flawed as those from Thailand?

I dont know how long you have been living here but clearly you dont have a clue as to what goes on here. Anything that affects the tourist dollar and that means farang deaths/assaults etc is brushed under the carpet and grossly unreported or deaths are put down to natural causes.

All I have been saying and for some reason you prefer to stick you head in the sand is that Thailand and more specifically Pattaya is a lot more dangerous than the home countries we come from.

[Tchooptip]

And many on this board will say that thailand is no more dangerous than their home country.

And many will be right, depending on what their home country is.

Afghanistan,Iraq,Syria perhaps?

I'm afraid on TV not many posters are Afghans Iraqis or Syrians... sorry if I'm wrong

[2unique]

I'm not advocating befriending and hanging out with drug dealers or mafia types merely pointing out that you wouldn't necessarily be on their intimidation / make an example of radar particularly just walking down the street.

If they discovered you carry a lot of cash - as many tourists tend to do, I'm sure these lowlife drug dealers will have you on their radar... or do you think drug dealers would not crossover into another line of work?

Tourists in general get little respect from locals. Would you think murdering drug dealers respect them more?

I really don't believe in your "tourists have a shield" theory.

actually I said sometimes tourism is it's own shield - please don't imply that I said tourists are shielded 100% of the time - if you're now making up situations where the facts fit your theory as in the tourist is now walking around displaying that they have large amounts of cash i can equally make up the situation where the tourist is an amiable middle aged backpacker then the whole discussion becomes - silly

er sillier (edit)

Edited August 6, 2012 by 2unique

[2unique]

You are really clutching at straws arent you?

It is not my opinion at all. The facts bear out that Thailand and Pattaya are far more dangerous than our home countries.

I dont know why people want to deny the facts. And I would stick by my comment about Thailand under reporting murder rates as opposed to western countries.

Then you're as likely be wrong as right, many countries refuse to report/publish figures at all and note murder isn't the only violent crime so those aren't the facts they are merely a subset of statistics which have led you to a conclusion that may be right or wrong -

Stating that Westerners choosing to live in Pattaya refuse to acknowledge that they are statistically in more danger than their home country and backing this up with figures that on the whole are irrelevant to most Westerners personal status somehow doesn't read correct to me.

Your figures are not based around your statement, per 100,000 capita what % of that is not on locals/natives because that is your statement, living as a native of "my" home country vs living as an alien in Thailand.

Now in case you missed it, I'm not saying this is a safe paradise (see previous statement re tourist destinations) and you're incorrect, I'm saying that sometimes the BBC's travel warnings are blown out of proportion and Thailand doesn't have to be as dangerous for people who act responsibly and don't pee on the electric fence.

So you are going to look me in the face without blinking and state that the statistics coming from Australia and the UK are just as likely to be as flawed as those from Thailand?

I dont know how long you have been living here but clearly you dont have a clue as to what goes on here. Anything that affects the tourist dollar and that means farang deaths/assaults etc is brushed under the carpet and grossly unreported or deaths are put down to natural causes.

All I have been saying and for some reason you prefer to stick you head in the sand is that Thailand and more specifically Pattaya is a lot more dangerous than the home countries we come from.

Or you refuse to accept that US, UK and Aus isn't the whole world and refuse to actually read what I have said... notice what it says about non-locals in the following and then refuse to acknowledge that your statistics aren't the end all and be all

Other country statistics per 100,000 population

Most Dangerous Caribbean nations:

1. Jamaica: 52.1 (Crime rates have decreased nearly 10% from 2009. Also, it is noted that violent crimes rarely occur to visitors)
   
2. Saint Kitts and Nevis: 38.2 (Again, most violent crimes involve locals)
   
3. Trinidad and Tobago: 35.2 (No evidence that tourists are being targeted directly)
   

[Tolley]

And many on this board will say that thailand is no more dangerous than their home country.

And many will be right, depending on what their home country is.

Afghanistan,Iraq,Syria perhaps?

I'm afraid on TV not many posters are Afghans Iraqis or Syrians... sorry if I'm wrong

I guess irony is lost on you.

[Tolley]

You are really clutching at straws arent you?

It is not my opinion at all. The facts bear out that Thailand and Pattaya are far more dangerous than our home countries.

I dont know why people want to deny the facts. And I would stick by my comment about Thailand under reporting murder rates as opposed to western countries.

Then you're as likely be wrong as right, many countries refuse to report/publish figures at all and note murder isn't the only violent crime so those aren't the facts they are merely a subset of statistics which have led you to a conclusion that may be right or wrong -

Stating that Westerners choosing to live in Pattaya refuse to acknowledge that they are statistically in more danger than their home country and backing this up with figures that on the whole are irrelevant to most Westerners personal status somehow doesn't read correct to me.

Your figures are not based around your statement, per 100,000 capita what % of that is not on locals/natives because that is your statement, living as a native of "my" home country vs living as an alien in Thailand.

Now in case you missed it, I'm not saying this is a safe paradise (see previous statement re tourist destinations) and you're incorrect, I'm saying that sometimes the BBC's travel warnings are blown out of proportion and Thailand doesn't have to be as dangerous for people who act responsibly and don't pee on the electric fence.

So you are going to look me in the face without blinking and state that the statistics coming from Australia and the UK are just as likely to be as flawed as those from Thailand?

I dont know how long you have been living here but clearly you dont have a clue as to what goes on here. Anything that affects the tourist dollar and that means farang deaths/assaults etc is brushed under the carpet and grossly unreported or deaths are put down to natural causes.

All I have been saying and for some reason you prefer to stick you head in the sand is that Thailand and more specifically Pattaya is a lot more dangerous than the home countries we come from.

Or you refuse to accept that US, UK and Aus isn't the whole world and refuse to actually read what I have said... notice what it says about non-locals in the following and then refuse to acknowledge that your statistics aren't the end all and be all

Other country statistics per 100,000 population

Most Dangerous Caribbean nations:

1. Jamaica: 52.1 (Crime rates have decreased nearly 10% from 2009. Also, it is noted that violent crimes rarely occur to visitors)
   
2. Saint Kitts and Nevis: 38.2 (Again, most violent crimes involve locals)
   
3. Trinidad and Tobago: 35.2 (No evidence that tourists are being targeted directly)
   

Sorry but they arent my statistics but those collected by the relevant authorities.

As for those places in the WI all that proves is that they are even more dangerous than places like Thailand!

Further to this and more specifically for tourists from the UK and Australia a lot more people die in Thailand per capita more than any other tourist destination and many of these fall into an unexplained death category ie very suspicious death not old age or accident.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Tolley

[2unique]

As for those places in the WI all that proves is that they are even more dangerous than places like Thailand!

and could be some of our home countries?

[Tchooptip]

I'm not advocating befriending and hanging out with drug dealers or mafia types merely pointing out that you wouldn't necessarily be on their intimidation / make an example of radar particularly just walking down the street.

If they discovered you carry a lot of cash - as many tourists tend to do, I'm sure these lowlife drug dealers will have you on their radar... or do you think drug dealers would not crossover into another line of work?

Tourists in general get little respect from locals. Would you think murdering drug dealers respect them more?

I really don't believe in your "tourists have a shield" theory.

I have been in many villages in LOS, each time the villagers I'v met talked to me very friendly and respectfully... of course I never went to Pattaya nor Phuket.

Just for the record, In South of France, French riviera for instance, tourists get very little respect from locals, if they get any

[tropo]

If they discovered you carry a lot of cash - as many tourists tend to do, I'm sure these lowlife drug dealers will have you on their radar... or do you think drug dealers would not crossover into another line of work?

Tourists in general get little respect from locals. Would you think murdering drug dealers respect them more?

I really don't believe in your "tourists have a shield" theory.

actually I said sometimes tourism is it's own shield - please don't imply that I said tourists are shielded 100% of the time - if you're now making up situations where the facts fit your theory as in the tourist is now walking around displaying that they have large amounts of cash i can equally make up the situation where the tourist is an amiable middle aged backpacker then the whole discussion becomes - silly

er sillier (edit)

I'm not making up situations. Tourists do often carry too much cash, and the crooks are well aware of this. I know one guy with a broken back who was knocked off his bike and robbed at gunpoint. Another friend has a permanently messed up knee who's been on crutches all year (and spent nearly a million bath on operations) for getting angry with a motorist.

We are not shielded. We are more exposed. There's nothing silly about this.

Edited August 6, 2012 by tropo

[2unique]

If they discovered you carry a lot of cash - as many tourists tend to do, I'm sure these lowlife drug dealers will have you on their radar... or do you think drug dealers would not crossover into another line of work?

Tourists in general get little respect from locals. Would you think murdering drug dealers respect them more?

I really don't believe in your "tourists have a shield" theory.

actually I said sometimes tourism is it's own shield - please don't imply that I said tourists are shielded 100% of the time - if you're now making up situations where the facts fit your theory as in the tourist is now walking around displaying that they have large amounts of cash i can equally make up the situation where the tourist is an amiable middle aged backpacker then the whole discussion becomes - silly

er sillier (edit)

I'm not making up situations. Tourists do often carry too much cash, and the crooks are well aware of this. I know one guy with a broken back who was knocked off his bike and robbed at gunpoint. Another friend has a permanently messed up knee who's been on crutches all year (and spent nearly a million bath on operations) for getting angry with a motorist.

We are not shielded. We are more exposed. There's nothing silly about this.

I meant in regards to the hypothetical that a random tourist and a local are walking down a street...

yes there are crossover criminals and you'd imagine where you are on the mafia/dealer food chain would dictate the equal opportunities of the crimes you pursue.

[Tchooptip]

If they discovered you carry a lot of cash - as many tourists tend to do, I'm sure these lowlife drug dealers will have you on their radar... or do you think drug dealers would not crossover into another line of work?

Tourists in general get little respect from locals. Would you think murdering drug dealers respect them more?

I really don't believe in your "tourists have a shield" theory.

actually I said sometimes tourism is it's own shield - please don't imply that I said tourists are shielded 100% of the time - if you're now making up situations where the facts fit your theory as in the tourist is now walking around displaying that they have large amounts of cash i can equally make up the situation where the tourist is an amiable middle aged backpacker then the whole discussion becomes - silly

er sillier (edit)

I'm not making up situations. Tourists do often carry too much cash, and the crooks are well aware of this. I know one guy with a broken back who was knocked off his bike and robbed at gunpoint. Another friend has a permanently messed up knee who's been on crutches all year (and spent nearly a million bath on operations) for getting angry with a motorist.

We are not shielded. We are more exposed. There's nothing silly about this.

Not only do they carry too much cash, worst sometimes they like to show it , personally I have a zip in my wallet, when I open it to pay, one can only sees a few bills, if I need more I go to the toilets for instance for putting a few more bills in the visible part, I can do that a few times if needed, not even sure should I lost it, one would find the bills for the zip is under a seam, I used to do that not only in Thailand, for showing cash is dangerous all over the world , I have been living in Antibes on the French Riviera where there is plenty of tourist some of them carry too much cash one can peeks when they buy cigarettes for instance, its invitation to sin!

[tropo]

I meant in regards to the hypothetical that a random tourist and a local are walking down a street...

yes there are crossover criminals and you'd imagine where you are on the mafia/dealer food chain would dictate the equal opportunities of the crimes you pursue.

I would certainly be in more danger walking down the street than a random local.

[Tchooptip]

And many will be right, depending on what their home country is.

Afghanistan,Iraq,Syria perhaps?

I'm afraid on TV not many posters are Afghans Iraqis or Syrians... sorry if I'm wrong

I guess irony is lost on you.

Irony.....humour slightly different

[tropo]

Not only do they carry too much cash, worst sometimes they like to show it , personally I have a zip in my wallet, when I open it to pay, one can only sees a few bills, if I need more I go to the toilets for instance for putting a few more bills in the visible part, I can do that a few times if needed, not even sure should I lost it, one would find the bills for the zip is under a seam, I used to do that not only in Thailand, for showing cash is dangerous all over the world , I have been living in Antibes on the French Riviera where there is plenty of tourist some of them carry too much cash one can peeks when they buy cigarettes for instance, its invitation to sin!

I never carry more than a 3 thousand in my wallet unless I'm coming back from an ATM or out to buy something which costs more.

[Nigel1500]

^^

I think that is the main point here. Whatever the national crime stats, foreigners here are generally safer than in their own country despite any lawlessness that might surround us - perceived or real.

Wrong again. For Brits and Aussies Thailand is far from safe compared to other tourist destinations. In fact the number of deaths is far higher in Thailand for both nationalities compared to any other tourist destinations.

Wrong again.

You're failing to consider the type of Brit and Aussies who come here, why they come here, their age, drinking habits, and social habits compared to, say, tourists who trek through Nepal, go skiing in New Zealand, or visit Japan.

[manarak]

If they discovered you carry a lot of cash - as many tourists tend to do, I'm sure these lowlife drug dealers will have you on their radar... or do you think drug dealers would not crossover into another line of work?

Tourists in general get little respect from locals. Would you think murdering drug dealers respect them more?

I really don't believe in your "tourists have a shield" theory.

actually I said sometimes tourism is it's own shield - please don't imply that I said tourists are shielded 100% of the time - if you're now making up situations where the facts fit your theory as in the tourist is now walking around displaying that they have large amounts of cash i can equally make up the situation where the tourist is an amiable middle aged backpacker then the whole discussion becomes - silly

er sillier (edit)

I'm not making up situations. Tourists do often carry too much cash, and the crooks are well aware of this. I know one guy with a broken back who was knocked off his bike and robbed at gunpoint. Another friend has a permanently messed up knee who's been on crutches all year (and spent nearly a million bath on operations) for getting angry with a motorist.

We are not shielded. We are more exposed. There's nothing silly about this.

Not only do they carry too much cash, worst sometimes they like to show it , personally I have a zip in my wallet, when I open it to pay, one can only sees a few bills, if I need more I go to the toilets for instance for putting a few more bills in the visible part, I can do that a few times if needed, not even sure should I lost it, one would find the bills for the zip is under a seam, I used to do that not only in Thailand, for showing cash is dangerous all over the world , I have been living in Antibes on the French Riviera where there is plenty of tourist some of them carry too much cash one can peeks when they buy cigarettes for instance, its invitation to sin!

Well, I pretend Thailand is much more safe than the French riviera.

[marstons]

In the 10 years i have been here i had two farang friends murdered, had a thai guy next to me in a tourist night club executed with a gun to the head and his brains blown out in front of us all. One occasion had a immigration guy pull a gun on myself and 2 other staff for refusing to give him a drink after we had closed, we forgot to lock the door whilst tidying up. In the UK never saw gun not in the hands of the police, never had a friend murdered. Crime against tourist here is common on a daily bacis by way of theft usually by hookers from the street, hence the need for a Foriegn Volunteer Police force to deal with reports. Also a tourist police force who help tourist victems of crime regularly seen helping victems inWalking street.

Pattaya beach 2am or West End London 2am London every time.

UK murder with fire arms appox year on year 20-25 Thailand 20,000 plus.

UK still one of the few police forces routinly not arrmed.

i know where i consider safer by a long way.

Edited August 6, 2012 by marstons

[Tolley]

^^

I think that is the main point here. Whatever the national crime stats, foreigners here are generally safer than in their own country despite any lawlessness that might surround us - perceived or real.

Wrong again. For Brits and Aussies Thailand is far from safe compared to other tourist destinations. In fact the number of deaths is far higher in Thailand for both nationalities compared to any other tourist destinations.

Wrong again.

You're failing to consider the type of Brit and Aussies who come here, why they come here, their age, drinking habits, and social habits compared to, say, tourists who trek through Nepal, go skiing in New Zealand, or visit Japan.

What type of tourist do you think the 60 year old Perth woman who was murdered in a bag snatch incident in Phuket a couple of weeks ago was? Or perhaps the 72 year old Brit murdered in Sattahip last week?

I suppose all the tourists who are the victims of violent crimes bring it on themselves!

[Tchooptip]

And many on this board will say that thailand is no more dangerous than their home country.

Thailand is safe but not Pattaya and Phuket

I am sure being involved with active drug dealers could be fatal even in Isaan

Yes Yes, but why "even" in Isaan? In Isaan same same

[Tchooptip]

How many Western cities of 500,000 like Pattaya, have tens of thousands of non residents (so let's call them tourist) many middle aged or old men, carrying (sometimes ostensibly) cash money, "roaming"

in the streets, mainly from bar to bar till the end of the night,

(a good % )

...looking for nothing but more and more booze and easy girls, preferably young in spite of their own age, some having forgotten their dignity in home countries 30/40 years younger is no discomfort.

Personally should I be a native, not sure what I'd like to do, but sure the opinion I would have.

Now transpose this scenario to any Western town, you'll see the crime statistics exploding.

Conscious this vision is totally subjective, not sure I will be arguing with opponents LOL

[lizardtongue]

And many on this board will say that thailand is no more dangerous than their home country.

Thailand is safe but not Pattaya and Phuket

You can add Hua Hin and Chiang Mai to those two not forgetting Bangkok!