Treatment Of A Monk

[sabaijai]

Abandon, what was the "big Ajahn Chah meeting up north"?

[Abandon]

Sabaijai - there is an annual shindig at Wat Luang Phor Chah in early Jan .. to commemorate his birth (or is it death, ordination ..?) This year there was an additional special meeting of all the foreign abbots of Wat Pah Pong branch temples. That's about all I know.

[sabaijai]

Sabaijai - there is an annual shindig at Wat Luang Phor Chah in early Jan .. to commemorate his birth (or is it death, ordination ..?) This year there was an additional special meeting of all the foreign abbots of Wat Pah Pong branch temples. That's about all I know.

I don't know this wat - is it new? Or did they rename Wat Nong Pah Pong?

I'd be happy to try to stop in and see the 95-year-old monk if your or TP want to post the name of the wat.

[Abandon]

Umm,

Wat Pah Pong = Wat Nong Pah Pong = Wat Luang Phor Chah

[sabaijai]

Umm,

Wat Pah Pong = Wat Nong Pah Pong = Wat Luang Phor Chah

Ok got it, it was the 'up north' that threw me.

[ThaiPauly]

A foreign monk I know was staying close to the temple concerned and went over to take a look when I forwarded this thread to him. He is on his way back abroad after the big Ajahn Chah meeting up north. We only chatted briefly. He said the whole temple is pretty squalid apart from the new buildings. But also that it was not so bad compared to many temples. The old monk is being fed sufficiently, but says he does not want to eat much anymore due to his health. There are a few people helping out emptying the toilet pot, and he gets to go out every day in the chair.

He also mentioned that the monk expects to pass away soon. I guess at 95 years old that is a safe bet.

Thank You for passing on that information Abandon.

We hope to be going down to see him next week, we want to see if we can get him out for a while to drive around the City, maybee see a few landmarks for the last time that he is familiar with. It may take a bit of armtwisting.

I hope we can make it, but one of my closest freind's Mother passed away suddenly yesterday while she was on holiday up here, and I have offered to help him out with his business as he has an awful lot on his plate with making the arrangements to fly her back home and then the funeral.

I have not a clue how his business works but I have to at least offer.

If this happens I will just have to wait and hope he can hang on an extra couple of weeks, but I feel that we can still make it within his personal "40 Day Window"

I will just have to play it by ear for the next few days.

TP

[leisurely]

Thai Pauly. What you are doing is humbling. We are in Bangkok and if there is anything we can do at all, let me know. We have a large car and could take this man for a drive. Unfortunately, none of us speak thai, but we have a home help who is excellent, she could come along too. I don't want this to sound like a jolly boys for us, merely want to help this individual.

I find the treatment you have described unthinkable. I my life in the UK, I was a nurse at a hospice and since moving to this country have been increasingly horrified at what I read and hear about the care of a dying person.

Good luck.

Leisurely

[ThaiPauly]

Thank you for your comments Leisurely, but what we are doing is hardly humbling. I am sure that many of this sub-forum's readers would be doing the same if they were in my shoes, and I am absolutley positive that many of them have or are already doing their bit, but not neccassarily posting it.

As it happens we are driving to BK today so we will be able to see him over the weekend and hopefully persuade him to come out with us for a while.

Your offer of help is very generous and if we had not been able to get down this weekend I may have taken you up on it , but as it is we should be able to manage OK.

Thanks again for your kind offer and I will keep everyone updated as to what happens when we see him.

TP

[ThaiPauly]

Thank you to the other TV Member who went to see him yesterday. We just missed you by a little.

It meant a lot to him.

We wanted to take him out but he would have none of it as he did not want to iconvienience us.

He had food although he does not want to eat, and generally things seemed better for him. Once more he said he knew we were coming.

He has 4 more of his 40 days left. We will be returning tomorrow to take him a new TV ariel,and say our final farewells.

[jdinasia]

Great thread!

From my dealings with temples all over Thailand I am unsurprised by the situation you describe except for the thievery.

My take on it from a humanist point of view was to be shocked and deeply saddened.

However, My take on the situation in the best possible Buddhist light would be different. I'd want to know if he is content, If he feels grounded in the negative way OR if he feels released in the positive way.

I would hope that the monk after this time is looking forward to his release ... hopefully even his release from samsara.

[ThaiPauly]

We saw him today, probably for the last time.

He smiled a lot so I think he is content, I bought him a new ariel for his TV ,but could not get it to work, but he did not bat an eyelid, just said I should not have wasted my money and smiled!!! He wants to go, He is prepared to go, he is happy to "Let Go"

We have left our phone number in a prominent place is his room so hopefully someone will let us know if he dies.

He gave us both some very old relics which we will cherish, and I am sure that having them with us saved us from a collission with a 16 wheeler this afternoon on our return journey. Maybee not, but he was in our thoughts most of the way back as we drove straight from his Temple in BK back to Chaingmai.

I will post any further developments, and thank you all for your offers of help.

TP

[richb2004]

I know almost nothing about Buddhism, but regardless you are doing a good thing in trying to help of comfort the old monk. However, is it not one of the basic foundations of Buddhism to renounce your worldly possessions? If this is true surely it should be neither here nor there if someone steals the poor guys things.

[redrus]

Inspirational.

Cheers for giving us all the opputunity to follow this ThaiPauly. Please let us know the developments if/when you are hopefully made aware of any.

Love and peace to the old guy too, I think he knows where he's going and I think he's happy with that. Although the thread makes me a little sad, I'm happier knowing fundamentally, he is happy and this what he wants. This, after all, is all about him.

redrus

Ps; thats 2 beers I reckon I owe you in April now TP.

[Misplaced]

Incredible!

I've been around for 42 years, and as of the last 10-15 years, I thought there aren't many truly good hearted people in the world anymore. Atleast its really rare to see these days

TP, you're one of those rare compassionate person left on this earth and seemingly many of the TV members are as well.....Cheers to all with such big heart.

[Carmine6]

We saw him today, probably for the last time.

He smiled a lot so I think he is content, I bought him a new ariel for his TV ,but could not get it to work, but he did not bat an eyelid, just said I should not have wasted my money and smiled!!! He wants to go, He is prepared to go, he is happy to "Let Go"

We have left our phone number in a prominent place is his room so hopefully someone will let us know if he dies.

He gave us both some very old relics which we will cherish, and I am sure that having them with us saved us from a collission with a 16 wheeler this afternoon on our return journey. Maybee not, but he was in our thoughts most of the way back as we drove straight from his Temple in BK back to Chaingmai.

I will post any further developments, and thank you all for your offers of help.

TP

I'm glad you accepted the relics. It just seems they should be somewhere where they have a history and meaning.

I originally thought you should collect them all then contribute them to a temple or museum as a set, with his background and some history on the pieces. But then I have no idea what would be appropriate. Maybe if they're spread among more people each piece will have more meaning and his memory will be bigger. Even if they haven't treated him so well, whoever gets a relic will likely remember who they got it from. I can only hope that years from know the monks and helpers think back on what they're doing now.

[ThaiPauly]

We saw him today, probably for the last time.

He smiled a lot so I think he is content, I bought him a new ariel for his TV ,but could not get it to work, but he did not bat an eyelid, just said I should not have wasted my money and smiled!!! He wants to go, He is prepared to go, he is happy to "Let Go"

We have left our phone number in a prominent place is his room so hopefully someone will let us know if he dies.

He gave us both some very old relics which we will cherish, and I am sure that having them with us saved us from a collission with a 16 wheeler this afternoon on our return journey. Maybee not, but he was in our thoughts most of the way back as we drove straight from his Temple in BK back to Chaingmai.

I will post any further developments, and thank you all for your offers of help.

TP

I'm glad you accepted the relics. It just seems they should be somewhere where they have a history and meaning.

I originally thought you should collect them all then contribute them to a temple or museum as a set, with his background and some history on the pieces. But then I have no idea what would be appropriate. Maybe if they're spread among more people each piece will have more meaning and his memory will be bigger. Even if they haven't treated him so well, whoever gets a relic will likely remember who they got it from. I can only hope that years from know the monks and helpers think back on what they're doing now.

The relics will stay with US, I will not see his memory fade from this earth so quickly. I feel that if they were disbursted his memory and what he gave 70 years for will quickly fade.

Nobody sems to know him like we do so it is appropriate that we keep the memory of him in OUR hearts

I have atttended a funeral today of someone very dear to me, please forgive me if I sound negative, but I am upset with the World right now.

I know about all that can possibly be said here, but I am not posting this from a strong position, more of a "I'll drink to the departed"

Sorry, but I am only Human, like you

TP

[alexth]

It is really is touching, I was convinced that if there are good people in Thailand, those are the monks, I visit the temple almost twice a week and there is this monk in Pattaya, I don't know why, it takes all y thoughts and worries away only by looking into my eyes, I was not aware that even monks can behave like this. ThaiPauly, if you think there is anything me or maybe other members can do for this monk, please don't hesitate to Pm me.

[leisurely]

Anything we can do? As I said before, don't speak Thai but have friends who do and have a big car if anything was needed to be moved or if he would like a trip out somewhere. Sounds a bit facile really doesn't it? Trip out. Sorry, not trying to be. But if there is anything, do let me know.

[ThaiPauly]

I am touched by your offers of help, but honestly there is nothing you can do... He likes his solitude and wants to die alone.

3 weeks ago I purposely DROVE down from Chaingmai to BK just so I could take him on a last tour of the city in which he has spent is whole life, but if you look at my previous post.. he would not have it... Did not want to put me to the trouble.!!!

We have not heard if he has died as of today... we left my Wife's tel number in a prominent position in his room, but have heard nothing.

We go to BK again this coming Friday to see if he is still with us.

Thank you for your offers of support. But honestly there is nothing you can do. but it is appreciated honestly.

TP

[alexth]

Well, Pauly, if there is anyway to contribute, at least financially for the ceremony, just let me know, I am very bussy in this time but would gladly offer to help in one way or another as much as I can, these people diserve help more than many other more...I can't change my mind and speak loud and clear that I think that these are the most pure and innocent people in this country and (as long as it concerns me) they are the only people to make me forget about all the dirt amongst the society...again, anything Pauly, DON'T hesitate...

...and please keep us updated...

Edited February 27, 2006 by alexth

[leisurely]

Me too on the finance front. PM me if you need some cash for the funeral. Not sure if Monks are a special case and the cost is borne by the monastry?

[chownah]

My wife (Thai) says that funeral expenses for a monk are paid by the village.

[ThaiPauly]

My wife (Thai) says that funeral expenses for a monk are paid by the village.

Hi Chonwah,

I beleive you are correct, however his temple has to be one of the poorer ones in the City.

He told us he had a dream that he had the most beautiful funeral.

If we are allowed to help we will if not then we will keep our noses out of it. but if the funeral expenses are paid for by the "village" and here I pressume you mean the surroundig neighbothood then why dont the villagers bother to see him while he is still alive?... if he is still alive

If there is amyone out there that knows if he is or not, could they pm a moderator who can then pm me.

We are going again on friday.. it will be such a shame to go there and find he has passed.

Will keep you posted

thanks again for your kind offers of support

TP

[alexth]

Have a good trip Pauly and please let us know as soon as have something...

[ThaiPauly]

Will do thanx

[ThaiPauly]

We went to see him early this morning , went to his room and he was not there, but his kettle was on!!

We had actually passed him when we came though the Temple gates, he was sitting in his wheelchair waiting for someone to take him to get his wheelchair fixed. He did not say he was expecting us.

He looked a lot perkier than when we last saw him so we left feeling pleased that someone is taking care of him, he did not mention "Death" once so we felt good. His own deadline for his demise has passed so maybee he now has a different oulook?. It is a long time since we have seen him smile, so we felt uplifted by that.

He smiled and waved as we drove away... our telephone number was still prominent in his room....I hope we dont get a call before we return, but if we do, we will always have that memory of his smile.

We only left him 20 minutes ago and the first thing I did before posting this was drop my mobile phone in the toilet, if we had gone there and he had gone then I would really have thought it was not going to be my day. As it happens I realise its not that important, a real pain yes but its not life or death is it?

TP

[deadman]

This is a particularly interesting thread. Perhaps what strikes me most is the spirit of the contributors. The way the initial tensions were eventually reconciled highlights the value of this whole Buddhism sub-thread.

Kamma is a particularly complex phenomena, who's to know why that venerable bhikku has to suffer in such a way. Maybe his suffering has no other purpose than to nurture metta in the hearts of a bunch of motley farangs like us. On a more serious note though, I see a lot of good dhamma, metta, panna and dana in this thread.

[redrus]

I always read with great interest and, now this great thread has taken an un-expected twist. I don't know why but, I thought the Monk would be right. I'm glad he wasn't. (if he is, if you see what I mean)

Cheers ThaiPauly, keep us informed.

redrus

Edited March 7, 2006 by redrus

[ThaiPauly]

My wife is in BK today and she went to see him.... he has a new wheelchair.... and he seems happy(according to my Wife).

maybee all our prayers and good wishes and ALL THE SUPPORT recived on this thread counts for something.

I am not going to post on this thread anymore as it now seems inapropriate.. he IS getting help ( I will say no more about this to protect annonimity).

It just goes to show we CAN make a difference to a person'd life if we choose to.. and the resultant feeling is worth millions of baht.

I will now ask a Moderator to close this thread and I am mindful of all the offers of help and support that have been offered by so many caring folk that have read this thread , which has had well over 1,000 views...... Our Monk is HAPPY even though he faces death.. let that be a private matter between the Bhudda and him.

Thank you everyone that has contributed to this thread. We will of course stay with him... but will no longer post what is happening as things seem much better for him now

TP

[sabaijai]

Closed at OP's request.