Censorship Not The Answer To 'Hate Speech', Scholar Argues

[Lite Beer]

Censorship not the answer to 'hate speech', scholar argues

Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation on Sunday

BANGKOK: -- Short of direct incitement to violence, political hate speech - which has proliferated in Thailand over the past half decade or more, especially on social-networking sites such as Facebook and Twitter - must be tolerated rather than censored, said Charnchai Chaisukkosol, a researcher at Mahidol University's Centre for Peace and Human Rights Studies.

Charnchai presented a paper on the topic of hate speech last month after contemplating the issue for the past two years. He warned that if people succumb to the urge to have the state censor hate speech, it will eventually lead to the development of a "nanny state" that will decide things on behalf of the public and gradually expand curbs on freedom of expression.

"Freedom of speech exists to challenge dogmatic thinking," said Charnchai, adding that unchallenged beliefs often lead to violence.

"Hate speech threatens human liberty, but as John Stuart Mill stated, there exists a dilemma between containing hate speech while protecting free speech. Speech that does harm must definitely be censored," he said, without adding which organ would be authorised to carry out that task.

Charnchai instead proposed four ways of dealing with hate speech. They include introducing counter-speech that renders hate speech ineffectual, and seeking to transform producers of hate speech by engaging them in conversation or dialogue.

"If we encounter such counter-speech often, we won't believe in things [that are being said] so easily."

The dissemination of constructive speech can also counter the destructiveness of hate speech, Charnchai noted.

-- The Nation 2012-08-12

[Reasonableman]

Clearly the prof. is not a member of TV. Perhaps he would care to engage in the political discussions here.... as a mod?

[OzMick]

"..hate speech - which has proliferated in Thailand over the past half decade or more..." is the tool of the subversive agitator. Just pick a difference of a minority - skin colour, ethnicity, religion, wealth - then blame them for anything and everything. Get rid of them and we'll all be better off. Full human rights will be re-instated when we finish killing all those who don't deserve them.

[rubl]

Before going of in any direction, but the 'right' one, have a look at this. It includes many other links as well as pointing to wiki

http://www.answers.c...pic/hate-speech

[edwardandtubs]

JS Mill, a great thinker, had nothing to say about "hate speech", which is a ridiculous expression dreamt up by the American left to censor or demonise anyone with whom they disagree. Thankfully, "hate speech" hysteria is never likely to come to Thailand.

[OzMick]

JS Mill, a great thinker, had nothing to say about "hate speech", which is a ridiculous expression dreamt up by the American left to censor or demonise anyone with whom they disagree. Thankfully, "hate speech" hysteria is never likely to come to Thailand.

Well there was plenty of hate speech here in 2010. If the authorities had a bit less regard for freedom of speech and said <deleted> a bit more forcefully, some people might still be alive. JS Mill, a great thinker, had nothing to say about that either.

[hellodolly]

JS Mill, a great thinker, had nothing to say about "hate speech", which is a ridiculous expression dreamt up by the American left to censor or demonise anyone with whom they disagree. Thankfully, "hate speech" hysteria is never likely to come to Thailand.

Are you blind and deaf That was not said in a loving manner buy the speakers who urged there followers to burn Bangkok down. It was a haterd born out of greed.

[hellodolly]

I have to agree with the article for the most part. Honest debate between the two sides would go a long way towards the understanding of both ends of the pole.

The problem being it would have to be honest when one side said some thing as a fact they would need to back it up.

Not like that clown on Iran who says there were no Jews persecuted and killed by the Nazis.

Hateful speach will always be with us no matter what we do but there are limits. Look back in History Was hitler loving the Jews. All we can do is hoe people will become moire aware of the damage it can cause. It is not helping to build a united society.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Maestro
Deleted part of post that was reply to deleted post.

[otherstuff1957]

Personally I am against censorship entirely, although I realize that there must be some exceptions. Unfortunately, the general global trend seems to be towards more and more monitoring and suppressing of communication, rather than otherwise.

Thailand seems to be following that trend wholeheartedly, with the number of banned websites now up into the 100's of thousands. This is also one way in which PT & the Democrats have almost identical viewpoints and actions... I say almost because PT has been censoring websites at a much higher rate than the Democrats were.

[rubl]

Not too long ago when I was still young and innocent my world was perfect. Either black or white, very easy. Unfortunately like most here I grew up and discovered not only the grey shades but (oh horror) even colours!

There is no absolute 'freedom of speech', there is no absolute 'freedom of action', there is no ... ... There is a lot of un-freedom though. I'm sure a balance will be found as soon as all people grow up and reach a mature stage where any issue can be discussed without the need to distort truth, ridicule others, ec., etc.

I'm no John Lennon, but at times a dreamer for sure

[h90]

JS Mill, a great thinker, had nothing to say about "hate speech", which is a ridiculous expression dreamt up by the American left to censor or demonise anyone with whom they disagree. Thankfully, "hate speech" hysteria is never likely to come to Thailand.

Well there was plenty of hate speech here in 2010. If the authorities had a bit less regard for freedom of speech and said <deleted> a bit more forcefully, some people might still be alive. JS Mill, a great thinker, had nothing to say about that either.

yes than it wouldn't have needed the 2010 uprising because we would already had the totalitarian regime.

Let them speak but not let them build the road blocks....

[h90]

"..hate speech - which has proliferated in Thailand over the past half decade or more..." is the tool of the subversive agitator. Just pick a difference of a minority - skin colour, ethnicity, religion, wealth - then blame them for anything and everything. Get rid of them and we'll all be better off. Full human rights will be re-instated when we finish killing all those who don't deserve them.

I prefer the hate speech than a system were the Gestapo comes can put people in jail who are posting some bad joke or something against the government.

(who decide what a hate speech is? The people in power. Think for Germany or Austria, whenever there is a discussion about the past you are half in the jail already. Even when you say nothing in favor for Nazi, but you know how things can be twisted in court.)

I prefer freedom of speech, of course a good educational system is needed to have that working....but well we are in Thailand.....

[nurofiend]

JS Mill, a great thinker, had nothing to say about "hate speech", which is a ridiculous expression dreamt up by the American left to censor or demonise anyone with whom they disagree. Thankfully, "hate speech" hysteria is never likely to come to Thailand.

Well there was plenty of hate speech here in 2010. If the authorities had a bit less regard for freedom of speech and said <deleted> a bit more forcefully, some people might still be alive. JS Mill, a great thinker, had nothing to say about that either.

and how would you have "said <deleted> a bit more forcefully" than they did in 2010 mick?

[cdnvic]

LM laws are not the topic here. The topic is hate speech.

[rubl]

JS Mill, a great thinker, had nothing to say about "hate speech", which is a ridiculous expression dreamt up by the American left to censor or demonise anyone with whom they disagree. Thankfully, "hate speech" hysteria is never likely to come to Thailand.

Well there was plenty of hate speech here in 2010. If the authorities had a bit less regard for freedom of speech and said <deleted> a bit more forcefully, some people might still be alive. JS Mill, a great thinker, had nothing to say about that either.

and how would you have "said <deleted> a bit more forcefully" than they did in 2010 mick?

Timeline: speeches for 2010 started around February when the verdict on k. Thaksin's billions was still being discussed. Shoutcasts and grenade lobbing (no, not the Olympic variety) started to take their toll. Police standing aside doing nothing, Government patient, finally calling in the army and Boohm a colonel with staff dead, a Japanese reporter, 'peaceful' protesters.

Sure, on topic, "Censorship not the answer to hate speeches'. Now for a few scholars to say just the opposite.

[Thai at Heart]

LM laws are not the topic here. The topic is hate speech.

Not sure if i am allowed to point out the issue????

[cdnvic]

LM laws are not the topic here. The topic is hate speech.

Not sure if i am allowed to point out the issue????

We don't want this turned into a discussion on LM laws. The topic is hate speech, please stick to it.

[TongueThaied]

Clearly the prof. is not a member of TV. Perhaps he would care to engage in the political discussions here.... as a mod?

Why would he want to a member; he opposes censorship of hate speech and TV censors hate speech. To become a member would suggest hypocrisy.

[hellodolly]

JS Mill, a great thinker, had nothing to say about "hate speech", which is a ridiculous expression dreamt up by the American left to censor or demonise anyone with whom they disagree. Thankfully, "hate speech" hysteria is never likely to come to Thailand.

Well there was plenty of hate speech here in 2010. If the authorities had a bit less regard for freedom of speech and said <deleted> a bit more forcefully, some people might still be alive. JS Mill, a great thinker, had nothing to say about that either.

and how would you have "said <deleted> a bit more forcefully" than they did in 2010 mick?

Timeline: speeches for 2010 started around February when the verdict on k. Thaksin's billions was still being discussed. Shoutcasts and grenade lobbing (no, not the Olympic variety) started to take their toll. Police standing aside doing nothing, Government patient, finally calling in the army and Boohm a colonel with staff dead, a Japanese reporter, 'peaceful' protesters.

Sure, on topic, "Censorship not the answer to hate speeches'. Now for a few scholars to say just the opposite.

How do you figure armed protesters occupying the heart of the Thailand business behind wire barricades Peaceful demonstrators. If they had been peaceful they would have had no need of guns or barricades.

Here's a clue for you 2 + 2 =4

You also failed to admit that the scholars offered a alternative.

You red shirts will never change lies. distortions and threats. A fine lot you are. Any more plans for invading hospitals?

[nurofiend]

Well there was plenty of hate speech here in 2010. If the authorities had a bit less regard for freedom of speech and said <deleted> a bit more forcefully, some people might still be alive. JS Mill, a great thinker, had nothing to say about that either.

and how would you have "said <deleted> a bit more forcefully" than they did in 2010 mick?

Timeline: speeches for 2010 started around February when the verdict on k. Thaksin's billions was still being discussed. Shoutcasts and grenade lobbing (no, not the Olympic variety) started to take their toll. Police standing aside doing nothing, Government patient, finally calling in the army and Boohm a colonel with staff dead, a Japanese reporter, 'peaceful' protesters.

Sure, on topic, "Censorship not the answer to hate speeches'. Now for a few scholars to say just the opposite.

How do you figure armed protesters occupying the heart of the Thailand business behind wire barricades Peaceful demonstrators. If they had been peaceful they would have had no need of guns or barricades.

Here's a clue for you 2 + 2 =4

You also failed to admit that the scholars offered a alternative.

You red shirts will never change lies. distortions and threats. A fine lot you are. Any more plans for invading hospitals?

ok, you have to tell me...... what are you talking about?

did you think you were talking to me there by any chance? got a bit mixed up with the quotes maybe?

i have to say i'm in agreement with OP's sentiments re: hate speech.

Edited August 13, 2012 by nurofiend

[OzMick]

JS Mill, a great thinker, had nothing to say about "hate speech", which is a ridiculous expression dreamt up by the American left to censor or demonise anyone with whom they disagree. Thankfully, "hate speech" hysteria is never likely to come to Thailand.

Well there was plenty of hate speech here in 2010. If the authorities had a bit less regard for freedom of speech and said <deleted> a bit more forcefully, some people might still be alive. JS Mill, a great thinker, had nothing to say about that either.

and how would you have "said <deleted> a bit more forcefully" than they did in 2010 mick?

When Arisman made his inflammatory "We'll Burn Bangkok" speech (as an example), he should have arrested on the spot for incitation to commit arson, and force used to do so if required; sending a clear message that the red rabble were not some "special case" above the law. Allowing mercenary agitators to inflame the reds with half-truths and outright lies is one thing, allowing them to incite murder and arson on the "Bangkok elite" who allegedly cause all their economic problems is quite another.

[nurofiend]

JS Mill, a great thinker, had nothing to say about "hate speech", which is a ridiculous expression dreamt up by the American left to censor or demonise anyone with whom they disagree. Thankfully, "hate speech" hysteria is never likely to come to Thailand.

Well there was plenty of hate speech here in 2010. If the authorities had a bit less regard for freedom of speech and said <deleted> a bit more forcefully, some people might still be alive. JS Mill, a great thinker, had nothing to say about that either.

and how would you have "said <deleted> a bit more forcefully" than they did in 2010 mick?

When Arisman made his inflammatory "We'll Burn Bangkok" speech (as an example), he should have arrested on the spot for incitation to commit arson, and force used to do so if required; sending a clear message that the red rabble were not some "special case" above the law. Allowing mercenary agitators to inflame the reds with half-truths and outright lies is one thing, allowing them to incite murder and arson on the "Bangkok elite" who allegedly cause all their economic problems is quite another.

ok you've arrested arisman so far, what next?

[OzMick]

ok you've arrested arisman so far, what next?

Similar actions and logic. BTW as a police function. RTP who refused to act upon clear breeches of the law, or refused to obey legitimate orders, should have been suspended WOP pending disciplinary tribunal. You support the OP - would you have handed out pro-Jewish pamphlets at the Nuremburg rally?

[nurofiend]

ok you've arrested arisman so far, what next?

Similar actions and logic. BTW as a police function. RTP who refused to act upon clear breeches of the law, or refused to obey legitimate orders, should have been suspended WOP pending disciplinary tribunal. You support the OP - would you have handed out pro-Jewish pamphlets at the Nuremburg rally?

haha what??? why on earth are you asking me that?

btw, "similar actions and logic" doesn't cut it for me to how you, ozmick, could have solved it and got everyone to just <deleted> and achieve less deaths in 2010... but i won't keep on asking you about it, so let's leave that one there.

[h90]

JS Mill, a great thinker, had nothing to say about "hate speech", which is a ridiculous expression dreamt up by the American left to censor or demonise anyone with whom they disagree. Thankfully, "hate speech" hysteria is never likely to come to Thailand.

Well there was plenty of hate speech here in 2010. If the authorities had a bit less regard for freedom of speech and said <deleted> a bit more forcefully, some people might still be alive. JS Mill, a great thinker, had nothing to say about that either.

and how would you have "said <deleted> a bit more forcefully" than they did in 2010 mick?

When Arisman made his inflammatory "We'll Burn Bangkok" speech (as an example), he should have arrested on the spot for incitation to commit arson, and force used to do so if required; sending a clear message that the red rabble were not some "special case" above the law. Allowing mercenary agitators to inflame the reds with half-truths and outright lies is one thing, allowing them to incite murder and arson on the "Bangkok elite" who allegedly cause all their economic problems is quite another.

I wouldn't arrest him for that speech.....but why was no one arrest when they closed the streets, made barricades, were armed?

[OzMick]

ok you've arrested arisman so far, what next?

Similar actions and logic. BTW as a police function. RTP who refused to act upon clear breeches of the law, or refused to obey legitimate orders, should have been suspended WOP pending disciplinary tribunal. You support the OP - would you have handed out pro-Jewish pamphlets at the Nuremburg rally?

haha what??? why on earth are you asking me that?

btw, "similar actions and logic" doesn't cut it for me to how you, ozmick, could have solved it and got everyone to just <deleted> and achieve less deaths in 2010... but i won't keep on asking you about it, so let's leave that one there.

"why on earth are you asking me that?" Don't you believe that "counter speech" and "constructive speech" can prevent the evils of hate speech, as stated in the OP you support?

[OzMick]

ok you've arrested arisman so far, what next?

Similar actions and logic. BTW as a police function. RTP who refused to act upon clear breeches of the law, or refused to obey legitimate orders, should have been suspended WOP pending disciplinary tribunal. You support the OP - would you have handed out pro-Jewish pamphlets at the Nuremburg rally?

haha what??? why on earth are you asking me that?

btw, "similar actions and logic" doesn't cut it for me to how you, ozmick, could have solved it and got everyone to just <deleted> and achieve less deaths in 2010... but i won't keep on asking you about it, so let's leave that one there.

Doesn't cut it for you? I'm heartbroken. Simple logic - RTP attend political rallies and when freedom of speech reaches to kill, burn and maim the speaker is arrested, just like I proposed in the example. If so called "guards" object, they get treated like any other armed thug resisting police and obstructing justice.

[nurofiend]

ok you've arrested arisman so far, what next?

Similar actions and logic. BTW as a police function. RTP who refused to act upon clear breeches of the law, or refused to obey legitimate orders, should have been suspended WOP pending disciplinary tribunal. You support the OP - would you have handed out pro-Jewish pamphlets at the Nuremburg rally?

haha what??? why on earth are you asking me that?

btw, "similar actions and logic" doesn't cut it for me to how you, ozmick, could have solved it and got everyone to just <deleted> and achieve less deaths in 2010... but i won't keep on asking you about it, so let's leave that one there.

Doesn't cut it for you? I'm heartbroken. Simple logic - RTP attend political rallies and when freedom of speech reaches to kill, burn and maim the speaker is arrested, just like I proposed in the example. If so called "guards" object, they get treated like any other armed thug resisting police and obstructing justice.

"Simple logic"

simple is right, but i'm glad you've found the solution for 2010.

if only abhisit had called you...

[nurofiend]

ok you've arrested arisman so far, what next?

Similar actions and logic. BTW as a police function. RTP who refused to act upon clear breeches of the law, or refused to obey legitimate orders, should have been suspended WOP pending disciplinary tribunal. You support the OP - would you have handed out pro-Jewish pamphlets at the Nuremburg rally?

haha what??? why on earth are you asking me that?

btw, "similar actions and logic" doesn't cut it for me to how you, ozmick, could have solved it and got everyone to just <deleted> and achieve less deaths in 2010... but i won't keep on asking you about it, so let's leave that one there.

"why on earth are you asking me that?" Don't you believe that "counter speech" and "constructive speech" can prevent the evils of hate speech, as stated in the OP you support?

ha that's a bit of a sweeping question to pull (and summarize) out of the OP,

but since it's so sweeping, let me ask you...

do you believe that "counter speech" and "constructive speech" cannot 'prevent the evils of hate speech'?

my answer to your quesion btw, is sometimes, yes i believe it can... you might find some hints of where this has been proven to have made a big difference when you look at the african american civil rights movement for instance.

i didn't see anything in the OP that says this is the definitive and fool proof solution to hate speech, so if you're attempting to project that viewpoint upon me, then you're wide off the mark.

[OzMick]

"Simple logic"

simple is right, but i'm glad you've found the solution for 2010.

if only abhisit had called you...

Nobody claimed that preventing hate speeches would have solved the problems of 2010, but fewer people inflamed by months of repetitive promises of violence would have helped. "Bring your weapons, bring bottles.....join me in gaol" just doesn't have the same appeal.