Buying Gold In Chiang Mai, Thailand

[hoffer]

yo

today i went shopping for some gold around the chinese market in chiang mai. the shops i went to are all members of the thailand gold association. however when i ask them to test the gold before purchasing it (by way of using an acid test kit) they all told me they wouldn't do it. i did find one shop, out of about 10, who agreed to test it for me.

the question is are the staff just being incredibly stupid (wouldn't be suprising) or is there a giant rip off happening? its supposed to be 96.5% pure. can anyone fill me in?

thanks

gavin

[h90]

For sure the staff is incredible stupid, but that still doesn't answer the second question.

[jacktrip]

most likely did not know how to do it...

most likely don't know the true purity either...

Edited August 13, 2012 by jacktrip

[ripstanley]

I think the best test is to find a gold shop full of Thais buying and seeling

[Semper]

I think the best test is to find a gold shop full of Thais buying and seeling

Ever seen a gold shop full of farangs? (in CM)

[LivinLOS]

Acid test will consume some.. I guess they go by the idea that if you want to burn some, you better buy it.

I would be looking at online storage accounts (segregated allocated bullion not shared) for a lower margin and reliable system.

PM me if you want to know a legit one.

[KRS1]

The average employee wouldnt know how to test gold.

[eyecatcher]

The average employee wouldnt know how to test gold.

i thought you were supposed to bite on it

[eyecatcher]

The gold is much more pure here, thats why its so soft and inpracticle. In the west in the 50s, 60s,70s 22 carat Gold was the norm for the like of wedding rings but it didnt last 20yrs, it wore away and they stopped selling it in such quantities. Then 18 carat became popular but by far the most common was 9 carat, as it is today, but less gold, only about a 1/2 to1/3 of the 22 carat.

24 carat was deemed pure gold so the gold here i guess is 22 carat. expensive and easily spoiled.

I mentioned on here before the gold and diamond traders are Kukrisuwan in chang puak and nimmen road, they are most reputable (chinese background), but for investing in bullion; silver and platinum, do it on line where you can pay for the pleasure of having it bank vaulted in switzerland...OIMHO

[LawrenceChee]

For those that travel back to the west Dubai remains a good spot to buy your gold if you have a stopover on emirates

Pure Swiss gold at a small rat over spot ...for USA citizens lots of options to pick up real bullion online for Swiss gold

[eyecatcher]

For those that travel back to the west Dubai remains a good spot to buy your gold if you have a stopover on emirates

Pure Swiss gold at a small rat over spot ...for USA citizens lots of options to pick up real bullion online for Swiss gold

what is Swiss Gold exactly???? chocolate...........like English Tea no such thing

[hellodolly]

Acid test will consume some.. I guess they go by the idea that if you want to burn some, you better buy it.

I would be looking at online storage accounts (segregated allocated bullion not shared) for a lower margin and reliable system.

PM me if you want to know a legit one.

At the price of gold today I was wondering about that myself. How much gold would it take to test 1 ounce would it take the same amount to test i kilo?

Not sure how many grams in a ounce but at around $1,600 US a ounce not sure if it would be worth the sellers price for testing.

Four tests all coming up good and still no sale might not be a smart thing on their part.

Perhaps buy what some one wants and then test it on the spot. Get it writing first. If needs be have a witness.

Would be nice to hear a little more about the on line trading. I know there is a lot of reputable dealers any suggestions. And will they hold your purchases for you.

Edited August 14, 2012 by hellodolly

[DaBloodyMess]

It is a bit disappointing that they dont do tests that aren't destructive. I would never let some dealer do an acid test on a piece of jewellery or bullion I own.

In the West any serious dealer has an XRF machine which can test the metal in a non invasive way (even through plastic for carded/encapsulated gold). Even without an XRF you can do a specific gravity test before going to the extreme measure of destroying some of the gold with an acid test.

[LawrenceChee]

As a long time investor in gold , physical gold beats any papers or trade Certs.

As for testing gold, just drop yourself the hassle ; any gold bought Swiss made is real and if in doubt go to Bangkok Chinatown and buy from Cheong On the most reputable store run by the Chinese Thai. Their gold sold is as good as its word and more reliable than any bank in Thailand

Otherwise buy them in Singapore or Hong Kong when you are there for Hirt holidays

[Semper]

For those that travel back to the west Dubai remains a good spot to buy your gold if you have a stopover on emirates

Pure Swiss gold at a small rat over spot ...for USA citizens lots of options to pick up real bullion online for Swiss gold

what is Swiss Gold exactly???? chocolate...........like English Tea no such thing

It's the remains from the Nazi Gold.

[DaBloodyMess]

For those that travel back to the west Dubai remains a good spot to buy your gold if you have a stopover on emirates

Pure Swiss gold at a small rat over spot ...for USA citizens lots of options to pick up real bullion online for Swiss gold

what is Swiss Gold exactly???? chocolate...........like English Tea no such thing

It's the remains from the Nazi Gold.

After lots of criticism they 'disposed' of the Nazi gold by minting nearly 30 000 000 of their gold 20 Franc 'Vreneli' coins in the years 45-47, and getting them into circulation in world markets.

If you own any gold 20 Franc coins dated for 1936 (20 000 000 of those minted were re-strikes of the '36 coin) or any dated 1947 (9 200 000 struck with this date).... then you 100% own Nazi gold

I have owned a few of these over the years, and they are lovely coins at .1867 of a troy ounce of gold. Highly recommended.

[Johpa]

or is there a giant rip off happening?

It is only a rip off if you take Thai "baat" gold out of the country and try to sell it. But within the country you can resell it back to the gold shops at the current posted rates.

[eyecatcher]

Acid test will consume some.. I guess they go by the idea that if you want to burn some, you better buy it.

I would be looking at online storage accounts (segregated allocated bullion not shared) for a lower margin and reliable system.

PM me if you want to know a legit one.

At the price of gold today I was wondering about that myself. How much gold would it take to test 1 ounce would it take the same amount to test i kilo?

Not sure how many grams in a ounce but at around $1,600 US a ounce not sure if it would be worth the sellers price for testing.

Four tests all coming up good and still no sale might not be a smart thing on their part.

Perhaps buy what some one wants and then test it on the spot. Get it writing first. If needs be have a witness.

Would be nice to hear a little more about the on line trading. I know there is a lot of reputable dealers any suggestions. And will they hold your purchases for you.

I have been a long term investor in gold by online trading, but being in the uk at the time i used goldmoney www.goldmoney.com they are set up offshore in the channel islands. But also I use www.kitco.com an American base for my charts etc.

as i recall though; like the set up of online trading you have to send copies of residency, and passport details, for fraud purposes..and tax!

You can buy precious metals as physical and delivered to your house if you want, or you can have it bank vaulted in Switz and London and they charge an insurance fee of something like 0.2 gram of gold per month (forget exaclty)

if you get disillusioned with your soaring gold price, or the price is flagging against silver or platinum, you can just exchange it for what is doing better, just like trading stocks.

[LawrenceChee]

Not true India uses the same standard as Thai gold....so there is another avenue to sell if u wish

99.9 is the way to go for investors anything else you are taking a risk.

Looks like lots of amateur investors here ...

[eyecatcher]

Not true India uses the same standard as Thai gold....so there is another avenue to sell if u wish

99.9 is the way to go for investors anything else you are taking a risk.

Looks like lots of amateur investors here ...

The floor is all yours Lawrence....we'll just pack up now and move onto the "tea" threads, we are out of our depth with you it seems, Amateur indeed!

[LawrenceChee]

Unless u are buying tons of gold ...there are lots of people storing gold at home in a safe or dig a hole in your moo baan garden at night

At 1 ounce ..most first time buyers are surprised how small they are compared to Hollywood movie heists and how easy they are to hide at home compare to paying fees for storage ...if you are a perpetual worrier about what happens if then there are no perfect solutions available

Is there a future in gold ? It has moved from $700 to hover at $1600 right now so a good saying in diversifying means you should buy some of it if you have some spare cash.

And u are right eye catcher ;-) experts in every field makes the world interesting...

[elektrified]

I have never been able to get them to test the gold in Thailand. Instead they use a color chart and try to eyeball whether it is 14K, 18K, 22K, etc. Very unreliable method. In Europe they will test the gold with the acid right in front of you, no problem.

[misterme]

I am pretty sure that every shop has a staff on at all times who can test gold and the rock, acid, etc.

At home they use paper but here they use a tablet/stone. Most shops will have only two concentrations, one that tests for 23K Thai Gold, and one for 18K. They will scrape two spots on the rock and add the acids one at a time. If the color dilutes, it hasn't qualified at that level (explaining for those unfamiliar). I sold 22K Saudi/Dubai gold and only got the value for 18K.

Why they won't test is is beyond me. Maybe you're not buying enough of it. Or maybe they think you're not serious about buying at all... I can't say. But, they should all have a 'go to' person in the shop who authorizes sales and purchases.

[muchogra]

or is there a giant rip off happening?

It is only a rip off if you take Thai "baat" gold out of the country and try to sell it. But within the country you can resell it back to the gold shops at the current posted rates.

+1... This is a pragmatic response.

If you plan on buying gold and carry it elsewhere, it's not wise to buy it here. I think few countries make 96.5 gold and it would be subjected to scrutiny when it's being sold. Places like HK and Singapore, they make 99.99 gold which are most likely be accepted as pure gold anywhere.

My wife and I own quite a bit of gold and other precious metals for an ordinary family. We have gold from Thailand when it was B400 (or B800) per baht weigh. We have more 99.99 gold. We have never sold any Some are at home and most are in the vaults which we have to spend money to store them. I sometimes tell my wife that we should sell some to turn ino cash for practical uses, but she always says each piece has sentimental value and antiquity. I'm not one who knows how to appreciate antiquity. For instance, one jade bracelet given to her by her mother is said to be from the Han Dynasty and she fantasizes that it could worth half a mil (USD). For myself I wouldn't buy it for 1k. But all is immaterial for she won't sell it even for a million bucks.

A poster is right; unless you own tons, gold is easy to store. An one-ounce gold coin is (or about) the same size as an American silver eagle shown in the picture here. One thousand gold coins (now at USD1,600) gives you 1.6M and you can store it in a vault easily!

[autan]

i can the remember the name of the shop, but it is on the corner lf tbe night market. i will update this thread when. am backin chiang mai. Anyway, we bought our wedding rings from their and i got them tested in the UK, it turnedout they were c93% pure gold the remaining metal was made up of a mixture silver and palladium. just a warning to those who are thinkingnof buying gold it is very soft and easy scratHed for wedding rings. We estimate that ours will need replacing tin the next 10 years.

Edited August 14, 2012 by autan

[LawrenceChee]

Just a thread line for those here. For those looking for jewellery an beautifully set for weddings and your teeraks fancy, u cannot use pure gold as it is too soft.

As such most of those ornamental gold u find t gold shops around the world are at 96.5% with a mixture of other elements to strengthen it. In Thailand the buying and selling culture is easier here and those who bought gold for you teeraks 5-7 years ago at 9000 - 10000 would have easily made double now at the selling price of about 23000

For investors buying gold as an element, 99.9% is the world trading standard and that remains the best option where one can easily sell if needed for cash conversion worldwide. Swiss Gold for the earlier posting is the world standard when selling worldwide an most easily accepted jut like visa, MasterCard or Amex...it's just a standard of trust

Have fun diversifying your portfolio

[elektrified]

I am pretty sure that every shop has a staff on at all times who can test gold and the rock, acid, etc.

Why they won't test is is beyond me. Maybe you're not buying enough of it. Or maybe they think you're not serious about buying at all... I can't say. But, they should all have a 'go to' person in the shop who authorizes sales and purchases.

Not true. Many shops do not have a staff on hand who will test gold, even if they know how. It is not customary here. Serious buyers like in BKK will go to reputable shops and buy there. No testing.

[jsflynn603]

Hoffer, are you buying jewelry such as a chain, or bars?

If you are buying either--a true gold test is destructive absent XRF machine. Specific gravity alone does not work because an item with a tungsten alloy "core" can be made with identical SG.

An acid test can be done and is simple, but destructive. First the item must be filed/cut or abraded to bypass any plating/coating. Then the item is rubbed on a piece of stone that is rough creating a colored swipe mark (of the gold from the item). Next two known "fingers" of gold attached to a bronze holder are swiped next to the item. In the case of 23.5 karat gold, one would use a swipe of 99.99 gold and on the other side, a swipe of 23kt gold. Then conc (concentrated) nitric acid is picked up on a glass knob type dropper, and a few grains of ordinary table salt are added to the droplet now sitting on the testing stone. The tip is used to crush the grains and dissolve the salt into the Nitric acid. The salt disassociates into H+ and Cl(-) ions, the "chloryl" ions are insanely reactive, the mixture then becomes Aqua Regia which is a combination of Nitric and Hydrochloric acid which DISSOLVES pure gold.

The mixed droplet is then swiped across the the three marks covering part of the marks. The tester then waits, in a few minutes the 23kt swipe disappears where acid is across it, a few minutes later, thte 23 1/2 (standard thai gold) would dissapear and a few minutes later the pure gold disappears. Thus proving that the identity of the piece being tested has a purity between 23 and 24kt gold.

But this test is destructive and most would not do it to a finished item or a 1 ounce bar because they'd have to file or cut the edge.

Interestingly in Thailand not long ago a fair amount of jewelry was sold that was made of an alloy of the correct SG that was apparantly tungsten alloy that was gold plated. That's a scary thought.

As far as Thai jewelry being a rip-off. I do not agree. The items that I bought cost less then 10% above the contained gold value and for a finished item that is tremendous. In America an item that has $1000 of gold in it, be it 14kt, or 18kt would usually sell for $3000 (or 300%) more than the contained gold. I consider buying Thai finished gold jewelry to be amongst the best deals on the planet, and from what I've seen the mostly Chinese-Thai vendors up along the Ping River in Chiang Mai are always honest about the metal content (do not trust their scales though, but I have seen their scales weigh over and under actual weight... ) The Baht concept is simple: The gold is not quite 23 1/2 karat it is .965 gold, and 1 Baht is equal to 15.244 grams in raw bullion form or 15.16 grams when it sold as jewellery.

True, if you are buying with intent to resell as scrap buying finished gold jewelry is not worth it, but if so, just buy ingots that are accepted and identifiable in the culture where you intend to sell it. Perth Mint, the Swiss manufactures (Hereaus sp?) are pretty much accepted in 1 ounce bars worldwide, or the Eagle/Maple Leaf/Buffalo/Philharmonic coins.

Edited August 15, 2012 by jsflynn603

[cmbe]

This information is in Thai, you can use google translate . http://www.goldtraders.or.th/ArticleView.aspx?gp=1&id=8

[LivinLOS]

The gold is much more pure here, thats why its so soft and inpracticle. In the west in the 50s, 60s,70s 22 carat Gold was the norm for the like of wedding rings but it didnt last 20yrs, it wore away and they stopped selling it in such quantities. Then 18 carat became popular but by far the most common was 9 carat, as it is today, but less gold, only about a 1/2 to1/3 of the 22 carat.

24 carat was deemed pure gold so the gold here i guess is 22 carat. expensive and easily spoiled.

But hes talking about .999 fine bullion bars not 22 / 23 carat jewellery