Norwegian Man, Thai Woman Killed In Chon Buri Road Accident

DrTuner · August 16, 2012

If I was a betting man, I'd put a 95% probability on the following: Norwegian got utterly drunk in walking street, went into a bar and picked up the youngling in the red dress. In his drunken state he then proceeded to gun the PCX at top speed in order to get home with the catch of the day, judging his speed and the corner wrong. Rest is history.

What I didn't get is how he managed to get gutted,did he drive up the ramp of #7, got flung against the railing and over to Sukhumvit below or what ?

Nisa · August 16, 2012

Obviously i read the reports that came in and there is no proof that he was driving ( relased anyway) and no proof that she was his rental for the night ( released anyway). I agree.. no crash helmets in pics and am sure more will come out of this.. what? neither I nor anyone else knows right now.

As I stated earlier - some people will disregard facts no matter what they may be. Witnesses clearly have stated he was driving and the manner in which he was driving but I guess that is not proof.

not trying to burst your bubble or anything, but knowing that road as you may or may not do, here are some facts..

there is no pedestrian area close it it

no vehicles stopped at the scene, which is why the police cant be sure if another vehicle was involved

there were no witnesses

at 4.30 in the monring that area of Pattaya is void of any people

so; all you have is guesswork which may, or nor, be correct .. it is still guesswork.

<deleted>.. give the man a break until the FACTS are released. or give a dog a bad name and hang him a' la aesop.

your call

You aren't for real are you?

From the Nation

:

Witnesses told police

that the tourist appeared drunk and was speeding up the motorcycle. He lost control and crashed into an edge of the bridge, causing his body and the pillion rider woman to be hurled down from the bridge.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Norwegian-man-Thai-woman-killed-in-Chon-Buri-road--30188249.html

From Pattaya News

:

Witnesses confirmed

the bike approached the overpass at a high rate of speed and claimed this was a single-vehicle road crash. Police also heard that the bike was being driven erratically and believe the driver, Mr. Lundsvoll, may have been intoxicated, although Police are waiting for the results of a post mortem examination which will include a toxicology report.

http://www.pattayaone.net/pattaya-news/60542/51-year-norwegian-16-year-thai-girl-killed-central-pattaya-road-crash/

From ScandAsia

:

The

eyewitnesses reported

that the Norwegian man was riding a motorbike at a very high speed as if he was drunk. At the turning curve, he lost control and hit the edge of the bridge. The Norwegian man then flew off the bike and out of the bridge and landed on the road under. The Thai girl flew off the bike too and hit the cement at the bridge.

http://www.scandasia.com/viewNews.php?coun_code=no&news_id=11011

TommyDee · August 16, 2012

Obviously i read the reports that came in and there is no proof that he was driving ( relased anyway) and no proof that she was his rental for the night ( released anyway). I agree.. no crash helmets in pics and am sure more will come out of this.. what? neither I nor anyone else knows right now.

As I stated earlier - some people will disregard facts no matter what they may be. Witnesses clearly have stated he was driving and the manner in which he was driving but I guess that is not proof.

not trying to burst your bubble or anything, but knowing that road as you may or may not do, here are some facts..

there is no pedestrian area close it it

no vehicles stopped at the scene, which is why the police cant be sure if another vehicle was involved

there were no witnesses

at 4.30 in the monring that area of Pattaya is void of any people

so; all you have is guesswork which may, or nor, be correct .. it is still guesswork.

<deleted>.. give the man a break until the FACTS are released. or give a dog a bad name and hang him a' la aesop.

your call

You aren't for real are you?

From the Nation
:
Witnesses told police
that the tourist appeared drunk and was speeding up the motorcycle. He lost control and crashed into an edge of the bridge, causing his body and the pillion rider woman to be hurled down from the bridge.
http://www.nationmul...--30188249.html

From Pattaya News
:
Witnesses confirmed
the bike approached the overpass at a high rate of speed and claimed this was a single-vehicle road crash. Police also heard that the bike was being driven erratically and believe the driver, Mr. Lundsvoll, may have been intoxicated, although Police are waiting for the results of a post mortem examination which will include a toxicology report.
http://www.pattayaon...aya-road-crash/

From ScandAsia
:
The
eyewitnesses reported
that the Norwegian man was riding a motorbike at a very high speed as if he was drunk. At the turning curve, he lost control and hit the edge of the bridge. The Norwegian man then flew off the bike and out of the bridge and landed on the road under. The Thai girl flew off the bike too and hit the cement at the bridge.
http://www.scandasia...o&news_id=11011

OK.. you are right.. and congrats on that. an eye witness on an overpass on an empty road at 4.30 in the morning, no houses or home anywhere near, no passing vehicles.. THINK MAN.. where was the eye witness?

I am not questioning the man's state.. I am questioning if we or anyone actually saw it or knows he was drunk, or that the girl was as u suppose or not.

I drive that flyover every day, sometimes twice. its a frickin oil slick sometimes, at night its not lit, and there is NO WAY A WITNESS SAW ANYTHING..as it is also clear there was no passing vehicle, allegedly. There is NO WAY that anyone could see the accident happenign unless they were in a vehicle.. NO PEDESTRIAN CAN SEE THERE

i dont know how to make it clearer.. even with a map and compasses

TommyDee · August 16, 2012

polite version of the above...

the road at that time is usually deserted, I mean absolutely empty. the flyover is not visible from any building or pathway at all, its in the middle of no where with not a single building having a view. there is no path or pedestrian way anywhere near or within sight of the accident. its a one way raised slip road, no oncoming traffic could see the place.. in other words the only people who could see it were the two, now dea, and another vehicle close by. police dont know if another vehicle was involved.. from that statement ( as opposed to guesswork in the original reports SENT to the media) you can assume fairly that there were no other vehicle sin the vicinity.

Now was he drunk? who knows.. no one, absolutely no one.. knows.. was he driving like an idiot?.. no one knows .. was another vehicle involved.. no one knows. and the paranio created by ONE report used as a basis for a report by numerous news outlets has allowed conjecture into the equasion.. which you choose to accpet as fact..

I think I am pretty real.. but then thats just my OPINION

Nisa · August 16, 2012

Obviously i read the reports that came in and there is no proof that he was driving ( relased anyway) and no proof that she was his rental for the night ( released anyway). I agree.. no crash helmets in pics and am sure more will come out of this.. what? neither I nor anyone else knows right now.

not trying to burst your bubble or anything, but knowing that road as you may or may not do, here are some facts..

there is no pedestrian area close it it

no vehicles stopped at the scene, which is why the police cant be sure if another vehicle was involved

there were no witnesses

at 4.30 in the monring that area of Pattaya is void of any people

so; all you have is guesswork which may, or nor, be correct .. it is still guesswork.

<deleted>.. give the man a break until the FACTS are released. or give a dog a bad name and hang him a' la aesop.

your call

You aren't for real are you?

From the Nation
:
Witnesses told police
that the tourist appeared drunk and was speeding up the motorcycle. He lost control and crashed into an edge of the bridge, causing his body and the pillion rider woman to be hurled down from the bridge.
http://www.nationmul...--30188249.html

From Pattaya News
:
Witnesses confirmed
the bike approached the overpass at a high rate of speed and claimed this was a single-vehicle road crash. Police also heard that the bike was being driven erratically and believe the driver, Mr. Lundsvoll, may have been intoxicated, although Police are waiting for the results of a post mortem examination which will include a toxicology report.
http://www.pattayaon...aya-road-crash/

From ScandAsia
:
The
eyewitnesses reported
that the Norwegian man was riding a motorbike at a very high speed as if he was drunk. At the turning curve, he lost control and hit the edge of the bridge. The Norwegian man then flew off the bike and out of the bridge and landed on the road under. The Thai girl flew off the bike too and hit the cement at the bridge.
http://www.scandasia...o&news_id=11011

OK.. you are right.. and congrats on that. an eye witness on an overpass on an empty road at 4.30 in the morning, no houses or home anywhere near, no passing vehicles.. THINK MAN.. where was the eye witness?

I am not questioning the man's state.. I am questioning if we or anyone actually saw it or knows he was drunk, or that the girl was as u suppose or not.

I drive that flyover every day, sometimes twice. its a frickin oil slick sometimes, at night its not lit, and there is NO WAY A WITNESS SAW ANYTHING..as it is also clear there was no passing vehicle, allegedly. There is NO WAY that anyone could see the accident happenign unless they were in a vehicle.. NO PEDESTRIAN CAN SEE THERE

i dont know how to make it clearer.. even with a map and compasses

Again I have to ask if you are serious.

Could it be there was another vehicle (or multiple vehicles) on the road who saw this guy driving recklessly? Could it be also that some witnesses saw him driving before he got on the bridge (as stated)? Instead of trying to figure out ways to illogically disbelieve reports, take a breath and think about things including the fact there were multiple witnesses. And I am not going to play the game of changing the subject as it is clear it was about if he was driving (see quotes above) and not if he was drunk.

Just because you read an early report doesn't mean you should disregard further information made available including this being a single vehicle accident.

Let if go and accept it, he was driving. If you cannot accept that then why not just question if the accident happened at all.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Nisa

maidu · August 16, 2012

Why is it, that a curve on an overpass has witnesses at the wee hours of the morning, whereas in another scenario, over a dozen witnesses can't recall anything about what happened in a room where they were all closely watching an argument. I'm referring to the cop being shot in a bar a few years ago by the son of a prominent and rich politician.

Also; the tragic road death of the two in the OP: No one has mentioned the possibility of murder. Maybe it's a stretch, but maybe not. People get drunk, people get jealous, some even go overboard with their vindictiveness. Here's a scenario that's no less nor more believable than any other scenario which is painted on to the street deaths: Old man finds young pretty girl for hire in bar. Another man is jealous. The old man and girl leave, the jealous/angry man plans revenge. Easy as pie to do, and such happenings are not rare.

Ten years ago, an older farang (whom I knew) got in to a taxi late at night with a young bar girl. Before the taxi drove off, a Thai man walked up and shot the farang point blank - bullet went in near the shoulder and out the back. Hospital stay, but not fatal. Zero repercussions for the shooter because, after all, this is Thailand.

TommyDee · August 16, 2012

you are now at the point of ridicule, and i appreciate its difficult to turn back and keep face... lets see

Nisa · August 16, 2012

see:

Edited August 16, 2012 by Nisa

KeyserSoze01 · August 16, 2012

<deleted>, 14 pages of arguing over the same old chestnut. Don't you folks ever get tired of covering the same ground over and over and over again?

stefb1964 · August 16, 2012

Apart of all the guessing I'm reading here on and on, as a father I wonder why a 16 year old girl is sitting at the back of motorcycle of a 52 year old man at 04:30 am..

Nevertheless, my condolences to the families of the deceased.

Edited August 16, 2012 by stefb1964

sysardman · August 16, 2012

Why is it, that a curve on an overpass has witnesses at the wee hours of the morning, whereas in another scenario, over a dozen witnesses can't recall anything about what happened in a room where they were all closely watching an argument. I'm referring to the cop being shot in a bar a few years ago by the son of a prominent and rich politician.

Also; the tragic road death of the two in the OP: No one has mentioned the possibility of murder. Maybe it's a stretch, but maybe not. People get drunk, people get jealous, some even go overboard with their vindictiveness. Here's a scenario that's no less nor more believable than any other scenario which is painted on to the street deaths: Old man finds young pretty girl for hire in bar. Another man is jealous. The old man and girl leave, the jealous/angry man plans revenge. Easy as pie to do, and such happenings are not rare.

Ten years ago, an older farang (whom I knew) got in to a taxi late at night with a young bar girl. Before the taxi drove off, a Thai man walked up and shot the farang point blank - bullet went in near the shoulder and out the back. Hospital stay, but not fatal. Zero repercussions for the shooter because, after all, this is Thailand.

I'm waiting for the book and the movie

TommyDee · August 16, 2012

yes, I saw the video before it was pixilated, all very gory. thank you.. and pity both of them.

I am sorry. I think it will be interesting to wait and see the reports that will no doubt be circulated later. you will, however, note that the location is as I describe and ask yourself the question.. " if the police are not sure if another vehicle was involved.. then how can there have been eye witnesses?"

It annoys me, slightly, ( not you, this is not as dig at you) that the police videos of the scene are passed to the media with a thai oral or written report which is based, partially, on supposition. that report is then translated and certain key points stand out in the translation. those being.. foreigner.. motor cycle, 4 in the morning , young girl, both dead and.. the impossible witnesses ( I am not sure where they came from).

from that each media source creates a story to headline the news. at that time there is no definite proof he was drunk, or speeding ( on a scooter not a motorbike) no condition report (it pissed down that night) no road condition report. I am NOT having a go at you.. but if you had any idea how many "reports" turn out to be wrong in one month you would be as unwilling to swallow what is spoon fed as I am.

Only this week we had a senator who stopped at a roadside restaurant to eat on his way to bangkok and took out a gun from his car to accidentally shoot his secretary, who later became his cousin, who later still became his wife, who even later turned out to have been at a family celebration of mothers day, .. in a different city.

the only fact in the whole story was that.. she was shot, and he did it.. accident or not. the rest.. was total guesswork arrived at at various stages by God knows who.

from that one example you might begin to understand that until the "real" report come out ( and they may well say the same as you think) we should not automatically assume that what you read here, there or on youtube.. is 100%

I have the utmost respect for the guys who put farang news together, its a tedious task and based on what ever is supplied by the officilas to the media suppliers which, in turn, is based on what ever was the word at the moment of recording. its then translated in numerous different ways to give u what you read. its a thankless task when it comes out wrong and a thankless task when ti comes out right. I know those who have done it for years and will grudgingly confirm what I say. and its not that much different in many places in the world.

today a man climbed up an electric pylon to kill himslef because his wife liked to travel. actually he did it because, in part, his wife liked to go out on occasions with her friends. see what is lost just in translation. ( and I am the junior in this game BTW)

Bagwan · August 16, 2012

As adults, we have a duty to protect children not take advantage of them particularly when they have been placed in compromising situations by society, their parents or just their bad judgment.

No one cares about the countless underage girls working in the bars and karaoke bars in Pattaya until one of them gets killed. Then suddenly the children need to be protected.

Thats an incorrect comment there are several societies working against this type of explloitation

With one headed up by a woman for her own glorification. She pops up from time to time when in need of a few column inches in one of the rags.

Nisa · August 16, 2012

yes, I saw the video before it was pixilated, all very gory. thank you.. and pity both of them.

I am sorry. I think it will be interesting to wait and see the reports that will no doubt be circulated later. you will, however, note that the location is as I describe and ask yourself the question.. " if the police are not sure if another vehicle was involved.. then how can there have been eye witnesses?"

It annoys me, slightly, ( not you, this is not as dig at you) that the police videos of the scene are passed to the media with a thai oral or written report which is based, partially, on supposition. that report is then translated and certain key points stand out in the translation. those being.. foreigner.. motor cycle, 4 in the morning , young girl, both dead and.. the impossible witnesses ( I am not sure where they came from).

from that each media source creates a story to headline the news. at that time there is no definite proof he was drunk, or speeding ( on a scooter not a motorbike) no condition report (it pissed down that night) no road condition report. I am NOT having a go at you.. but if you had any idea how many "reports" turn out to be wrong in one month you would be as unwilling to swallow what is spoon fed as I am.

Only this week we had a senator who stopped at a roadside restaurant to eat on his way to bangkok and took out a gun from his car to accidentally shoot his secretary, who later became his cousin, who later still became his wife, who even later turned out to have been at a family celebration of mothers day, .. in a different city.

the only fact in the whole story was that.. she was shot, and he did it.. accident or not. the rest.. was total guesswork arrived at at various stages by God knows who.

from that one example you might begin to understand that until the "real" report come out ( and they may well say the same as you think) we should not automatically assume that what you read here, there or on youtube.. is 100%

I have the utmost respect for the guys who put farang news together, its a tedious task and based on what ever is supplied by the officilas to the media suppliers which, in turn, is based on what ever was the word at the moment of recording. its then translated in numerous different ways to give u what you read. its a thankless task when it comes out wrong and a thankless task when ti comes out right. I know those who have done it for years and will grudgingly confirm what I say. and its not that much different in many places in the world.

today a man climbed up an electric pylon to kill himslef because his wife liked to travel. actually he did it because, in part, his wife liked to go out on occasions with her friends. see what is lost just in translation. ( and I am the junior in this game BTW)

You really have a very strange take. You continue to harp about an original report saying it was unsure if it was a single vehicle crash and then ignore all reports following detailing how the accident occurred and that it indeed was a single vehicle accident. With this logic, only 1-tower was taken down on 9-11.

And for reasons unknown to me and any known logic, you keep wanting to pretend the police and various media groups are lying about witnesses because the accident happened on a spot in the roadway that cannot be seen by pedestrians or from buildings. Yet, you fail to consider other vehicles on the road and the fact there are witness accounts of him driving recklessly before he got on the bridge. It is EXTREMELY common for speeders to pass a car and then for the car to come upon them crashed minutes later. Clearly there would be no mistaken a 52 year old farang man sitting on the back of a motorbike as opposed to a 16 year old girl in a red dress with flowing black hair.

Get over it, he was driving. Just because you know the area well means absolutely nothing when it comes to what witnesses saw. For God's sake it is a roadway traveled by numerous other vehicles.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Nisa

TommyDee · August 16, 2012

etc etc

Get over it, he was driving. Just because you know the area well means absolutely nothing when it comes to what witnesses saw. For God's sake it is a roadway traveled by numerous other vehicles.

No worries, I have not been rude to you, in fact the opposite, we shall see... meanwhile.. you can be right.

good night

Nisa · August 16, 2012

etc etc

Get over it, he was driving. Just because you know the area well means absolutely nothing when it comes to what witnesses saw. For God's sake it is a roadway traveled by numerous other vehicles.

No worries, I have not been rude to you, in fact the opposite, we shall see... meanwhile.. you can be right.

good night

If my bluntness or sarcasm was rude, I apologize as that was not my intention. I just find the notion of seriously questioning if he was the driver far fetched and used these methods to convey that. If he was drunk, that certainly is debatable and police have stated as much but I highly doubt we will hear any further update to this story unless it appears in his hometown paper or some surprising fact comes out like he suffered a diabetic condition but even then I am skeptical if we will hear more.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Nisa

sysardman · August 16, 2012

As adults, we have a duty to protect children not take advantage of them particularly when they have been placed in compromising situations by society, their parents or just their bad judgment.

No one cares about the countless underage girls working in the bars and karaoke bars in Pattaya until one of them gets killed. Then suddenly the children need to be protected.

Thats an incorrect comment there are several societies working against this type of explloitation

With one headed up by a woman for her own glorification. She pops up from time to time when in need of a few column inches in one of the rags.

I'm sure a few TV members would give her a few 'column inches'

sysardman · August 16, 2012

Apart of all the guessing I'm reading here on and on, as a father I wonder why a 16 year old girl is sitting at the back of motorcycle of a 52 year old man at 04:30 am..

See the preceeding 340 posts

maidu · August 16, 2012

Witnesses and detective work involved with Thai investigations are often unreliable, or worse (contrived, facts omitted, etc).

Personally, I doubt the truth will blaze forth on this sad scenario. If it's easiest to believe that the old guy was drunk and driving too fast and crashed, and both unlucky souls spilled over the edge, then go ahead and believe that. If, on the other hand, the motorbike was forced off the road, either unintentionally or purposefully, we'll never know, unless the mystery party decides to 'come clean' - which couldn't happen in Thailand.

sysardman · August 16, 2012

If he got caught driving under the influence in his home country with a minor in the car. What would happen to him?

Where I come from, having a 16 year old girl in the car is not an offense. Why should it be? Do you have sex with everybody who are passengers in your car? I've been stopped by the police in this country with the car full of girls, many of them under 18. Never had a problem with that, except one policeman who insisted on going with us to wherever we were headed. Just envious

Can't blame him.

By the look of your avatar, you fit the bill perfectly.

Your avatar looks like that Vietnamese fella - Ho Kii Men

HereIAm · August 16, 2012

yes, I saw the video before it was pixilated, all very gory. thank you.. and pity both of them.

I am sorry. I think it will be interesting to wait and see the reports that will no doubt be circulated later. you will, however, note that the location is as I describe and ask yourself the question.. " if the police are not sure if another vehicle was involved.. then how can there have been eye witnesses?"

It annoys me, slightly, ( not you, this is not as dig at you) that the police videos of the scene are passed to the media with a thai oral or written report which is based, partially, on supposition. that report is then translated and certain key points stand out in the translation. those being.. foreigner.. motor cycle, 4 in the morning , young girl, both dead and.. the impossible witnesses ( I am not sure where they came from).

from that each media source creates a story to headline the news. at that time there is no definite proof he was drunk, or speeding ( on a scooter not a motorbike) no condition report (it pissed down that night) no road condition report. I am NOT having a go at you.. but if you had any idea how many "reports" turn out to be wrong in one month you would be as unwilling to swallow what is spoon fed as I am.

Only this week we had a senator who stopped at a roadside restaurant to eat on his way to bangkok and took out a gun from his car to accidentally shoot his secretary, who later became his cousin, who later still became his wife, who even later turned out to have been at a family celebration of mothers day, .. in a different city.

the only fact in the whole story was that.. she was shot, and he did it.. accident or not. the rest.. was total guesswork arrived at at various stages by God knows who.

from that one example you might begin to understand that until the "real" report come out ( and they may well say the same as you think) we should not automatically assume that what you read here, there or on youtube.. is 100%

I have the utmost respect for the guys who put farang news together, its a tedious task and based on what ever is supplied by the officilas to the media suppliers which, in turn, is based on what ever was the word at the moment of recording. its then translated in numerous different ways to give u what you read. its a thankless task when it comes out wrong and a thankless task when ti comes out right. I know those who have done it for years and will grudgingly confirm what I say. and its not that much different in many places in the world.

today a man climbed up an electric pylon to kill himslef because his wife liked to travel. actually he did it because, in part, his wife liked to go out on occasions with her friends. see what is lost just in translation. ( and I am the junior in this game BTW)

You really have a very strange take. You continue to harp about an original report saying it was unsure if it was a single vehicle crash and then ignore all reports following detailing how the accident occurred and that it indeed was a single vehicle accident. With this logic, only 1-tower was taken down on 9-11.

And for reasons unknown to me and any known logic, you keep wanting to pretend the police and various media groups are lying about witnesses because the accident happened on a spot in the roadway that cannot be seen by pedestrians or from buildings. Yet, you fail to consider other vehicles on the road and the fact there are witness accounts of him driving recklessly before he got on the bridge. It is EXTREMELY common for speeders to pass a car and then for the car to come upon them crashed minutes later. Clearly there would be no mistaken a 52 year old farang man sitting on the back of a motorbike as opposed to a 16 year old girl in a red dress with flowing black hair.

Get over it, he was driving. Just because you know the area well means absolutely nothing when it comes to what witnesses saw. For God's sake it is a roadway traveled by numerous other vehicles.

With all due respect to you Nisa, TommyDee at least is for real. I mean, what do we have here, but just media reports, none of which is substantiated. On the other hand, we have Tommy Dee, a member of Thai Visa, who is informing us first hand that he uses that stretch frequently and then very logically has put forth his reasons for treating this media report with scepticism. As members of Thai Visa, and serious posters, whom do we choose to give greater credibility ? One of us who is posting upfront here under his handle and staking his reputation ? Or what at this point of time is just a media report written by god-knows-who ? Anyone worth his salt knows how media reports are manipulated by police, the police themselves have a remarkable reputation certainly among the expats living here. But, more importantly, TommyDee has provided very important background information on that overpass -- information which would be received with great care and attention in an impartial inquiry or discussion.

Why would you dismiss Tommy Dee's critical information in such off-hand manner unless you have direct knowledge of the same overpass and are in a position to challenge TDee. But you continue to rely solely on and defend newspaper reports, the veracity of which you have no clue about, while slamming a poster who is providing first hand information and inputs that are very critical to the case. He and a couple of other posters have raised valid, credible questions about whether there really were witnesses, or if there were, were they positioned in vehicles and why no vehicles stopped.

You have surely heard of Sherlock Holmes and the curious incident of the dog in the night-time.

"The dog did nothing in the night-time."

Holmes: "That was the curious incident."

It's another thing if you are habituated to believe anything you read in the press but I doubt you, Nisa, are built like that.

What should concern all of us, whatever nationality we are, in whichever nation we reside, is that the police can frame you with impunity, specially if you're dead, and the media is willing to play along. Not saying here that the media report is wrong and we are right with our suspicions. Just that keeping an open mind is the least we can do in fairness to the victims.

Nisa · August 16, 2012

yes, I saw the video before it was pixilated, all very gory. thank you.. and pity both of them.

I am sorry. I think it will be interesting to wait and see the reports that will no doubt be circulated later. you will, however, note that the location is as I describe and ask yourself the question.. " if the police are not sure if another vehicle was involved.. then how can there have been eye witnesses?"

It annoys me, slightly, ( not you, this is not as dig at you) that the police videos of the scene are passed to the media with a thai oral or written report which is based, partially, on supposition. that report is then translated and certain key points stand out in the translation. those being.. foreigner.. motor cycle, 4 in the morning , young girl, both dead and.. the impossible witnesses ( I am not sure where they came from).

from that each media source creates a story to headline the news. at that time there is no definite proof he was drunk, or speeding ( on a scooter not a motorbike) no condition report (it pissed down that night) no road condition report. I am NOT having a go at you.. but if you had any idea how many "reports" turn out to be wrong in one month you would be as unwilling to swallow what is spoon fed as I am.

Only this week we had a senator who stopped at a roadside restaurant to eat on his way to bangkok and took out a gun from his car to accidentally shoot his secretary, who later became his cousin, who later still became his wife, who even later turned out to have been at a family celebration of mothers day, .. in a different city.

the only fact in the whole story was that.. she was shot, and he did it.. accident or not. the rest.. was total guesswork arrived at at various stages by God knows who.

from that one example you might begin to understand that until the "real" report come out ( and they may well say the same as you think) we should not automatically assume that what you read here, there or on youtube.. is 100%

I have the utmost respect for the guys who put farang news together, its a tedious task and based on what ever is supplied by the officilas to the media suppliers which, in turn, is based on what ever was the word at the moment of recording. its then translated in numerous different ways to give u what you read. its a thankless task when it comes out wrong and a thankless task when ti comes out right. I know those who have done it for years and will grudgingly confirm what I say. and its not that much different in many places in the world.

today a man climbed up an electric pylon to kill himslef because his wife liked to travel. actually he did it because, in part, his wife liked to go out on occasions with her friends. see what is lost just in translation. ( and I am the junior in this game BTW)

You really have a very strange take. You continue to harp about an original report saying it was unsure if it was a single vehicle crash and then ignore all reports following detailing how the accident occurred and that it indeed was a single vehicle accident. With this logic, only 1-tower was taken down on 9-11.

And for reasons unknown to me and any known logic, you keep wanting to pretend the police and various media groups are lying about witnesses because the accident happened on a spot in the roadway that cannot be seen by pedestrians or from buildings. Yet, you fail to consider other vehicles on the road and the fact there are witness accounts of him driving recklessly before he got on the bridge. It is EXTREMELY common for speeders to pass a car and then for the car to come upon them crashed minutes later. Clearly there would be no mistaken a 52 year old farang man sitting on the back of a motorbike as opposed to a 16 year old girl in a red dress with flowing black hair.

Get over it, he was driving. Just because you know the area well means absolutely nothing when it comes to what witnesses saw. For God's sake it is a roadway traveled by numerous other vehicles.

With all due respect to you Nisa, TommyDee at least is for real. I mean, what do we have here, but just media reports, none of which is substantiated. On the other hand, we have Tommy Dee, a member of Thai Visa, who is informing us first hand that he uses that stretch frequently and then very logically has put forth his reasons for treating this media report with scepticism. As members of Thai Visa, and serious posters, whom do we choose to give greater credibility ? One of us who is posting upfront here under his handle and staking his reputation ? Or what at this point of time is just a media report written by god-knows-who ? Anyone worth his salt knows how media reports are manipulated by police, the police themselves have a remarkable reputation certainly among the expats living here. But, more importantly, TommyDee has provided very important background information on that overpass -- information which would be received with great care and attention in an impartial inquiry or discussion.

Why would you dismiss Tommy Dee's critical information in such off-hand manner unless you have direct knowledge of the same overpass and are in a position to challenge TDee. But you continue to rely solely on and defend newspaper reports, the veracity of which you have no clue about, while slamming a poster who is providing first hand information and inputs that are very critical to the case. He and a couple of other posters have raised valid, credible questions about whether there really were witnesses, or if there were, were they positioned in vehicles and why no vehicles stopped.

You have surely heard of Sherlock Holmes and the curious incident of the dog in the night-time.

"The dog did nothing in the night-time."

Holmes: "That was the curious incident."

It's another thing if you are habituated to believe anything you read in the press but I doubt you, Nisa, are built like that.

What should concern all of us, whatever nationality we are, in whichever nation we reside, is that the police can frame you with impunity, specially if you're dead, and the media is willing to play along. Not saying here that the media report is wrong and we are right with our suspicions. Just that keeping an open mind is the least we can do in fairness to the victims.

Your welcome to disbelieve or believe anything you want as well as putting more stock into the opinions of anonymous internet posters on forums as opposed to facts as provided by various news agencies and police and facts that make perfect sense and are common every day occurrences. It just seems very strange the lengths some will go to in order to disbelieve reports they don't want to accept about somebody but on the other hand will go to great length to believe even worse than reported in another story if they want to think the worst of the other person being reported.

Having knowledge of the road where the accident took place has absolutely zero relevance to if there were witnesses who saw him drive. It is a public road traveled by other vehicles and it is HIGHLY plausible and actually a very common occurrence for drivers and passengers to notice another vehicle to speed pass them and then minutes later come upon them in wreck.

Clearly you want to believe and disbelieve what you choose even if there are witness statements, police statements and a plethora of news agencies all stating the same basic basic fact. Even if there was video showing him minutes before the crash driving, we can still say they switched before the wreck. If he is convicted in court we can say it was a wrong conviction, if he had survived and admitted he was driving it would be a forced and dishonest confession.

Bottom line is at some point you have to stop believing in conspiracy theories, especially when there is no purpose or hint of one, and accept a simple facts for what it is .... he was the driver and the chance he wasn't is so astronomically implausible it makes no sense to try to push this notion as a possibility. Why not just question weather if this guy really died, if he was a farang, if the girl was Thai or if the accident even really took place and the bodies weren't just planted there by police.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Nisa

Nisa · August 16, 2012

A guy with no helmet and a passenger (both not public figures) with no helmet drives recklessly on a motorbike in Thailand and the result is both of them die. Everyday occurrence both in Thailand and around the globe but for some reason, that makes no sense what-so-ever, some people cannot accept this as the most logical and highly plausible scenario despite witnesses, police and various news agency reports, and instead want to speak of conspiracy theories to hide the truth .. including that they may have been assassinated.

DrTuner · August 16, 2012

Now that I've seen the video the dynamics of the crash seem clear. I used to live close to that ramp and drove by almost daily. It's a deserted piece of multilane road at night and could well be called The Hub of Speeding in Pattaya. Youngster with souped up cars can be heard piffing their turbo blow-out valves all night, as well as scooters trying to break the land record.

The speed was enough to hurl the viking all the way down from the ramp and crack the skull of the girl while she remained top side. Was probably going flat out on that Honda, the right turn of that ramp is surprisingly acute. Judgement clouded by ethanol and inadequate skills, deadly combination.

So I'll change my 95% to 99, probably exactly what it looks like.

TommyDee · August 16, 2012

Now that I've seen the video the dynamics of the crash seem clear. I used to live close to that ramp and drove by almost daily. It's a deserted piece of multilane road at night and could well be called The Hub of Speeding in Pattaya. Youngster with souped up cars can be heard piffing their turbo blow-out valves all night, as well as scooters trying to break the land record.

The speed was enough to hurl the viking all the way down from the ramp and crack the skull of the girl while she remained top side. Was probably going flat out on that Honda, the right turn of that ramp is surprisingly acute. Judgement clouded by ethanol and inadequate skills, deadly combination.

So I'll change my 95% to 99, probably exactly what it looks like.

now THAT I will go along with too, .. no assumption that thegirl is a hooker, no assumption that he was drunk. you are of course 100% on the ball about the angle of that turn its a pain even in a truck, I have seen big trucks slip from one lane to another on it . and th worst offenders are the idiots who come down it the wrong way. on the slip from the railway I nearly creamed a bike a few days ago who was coming the wrong way down the one way ramp.

our studio is about 150 yrds from it too, always here the screetching.

ttelise · August 16, 2012

Apart of all the guessing I'm reading here on and on, as a father I wonder why a 16 year old girl is sitting at the back of motorcycle of a 52 year old man at 04:30 am..

Nevertheless, my condolences to the families of the deceased.

I said this early on. Agree. Unless she snuck out, I think parents like this need a kick in the butt or worse. 16 year old should be at home a sleep or getting ready for school at that time.

maidu · August 17, 2012

A guy with no helmet and a passenger (both not public figures) with no helmet drives recklessly on a motorbike in Thailand and the result is both of them die. Everyday occurrence both in Thailand and around the globe but for some reason, that makes no sense what-so-ever, some people cannot accept this as the most logical and highly plausible scenario despite witnesses, police and various news agency reports, and instead want to speak of conspiracy theories to hide the truth .. including that they may have been assassinated.

None of us, including the police know if he was speeding or riding recklessly. It is common in Thailand (as you say), but 99% of the time it's by Thai drivers. Nearly every time I've seen old farang men on a motorbikes, particularly if with passenger, they're driving moderately and carefully.

Thai investigators get things wrong more often than they get things right. I could name dozens of examples.

Many times, when I've driven at moderate speed, a Thai driver will zip by me, sometimes with barely a cm between his car and my rear view mirror. Anyone who has driven more than 10 minutes in Thailand will know what I mean.

Edited August 17, 2012 by maidu

simple1 · August 17, 2012

A guy with no helmet and a passenger (both not public figures) with no helmet drives recklessly on a motorbike in Thailand and the result is both of them die. Everyday occurrence both in Thailand and around the globe but for some reason, that makes no sense what-so-ever, some people cannot accept this as the most logical and highly plausible scenario despite witnesses, police and various news agency reports, and instead want to speak of conspiracy theories to hide the truth .. including that they may have been assassinated.
None of us, including the police know if he was speeding or riding recklessly. It is common in Thailand (as you say), but 99% of the time it's by Thai drivers. Nearly every time I've seen old farang men on a motorbikes, particularly if with passenger, they're driving moderately and carefully.
Thai investigators get things wrong more often than they get things right. I could name dozens of examples.

Many times, when I've driven at moderate speed, a Thai driver will zip by me, sometimes with barely a cm between his car and my rear view mirror. Anyone who has driven more than 10 minutes in Thailand will know what I mean.

Here in Pattaya your observation about middle aged bike drivers is unfortunately incorrect. Many drive without helmets for them, their passengers and young children - yes more than two up on the bikes. Drive without lane discipline and over the speed limit. On a number of occasions I have been forced to take evasive action whilst driving my car due to their Thai style of driving. Farangs are killed whilst whilst driving bikes on a regular basis in Pattaya. According to media reports, many due to speeding in both the low & high season.

stefb1964 · August 17, 2012

Apart of all the guessing I'm reading here on and on, as a father I wonder why a 16 year old girl is sitting at the back of motorcycle of a 52 year old man at 04:30 am..

Nevertheless, my condolences to the families of the deceased.

I said this early on. Agree. Unless she snuck out, I think parents like this need a kick in the butt or worse. 16 year old should be at home a sleep or getting ready for school at that time.

absolutely

ozziebloke · August 17, 2012

As adults, we have a duty to protect children not take advantage of them particularly when they have been placed in compromising situations by society, their parents or just their bad judgment.

No one cares about the countless underage girls working in the bars and karaoke bars in Pattaya until one of them gets killed. Then suddenly the children need to be protected.

Thats an incorrect comment there are several societies working against this type of explloitation

With one headed up by a woman for her own glorification. She pops up from time to time when in need of a few column inches in one of the rags.

I was referring to reputable organizations,

http://www.thegreyman.org/

http://www.childprotectionpartnership.org/partners/thailand/fight-against-child-exploitation-foundation

http://www.catwinternational.org/factbook/Thailand.php

http://www.wiser.org/organization/view/159ed84fdd372ab2afc1c11be07abaf4

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