Falang In Udon Thani Jail.... Can Anyone Confirm?

[jaideeguy]

Falang in Udon Thani Jail.... Willard Underburg. Can anyone confirm?

My brother from Hawaii called and asked me to investigate this story and try to confirm for a friend of a friend of his and I thought I might get the best results on this forum. His family and friends are concerned as contact with someone in a Thai jail or prison is not too easy.

My brother says that he was jailed by immigration for a work permit issue and that sounds kinda fishy to me.

If anyone has any info on Willard, please let me know either on this forum or by PM.

Thanks in advance for any info....

[jaideeguy]

I just got off the phone with the US embassy in BKK and they confirmed that Willard was being held in the Udon Thani jail until funds from his relatives or friends arrive for his return flight to the US. If there are any friends of his there, maybe they can help or at least visit him and check on his condition and I'll pass info on to his family/frieds back home. I'm sure that he is hungry for some decent food if any fellow Americans care to help or visit.

Quite a price to pay for just working without a work permit!!

[David Peters]

Out of interest, what kind of work was he doing? I know of English teachers who teach with no work permit.

[puchooay]

Any kind of work without a work permit is illegal.

Remember one thing. One does not go to jail for breaking the law, but for getting caught.

[jaideeguy]

Yea, he was Educating the natives in the evil tongue of the Englishman!! Terrible crime and should be punished by stoning at the very least!!

[David Peters]

Any kind of work without a work permit is illegal.

Remember one thing. One does not go to jail for breaking the law, but for getting caught.

No that is not entirely correct. You only need a work permit if you are working for someone.or for a company etc.

You can not get a work permit unless you are working for a company or someone.

If you are self-employed, say like a consultant, you do not need a work permit.

I have discussed this at length with my lawyer and with the local labour departmentt in my city when a friend of mind starting working from his house for an overseas company via the internet.

[rct99q]

You may want to get your money back from your lawyer....the Alien Work Act states (in plain english)...

“Alien” means a natural person who is not of Thai nationality;

“Work” means engaging in work by exerting energy or using

knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits;

If you are performing "work" you either need a work permit or apply for permission from the Department of Employment. As a self employed you are/were required to set up your own company and follow all the red tape that entails. Some changes are/were supposedly happening allowing a person to be self employed (or hired by someone to perform work in Thailand but holding a business outside of Thailand) but do not know a what stage this may be taking place.

[David Peters]

Some changes are/were supposedly happening allowing a person to be self employed (or hired by someone to perform work in Thailand but holding a business outside of Thailand) but do not know a what stage this may be taking place.

My local Dept of Employment has informed me that these changes have taken place.

[jaideeguy]

It's not as if the guy comitted a violent act or robbed someone.....he just got caught doing work without permission, but he is an expat in need of help and support and my concern is to get him some help from the expat community in UT. I would expect the same if I were in his situation.

[KaronSteve]

Jaidee I have sent you a PM.The latest update I have is that a person on another Forum who knows Willard posted at 10.36 this morning."Went to Udon jail no knowledge of Will. Another friend of mine said he heard about it a couple of weeks ago. He must be out by now nd back in the US"If his family haven't sent any money yet others of the forum have speculated that he has been moved to Bangkok Immigration prison.I am happy to pass messages on but if you would like to follow what is posted the forum concerned is in the PM.I will try and get the phone number of Udon jail so you can get a native Thai speaker to talk with them.

Udon Thani police 042 32514, 19

Udon Thani Immigration police 042 - 246804 042-931687

Edited August 22, 2012 by KaronSteve

[jaideeguy]

Jaidee I have sent you a PM.The latest update I have is that a person on another Forum who knows Willard posted at 10.36 this morning."Went to Udon jail no knowledge of Will. Another friend of mine said he heard about it a couple of weeks ago. He must be out by now nd back in the US"If his family haven't sent any money yet others of the forum have speculated that he has been moved to Bangkok Immigration prison.I am happy to pass messages on but if you would like to follow what is posted the forum concerned is in the PM.I will try and get the phone number of Udon jail so you can get a native Thai speaker to talk with them.

Udon Thani police 042 32514, 19

Udon Thani Immigration police 042 - 246804 042-931687

Thanks for the link and info Steve....after reading the posts, it seems that he was a bit of a loner and I just heard from my brother in Hawaii that didn't have much family or enough to care about his situation. I don't even know the guy, but would be willing to donate a few $$ for his 'ransom' from immigration.

I'll ask my Thai wife to call them tomorrow and find out if there is a $$ number on getting him released and maybe it would be cheaper if he could go to another closer country....Cambodia, Laos or ??

Anyway, shame to hear that immigration can get you so easily for a victimless crime like teaching.

[David Peters]

Jaidee I have sent you a PM.The latest update I have is that a person on another Forum who knows Willard posted at 10.36 this morning."Went to Udon jail no knowledge of Will. Another friend of mine said he heard about it a couple of weeks ago. He must be out by now nd back in the US"If his family haven't sent any money yet others of the forum have speculated that he has been moved to Bangkok Immigration prison.I am happy to pass messages on but if you would like to follow what is posted the forum concerned is in the PM.I will try and get the phone number of Udon jail so you can get a native Thai speaker to talk with them.

Udon Thani police 042 32514, 19

Udon Thani Immigration police 042 - 246804 042-931687

Thanks for the link and info Steve....after reading the posts, it seems that he was a bit of a loner and I just heard from my brother in Hawaii that didn't have much family or enough to care about his situation. I don't even know the guy, but would be willing to donate a few $$ for his 'ransom' from immigration.

I'll ask my Thai wife to call them tomorrow and find out if there is a $$ number on getting him released and maybe it would be cheaper if he could go to another closer country....Cambodia, Laos or ??

Anyway, shame to hear that immigration can get you so easily for a victimless crime like teaching.

Two weeks ago on this forum, a person was asking if anyone was interested in teaching English for two months at his wife's High School (10,000 baht/month only for 6 hours per week) but they could not provide a Work Permit. The school had the cash and wanted somevretired farang to "pop" along for two months. I hope no one went otherwise they "might" end up in jail!

[KaronSteve]

Thanks for the link and info Steve....after reading the posts, it seems that he was a bit of a loner and I just heard from my brother in Hawaii that didn't have much family or enough to care about his situation. I don't even know the guy, but would be willing to donate a few $$ for his 'ransom' from immigration.

I'll ask my Thai wife to call them tomorrow and find out if there is a $$ number on getting him released and maybe it would be cheaper if he could go to another closer country....Cambodia, Laos or ??

Anyway, shame to hear that immigration can get you so easily for a victimless crime like teaching.

I think someone has got to find him first. As the Udon poster said "he wasn't in Udon jail". US Embassy perhaps?

[sirchai]

Yea, he was Educating the natives in the evil tongue of the Englishman!! Terrible crime and should be punished by stoning at the very least!!

Did he teach them if it was raining "cats and dogs", or did he just say it's raining as usual this season...???////

Would love to add that many people get this mixed up. Ubon Ratchathani, or Udon Thani....

Edited August 22, 2012 by sirchai

[canopus1969]

Thanks for the link and info Steve....after reading the posts, it seems that he was a bit of a loner and I just heard from my brother in Hawaii that didn't have much family or enough to care about his situation. I don't even know the guy, but would be willing to donate a few $$ for his 'ransom' from immigration.

I'll ask my Thai wife to call them tomorrow and find out if there is a $$ number on getting him released and maybe it would be cheaper if he could go to another closer country....Cambodia, Laos or ??

Anyway, shame to hear that immigration can get you so easily for a victimless crime like teaching.

Interesting viewpoint - so you are suggesting no teacher should have a WP ?

[TheGhostWithin]

Who was he working for? I know English teachers in Udon, they are not particularly well paid and are in heavy demand. I am guessing they are somewhat of a commodity in Udon, as things western are seen as the way ahead at least for the younger generation.

There must be more to this story.

[jaideeguy]

Thanks for the link and info Steve....after reading the posts, it seems that he was a bit of a loner and I just heard from my brother in Hawaii that didn't have much family or enough to care about his situation. I don't even know the guy, but would be willing to donate a few $$ for his 'ransom' from immigration.

I'll ask my Thai wife to call them tomorrow and find out if there is a $$ number on getting him released and maybe it would be cheaper if he could go to another closer country....Cambodia, Laos or ??

Anyway, shame to hear that immigration can get you so easily for a victimless crime like teaching.

Interesting viewpoint - so you are suggesting no teacher should have a WP ?

Why not?? what harm could it do if the natives did learn from a native English speaking teacher??

In fact, there is a new program just started this year that funds all major public schools in LOS to hire 'occasional' native English teachers and altho it pays a pittance, they waive the WP and most other qualifications.

But the old laws still remain and poor Willard got caught/snitched and is rotting in jail, as I read on the udontalk forum.

It is a shame when knowlege is a punishable crime!!

[harrry]

If it is an immigration matter he will be held in immigration detention either short term at the location or longer term transferred to Bangkok. These are separate to the jail. The jail will hold prisoners convicted of a crime and also people on remand for a crime. People will also be held in police detention for some time.

If it is a simple matter of working without a work permit the probable course is that the labour department may not prosecute but will let immigration cancel the visa. In this case he becomes an illegal immigrant and is detained until he can leave not in a prison but in an immigration facility which I have heard is much much worse..

Edited August 23, 2012 by harrry

[Rama]

Flight to a neighboring country won't do. It is my understanding in these situations that Immigration will only release with a ticket back to your home country. They don't want to release people and then have them popping back in 2 days later........

[namoi]

has anyone established if he is even in the can????

[KaronSteve]

JD Any update please?

[jaideeguy]

I spoke with my brother this morning and it seems that one of his few friends [a former teacher, i think] was going to contact the consulate today and try to find out details and may sponsor a return ticket to Hawaii.

Altho I don't know Willard I feel a bit sorry for him because of his lack of family and friends. Brother also told me that Willard was raised in a foster home and has no living relatives available to help.

My Thai wife asked me 'why am I getting involved in this?'' and my reply was that 'In my life, I have helped a few strangers because some day I may be a stranger myself'

hope to hear more tomorrow....let me know if you hear anything from Udon, Steve....

So, in one of the posts, there was an actual connection with Willard in the police station, right?

And....does anyone know if there will be any other expenses [fines, penalties etc] above the cost of the ticket?

Edited August 23, 2012 by jaideeguy

[KaronSteve]

I believe the posted connection with the "police" was the immigration police that got him for no work permit and overstaying on his visa.

I am not sure if the latter is true but if it is that is up to 20k on top of an air fare to Hawaii + probably a fine for working without a work permit.

JD if you want to help this guy you or someone needs to get on the US Embassy again with the update about the lack of family and funds. Then get them to find him as Willard's acquaintance in Udon is adamant that he is not in Udon jail in either the immigration or criminal side, ascertain what the charges are and what the resolution is and put the ball firmly in their court to make Willard their responsibility.

Maybe they already know all this and are acting but it is better to be safe than sorry. I would do it but I am back in England until October.

If somebody pleads his case properly by explaining that he has no family, no income, no savings etc. he may be able to get away with just the airfare so that the problem, him, goes away for the Thai authorities.

[jaideeguy]

Good advise Steve and if no news from Hawaii tomorrow, then I'll re-connect with the Embassy. Thanks again for taking an interest in this and keeping me updated.

[manxninja]

simple lesson. dont work without a permit.

[KaronSteve]

Jaidee I received a PM from someone who has been down Will's route before.

"Hi Steve,I've been deported before,this was the procedure, Police jail Udon Thani, then to the court Jail Udon Thani ( were you have to pay your overstay fine) than they bring you to Nong Khai Immigration Jail, were they wait for at least one or more people to be deported, then they drive you to the IDC in bangkok, and lock you up till you buy your ticket home, or till your Embassy comes to collect you. Will is probably in Court Jail Udon Thani or Nong Khai immigration Jail. Edited out, but I don't think he's mental strong enough to spend some time in jail in Thailand.

Ps money won't help him, only a ticket home, which he have to buy inside the IDC travel agents, little bit more expensive, but this girl has to do his release paperwork as well, so don't piss her off."

The guy who sent this knows Will and is a credible, trustworthy long term ex-pat so please take heed of the part I have highlighted.

Edited August 23, 2012 by KaronSteve

[KaronSteve]

Another person's Deportation experience...

"I know this directly from a friend who spend 10 days in BKK Immigration jail. I am on the phone with him now. Maybe I should start a new thread.

1. There are 5 holding cells. Each holds up to 100 people. They feed you rice 3 times a day. If you hide money when you are arrested you can buy snacks thru a fence in the yard....

2. They let everyone out to the yard (size of basketball court) to get air for an hour every three days. This is your chance to use a phone.

3. There's 4 or 5 phones in this room near the yard, so you get to stand in line with 400 -500 people who want to make calls (My friend says when he was there, the cells were pretty much full).. So you can have several calls if the people behind you don't kick your ass first. But all joking aside, you are lucky to get one or two calls in that hour.

4. They will not call your embassy for you. Calling the right people is up to you.

5. If your government doesn't give a shit you are screwed. He just told me that there were Chinese in there like 5 years.

6. When the US Embassy comes to the rescue and they will, eventually, if you or someone you knows contacts them, they will first take you to court where there is a hearing and then you pay your Thai immigration fine, then the US Fed Police take you to the airport and hand you a ticket home, and take your passport. Armed Feds escort you to the plane, you pretty much skip security and all that...at the boarding area they hand you a temporary "passport" so you can get through customs in the US.

7. Now you owe the US government $$$ and will never travel abroad again until you pay them"

[jaideeguy]

Update on Willard.....

After many attempts, busy phones, robo operators and wrong numbers, my Thai Wife finally got thru to Udon Immigration this morning and found that Willard has been sent to a BKK facility where he waits for someone to rescue him. Meanwhile, my brother is waiting to hear from Willard's [only?] friend who offered to bail him out, but doesn't want him to return to Hawaii [and be a burden]. She contacted the case worker at the US Embassy and is still waiting on a reply, as of this morning.

All4now....

Reading your post Steve gives me the shivers and hopes that Willard gets out ASAP.

[KaronSteve]

Latest post about Willard

"I am a US embassy warden in Udon. One of the posters here contacted me asking for assistance for Mr. Underburg.

I have been in touch with the embassy weekend duty officer, who has ascertained that they are aware of his detention. I informed them of his possible location in Nong Khai and that he might be moved to Bangkok on the 25th (I assume the poster meant the immigration detention center).

ACS (American Citizen Service: consular) will be following-up during normal business hours, but their biggest concern is for his medical situation.

If anyone learns anything NEW specifically about his health, please PM me at once. I'll monitor the forum and my email closely over the weekend.

Regards"

[elliss]

simple lesson. dont work without a permit.

no problem , suckool are sorting out my work permit .

if you believe that , prepare for your departure plan B, have adequate funds ..

thai immigration , are looking under the radar , and they can be ruthless.

ps. best of luck to the man concerned .