South Residents Urged To 'Help Themselves': Thailand

[dcutman]

As bad as I want to agree with the above posts. I am going to have to agree with this guy. These people claim they only want peace and it is only a few that are causing all this sh!t. Well, community and religious leaders should be able to gather all their constituents and stand up to these few, identify them or just take em out, if it is in fact peace, is all they want. It should be obvious to them, after nearly a decade, the Government, military and police cannot get the job done.

Except those few will then target those villages, and Village/Mosque Leaders for death in short order.

Basically he is passing the buck to the unfunded and under armed locals

to fend for themselves by directly attacking the insurgents and putting

their homes and families of instant risk of injury or death.

Yes, this is what they get for being good citizens living in fear.

Reason to have even greater fear. Because of their village elders

DO take this advice then anyone in the village becomes a target

whether they voted no or not.

Is all I can say to that, is this world would look a lot different today if everyone in the past that stood up against tyrants and terrorist had this/your mentality.

That is what the police and national guard types are supposed to deal with in this day and age.

The point is, the ones who are supposed to do it are NOT.

And now tell the defenseless ones to do it.

I understand your point.

My point is, the officials are not getting it done. If you truly want to live in peace, then you have to all come together and take care of it yourself as a community.

[sunshine51]

@dcutman...

Regarding your post #31...

But some folks make that dam_n near impossible, such as all the armed groups in

the 3 main hardcore Southern provinces of Narathiwat, Pattani and Yala. With a bit

of Eastern-Southeastern Songkla tossed in for more agro. Can't talk to a man

(or woman) who has the hammer cocked on a weapon pointed at your head...no

matter whose side that person is on. Insurgencies are not easy to stop; plain &

simple. Then compoubnd the situation by those who have their own personal axe

to grind/chop for whatever reasons they have and the mess just becomes much

more of a mess. This isn't just one single group acting up in the troubled southern

provinces...there's more than that and just how many varies to who wants to stirr

up some shit at the moment.

You have a nice ideal that if everybody gets together this mess may just be

solved quickly...but it just don't work like that in real life. Remember this...

the bad guys are helping themselves too and they have loads of weapons

with access to more (weapons and personnel) while the unarmed majority

are just that...unarmed.

Edited August 25, 2012 by sunshine51

[dcutman]

@dcutman...

Regarding your post #31...

But some folks make that dam_n near impossible, such as all the armed groups in

the 3 main hardcore Southern provinces of Narathiwat, Pattani and Yala. With a bit

of Eastern-Southeastern Songkla tossed in for more agro. Can't talk to a man

(or woman) who has the hammer cocked on a weapon pointed at your head...no

matter whose side that person is on. Insurgencies are not easy to stop; plain &

simple. Then compoubnd the situation by those who have their own personal axe

to grind/chop for whatever reasons they have and the mess just becomes much

more of a mess. This isn't just one single group acting up in the troubled southern

provinces...there's more than that and just how many varies to who wants to stirr

up some shit at the moment.

You have a nice ideal that if everybody gets together this mess may just be

solved quickly...but it just don't work like that in real life. Remember this...

the bad guys are helping themselves too and they have loads of weapons

with access to more (weapons and personnel) while the unarmed majority

are just that...unarmed.

Well this was my original point. IF i say again IF 99% of these Muslims actually want peace , so they say, they can achieve it. I personally dont believe only 1% of these people are down there raising hell, or any where else in the world for that matter, but that is their claim. I also believe many Muslims have some paranoid delusion that every none Muslim is the Devil and is out to destroy their faith,

It is not only my Ideal, but it does work that way, even with Muslims and has throughout history.

[sunshine51]

@ dcutman...

Why don't we raise that 1% to say 10%...that fits more into

a global perspective from my POV & experience.

[animatic]

Except those few will then target those villages, and Village/Mosque Leaders for death in short order.

Basically he is passing the buck to the unfunded and under armed locals

to fend for themselves by directly attacking the insurgents and putting

their homes and families of instant risk of injury or death.

Yes, this is what they get for being good citizens living in fear.

Reason to have even greater fear. Because of their village elders

DO take this advice then anyone in the village becomes a target

whether they voted no or not.

Is all I can say to that, is this world would look a lot different today if everyone in the past that stood up against tyrants and terrorist had this/your mentality.

That is what the police and national guard types are supposed to deal with in this day and age.

The point is, the ones who are supposed to do it are NOT.

And now tell the defenseless ones to do it.

I understand your point.

My point is, the officials are not getting it done. If you truly want to live in peace, then you have to all come together and take care of it yourself as a community.

Todays news was a "army informer" shot dead and the insurgent shot by a local non army security person.

The regular murder, regardless of religion, of anybody just talking or suspected of talking to army, shows how fast you go from villager to dead target down there.

[dcutman]

@ dcutman...

Why don't we raise that 1% to say 10%...that fits more into

a global perspective from my POV & experience.

OK 10% it is. I only base the 1% off of the Muslims worldwide claim. It is more than likely 35 to 40% radical, at least in attitude to all us infidels.

[simple1]

@ dcutman...

Why don't we raise that 1% to say 10%...that fits more into

a global perspective from my POV & experience.

OK 10% it is. I only base the 1% off of the Muslims worldwide claim. It is more than likely 35 to 40% radical, at least in attitude to all us infidels.

Where I live in Pattaya the Thai Muslims do not have access to the Thai language version of the Koran. The children, as did their parents, go to school at the Mosque to learn the teaching of Islam. They are not taught the extremist interpretation. Also they are taught how to memorise and chant the Koran in Arabic but have no idea what it means. As I have posted elsewhere in this forum, when I have asked them about the situation in the Deep South they have no alignment at all. Observations that 35/40% of Muslims follow extremist views are, in my opinion, false. I would suggest this is also true in secular Muslim countries. Lastly many people who post on this forum do not understand that Islam as practised in Thailand has many influences from Thai Buddhist society.

I will leave it up to sunshine51, who is involved day to day in the Deep South, if he wishes to do so, to post his view on the percentage of radicalised Muslims in the Deep South .EDIT. he has already posted approx max 10% of the population. From Thai media, security forces calculate around 10,000 participants (less than 1%); naturally I have no idea if this is accurate, deliberate misinformation etc

Edited August 26, 2012 by simple1

[dcutman]

@ dcutman...

Why don't we raise that 1% to say 10%...that fits more into

a global perspective from my POV & experience.

OK 10% it is. I only base the 1% off of the Muslims worldwide claim. It is more than likely 35 to 40% radical, at least in attitude to all us infidels.

Where I live in Pattaya the Thai Muslims do not have access to the Thai language version of the Koran. The children, as did their parents, go to school at the Mosque to learn the teaching of Islam. They are not taught the extremist interpretation. Also they are taught how to memorise and chant the Koran in Arabic but have no idea what it means. As I have posted elsewhere in this forum, when I have asked them about the situation in the Deep South they have no alignment at all. Observations that 35/40% of Muslims follow extremist views are, in my opinion, false. I would suggest this is also true in secular Muslim countries. Lastly many people who post on this forum do not understand that Islam as practised in Thailand has many influences from Thai Buddhist society.

I will leave it up to sunshine51, who is involved day to day in the Deep South, if he wishes to do so, to post his view on the percentage of radicalised Muslims in the Deep South .EDIT. he has already posted approx max 10% of the population. From Thai media, security forces calculate around 10,000 participants (less than 1%); naturally I have no idea if this is accurate, deliberate misinformation etc

Not sure what your point is. Its got nothing to do with Pattaya Muslims.

The debate here is, "IF" 99% of Muslims in the south want to live in peace, so they claim, can the community an religious leaders gather their constituents and have the fortitude to take care of themselves and stand up against these terrorists that seem to dominate in the south.

I for one think they can, if they wanted to. Some believe, it is impossible in this day and age.

[simple1]

@ dcutman...

Why don't we raise that 1% to say 10%...that fits more into

a global perspective from my POV & experience.

OK 10% it is. I only base the 1% off of the Muslims worldwide claim. It is more than likely 35 to 40% radical, at least in attitude to all us infidels.

Where I live in Pattaya the Thai Muslims do not have access to the Thai language version of the Koran. The children, as did their parents, go to school at the Mosque to learn the teaching of Islam. They are not taught the extremist interpretation. Also they are taught how to memorise and chant the Koran in Arabic but have no idea what it means. As I have posted elsewhere in this forum, when I have asked them about the situation in the Deep South they have no alignment at all. Observations that 35/40% of Muslims follow extremist views are, in my opinion, false. I would suggest this is also true in secular Muslim countries. Lastly many people who post on this forum do not understand that Islam as practised in Thailand has many influences from Thai Buddhist society.

I will leave it up to sunshine51, who is involved day to day in the Deep South, if he wishes to do so, to post his view on the percentage of radicalised Muslims in the Deep South .EDIT. he has already posted approx max 10% of the population. From Thai media, security forces calculate around 10,000 participants (less than 1%); naturally I have no idea if this is accurate, deliberate misinformation etc

Not sure what your point is. Its got nothing to do with Pattaya Muslims.

The debate here is, "IF" 99% of Muslims in the south want to live in peace, so they claim, can the community an religious leaders gather their constituents and have the fortitude to take care of themselves and stand up against these terrorists that seem to dominate in the south.

I for one think they can, if they wanted to. Some believe, it is impossible in this day and age.

I was pointing out that based upon my experience living in a Muslim community, comments about Muslims in Thailand and their beliefs is often misinformed. Unfortunately, unlike you, some posters just don't get that all Muslims are not the same if their beliefs and attitudes. As you have pointed out Islamic leaders in the South have condemned the violence and called for dialogue with Thai government as the way forward to address grievances. To have a population to cooperate with the military seems a somewhat bizarre expectation, when the military cannot even protect their own. Let alone the Thai military conceding to the establishment of an autonomous/semi autonomous region. Until the Thai government can get the military to step back and let the political negotiations take their course I cannot see a resolution to ending the conflict.

Edited August 27, 2012 by simple1

[puck2]

So the Far South isn't on Chalerm's list of things to do in 90 days then?

When I read the headline

SOUTH CRISIS

South residents urged to 'help themselves'

I thought this was Chalerm Y.'s answer to the question: "What are you doing to solve the problems in the South?"

[sunshine51]

@ dcutman...

Why don't we raise that 1% to say 10%...that fits more into

a global perspective from my POV & experience.

OK 10% it is. I only base the 1% off of the Muslims worldwide claim. It is more than likely 35 to 40% radical, at least in attitude to all us infidels.

Where I live in Pattaya the Thai Muslims do not have access to the Thai language version of the Koran. The children, as did their parents, go to school at the Mosque to learn the teaching of Islam. They are not taught the extremist interpretation. Also they are taught how to memorise and chant the Koran in Arabic but have no idea what it means. As I have posted elsewhere in this forum, when I have asked them about the situation in the Deep South they have no alignment at all. Observations that 35/40% of Muslims follow extremist views are, in my opinion, false. I would suggest this is also true in secular Muslim countries. Lastly many people who post on this forum do not understand that Islam as practised in Thailand has many influences from Thai Buddhist society.

I will leave it up to sunshine51, who is involved day to day in the Deep South, if he wishes to do so, to post his view on the percentage of radicalised Muslims in the Deep South .EDIT. he has already posted approx max 10% of the population. From Thai media, security forces calculate around 10,000 participants (less than 1%); naturally I have no idea if this is accurate, deliberate misinformation etc

Simple1...

That 10% was just a run of the mill estimate based upon global theory and that

old statement that says "It's the 10% that mess it up for the rest." I'm down in

Narathiwat as of tomorrow & I'll poke around the problem areas, ask some

questions and give a better estimate. Mind you that estimate will be based

on an extrapolated figure derived from the number of people I talk to who will

be of Buddhist and Muslim faith. I have no idea the current population of the

3 troubled provinces to include the eastern bits of Songkla so if you could help

attaining a population figure that would help us in determining a better and

perhaps more accurate percentage of bad guys to good people.

Another matter I'd like to inject here is that...Yes most of the Muslims in

the troubled provinces are not trouble makers and the same goes for

the situation in other nations whether part Muslim or entirely Muslim.

It is only a small percentage who actually cause the problems until

their ranks grow due to political/religious instability problems within

whatever country.

Now what I can't figure out, and haven't been able to do so for around

25 years is this...Why can't the peacefull and peace loving Muslims

in these nations (Thailand included) get together and eliminate the

"troublemakers" or have them arrested or whatever? Why won't they

do this? I mean, if my neighbourhood has a bunch of thugs terrorising

the rest of us...if the cops wouldn't do anything...I would get a "few

good men" together, train them and we'd dam_n sure solve the problem

ourselves.

I mean it's almost as if Islam is more of a brotherhood than a religion

if I compare it to say the Teamsters in the US or Wharfies in the UK

or whatever in other places. Not only would they never rat on a member

but they'd just turn the other way if some member caused strife to

others in their "community.

In the end...Why can't the rest of the Muslims (peacefull) in the

"South" solve their own Muslim problem (get rid of the detritus)

if they are the majority? Yes the bad guys have more lethal weapons

but spades, hoes and machettes work pretty well and make almost

no noise. Plus...nobody can convince me that the peaceful lot

do not know who the violent lot is.

Sorry about the digression but I still have this burning question I

need to find an answer for....

Which goes along with the posts on this page plus the RTA hasn't

much of a clue who the real bad guys are anyway...to me...so that's

why the buck is being passed. Mind you it could be a ploy also,

lets not dismiss that.

ss

Edited August 27, 2012 by sunshine51

[animatic]

@ dcutman...

Why don't we raise that 1% to say 10%...that fits more into

a global perspective from my POV & experience.

OK 10% it is. I only base the 1% off of the Muslims worldwide claim. It is more than likely 35 to 40% radical, at least in attitude to all us infidels.

Where I live in Pattaya the Thai Muslims do not have access to the Thai language version of the Koran. The children, as did their parents, go to school at the Mosque to learn the teaching of Islam. They are not taught the extremist interpretation. Also they are taught how to memorise and chant the Koran in Arabic but have no idea what it means. As I have posted elsewhere in this forum, when I have asked them about the situation in the Deep South they have no alignment at all. Observations that 35/40% of Muslims follow extremist views are, in my opinion, false. I would suggest this is also true in secular Muslim countries. Lastly many people who post on this forum do not understand that Islam as practised in Thailand has many influences from Thai Buddhist society.

I will leave it up to sunshine51, who is involved day to day in the Deep South, if he wishes to do so, to post his view on the percentage of radicalised Muslims in the Deep South .EDIT. he has already posted approx max 10% of the population. From Thai media, security forces calculate around 10,000 participants (less than 1%); naturally I have no idea if this is accurate, deliberate misinformation etc

Not sure what your point is. Its got nothing to do with Pattaya Muslims.

The debate here is, "IF" 99% of Muslims in the south want to live in peace, so they claim, can the community an religious leaders gather their constituents and have the fortitude to take care of themselves and stand up against these terrorists that seem to dominate in the south.

I for one think they can, if they wanted to. Some believe, it is impossible in this day and age.

If that were true they would have. And that is why this type of radical insurgence is so insidious, the common folk can not stand up to it.

[dcutman]

@ Animatic

Sorry I can quote your post anymore (error)

Do you really think the local Muslim population has not risen and fought for the peace they say they so desire, because they are scared? Could it possibly be that they have not stood up to fight for their peace, is because they are not the one's being targeted? except for some collateral damage, the targets of these terrorist have been mainly Buddhist, government or military.

Of course many want to live a peaceful life, they will not go against a fellow Muslim under any circumstance when the victims of this violence are of a non Muslim faith. Unless of course there is some secular divide, but that is another topic.