Ya Atratum

[Khonwan]

I was just reading that the government forage seed nurseries are still selling atratum seed (Paspalum atratum). A word of warning to anyone tempted to plant this: don’t!

On the advice of the nursery in Chainat, I planted half my pasture enclosures with this seed (over 10 years ago). My cattle, including the small native breed (poon muang keb) that generally eat anything, would stand all morning in an enclosed field before succumbing to hunger and being forced to graze this grass by the afternoon. The grass is extremely sharp.

I returned the following year to purchase more seed (not atratum) and mentioned this problem: the staff said that they had been told the same by many farmers. They said it was good as cut-and-carry forage. I allowed my cattle to graze pasture during the day then feed on cut-and-carry grass (and other forage) in the feedlot during the night. Atratum is softened by the cut-and-carry method and is therefore more palatable but was still the grass least preferred by the cattle (I had 160 at peak; none now).

It is also an extremely difficult grass to eradicate should you later wish to grow crops.

I don’t expect much discussion on this subject (though welcome, of course) since I don’t see anyone here still raising many cattle, but I’m posting this should anyone in the future contemplate planting this seed (it will come up on a Google search).

Rgds

Khonwan

[xen]

Hi Khonwan,

Just out of curiosity has any body used Kikuya grass ( Pennisetum clandestinum) in Thailand as pasture crop for cattle. I have a love/hate relationship with it as it can be an aggressive ,invasive species but when i was farming in Oz the cattle loved it and it handled both dry and wet conditions. A hot day after a overnight shower and you can almost see it growing . This is why it is used in many sports fields, not so much that is resists wear but because it recovers so quickly.

I am not suggesting it is introduced as it will cause as many problems if not more than the benifits it will give but i have never seen it here which surprises me .

[Khonwan]

Hi Xen

I have never heard of it. According to http://www.tropicalforages.info/key/Forages/Media/Html/Pennisetum_clandestinum.htm it is not native to or naturalised in Thailand, thankfully since I’m cropping now – still trying to rid my fields of atratum grass after many years.

Rgds

Khonwan

[Michael Hare]

tt

[Michael Hare]

Good afternnon Khonwan and Xen,

This morning I was contacted by a colleague who said that I should respond to two discussions on the Thai Visa forum that were in my field of interest-Yaa atratum and Grass Seed.

After reading these discussions I have decided to respond. It has been a learning experience just to sign in but here I am under my own name Michael Hare.

First of all I will introduce myself if I may. I am a New Zealander who came to Thailand in 1974 and I have been working since then on tropical forages and seeds. I am now based in the Faculty of Agriculture at Ubon Ratchathani University and I am now running a seed and research business with a Mexican Seed Company Tropical Seeds

http://www.tropseeds.com/

I am responsible for bringing "Ya Atratum" to Thailand in 1994. It is a swamp grass. It will grow in swamps where other improved forage grasses will not. it will tolerate waterlogging from August to October. Other good grasses usually die. We know about it being unpalatable but usually this is caused by letting it grow too rank. It should not grow above knee-height. Keep it leafy. More information can be found on these sites.

http://www.tropseeds.com/ubon-paspalum/

http://www.tropicalforages.info/key/Forages/Media/Html/Paspalum_atratum.htm

We produce about 10,000 kg of seed per year which is mainly exported to Guatemala and Mexico for use in swampy areas. The Dept of Livestock Development also produce Ubon paspalum but call it Ya atratum. Their seed quality is generally inferior to our seed.

Ubon paspalum is not an aggressive grass but if you let it seed then the plants can spread from fallen seeds. We have never found it a problem to eradicate. Ploughing and discing usually does the trick but failing that, spray Roundup or 24D.

It should not be grown on free-draining upland where better grasses with better dry season tolerance are available.

Again I am very sorry for your bad experience Khonwan. But you weren't to know. If I was farming in your situation I would have never planted the grass but gone for Mulato II or Mombasa guinea which are highly palatable grasses.You can read about them on our website at http://www.tropseeds.com/

There are many other things I could write about but that will probably do for now on Ubon paspalum

As for Xen's inquiry about Kikuyu grass http://www.tropicalforages.info/key/Forages/Media/Html/Pennisetum_clandestinum.htm

Kikuyu grass has never done well in Thailand because of the hot humid conditions. It is more suited to subtropical regions.

I hope these few points above are of help.

I will now answer the questions on "Grass Seed"

Michael Hare

Ubon Forage Seeds

[xen]

Thanks Michael for that information and welcome to TV. Look forward to your future contributions in this area and no doubt they will be most informative.

I would thought Kikuya would have done okay in Thailand . Is it fungal problems that inhibit it . It may well be a blessing that it does not do well .

[Khonwan]

Hi Michael; happy to welcome you to the forum. Thanks for your explanation and comments.

The other half of my pastures were planted with some ruzi and mostly purple guinea. All my pastures were on undulating hills with good drainage and very poor water retention. The purple guinea was advised at the time since the roots grow deep (depth of roots equal to the height of the grass before first cut/graze). The nursery was out of these and therefore sold me atratum in full knowledge of the Mae Wong district location and knowing why I wanted purple guinea…but this is Thailand!

We continue to try to eradicate clumps of atratum having given up cattle farming something like 7 or 8 years ago. We cross-plough with a 7-disc harrower, raise ridges, spray Sumisoya pre-emergence, paraquat before cassava is 6 month old, and glyphosate after 6 month where necessary. We also use the much deeper 5-disc plough every second cultivation-cycle. We are still doing this. We also pull as much as possible manually. So I’m surprised to read that it’s not difficult to eradicate. I don’t think we’ve tried 24D (don’t recall hearing of it) so I’ll try that next time.

Rgds

Khonwan

[Michael Hare]

Hi Michael; happy to welcome you to the forum. Thanks for your explanation and comments.

The other half of my pastures were planted with some ruzi and mostly purple guinea. All my pastures were on undulating hills with good drainage and very poor water retention. The purple guinea was advised at the time since the roots grow deep (depth of roots equal to the height of the grass before first cut/graze). The nursery was out of these and therefore sold me atratum in full knowledge of the Mae Wong district location and knowing why I wanted purple guinea…but this is Thailand!

We continue to try to eradicate clumps of atratum having given up cattle farming something like 7 or 8 years ago. We cross-plough with a 7-disc harrower, raise ridges, spray Sumisoya pre-emergence, paraquat before cassava is 6 month old, and glyphosate after 6 month where necessary. We also use the much deeper 5-disc plough every second cultivation-cycle. We are still doing this. We also pull as much as possible manually. So I’m surprised to read that it’s not difficult to eradicate. I don’t think we’ve tried 24D (don’t recall hearing of it) so I’ll try that next time.

Rgds

Khonwan

Good evening Khonwan.

Maybe you planted Paspalum plicatulum instead of Paspalum atratum? 15 to 20 years ago the DLD were producing tonnes of plicatulum seed to distribute in swampy areas of southern Thailand. Hard to eradicate and livestock are generally very reluctant to eat it at all. It can become an aggressive weed.

Now you are into cropping, probably cassava, my main competitor for grass seed production. I hate the plant, cassava that is. But I won't bore you with those details today.

Try 24D. It takes about 5 days for the plants to curl over and die.

Regards,

Michael Hare

[Khonwan]

Hi Michael

You could well be right. I know that it was sold as “ya a-ta-tum” and I only ever knew it by that Thai pronunciation until I came across the English and Latin names the day I started this thread. I’ll certainly give 24D a try – thanks.

I laughed when you mentioned your hate of cassava, which has become my farming salvation.

Like Surin Steve over on the Grass seed thread, I too only wish I’d known you all those years ago when I started with cattle (15/16 years ago).

Rgds

Khonwan

[JungleBiker]

Good evening Khonwan.

Maybe you planted Paspalum plicatulum instead of Paspalum atratum?

Hard to eradicate and livestock are generally very reluctant to eat it at all. It can become an aggressive weed.

Try 24D. It takes about 5 days for the plants to curl over and die.

Regards,

Michael Hare

I wouldn't want Khonwan to waste his time and money spraying 2,4-D on his paspalum (grass) weeds, so would just like to point out that as mentioned in the other thread 2,4-D is used to kill broad-leaved weeds in grass without killing the grass.