Neutering Of Dogs

[Levent]

We recently discovered that our dog is one month pregnant. We were at the vet's to have her neutered... obviously too late. We already have three puppies (3 out of 5 from last time, the 2 others have been adopted).

We were extremely careful when she was on heat but to no avail. We can't have more dogs in and around the house. We asked the vet whether he could do a termination, but he doesn't want to because of moral grounds. We asked various vets in Pattaya, but all gave the same answer. We respect their way of thinking, but it makes me wonder: with all those poor strays walking around, would they rather have more puppies born with an uncertain future instead of preventing it?

Of course, we were simply too late to have our dog neutered. And we will do our best to find the puppies a new home in due course. But there are so many dogs in need out there already...

About the strays: It would take some effort, but an effective neutering programme would improve the situation considerably. Besides, I am sure that many (European/American) tourists are shocked to see the condition many stray dogs are in. So it would also improve Pattaya's position.

Care to share your thoughts on this?

[udon]

You could neuter the 5 million stray dogs and you'd still have 5 million stray dogs defecating all over Thailand and menacing us.

It's the sheer numbers that's the problem.

[Levent]

You could neuter the 5 million stray dogs and you'd still have 5 million stray dogs defecating all over Thailand and menacing us.

It's the sheer numbers that's the problem.

Correct, but that's the whole idea. A neutered dog can't have puppies, and keeping in mind that the avrerage female has a litter of four or five or so, the problem will only get worse. If (part of) the dogs are neutered, their population will not grow that rapidly anymore. And yes, it is possible to solve the strays problem by neutering them all, and only have puppies born out of well fed and taken care of mothers; puppies with a promising future because they will be taken care of in a home.

The dogs can't help breeding, it's in their instincts.

We humans are the ones who can improve the situation. And I think people refusing to have dogs neutered or pregnancies terminated, knowing that it might only worsen the situation, are not acting in the correct way.

[Linisha]

You could neuter the 5 million stray dogs and you'd still have 5 million stray dogs defecating all over Thailand and menacing us.

It's the sheer numbers that's the problem.

Correct, but that's the whole idea. A neutered dog can't have puppies, and keeping in mind that the avrerage female has a litter of four or five or so, the problem will only get worse. If (part of) the dogs are neutered, their population will not grow that rapidly anymore. And yes, it is possible to solve the strays problem by neutering them all, and only have puppies born out of well fed and taken care of mothers; puppies with a promising future because they will be taken care of in a home.

The dogs can't help breeding, it's in their instincts.

We humans are the ones who can improve the situation. And I think people refusing to have dogs neutered or pregnancies terminated, knowing that it might only worsen the situation, are not acting in the correct way.

Good thinking, and really, for how long would there be 5 million stray dogs around?? Not for very long, considering they are in different ages. A dogs life span is not that long...

Neutering and spaying programs is definitively the way to go. In Bangkok Soi dog is doing a brilliant job. 1400 dogs spayed last year in a small clinic!

During one evening in Pattaya I spoke to 4 other tourists, both men and women, who were horrified by the situation with the dogs. In Sweden I know many people (more than 5) that doesn't even want to go to Thailand because of this. They know they will be so upset and sad that they will not be able to have a good time. I am the same way, the only reason I can take it is that I always try to make a small difference. If I see something I try to do something. But of course it becomes expensive!

I really wish there was people in Pattaya willing to work with this in the same manner as SDR does in Bangkok. If anyone would, it would be great to hear from you, maybe we can work someting out! I am just now planning a fundraising campaign (in Sweden) to support these kind of projects in Thailand.

[udon]

Try your do-gooder ideas out on someone who has been injured thru soi dog behaviour or someone who has been bitten or scratched by a soi dog and had to endure a course of anti rabies injections.

My last encounter with soi dogs cost me a broken leg and costs exceeding $5000 plus airfares back to Aus.

[meadish_sweetball]

She's trying to improve the situation, udon... Why the animosity?

[udon]

She's trying to improve the situation, udon... Why the animosity?

It's the sheer number of stray dogs which, even if it were possible to neuter all of them you'd still have 5 million stray dogs (neutered) and crapping all over, menacing people & causing accidents for many many years..

Like it or not there has to be a culling program Common sense dictates it.

BTW it's not animosity, it's facts.

Nothing wrong with being a do-gooder, but do-gooders have to be realistic......

------------

PS., and who's going to pay for the cost of neutering 5 million strays? Certainly not this gov't.!

[girlx]

my dog has also gone into her first heat before i could get her to the vet or vice versa... and this is a huge problem for me because there are so many dogs in my village, and no way to keep her away from them short of putting on diapers (which they would just chew off). it's apparently the trend here for dogs to have huge litters of like 9-10 puppies, so i guess i have that to look forward to, when i already have a minimum of 5-6 dogs in my yard fighting and begging for food daily. i am simply overwhelmed by the numbers of dogs here and can't think of any solution short of poisoning them all (the thais' brilliant idea, which is often carried out). there is phangan animal care on this island, and they do their best to try to control the population, but they simply don't have enough doctors willing to volunteer and help out, and they can't get to more isolated areas of the island, such as where i live. the temples are overflowing, the monks don't even take care of the pets there... what can be done? my good friend's dog is also in heat and guaranteed to be pregnant soon.

[meadish_sweetball]

Well, culling is not an option for many Thais because as you probably know, it is seen as directly against the religion - life is life. It would be political suicide to suggest it. Easy to look in from the outside and say it's wrong. Better to try to work with a method that can gain support from the locals IMO. Actually more realistic too.

Killing off a large percentage of people over 60 in Europe would save on government expenses and enable us to lower taxes... so why don't we do it - it's just common sense, isn't it?

[udon]

Well, culling is not an option for many Thais because as you probably know, it is seen as directly against the religion - life is life. It would be political suicide to suggest it. Easy to look in from the outside and say it's wrong. Better to try to work with a method that can gain support from the locals IMO. Actually more realistic too.

Killing off a large percentage of people over 60 in Europe would save on government expenses and enable us to lower taxes... so why don't we do it - it's just common sense, isn't it?

Thais kill millions pigs, chooks, cattle, etc every day, so the "Thai religion" excuse just doesn't hold water.

What's your practical solution instead of dancing around the stray dog problem, I haven't seen one practical idea put fwd from you yet.

Try finding a veggie restaurant in Thailand, you'd have more chance of finding chicken teeth ... very rare but they are out there.

Your comment about the over 60's doesn't deserve a reply.

[BambinA]

Estrus cycle of female dog

normal cycle = evey 6-8 mths (should record the heat cycle for information, if cycle is lately more than 10 mths =abnormal)

Proestrus - 4-15 days > swelling/rigid vulva , bloody discharge

Estrus - 4-8 days > swelling/soften vulva, decrease bloody discharge , changed to straw colored discharge ,accepted court

Diestrus -6-10 wks

> fertilization > pregnancy

>non-fertilization >pseudo pregnancy

Anestrus > Reproductive system resting

if you wanna do Contraceptve injections , can do it by human product as Medroxyprogesterone Acetate as Depo Gestin 1-1.5 cc /dog , IM /SC can control for 6 mth

Do it in Anestrus ONLY!! (maybe count the date (for 3-3 1/2 mths) from you see the 1st drop of bloody vaginal discharge ,

Cuation, Progesterone inj. lead to " Pyometra" if injection in wrong period

[meadish_sweetball]

Well, culling is not an option for many Thais because as you probably know, it is seen as directly against the religion - life is life. It would be political suicide to suggest it. Easy to look in from the outside and say it's wrong. Better to try to work with a method that can gain support from the locals IMO. Actually more realistic too.

Killing off a large percentage of people over 60 in Europe would save on government expenses and enable us to lower taxes... so why don't we do it - it's just common sense, isn't it?

Thais kill millions pigs, chooks, cattle, etc every day, so the "Thai religion" excuse just doesn't hold water.

What's your practical solution instead of dancing around the stray dog problem, I haven't seen one practical idea put fwd from you yet.

Try finding a veggie restaurant in Thailand, you'd have more chance of finding chicken teeth ... very rare but they are out there.

Your comment about the over 60's doesn't deserve a reply.

Chiang Mai has over 50 vegetarian restaurants and a large active vegetarian community - in the Southern cities where a Chinese deity is worshipped there are also quite a few. Not all of them cater to Westerners though, so you have to know what you are looking for.

My idea, constructive or not, is what has already been said before. Neutering on as large a scale as possible. Apart from that, it would be nice if more people took in stray dog puppies and raised themselves instead of getting pedigree dogs. I dont think it will happen though, just pointing it is a good idea.

Personally I did not mind the buckets for dogs program they had in Isaan a while ago either, but like I have been trying to tell you to no avail, culling is not supported by most Thais and therefore the program disappeared for a reason.

It's ok to kill animals for food according to the religion, so it does hold water in the eyes of its believers. Not saying I am subscribing to the same idea, just that this is an opinion you cannot ignore just because you find it to be hypocritical.

Anyway, no more debating this subject from me, I just asked you why you felt the need to pull an angry face at a person who is making an effort at doing something concrete about it apart from just debating. If it's a big issue to you, prove it by writing to a Thai politician or write an editorial or something...

I am actually not that bothered about the soi dogs. I try to pull my share by supporting an orphan through school instead.

[udon]

Fair enough, but I think your attitude would be a lot different if you had to go thru the rabies shots or suffered an injury because of Thailand's strays.

BTW, That emoticon denotes "annoyed" not "angry".

[Linisha]

Fair enough, but I think your attitude would be a lot different if you had to go thru the rabies shots or suffered an injury because of Thailand's strays.

BTW, That emoticon denotes "annoyed" not "angry".

I do understand how upsetting and irritating it must be to be bitten by street dogs. Though, speking from my own point of view, NO, I wouldn't feel the least different about this issue, had I been bitten. That wouldn't change the way I look upon this issue. The dogs are there because of human neglect and lack of responsability. The dogs on the street are mistreated and often abused. I am very surprised that I have not yet encountered a bad tempered or scared dog, that have shown aggression towards me. I guess it is only a matter of time so I will get my rabies shots, to have a little more time when/if I have bad luck. Though the natural fact that some of these dogs gets aggressive does not mean that I don't see neutering programs as the only humane and long term effective ways of dealing with the problem. And the government does have the ambition to neuter the street dogs, and is doing so in incredible numbers. The way they do it is however not very humane...

By the way I think it is more incredible that the vast majority of street dogs are so social and calm than the fact that some are not. Seeing to their number and the way they live, I would expect it to be otherwise. I find so many street dogs being incredibly intelligent, affectionate and social. They make excellent family dogs!

Last year 30 vets from Scandinavia went to Thailand to help with neutering/spaying of street dogs. The interest from foreign vets was very big and the thing that limited the number and the time was that the arranging org (SDR) is very small and couldn't handle a big operation. In some villages the vets took care of more than 2/3 of the total dog population.

However, to be long term effective, these kind of programs can not only be focused on neutering, another goal has to be to change peoples attitude towards resposability for animals they take care of. Looking at other countries, I don't think it is unrealistic to think that this is possible.

Finally, spayed/neutered dogs are less agressive and they don't move around as much as they do otherwise. This means that spaying the dogs will have an impact on accidents ivolving dogs and people.

[english_farang_lady]

Humans are supposed to act responsibly. Dogs can’t. With the right to walk down the street and not be attacked by dogs, comes the responsibility to do something about it. Too many people today are bleating about their rights, but not interested when it comes to their responsibilities. I suspect many of these people end up in Thailand.

The reason the vets do not want to know about controlling the dog population is 1 they are hardened to seeing injured and sick animals, and 2 they are more concerned about the bad karma they will attract than the plight of yet more street dogs. It is purely a

question of priorities.

Having worked in tourism for many years, it is astounding to me that Thailand would try to promote itself as the perfect destination for Europeans and North Americans, while not addressing the street dog situation in a sustained, ethical and humane manner. This shows a basic lack of understanding of both Europeans and North Americans. They are shooting themselves in the foot BIGTIME. Many right – minded tourists are absolutely disgusted, horrified and amazed to see the pitiful state of some of many of these creatures.

Thailand is the only ‘foreign’ country I have ever lived in where the ex-pat community seem to want to take all the country has to offer, and give back very little in return. In Spain and even in the wilds of Mexico, ex-pats were the instigating force behind animal welfare schemes, including spaying and neutering, re-homing, and free veterinary care.

The worldwide kudos and positive PR for instigating such animal welfare schemes would pay Thailand back tenfold, and as a by-product, help the street dogs, who cannot help themselves. Many street dogs have given up, I see it in their eyes. They are remarkably controlled and well behaved considering the appalling conditions, and desperation they face on a daily basis.

Is it morally correct to blame a dog for injury? It is through abject neglect and worse that these miserable creatures must live. They do not have a choice. Humans do.

‘Do-gooders have to be realistic?’ Do ex-patriots also have to be realistic I wonder?

Given the massive, nationwide problem of street dogs, it is totally unrealistic to expect charity to cover the costs. Good-hearted people can help, but essentially the funding must come either from the government or state.

The Dog Shelter in Hua Hin featured recently in Bangkok Post could be considered a model other townships to emulate. But they are only scratching the surface. It was funded by a grant from The King.

Any schemes put in place will fail unless they have the full support of a core of enlightened veterinary practitioners. They simply must be on board. Due to their morals, it seems unlikely that any will, unless persuaded by the mighty Baht.

The scale of the problem is completely overwhelming, both locally, and country-wide. And without consolidated and sustained action (from caring and concerned humans), it will only get worse.

The suggestion of a doggie contraceptive, although well meaning, would be a short term solution for a long term problem. A band-aid on a gaping wound gushing blood. Few people could afford this on an ongoing basis.

The only solution which stands any chance of success HAS to be nationwide, and HAS to be sustained and co-ordinated. These are ALL necessary steps. Miss one, and the same problem will be encountered afew years down the road.

1. Humane Mass Culling - This is sad but unavoidable.

2. Mass neutering and spaying program - FREE OF CHARGE TO ALL

3. Re-Homing centres.

4. Education Program nationwide.

It seems to me, the only way this will take place is if someone in authority is brought ‘on side’. Perhaps a million questionnaires from tourists leaving the country who are absolutely disgusted and outraged by the street dogs mass neglect would move someone in power ?

This coupled with petitions signed by departing tourists (and maybe incoming too) would surely make someone sit up and take notice eventually?

The dogs cannot break this cycle of misery. Humans can.

Edited January 27, 2006 by english_farang_lady

[udon]

Agreed, 100%.

If all pet owners had to pay a rego fee and have their dogs microchipped it might make them think twice about owning a dog.

Any farang or Thai who put their pet out on the street could be named, shamed and fined heftily.

My dog will be chipped.

[sigistardust]

We recently discovered that our dog is one month pregnant. We were at the vet's to have her neutered... obviously too late. We already have three puppies (3 out of 5 from last time, the 2 others have been adopted).

We were extremely careful when she was on heat but to no avail. We can't have more dogs in and around the house. We asked the vet whether he could do a termination, but he doesn't want to because of moral grounds. We asked various vets in Pattaya, but all gave the same answer. We respect their way of thinking, but it makes me wonder: with all those poor strays walking around, would they rather have more puppies born with an uncertain future instead of preventing it?

Of course, we were simply too late to have our dog neutered. And we will do our best to find the puppies a new home in due course. But there are so many dogs in need out there already...

About the strays: It would take some effort, but an effective neutering programme would improve the situation considerably. Besides, I am sure that many (European/American) tourists are shocked to see the condition many stray dogs are in. So it would also improve Pattaya's position.

Care to share your thoughts on this?

Hi Levent, I am a Bali Indonesia Traveler, and had the same problem with stray dogs, it was very very bad, since Bali is soo much smaller Tourists were angered and very affected with these poor looking animals well, just like Thailand.,many Expats and season travelers got together and created a clinique for spaying dogs and cats a n d giving injections to stray dogs for parasits. lucky for us a Vet from Australia visited Bali and heard from our effort, so he volunteered to come for 3 mos and train people to inject those Bali Street Dogs he did the surgeries, now word to mouth and after 2 yrs we have a steady team of Indones. Vets working in our Clinique wich now is larger and also has kennels for weekly patience our Motto is healing instaed of Killing ( or better of instaed of dying) its called Yudisthira Street Dogs Foundation". A team of Balines volunteers

are going around the Island with a Truck and Net and collecting the stray Street Dogs, often asking the people where they are hiding and , and giving them either injegtions if needed or take them to the clinique. I had about 4 street dogs spayed and even found a home for them with expats, this female and her offsprings are doing just great as fam. members, perhaps it could be done in your area there are enough of Vets which are visiting Thailand and could be intgrated and help. these Thai dogs are really in bad shape also very few are being fed by citizens it needs a big education when visiting Bkk in Kaorsan St. I seen two beautiful young Rottweilers tied on a very short leash in some back yard, I approached the owner and advised him to loosing the rope since it will kill their vocal cords,(ha ha ) but he believed me and did so I checked on those dogs for the four week I was there and their rope became long the dogs were comfortable and even played some, with me< when I checked on them after dark.

I still support the Dog Foundation with some money when home again, it can work mluch is not needed but determination.

Good Luck it could be done in Thailand as well, especially if the Thais know how much the Tourists are upset by the sight of these poor street animals a note to the local touristbuerau could do the trick.

Sigistardust

[englishoak]

hey you could open a vet & tracker store.

Call it

Chip-Chop

[sbk]

my dog has also gone into her first heat before i could get her to the vet or vice versa... and this is a huge problem for me because there are so many dogs in my village, and no way to keep her away from them short of putting on diapers (which they would just chew off). it's apparently the trend here for dogs to have huge litters of like 9-10 puppies, so i guess i have that to look forward to, when i already have a minimum of 5-6 dogs in my yard fighting and begging for food daily. i am simply overwhelmed by the numbers of dogs here and can't think of any solution short of poisoning them all (the thais' brilliant idea, which is often carried out). there is phangan animal care on this island, and they do their best to try to control the population, but they simply don't have enough doctors willing to volunteer and help out, and they can't get to more isolated areas of the island, such as where i live. the temples are overflowing, the monks don't even take care of the pets there... what can be done? my good friend's dog is also in heat and guaranteed to be pregnant soon.

PAC will spay a pregnant female dog, so, wait until after your dog is out of heat (they cannot spay during the cycle as the dog bleeds more easily and could die during the op) then schedule her for an op. They have a vet onsite now. Since it is only one or two dogs that you are dealing with it shouldn't be any problem bringing them over the hill from TNP.

[sigistardust]

Humans are supposed to act responsibly. Dogs can’t. With the right to walk down the street and not be attacked by dogs, comes the responsibility to do something about it. Too many people today are bleating about their rights, but not interested when it comes to their responsibilities. I suspect many of these people end up in Thailand.

The reason the vets do not want to know about controlling the dog population is 1 they are hardened to seeing injured and sick animals, and 2 they are more concerned about the bad karma they will attract than the plight of yet more street dogs. It is purely a question of priorities. Etc...

you are right, We have to break this cycle of misery, what I have experienced in my 30 yrs of travl in Asia be it China Thai Indon. India Kathmandu, Egypt, its always the same, economics not enought money to feed their family and less for the animals, be it dogs cats or Horses ( as in Egypt) they are caring the brunt of this impact, also I find local people less compassionate towards the less privileged once animals or humans, I support SOS Children Villages and been able to check on them making sure my money is applied as it was said, to me this is a very legitt organisation founded years ago, {a german grouip,}.

But something has to be done with our Thai street dogs. perhaps your community can get together creating small "lighthauses" in whatever Island or town you live and started networking, since most of you have access to computer, if one "lighthause" is overwhelmed perhaps the other lighthouse is able to accomodate and so on, also as we did solicit tourists not just for money but tell them your goal, word to mouth helps perhap you come across a Vet vacationing ( thats happend in Bali 5 years back before the explosion?} or create a block and ask worldwide for help, many people would answer , especially if they know thier contribution is Really applied to the animal welfare, if it is more and more in the locals face and we speak up they wil llearm just like the Balinese people they even call now and report a mlangy dog to us, so that we can pick it up and cleant it and try to place it.often of course the dogs are running away and again on the street , often we pick up the same dog but he is better off in the long run, und not sick, since we would keep himfor a month, depends how much room we have, its not the best solution,. but less dogs are now pregnant and the Balines seem to keep their dog inside their compounds much more often, as a reward, we administer free parasit shots for their dogs and cats.checking on the locals once a month we are all doing it voluntaryly here in Bali I go 4days a week to find mangy dogs, my neighbor a artist and balines comes along to help us translate, its funny and perhaps the balines are diff. in their views, but more and more locals are getting involved, we even went to small county schools and talk to them about having a pet and friend, the kids are very open minded, our Asutralien Dr. is taking sometimes locals in the op room and let them watch the surgery he performs ( of course under steril conditions} make the community part of the plan,.

It sounds a ittle as a dream but there is always the first step to take, we have to start small, all of you are living in a diff. community or district. start with your neighborhood, rent a small place and accomodate some of the worst looking street dogs, if you have some $$ feed them for a while, there are first aid books, what to do with small wounds to keep them from spreading and sterilize them and provide some love and security for the little once, and females with littlers take them off the street etc, after a while ask someone for help in cleaning them and get the local acqainted with their dogs, since most Thais are so removed from animals that they are deadly scared of them when they even bark} just like here in Bali } a little money goes a long way,I dont know what your general situation is in Thailand financial speaking, we are working here at artists and selling to Tourists doing diff things, or selling our promjects to local Boutiques, having some small income and living much like local people here, not looking as if we are having lots of income, some of us are teaching privilegde children and adults engl., the Balinese people are integrating us much in their live, we are not called foreighners," they feel its their "Karma" to meet with us and helping us with thei animals and of course we also help with their issues, it "reduces"their "Karma" in this

Life, and I hope in our lives as well.

again one step in a time it will work, just need to focus and start small, perhaps with only with 2 or three dogs in a time in your neighborhood and start networking with each other have a comon cause it will work,.

I lik the idea with the tourist question card when departing Thailand, re the dogs and I am sure many many will voice their opinion, we are oftenreading articles in our travel section about Tourists are angered by the neglect of animals when returning from a Asia trip, thats one reason why so many of my friends just cannot stomach the sight it will just ruin their vacation, perhaps it can be puplished in one of the engl. speaking papers in Thailand?

Sigistardust

[Linisha]

Sigistardust, I totally agree with you. Very much could be done for the street dogs in Thailand. I think many times it's necessary to begin with volunteers and expats working for this. That way it get started and then hopefully the good effects make the society willing to support. It is often hard to sell something before the gain of it is obvious, and there is no better way to show the gain than to make people actually see and experience it. It seems that in Bali you have succeeded with this and thus the locals are becoming more and more supportive of the idea, great! You are so right that it is crucial to work with the local community. No project, government aided or not, can succeed if people doesn't get another attitude and action towards animals.

I like the idea of thinking and starting small. It is so easy to get paralysed by the scope of the "street dog problem". Easy to say that every effort is in vain if it doesn't have the potential to solve this problem. Of course to solve such a problem is not an easy thing and as have been commented in this topic, a real (fast) solution of this would take the government starting and financing such a project. So, since that is not likely to happen, then it's no use in doing anything because the problem can't be solved... But the street dog problem is only the general aspect of this. Individual dogs, sentient beings with the capacity to feel joy, pain end fear, can be helped and get better lifes (it is seeing this, a dog's joy over a home, that motivates me to be a "do-gooder") . Individual villages/areas can solve it's street dog problems and thus be more attractive for many western tourists.

This can be done with small scale projects. Good projects have a tendency to spread. For getting the necessary contact with the local community, which is a must to provide knowledge and influence attitudes, I think small scale, local projects (like yours in Bali) is the only way to go. (Though financial help shold most certainly be provided from government, in the best of world). Somebody coming from "above", killing or neutering the dogs might do a big and temporary difference. In the long run it is however attitudes and knowledge of the people in the community that will decide the future animal situation.

So, with many small scale projects (lighthouses was a good word), while Thailands street dog problem still is not solved - the escalating of the problem can in some places be a bit halted or even stopped. This is a large scale problem but it is the result of many small problems, the most important ones being inresposible people and lack of knowledge/wrong attitude towards animal keeping, neutering etc.

Soi Dog Rescue in Bangkok started a small clinic for neutering and emergency care last year. I am helping them with money whenever I can. I sell Thai products (accessories) here in Sweden and give about 10 % of the price of products to SDR and their neutering/vaccination program. Sensing that other people/companies are interested of doing something to help this kind of work too, I am starting a campaign this year, fundraising money for projects like SDR:s. The idea is that by getting companies to sponsor, the organizations helping the dogs will get a substantial amount of money that will make it possible to do so much more. One company will sponsor with enough money to spayabout 50 female dogs. Still very little in the large scope of the problem, but it will make individual difference at once, and maybe in the long run, even influence the "Problem". Check out SDR:s list of positive effects of neutering programs! http://www.soidogrescue.org/spay_neuter.html

[TAWP]

Neutering dogs on a mass-scale isn't possible at all.

Besides, it wouldn't do much difference in the long run anyway, since part of the problem is that the dogs usually got to be in the streets somehow - usually people that got tired of their cute puppy growing up to be a 1 year old rebel that eats through everything and still can't crap on command.

Been to markets too many times just to have one of my wifes friends or others pick up a 'cute puppy' for 500B.

And no, I wouldn't adopt a streetdog over any pedigree. It's just common sence: if I want to be able to raise kids in a (somewhat) safe enviroment I have to have confidence that the recently adopted street-dog isn't going to have mental problems as soon as it turns 3years old or such.

Mixed dogs increases the chances of unwanted behiavor in the bloodline.

And again, we have 36 dogs here, of which 35 are puppies left off on our grounds, so I think we do more then enough.

About time some other people took responsibility for the lives they put out in the streets and force upon others.

(And no, chip-markings wouldn't do any good, unfortuanly, since only pedigree-dogs would be marked, the whole big market with cheap dogs will still go on like usual. And dogs would continualy be kicked out into the street when people get bored of their new toy of flesh.)

Edited February 1, 2006 by TAWP

[elfe]

And no, I wouldn't adopt a streetdog over any pedigree. It's just common sence: if I want to be able to raise kids in a (somewhat) safe enviroment I have to have confidence that the recently adopted street-dog isn't going to have mental problems as soon as it turns 3years old or such.

Mixed dogs increases the chances of unwanted behiavor in the bloodline.

???

could you please elaborate on this one?

[TAWP]

As you might be well aware of(?), when breeding predigree-dogs you have a documented history with the dogs before the puppies and their merits, and that means you (or someone else) knows the mental status of those dogs. Often they have successfully fulfilled the mental test set out by kennel clubs.

When you have a mixed dog, found in your local newspaper in the sale-section, next to old cars and other items of reduced worth, you will have no record of any problems.

If you adopt a soi-dog you don't even have the fortune of seeing the parents of your dog, or a seller to talk to. You have a dog that for some reason is in the streets (most likely since it _didn't_ go well with the family that had it) and have absolutly no idea of it's current or future mental condition.

It's also no secret that all dogs change around 9-12 months of age and again (especially for males) at age of 3. And again if you spade them.

Can you predict how that little cute mixed soi-dog is going to be?

Edited February 1, 2006 by TAWP

[Kringle]

Spade or neuter them all and teach the Thais to start taking care of the dogs AFTER they have grown up, instead of just booting them out for the rest of us to have to put up with. Don't see them complain until these soi dogs attack them. Bloody nuts and ALL of the ones that are crippled and in pain should be rounded up and put outta their misery. Make laws (TAGS) that keep the bloody dogs in their OWNERS CARE and not on the street. If not tagged then picked up and given time to adopt and if no adoption, then put to sleep. Not healthy for anyone to have to live with all these buggers running around.

[elfe]

As you might be well aware of(?), when breeding predigree-dogs you have a documented history with the dogs before the puppies and their merits, and that means you (or someone else) knows the mental status of those dogs. Often they have successfully fulfilled the mental test set out by kennel clubs.

When you have a mixed dog, found in your local newspaper in the sale-section, next to old cars and other items of reduced worth, you will have no record of any problems.

If you adopt a soi-dog you don't even have the fortune of seeing the parents of your dog, or a seller to talk to. You have a dog that for some reason is in the streets (most likely since it _didn't_ go well with the family that had it) and have absolutly no idea of it's current or future mental condition.

It's also no secret that all dogs change around 9-12 months of age and again (especially for males) at age of 3. And again if you spade them.

Can you predict how that little cute mixed soi-dog is going to be?

do you live in thailand?

most of the streetdogs here never had a real home, they live and breed, as someone here on this forum said, like 'vermin', feeding on food which they find on the roads or leftovers people put outside. Some of them might be taken care of a bit when they were cute puppies. Most dogs though belong to certain houses where they get scraps to feed on and are tolerated and sometimes even liked by the 'owners'. But they let them move freely, it's too much work to watch them or take over responsibilities. Mostly only pedigree dogs are cared for well because they are not for free and it's a prestige thing as well. Most people I meet here tell me what a lovely, kind and calm personality these thai dogs have compared to their pedigree dogs at home. A street dog which becomes aggressive towards humans won't see another day here in thailand in most cases. Their genes are still strong and healthy and if you take care a little the dog will reach high age.

Every dog has a different personality, be it pedigree or mix, you can never predict, even if the bloodline seems perfect. of course there are differences in different breeds but you can find any characteristics in any breed, depending on the individual personality. the main thing is how the dog is raised, treated and trained. especially the first 4 months are crucial, experiences made then, the dog will never forget and it's sometimes difficult to overcome behaviour resulting from bad experiende in that phase through training.

All my dogs are thai mixes rescued from the street or 'pure breeds' thrown away or neglected by their former owners. they are of all ages and all live together with us and none of them has become a problem with behaviour so far.

here you can have a look of them: http://asia.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/elfecruise/my_photos

[girlx]

PAC will spay a pregnant female dog, so, wait until after your dog is out of heat (they cannot spay during the cycle as the dog bleeds more easily and could die during the op) then schedule her for an op. They have a vet onsite now. Since it is only one or two dogs that you are dealing with it shouldn't be any problem bringing them over the hill from TNP.

i contacted PAC before her heat and had an appointment, but i can't get taxi drivers to take her there because they vomit in the car on the bad road. so, asked them to come here if i paid for them, but no dice. i am willing to bet she is pregnant now, there is just no way to keep her away from the dozens of other dogs and she was raped about 15 times a day in the past two weeks (and i was almost attacked twice for trying to stop them). is it possible to induce an abortion in a dog in the early stages? i think that's better than poisoning the pups! in this village, it would really be out of my hands anyway. i would love to start a clinic here, i just don't have the knowledge and no one else here seems to sympathize. any advice appreciated...

[elfe]

responsible dog owners neuter their dogs in time or lock them away in the heat

it's actually only a few days while they can get pregnant

[girlx]

responsible dog owners neuter their dogs in time

impossible where i live

[TAWP]

do you live in thailand?

If you read my post you would already know that I live here and that I also have to take care of 36 dogs (35 adopted, 1 is my own), since so many thai's unfortuanly don't.

Out of the 35 dogs, 32 (if memoery serves me right) are dogs where the owners left the puppies/young dogs on our land/besides our land and hoped we would take mercy, something they didn't have. (If they had, they would atleast contacted us and/or made sure they found their way to our care, and not hoped they just might. We don't know how many of the dogs around that was dogs just left without anyone first finding them and taking them into mercy. Too many I'm sure.)

Don't forget that the street besides our land is low-income-street, but most familys have one or several dogs 'around'. Meaning, they live and eat with a family, but run as they wish. Which also isn't the best when one is walking with two foodbags home and one of them for some reason doesn't like the smell of farangs.

Could write an essey of this, but I wont.