Thailand Mulls Barter Trade With Sanctioned Iran

[jcw]

The price can not be 15,000 Baht per ton. This is the amount to be paid to the farmer. It does not include the transportation, warehousing, processing, the profit % paid to each level of the process + the 7% VAT at each stage.

After a bit of research on the open market currently around US$ 550/ton...

But the Thai Gov say it will be $660 Next year, they are going to manipulate the world price of rice apparently with their own illegal cartel....

This week the Thai government has announced it is to form a regional cartel with other countries that produce rice. Vietnam who exported more rice than Thailand this year, Laos, Myanmar, Cambodia and Thailand are officially joining the regional alliance who believe they can manipulate the prices to increase 10% annually. An agreement is expected to be signed by each governments trade ministers before the end of 2012, the cartel is planned to be called,”ASEAN Rice Federation” said Mr. Yanyong Phuangrach, the Thai commerce permanent secretary.

He believes, “A 10% rise in price each year is acceptable I will not have a significant effect on consumers”. In its own right, his statement and belief is bizarre at best. Firstly, ignoring what ASEAN is all about and the fact that ASEAN members Philippines and Indonesia who are major rice consumers which this cartel which believes they can drive up the world’s rice price by 10% a year with no negative impact does not have India or America on board. more continued ........

[pkspeaker]

well that's what you say.. and similar rhetoric from many sources in the west.. but the fact is they have a parliament full off elected officials including jews and christians..they pass budgets, laws, just like any other parliament.. Ahmnadinijad is elected despite a contested election, and, other parties represented in the parliment have won before... insisting that there's this boggeyman internal security apparatus that has everyone shaking in fear.. well that can be said from the outside- about any other democracy..and then transperancy arguments..we have seen many demonstrations in iran, some have turned violent with riot police called out.. but that's riot police not army shooting live rounds..if there is an unjustly banned political group in iran; and one that polls or intelligence shows massive support for, i see no reason why it wouldn't be represented in national parliament..

OK the GAYPRIDE Party probably won't be listed there, neither will the FOXNEWS Party..but neither of those contenders has any real support in iran.. lets see some real proof that ahmnadinijad didn't really get more than half the votes last time and that the looser didn't really get slightly less-and that was the guy that was considered more 'liberal' .. so if your an iranian and wanted a more liberal directon in the last election, you had it.. under threats of attack and invasions of their nieghbors - they decided to stick with the more 'conservative' option.

Iran manufactures earth orbiting rockets, subs, aircraft, cars, centrifuges.. it is impossible to know their technological agenda.. the fact that there is so much war and distruction in that part of the world and that the west is committed to the downfall of their regime to the extent that they will starve millions of their people like they did in iraq prior to the destruction of that country by military invasion is not going to make the Iranians feel more secure to the point where they will open up every facility in that country to open inspections, especially when Israel will not be doing the same thing or even consider nuclear disarmanent.

Note that Iran has a parliament and elections, (a dictatorship is usually one of the excuses for western policies) but the US still wants the regime to be changed wholesale-rather than simply requesting more liberalism and transperancy in the current democratic system in iran.

given that environment the west can encourage these countries note to go nuclear-which is best done by example--but here the US decides on an extreme double-standard where israel and pakistan get foreign aid and iran gets starvation.

Regardless of anyones opinion of USA, Iran is still a totalitarian controlled theocracy

with a rough semblance of a parliament, but in name only. Which is controlled from the top.

And the Revolutionary Guards seeking to control all dissent in usually quite violent ways.

And hardliners who have no issues with calling for the destruction of Israel,

and the backing of terrorism world wide against any that do not support their Theocratic aims.

There are of course zealots in other religions and sects, but most are not close to controlling

the bomb and actively making threats to use it.

Edited August 29, 2012 by pkspeaker

[geriatrickid]

I don't know whether to laugh or to feel sorry for someone that posts a gem like the above post lauding the presence of "jews & christians" in the Iranian parliament, and claiming it speaks to the Iranians openess. The fact is that both of the aforementioned are persecuted and neither is allowed to leave the country. The last election was a sham and failed the test for transparency and integrity. Opposition candidates were beaten and prevented from campaigning. The reality is that Iran is a dictatorship run by the mullahs that has sought to sow war in the Gulf states, has interfered in Iraq, has provided support to Syria and funds international terrorism. Iran is anything but a peaceful state. It has been able to get away with its behaviour for so long because of its oil.Korea and India rushed in to buy the oil when the EU imposed sanctions. Even China has sought to avoid purchasing Iranian oil. And now Thailand wants the Iranian oil. India is a nation of no scruples and it demonstrated its moral character when it busted international sanctions in Myanmar. It appears that Thailand is following the Indian example.

There is a cost to circumventing sanctions and the Indians are finding out as the countries it relies on for trade are expressing their disapproval. Thailand may not think it will suffer the consequences, but it will.

[Jingthing]

India has a lot more power internationally than Thailand, not to mention ... nukes.

[johna]

What is forgotten in all this talk of sanctions is the fact that Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program, both the CIA and Mossad agree on that,

How do you know ? are you CIA/Mossad or ex-SAS ?....From my understanding they do have a weapons program but as of yet they havent made any weapons...

Google the subject.

Its not a secret, US and Israeli intelligence people have said so in public, but for the war mongers in Israel its WMD WMD WMD

[animatic]

well that's what you say.. and similar rhetoric from many sources in the west.. but the fact is they have a parliament full off elected officials including jews and christians..they pass budgets, laws, just like any other parliament.. Ahmnadinijad is elected despite a contested election, and, other parties represented in the parliment have won before... insisting that there's this boggeyman internal security apparatus that has everyone shaking in fear.. well that can be said from the outside- about any other democracy..and then transperancy arguments..we have seen many demonstrations in iran, some have turned violent with riot police called out.. but that's riot police not army shooting live rounds..if there is an unjustly banned political group in iran; and one that polls or intelligence shows massive support for, i see no reason why it wouldn't be represented in national parliament..

OK the GAYPRIDE Party probably won't be listed there, neither will the FOXNEWS Party..but neither of those contenders has any real support in iran.. lets see some real proof that ahmnadinijad didn't really get more than half the votes last time and that the looser didn't really get slightly less-and that was the guy that was considered more 'liberal' .. so if your an iranian and wanted a more liberal directon in the last election, you had it.. under threats of attack and invasions of their nieghbors - they decided to stick with the more 'conservative' option.

Iran manufactures earth orbiting rockets, subs, aircraft, cars, centrifuges.. it is impossible to know their technological agenda.. the fact that there is so much war and distruction in that part of the world and that the west is committed to the downfall of their regime to the extent that they will starve millions of their people like they did in iraq prior to the destruction of that country by military invasion is not going to make the Iranians feel more secure to the point where they will open up every facility in that country to open inspections, especially when Israel will not be doing the same thing or even consider nuclear disarmanent.

Note that Iran has a parliament and elections, (a dictatorship is usually one of the excuses for western policies) but the US still wants the regime to be changed wholesale-rather than simply requesting more liberalism and transperancy in the current democratic system in iran.

given that environment the west can encourage these countries note to go nuclear-which is best done by example--but here the US decides on an extreme double-standard where israel and pakistan get foreign aid and iran gets starvation.

Regardless of anyones opinion of USA, Iran is still a totalitarian controlled theocracy

with a rough semblance of a parliament, but in name only. Which is controlled from the top.

And the Revolutionary Guards seeking to control all dissent in usually quite violent ways.

And hardliners who have no issues with calling for the destruction of Israel,

and the backing of terrorism world wide against any that do not support their Theocratic aims.

There are of course zealots in other religions and sects, but most are not close to controlling

the bomb and actively making threats to use it.

Believe what you like,

I have heard this DIRECTLY from several average non-activist Irainians.

From the horses mouth.

[MaiChai]

Would want ethics and morality to get in the way of good business, eh?

[simple1]

Would want ethics and morality to get in the way of good business, eh?

I am not a supporter of the Iranian regime, but is it ethical and moral to withhold access to imported food stock for the Iranian people for political purposes.

[pkspeaker]

well whatever it is; and how much external pressure is being brought, especially when foreign democracy activists in these me countries are based in the west, bringing suspicions that the foreign activists are foreign agents and the like.. and it has to be considered along with the other nuclear weaponized regimes in the ME.. Pakistans Democracy, Israel's Democracy, and Iran is supposedly the only country that has human rights issues.

The question is should it be singled out just because the us and israel demands extreme sanctions when the last time the US did something like this it ended in many iraqi deaths..they can sanction unilaterally but don't come to countries like Thailand and demand that it not ship rice to poor hungry people..

[BuffaloRescue]

This is exacty what the US does not want. The sanctions are in place because Iran has threatened to do oil deals in "currencies" other that the USD. These middle eastern "wars" are all about protecting the petro-dollar. US will not happy about this! This wont happen anyway, US relations are far too important for Thailand. This is a direct statement of indignance to the US. What is the point of it, I thought Thailand was trying to strengthen ties with the US.

Edited August 30, 2012 by BuffaloRescue

[marshbags]

Would want ethics and morality to get in the way of good business, eh?

I am not a supporter of the Iranian regime, but is it ethical and moral to withhold access to imported food stock for the Iranian people for political purposes.

Surely the responsiblity of the sanctions lies with the powers that be in Iran.

They can at any time hold serious discussions with those concerned about it,s nuclear progammes, find consensual agreement on the issue and make a genuine effort to satisfy what is being requested.

If they have nothing to hide then I cannot see why they are unco-operative especially when as you rightly point out from an ethical point of view, the less priviliged / poor are being made to suffer.

I do not in any way wish to go down the political road and also think it is morally wrong but until a way is found to satisfy the reasons for the sanctions their seems to be no choice.

Should Iran be developing nuclear fuel for reasons other than domestic purposes imagine what the potential in loss of human life and the collateral consequences could / would be.

Nuclear fuel in the hands of irresponsible countries who do not GAF about the consequences of using it for war ect. ect. cannot be allowed anywhere in the civilised world.

Thailand wiil, no matter if they carry out this proposed agreement or wisely decide not to, further tarnish their reputation as a government and the country has been once again undermind with the US in particular and their ethical standards brought into question yet again.

Sadly it is what we have come to expect from a party who,s integrity is non existant and until they sever connections with the person running the country in voluntary exile to escape justice can never be otherwise.

Yingluk could become a decent and respected PM in her own right if she would surround herself with people who genuinely put the country and ALL it,s citizens first, extradite Thaksin to face justice and forget about whitewashing his and others crimes via rewriting the constitution as per his wishes ect. ect. and make him lawfully free of all indiscretions.

IMHO as always.

marshbags

Edited August 30, 2012 by marshbags

[ttelise]

Would want ethics and morality to get in the way of good business, eh?

I am not a supporter of the Iranian regime, but is it ethical and moral to withhold access to imported food stock for the Iranian people for political purposes.

Well give them the dam_n rice for free if you or Thailand are such a humanitarian. The problem is not giving them rice. The problem is taking their oil for cheap prices ocassioned by sacrifices of other nations to impose sanctions. The crux of this is Thailand does not care about hungry people. Thailand wants cheap oil so playing that card is disingenuous.

[pkspeaker]

It's naive to think any amount of inspections/ controls will satisfy the US/Israeli agenda-which is always regime change..

lets not forget that just prior to the Iraq war-Saddam threw up his hands several weeks before the invasion started--UN inspectors were allowed free access to EVERY site ANYWHERE in the country.. and the UN started doing it everyday they were inspecting constantly just a couple weeks before the invasion--issue should have been solved but the US STILL insisted Iraq was hiding something, somewhere..1st they made up this crap about 'mobile' chemical weapons facilities-that was a lie, at one point they complained that a site wasn't inspected-it was in the kurdish controlled north of the country! absolutely ridiculous and they invaded anyways even though the WMD issue had been thoroughly dismissed as unrealistic--either iraq had 'very little' chemical weapons, or they had none--NO WAY was the country a threat to anyone

didn't matter the US invaded anyways because their real goal was regime change-even at the expense of millions of iraqis, not WMD disarmament..

Now marchbags actually thinks the US is serious about nuclear disarmament--THEY ARE NOT, this whole thing is just an excuse to attack a country they have ideological differences with.

[Soutpeel]

THEY ARE NOT, this whole thing is just an excuse to attack a country they have ideological differences with.

Are you sure it not about the oil again ?...

[marshbags]

" Now marchbags actually thinks the US is serious about nuclear disarmament--THEY ARE NOT, this whole thing is just an excuse to attack a country they have ideological differences with."

A part quote taken from PK's post for brevity.

..............................................................................

Nothing personal PK but your assessment is miles away from my personal thoughts on the US's ideology.

I do not and have not indicated that this is soley voicing Amercan intent, it is as you will appreciate a collective concern of many responsible countries.

I merely referred to the US by name as this is pertinent to the Thai / US relationship / this threads content and it,s possible far reaching consequences in many other places.

I personaly think the US have also much to answer for in relation to self opinion, self interest and sometimes arrogant attitude towards those who do not support them.

I could name a few examples but this is against forum rules and way off topic in this instance.

Diplomacy is obviously seen by many as one way interpretation of it,s meaning US style, forcefully voiced at times with messages that can be interpretted as non diplomatic and at the very least threatening.

marshbags ( aka marchbags )

Edited August 30, 2012 by marshbags

[KeyserSoze01]

Would Iran be nice enough to include in the deal not sending terrorists to carry out bombings in Thailand never, ever again?

Saudi Arabia is the country that sponsors the terrorists, not Iran.

Iran is the country with the uranium enrichment.

Oh really? How about the Iranian stooges that attempted the bombing attack in Bangkok just a few months ago?

[KeyserSoze01]

I would wait until all the wars in that region have finished.

Some time in the next century then.

[KeyserSoze01]

All of this rhetoric about trade with Iran is for naught, as the Israelis have stated that they are going to attack Iran prior to the US elections in November. Couple that with the fact that Turkey is massing troops on the border with Syria and you have a recipe for WW3 as the Ruskies and Chinese will be at odds with the US and NATO. If that happens, all bets are off.

[Bagwan]

Err im not sure if your all hung over but.. Iranians eat rice last time i checked.

Flied lice? It's fried rice, you plick!!!

Ever hear of Dr. Spooner?

[simple1]

Would want ethics and morality to get in the way of good business, eh?

I am not a supporter of the Iranian regime, but is it ethical and moral to withhold access to imported food stock for the Iranian people for political purposes.

Well give them the dam_n rice for free if you or Thailand are such a humanitarian. The problem is not giving them rice. The problem is taking their oil for cheap prices ocassioned by sacrifices of other nations to impose sanctions. The crux of this is Thailand does not care about hungry people. Thailand wants cheap oil so playing that card is disingenuous.

And you know the terms for the proposed barter?

[ttelise]

It's naive to think any amount of inspections/ controls will satisfy the US/Israeli agenda-which is always regime change..

lets not forget that just prior to the Iraq war-Saddam threw up his hands several weeks before the invasion started--UN inspectors were allowed free access to EVERY site ANYWHERE in the country.. and the UN started doing it everyday they were inspecting constantly just a couple weeks before the invasion--issue should have been solved but the US STILL insisted Iraq was hiding something, somewhere..1st they made up this crap about 'mobile' chemical weapons facilities-that was a lie, at one point they complained that a site wasn't inspected-it was in the kurdish controlled north of the country! absolutely ridiculous and they invaded anyways even though the WMD issue had been thoroughly dismissed as unrealistic--either iraq had 'very little' chemical weapons, or they had none--NO WAY was the country a threat to anyone

didn't matter the US invaded anyways because their real goal was regime change-even at the expense of millions of iraqis, not WMD disarmament..

Now marchbags actually thinks the US is serious about nuclear disarmament--THEY ARE NOT, this whole thing is just an excuse to attack a country they have ideological differences with.

I will agree with you on Iraq. That was purely personal driven by a very small man, intelligence wise, placed into office by our religious zealots. Bush and his staff has done more harm to this country can undue in a 100 years.

I don't agree with your assessment of Iran and the last US wants us another war with any country over there. Ecomomic sanctions are entirely appropriate under circumstances. No one able to get in control of the white house for at least four more years in dumb enough to pull a Bush junior and invade Iran. US wants out of that area, but we are afraid if we leave everything will destabilize.

And yes, it is US's fault, thanks to junior, that things are so unstable in Iraq and Afghanastan. US just keeps money into a black hole to try and do the right thing now that we mucked it up so bad.

Edited August 31, 2012 by ttelise

[ttelise]

Would want ethics and morality to get in the way of good business, eh?

I am not a supporter of the Iranian regime, but is it ethical and moral to withhold access to imported food stock for the Iranian people for political purposes.

Well give them the dam_n rice for free if you or Thailand are such a humanitarian. The problem is not giving them rice. The problem is taking their oil for cheap prices ocassioned by sacrifices of other nations to impose sanctions. The crux of this is Thailand does not care about hungry people. Thailand wants cheap oil so playing that card is disingenuous.

And you know the terms for the proposed barter?

That makes zero sense. Just give them the rice. No barter, no sale, NOTHING in return. Otherwise, stop with the bleeding heart humanitarian crap. Neither you nor Thailand give a rats arse about Iran. Your rhetoric is premises more on your feeling toward US and wanting cheap oil for your car. This has nothing to do with hungry children so playing that card is pretty low.

[simple1]

@ttelise - You sure are a tough guy. You seem to have forgotten the recent attempts by the Iranian people for an Arab Spring that was brutally suppressed. Maybe the US can make a gesture of support for the Iranian people to acquire the rice from Thailand and send to Iran. Just as the US/UN shipped food to North Korea, another member of the "axis of evil". I've posted below some URLs that do talk to food shortages in Iran. I'll ignore the BS posted about my wanting cheap energy etc.

http://www.csmonitor...and-cooking-oil

http://www.tumblr.co...n-food-shortage

http://observers.fra...e-reduced-froze

Edited August 31, 2012 by simple1

[ttelise]

@ttelise - You sure are a tough guy. You seem to have forgotten the recent attempts by the Iranian people for an Arab Spring that was brutally suppressed. Maybe the US can make a gesture of support for the Iranian people to acquire the rice from Thailand and send to Iran. Just as the US/UN shipped food to North Korea, another member of the "axis of evil". I've posted below some URLs that do talk to food shortages in Iran. I'll ignore the BS posted about my wanting cheap energy etc.

http://www.csmonitor...and-cooking-oil

http://www.tumblr.co...n-food-shortage

http://observers.fra...e-reduced-froze

Really not trying to be. I get people don't like US, envy US, resent US, and think US is a bully. US certainly has it faults, but US generally treats its citizens and allies better than the Countries many on here would have Thailand align.

US usually comes to the assistance of Countries in need and frankly, US has many debt problems right now from trying to do too much for Countries, like Thailand, that generally do not appreciate the same.

I have no issues with Countries helping other Countries. US sends money and food all over the world almost to the point of neglecting those at home. Why can't Thailand step up and do something good for a change without expecting something in return.

Are you suggesting that US should give Thailand money for Thailand's rice and then send the rice to Iran. More Thailand seeking handout mentaility. No. We do enough.

It is Thailand's government saying they need to act benevolently and send rice to the starving children of Iran. So either they are lying about the need or really have ulterior motives and could care less about the starving children.

Edited August 31, 2012 by ttelise

[simple1]

@ttelise Personally I would assume the Thai government is using the proposed trade for commerce, not for humanitarian reasons. Perhaps their is also some behind the scene diplomatic drivers as the Thai government appears to desire closer relations with Islamic countries. If the trade does go ahead hopefully the rice will be used for the people of Iran (good), not just stockpiled for the military.

[rubl]

Latest news:

Thailand considers trading water for oil! New opportunities opened.

"Ahmadinejad says enemies destroy Iran's rain clouds -reports

(Reuters) - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has accused his country's enemies of enacting a sinister plan to create a drought by somehow destroying the rain clouds before they reach Iran, several Iranian websites reported on Tuesday."

http://www.reuters.c...E8KBKQX20120911