Settlement In Uk , Questions About New Financial Requirements Savings Level ?

[matsky13]

Can anybody clear up a few questions , I am thinking about applying for settlement Visa for my fiance , she has just had a 6 month visitor visa and we are now planning to marry , Not made the plans just yet , I wonder if anyone can advise as the best place to marry ,either here in the uk or out in Thailand ??

She has returned to Thailand and is now in the early stages of pregnancy she wants to have the baby over there with her family and health care she can afford . I will meet up with her later this year and be around for the birth in Thailand .So I am looking ahead as to the hurdles i will have to jump . But I am very worried that I may be becoming a farther for the first time and I may not be able to spend my life with my baby and wife , Its getting me realy worried !!!!

Once married We would like to settle in the uk , but the new financial requirements may be a problem , over the last few years i have been spending 3 and four months in Thailand , i am self employed but only working for 8 months of the year. The 18,600 or nearly 25k as my fiance will have 2 children , will be difficult if not impossible to achieve if i continue to spend long periods not working. Even if i worked 12 months here i still maybe short of the earnings threshold, so i was wondering about the savings route. I have read 16,500 pounds on the UKBA website . but i have read on some posts here about a figure of 62000K . what is the true figure and how long would i need to have the amount just sat in a bank account ??

Any advice will be appreciated .

[VisasPlus]

For the savings route, you only have to show financial support for your wife and any non-British children. I assume that your baby when born will be British ? If so, then it will be your wife and one child to take into account. The savings requirement will be 72,000 GBP. It needs to have been "under your control" in a recognised financial institution for at least 6 months.

If you want to go down the self employed route, then you will need a lot of evidence. many self employed sponsors will now find themselves unable to qualify as sponsors as they will be unable to show such things as audited accounts, tax returns, etc. UKBA have made it almost impossible for the "cash in hand " self employed to qualify as sponsors. If you have a limited company, then the requirements are slightly different, but just as tough. The full list of requirements for partners, sole traders and franchisers ( and all documents must be produced ) is :

In respect of self-employment in the UK as a partner, as a sole trader or in a franchise all of the following must be provided:

(a) Evidence of the amount of tax payable, paid and unpaid for the last financial year.

( b ) The latest:

(i) annual self-assessment tax return to HMRC;

(ii) Statement of Account (SA300 or SA302); and,

(iii) the same for the previous financial year if the latest return does not show the necessary level of gross income, but the average of the last 2 financial years does.

( c ) Proof of registration with HMRC as self-employed. This evidence must be either an original or a certified copy of the registration documentation issued by HMRC.

(d) Each partner's Unique Tax Reference Number (UTR) and/or the UTR of the partnership or business.

(e) Where the person holds or held a separate business bank account(s), monthly bank statements for the same 12-month period as the tax return(s).

(f) Monthly personal bank statements for the same 12-month period as the tax return(s) showing that the income from self-employment has been paid into an account in the name of the person or in the name of the person and their partner jointly.

(g) Evidence of ongoing self-employment through:

(i) evidence of payment of Class 2 National Insurance contributions (for self-employed persons); or,

(ii) current Appointment Reports from Companies House (for Directors).

(h) One of the following documents must also be submitted:

(i) The organisation's latest annual audited accounts with:

(1) the name of the accountant clearly shown; and,

(2) the accountant must be a member of an accredited accounting body;

(ii) A certificate of VAT registration and the latest VAT return confirming the VAT registration number, if turnover is in excess of £73,000;

(iii) Evidence to show appropriate planning permission or local planning authority consent is held to operate the type/class of business at the trading address (where this is a local authority requirement); or

(iv) A franchise agreement signed by both parties.

(i) The document referred to in paragraph 6(h)(iv) must be provided if the organisation is a franchise.

Edit: By the way, you cannot mix savings and self employed income to meet the financial requirement. In some categories, for instance salaried employment, you can mix income and savings to make up the full requirement, but not in this case.

Edited August 29, 2012 by VisasPlus

[matsky13]

Visa Plus I am totaly shocked and baffled by this figure of 72000 Pounds I have cut and pasted some of the UKBA section FM1.7 that I thought was relevent .Clearly saying 16000 pounds as a figure excluding someone from accessing public funds .

I cannot imagine why you would require 720000 pounds in the bank to support a person and not become a burden on the state .

a baby born in Thailand would be Thai I thought ?? so i would be applying for a wife and 2 children ?

I am must be missing some realy key points here , and am now totaly worried ,

1.2 Background

The family migration consultation conducted in 2011 proposed that the level of income for those sponsoring a non-EEA partner should represent what is needed to support them at a reasonable level that helps to ensure that they do not become a burden on the taxpayer and allows sufficient participation in everyday life to facilitate integration.

The new financial requirement reflects the level of income at which a couple, taking account of the number of children they have, generally cease to be able to access income-related benefits. This means that financially they can support themselves and the migrant’s integration without becoming a burden on the taxpayer.

2.

Key operating principles of the financial requirement

The previous maintenance requirement for family members has been replaced by the new financial requirement under Appendix FM.

i.

Applicants must meet the minimum gross annual income of £18,600 (or the relevant higher figure where a child or children are also being sponsored).

ii.

This can include the employment income of the applicant’s partner and the applicant (excluding the applicant’s at the entry clearance stage) and the non-employment and pension income, and income from certain contributory benefits, of the applicant’s partner and the applicant.

iii.

Cash savings above £16,000 (the level generally disqualifying a person from income-related benefits) can be used to meet all or part of the financial requirement, if they have been held by the applicant’s partner or the applicant for at least 6 months prior to the application and are under their control. The cash savings can have originated from a third party as a gift, but they must not be a loan.

iv.

Promises of support from a third party cannot be counted towards the financial requirement. The applicant and their partner must have the required resources under their own control, not somebody else’s. Promises of support from a third party are vulnerable to a change in that person’s circumstances or in the applicant’s or partner’s relationship with them.

v.

The applicant has to demonstrate and evidence the income/savings required to meet the financial requirement applicable to their application. They do not need to provide information in the first instance about any income/savings which they and/or the partner may have beyond this. However, caseworkers may request further information and evidence where they have concerns about the credibility of the application or supporting evidence submitted with it.

[VisasPlus]

Visa Plus I am totaly shocked and baffled by this figure of 72000 Pounds I have cut and pasted some of the UKBA section FM1.7 that I thought was relevent .Clearly saying 16000 pounds as a figure excluding someone from accessing public funds .

I cannot imagine why you would require 720000 pounds in the bank to support a person and not become a burden on the state .

a baby born in Thailand would be Thai I thought ?? so i would be applying for a wife and 2 children ?

I am must be missing some realy key points here , and am now totaly worried ,

1.2 Background

The family migration consultation conducted in 2011 proposed that the level of income for those sponsoring a non-EEA partner should represent what is needed to support them at a reasonable level that helps to ensure that they do not become a burden on the taxpayer and allows sufficient participation in everyday life to facilitate integration.

The new financial requirement reflects the level of income at which a couple, taking account of the number of children they have, generally cease to be able to access income-related benefits. This means that financially they can support themselves and the migrant’s integration without becoming a burden on the taxpayer.

2.

Key operating principles of the financial requirement

The previous maintenance requirement for family members has been replaced by the new financial requirement under Appendix FM.

i.

Applicants must meet the minimum gross annual income of £18,600 (or the relevant higher figure where a child or children are also being sponsored).

ii.

This can include the employment income of the applicant’s partner and the applicant (excluding the applicant’s at the entry clearance stage) and the non-employment and pension income, and income from certain contributory benefits, of the applicant’s partner and the applicant.

iii.

Cash savings above £16,000 (the level generally disqualifying a person from income-related benefits) can be used to meet all or part of the financial requirement, if they have been held by the applicant’s partner or the applicant for at least 6 months prior to the application and are under their control. The cash savings can have originated from a third party as a gift, but they must not be a loan.

iv.

Promises of support from a third party cannot be counted towards the financial requirement. The applicant and their partner must have the required resources under their own control, not somebody else’s. Promises of support from a third party are vulnerable to a change in that person’s circumstances or in the applicant’s or partner’s relationship with them.

v.

The applicant has to demonstrate and evidence the income/savings required to meet the financial requirement applicable to their application. They do not need to provide information in the first instance about any income/savings which they and/or the partner may have beyond this. However, caseworkers may request further information and evidence where they have concerns about the credibility of the application or supporting evidence submitted with it.

It is complicated. Basically, you can meet the financial requirement by income from salaried employment or from self employment, or from savings. If you have no income at all, then you require 62,500 GBP in savings ( to sponsor a spouse). In some cases, for example salaried employment, you can combine the minimum salary requirement with savings, but you cannot do this if you are self employed.

The amount of savings required is worked out by a formula. Basically, it is the 16,000 you mention plus the difference between your income and the financial requirement of 18,600 multiplied by 2.5. So, if you had no income at all, the difference between your income and the 18,600 minimum income is the full 18,600. Multiply this by 2.5, equals 46,500. Then add the government's assessed minimum savings of 16,000, and that equals the 62,500. For one child to be added the minimum financial requirement goes up to 22,400, and the same calculation formula is used, giving the 72,000 saving requirement.

If the child is yours ( you are shown on the birth certificate as the father ), and you are a British citizen, then the child is probably entitled to a British passport. No need for a visa, and no need to be added into the financial calculation.

[7by7]

Regarding whether or not your child is British, rather than retype the full explanation here, I refer you to the first part of British Citizenship Basics.

You may also find UK Settlement Visa Basics helpful.

UKBA have made it almost impossible for the "cash in hand " self employed to qualify as sponsors.

You are aware, I trust, of my opinion of the new financial requirements (way too high) and I agree that, even for a legitimate self employed person, the required evidence may be difficult to provide. When I was self employed, for example, I did not have audited accounts; I did them myself. I did have, for example, an annual SA statement and evidence of making class 2 contributions, though.

If people cannot show they meet the financial requirement simply because they have not been declaring all their income to HMRC then I, for one, have no sympathy for them.

I am, of course, making a general comment and not implying anything about the OP.

[matsky13]

the gun is pointed at your head and i am about to pull the trigger , then i remembered "dont shoot the messenger ".

seriousley thanks for your reply , I have been trying to make sense of the ukba website for a long tme , I am British and I consider myself reasonably inteligent , but there FM1.7 does not explain this proparly at all, as you say multiplying the figure above the 16k I can see where you get the larger amount from but it actualy says the amount should be divided by 2.5 .

Anyway the way you explain it i can begin to understand where the figures come from . Maybe they should offer you or someone like you to work for them .and print there forms in plain English .

I can't see these new rules being inforce for too long . Its a total joke . for myself I could meet the required savings level , if I sell my home and then take out a mortgage on a new one . I would go from being financialy secure with a home and no debt having worked at the same employment for more than 20 years never been in receipt of a single penny of public funds . and a modest saving level ... to being in debt to a bank with another property that if things keep on the way they are going into negative equity. Is this how things should be ??...

I am fully supportive of changes to strengthen the imigration law if it stops people comming to the UK and being a drain on public funds , But I cant see how having 72 thousand pounds sat in a bank account helps ?? and the 18600 earnings figure as has been said already is very unfair for anyone who doesnt live in the greater London area . surely income and expenditure is a more usefull tool to work out if someone is likely to be a drain on public funds . All i can do now is get in contact with my MP and add my voice to the outrage .

I like many others are now wondering what will happen to my future family , a baby being born unable to live with both parents , not for real economic reasons but because of rightwing Knee jerk policy.

[RAZZELL]

OP - I don't understand your first post?

"The 18,600 or nearly 25k as my fiance will have 2 children , will be difficult if not impossible to achieve if i continue to spend long periods not working."

So are you saying your gf has a child already and will then have your child?

RAZZ

Edited August 29, 2012 by RAZZELL

[matsky13]

Yes Razzle thats the situation at the moment she has a child (not mine) and we now have a bun in the oven as they say, why wht where you thinking ?

7 by 7 I am also fully suportive of money undeclared or earnt illeagaly .not being used . thats just plain common sense! and i understand you are not refering to me , .I have read lots of our posts and you seem to be realy well informed on lots of visa advice so i will take this oportunity to thank you for your imput all over this forum .you are a real star !

As i already said i can see the reason we need strong imigration policy , but it just seems very unfair . its not a new topic i know but it realy is outragous..

Edited August 29, 2012 by matsky13

[SunsetT]

I could be in a similar situation soon, possibly marrying my Thai girlfriend of 7 yrs who has 1 child of 9yrs and a teenager of 18yrs. I could probably just scrape in on the savings, but can anyone please tell me what income level would then be required on top of the £72000? I presume the UKBA would accept a settlement application for just the younger child and not the teenager who wants to stay in Thailand anyway. Most of my UK income is classified as 'Land and Property', which is from UK rented property, A small very element of my income is classified as 'Self-Employed', but this will probably cease very soon, so my only income will then be from L & P. Also is there any ongoing monitoring of the £72000 savings once the settlement visa has been granted? I am 60 yrs old and lucky to have no real pressure on where we live, but I really sympathise with you Matsky13 trying to do the right thing and finding yourself in such a difficult situation. I wish you good luck for your family's future.

[VisasPlus]

I could be in a similar situation soon, possibly marrying my Thai girlfriend of 7 yrs who has 1 child of 9yrs and a teenager of 18yrs. I could probably just scrape in on the savings, but can anyone please tell me what income level would then be required on top of the £72000? I presume the UKBA would accept a settlement application for just the younger child and not the teenager who wants to stay in Thailand anyway. Most of my UK income is classified as 'Land and Property', which is from UK rented property, A small very element of my income is classified as 'Self-Employed', but this will probably cease very soon, so my only income will then be from L & P. Also is there any ongoing monitoring of the £72000 savings once the settlement visa has been granted? I am 60 yrs old and lucky to have no real pressure on where we live, but I really sympathise with you Matsky13 trying to do the right thing and finding yourself in such a difficult situation. I wish you good luck for your family's future.

If you meet the savings requirement ( 72,000 GBP for wife and one child in savings for at least 6 months, etc) then that is all you need. There is no additional income required. It's pretty nonsensical really as, as soon as your wife has the visa, you can blow the savings on a new Porsche Boxster if you want. Where's the logic in all of this ? You will, of course, have to meet the financial requirement again at the Further Leave to remain stage after 30 months in the UK, and later at the ILR stage too.

[7by7]

To wander off topic for a moment

........my Thai girlfriend of 7 yrs who has 1 child of 9yrs and a teenager of 18yrs........I presume the UKBA would accept a settlement application for just the younger child and not the teenager who wants to stay in Thailand anyway.........

Not only would they accept a child settlement application from just the younger child, the 18 year old couldn't apply for settlement as a child anyway. Children aged 18 or over are classed as adults and have to apply for settlement in their own right. Unless they qualify as an adult dependant. Immigration rulles Para 317(i)(f)

the son, daughter, sister, brother, uncle or aunt over the age of 18 if living alone outside the United Kingdom in the most exceptional compassionate circumstances

Any children should, though, be named on the mother's form in the appropriate place in case they ever want to visit the mother in the UK.

Most of my UK income is classified as 'Land and Property', which is from UK rented property

From Annex FM Section FM 1.7 Financial requirement:-

5.3.3 Category C: specified non-employment income

The specified non-employment income (excluding pension and allowances under Category E) the applicant’s partner and/or the applicant has received in the 12 months prior to the application can count towards the financial requirement applicable to it, provided they continue to own the relevant asset (e.g. property, shares) at the date of application.

This income can also be used in combination with other categories as described.

5.4 Further detail

5.4.3. In respect of non-employment sources of income:

This must be in the name of the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly.

Property rental income: The property, in the UK or overseas, must be owned by the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly, and must not be their main residence (and therefore income from a lodger in that residence cannot be counted). If the applicant’s partner or applicant shares ownership of the property with a third party, only income received from the applicant’s partner’s and/or applicant’s share of the property can be counted. Income from property which is rented out for only part of the year (e.g. a holiday let) can be counted. The equity in a property cannot be used to meet the financial requiremen

5.5 Specified evidence

5.5.5 In respect of non-employment income:

Property rental income:

Evidence confirming that the applicant’s partner and/or the applicant owns the property for which the rental income is received, e.g. title deeds of the property (if held), mortgage statement.

All bank statements required to show the income relied upon was paid into an account in the name of the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly in the 12-month period prior to the application.

Rental agreement, e.g. tenancy agreement, contract.

[SunsetT]

I could be in a similar situation soon, possibly marrying my Thai girlfriend of 7 yrs who has 1 child of 9yrs and a teenager of 18yrs. I could probably just scrape in on the savings, but can anyone please tell me what income level would then be required on top of the £72000? I presume the UKBA would accept a settlement application for just the younger child and not the teenager who wants to stay in Thailand anyway. Most of my UK income is classified as 'Land and Property', which is from UK rented property, A small very element of my income is classified as 'Self-Employed', but this will probably cease very soon, so my only income will then be from L & P. Also is there any ongoing monitoring of the £72000 savings once the settlement visa has been granted? I am 60 yrs old and lucky to have no real pressure on where we live, but I really sympathise with you Matsky13 trying to do the right thing and finding yourself in such a difficult situation. I wish you good luck for your family's future.

If you meet the savings requirement ( 72,000 GBP for wife and one child in savings for at least 6 months, etc) then that is all you need. There is no additional income required. It's pretty nonsensical really as, as soon as your wife has the visa, you can blow the savings on a new Porsche Boxster if you want. Where's the logic in all of this ? You will, of course, have to meet the financial requirement again at the Further Leave to remain stage after 30 months in the UK, and later at the ILR stage too.

Thanks for that Visaplus, But is the financial requirement the same at the Leave to remain stage and ILR stage? If so then I I'll have to delay buying the new Porsche Boxster wont I?

[SunsetT]

To wander off topic for a moment

........my Thai girlfriend of 7 yrs who has 1 child of 9yrs and a teenager of 18yrs........I presume the UKBA would accept a settlement application for just the younger child and not the teenager who wants to stay in Thailand anyway.........

Not only would they accept a child settlement application from just the younger child, the 18 year old couldn't apply for settlement as a child anyway. Children aged 18 or over are classed as adults and have to apply for settlement in their own right. Unless they qualify as an adult dependant. Immigration rulles Para 317(i)(f)

the son, daughter, sister, brother, uncle or aunt over the age of 18 if living alone outside the United Kingdom in the most exceptional compassionate circumstances

Any children should, though, be named on the mother's form in the appropriate place in case they ever want to visit the mother in the UK.

Most of my UK income is classified as 'Land and Property', which is from UK rented property

From Annex FM Section FM 1.7 Financial requirement:-

5.3.3 Category C: specified non-employment income

The specified non-employment income (excluding pension and allowances under Category E) the applicant’s partner and/or the applicant has received in the 12 months prior to the application can count towards the financial requirement applicable to it, provided they continue to own the relevant asset (e.g. property, shares) at the date of application.

This income can also be used in combination with other categories as described.

5.4 Further detail

5.4.3. In respect of non-employment sources of income:

This must be in the name of the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly.

Property rental income: The property, in the UK or overseas, must be owned by the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly, and must not be their main residence (and therefore income from a lodger in that residence cannot be counted). If the applicant’s partner or applicant shares ownership of the property with a third party, only income received from the applicant’s partner’s and/or applicant’s share of the property can be counted. Income from property which is rented out for only part of the year (e.g. a holiday let) can be counted. The equity in a property cannot be used to meet the financial requiremen

5.5 Specified evidence

5.5.5 In respect of non-employment income:

Property rental income:

Evidence confirming that the applicant’s partner and/or the applicant owns the property for which the rental income is received, e.g. title deeds of the property (if held), mortgage statement.

All bank statements required to show the income relied upon was paid into an account in the name of the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly in the 12-month period prior to the application.

Rental agreement, e.g. tenancy agreement, contract.

Very useful information 7by7, Thank you. Can you please confirm what VisaPlus has said above. That is that if I meet the savings requirement then my income is irrelevant anyway. Why I ask is that the quote you give above on property rental income, states the income cannot come from my main home, when in one way it does. I own a house/property divided into 5 totally self-contained and separately council tax rated flats, and I live in one of them when I am in the UK. This is my main home, and my income comes from the other 4 flats. Technically only the flat is my main home, but if UKBA are looking for an excuse to turn down applications then they could be nit-picky and insist the whole building is my main home. What do you think? I also have another question but I think I should open another thread as I feel like Im hijacking this one -Sorry Matsky13.

[VisasPlus]

I could be in a similar situation soon, possibly marrying my Thai girlfriend of 7 yrs who has 1 child of 9yrs and a teenager of 18yrs. I could probably just scrape in on the savings, but can anyone please tell me what income level would then be required on top of the £72000? I presume the UKBA would accept a settlement application for just the younger child and not the teenager who wants to stay in Thailand anyway. Most of my UK income is classified as 'Land and Property', which is from UK rented property, A small very element of my income is classified as 'Self-Employed', but this will probably cease very soon, so my only income will then be from L & P. Also is there any ongoing monitoring of the £72000 savings once the settlement visa has been granted? I am 60 yrs old and lucky to have no real pressure on where we live, but I really sympathise with you Matsky13 trying to do the right thing and finding yourself in such a difficult situation. I wish you good luck for your family's future.

If you meet the savings requirement ( 72,000 GBP for wife and one child in savings for at least 6 months, etc) then that is all you need. There is no additional income required. It's pretty nonsensical really as, as soon as your wife has the visa, you can blow the savings on a new Porsche Boxster if you want. Where's the logic in all of this ? You will, of course, have to meet the financial requirement again at the Further Leave to remain stage after 30 months in the UK, and later at the ILR stage too.

Thanks for that Visaplus, But is the financial requirement the same at the Leave to remain stage and ILR stage? If so then I I'll have to delay buying the new Porsche Boxster wont I?

I'm afraid it is ! No new Porsche for you, then

[7by7]

VisasPlus knows more about this than I, but as far as I am aware the financial requirement can be satisfied by

• Income, or
  
• Savings,or
  
• Combination of both.
  

As the flats are separate and self contained I doubt that the other 4 would be deemed as part of your main residence. It is not the same situation as the example given in the guidance; having a lodger.

[VisasPlus]

VisasPlus knows more about this than I, but as far as I am aware the financial requirement can be satisfied by

• Income, or
  
• Savings,or
  
• Combination of both.
  

As the flats are separate and self contained I doubt that the other 4 would be deemed as part of your main residence. It is not the same situation as the example given in the guidance; having a lodger.

I agree with 7x7 on the property question. I would think that, if your main home ( your flat) is separate then the other tenants are not your lodgers. The definition of a lodger seems to be someone "that has mere use of the premises without actual or exclusive possession thereof".

The income requirement can be met in the ways that 7x7 says, except that income from self employment cannot be combined with savings..

[matsky13]

Good luck Sunset T I hope it works out for you , you have brought up some interesting points ,and thanks again Visa plus and 7by 7 , Interesting answers .

I have been disparing about the whole situation this last week ,and had pretty much given up on the Idea of getting my Fiance' over here fulltime at the moment , and was thinking I would just do the 6 month visitor visa for her .I would visit Thailand for 3 or four months so we would only be appart for 2 to 3 months . But I had not considdered the combination of earnings and saving . I also have a small income of 5k a year from an appartment i let out .One of you guys point out that the income should be paid into the bank for 12 months prior to application , So thanks for pointing this out , At the moment its been paid in cash ,I have written receipts signed by both me and tennant for every month .but that is not what they are asking for .So this will be rectified ,.

I wonder though if i was to let my current home out and took out a new mortgage for a new house for me and the family to live in I could use that income towards my vissa application financial requirements . Or as i pointed out in my earlier post selling my current home using some as a deposit for new place and the rest sits in the bank for 5 years .

Both totally crazy situations as they dont make me any more finnancialy secure .Just the opposite in fact , but it gets me closer to jumping through the hoops of UKBA .

I realy not sure what is the best course of action at the moment for myself ,in 3 years time i have some savings plans that will be maturing I hoped that this would be to reinvest for my future retirement but it looks like it will be sitting in a bank for UKBA , to look at , But I am worried that by then maybe the goal posts will be moved again !

I have another question regardin a new application for a visitor visa , Do we have to submit all the same information regarding proof of relationship again or will it all be on record from the first succsesfull visa ?? I can feel more outrage as i think i can guess the answer already ?? but please please tell me that they are not that diss organised !

The big problem for me is the fact that they will not allow mixing self employed income and savings , I can understand that self employed earnings change from year to year , and a start up business is vulnerable to changes in income . but I have had the same business for the last 20 years .surely an average from 20 years of auditted accounts would be a fair indication of self relliance . as apposed to someone who has just started a new job for 6 months with a company that is no less likely to have a reliable future , no matter how big the company they are all vulnarable !

sorry to rant and rave but as you all know its a worrying time, miles appart and wondering if the laws of each country change as they keep doing ,will you have anything like a normal future together .

Just to sum up my questions .

Q1 For second vissa app , same level of proof of relationship ??

Q2 Would selling or renting my current home be acceptable ?

Q3 How likely is it that the goal post will change over the next 3 years ?

Q4 saying i had rental income from propery and land of 10k what would the savings level be ?

p.s Sunset T thanks for your kind words re doing the right thing . for me its the ONLY way, the day a self reliant person has to think about terminating a preagnancy because the powers that be have changed there laws is a very sad day indeed .as a friend pointed out this week ,if you cant get around something , go under it , and if you cant get under ,go over ,and if you cant get over it, go through it . That is what i will do ! and the first time my local MP is back from her extended break I will be at her Surgery .

[7by7]

Q1. Afraid so, but updated. Each application is treated on it's own merits and so the same level of evidence is required. Otherwise, a person who had once visited the UK but since ended the relationship with that sponsor could use the past relationship to obtain a second visa.

Q2. As far as I'm aware; yes. Provided you can adequately accommodate yourself and your partner.

Q3. Who knows? The government has said that the requirements will be reviewed each year and adjusted in line with inflation (i.e. upward).

Legal challenges may also effect these requirements.

Q4. Not sure; there is a calculator in the guidance linked to above.

[VisasPlus]

Q1. Afraid so, but updated. Each application is treated on it's own merits and so the same level of evidence is required. Otherwise, a person who had once visited the UK but since ended the relationship with that sponsor could use the past relationship to obtain a second visa.

Q2. As far as I'm aware; yes. Provided you can adequately accommodate yourself and your partner.

Q3. Who knows? The government has said that the requirements will be reviewed each year and adjusted in line with inflation (i.e. upward).

Legal challenges may also effect these requirements.

Q4. Not sure; there is a calculator in the guidance linked to above.

Re Q4, it depends on how much rental income you get per year. Once the rental income in either THB or GBP is known ( 10k in what currency ? ), the required savings can be calculated.

[matsky13]

Q1 I am a bit supprised that even though I am the same sponcer i still need all the back up information ,ie photos and telephone communication . I was so relieved when i had finaly got it all together i dont remeber now if i made copys . I certainly didnt with the photos . That was a major mistake if i didn't . I would hope it wont be as stressfull next time regarding visa apps though but i hope she will be returning with our baby , so maybe it will be more stressfull ,will have to get british passport etc for baby ,not a 5 minute opperation from what i read on here!

Q4 I used the simple explanation from Visa Plus explanation earlier post and worked out the answer to q 4. it is basicaly my rental income times 2.5 reduction off the 72 thousand pounds required for spouse and 1 child , so for every 1 thousand pounds i can show from rental income from the last 12 months its 2.5 thousand off the amount of savings required .If i understand correctly ?.

Thanks again guys ! Im off to buy my euromillions lottery ticket , its the most likely option at this time .

[VisasPlus]

Q1 I am a bit supprised that even though I am the same sponcer i still need all the back up information ,ie photos and telephone communication . I was so relieved when i had finaly got it all together i dont remeber now if i made copys . I certainly didnt with the photos . That was a major mistake if i didn't . I would hope it wont be as stressfull next time regarding visa apps though but i hope she will be returning with our baby , so maybe it will be more stressfull ,will have to get british passport etc for baby ,not a 5 minute opperation from what i read on here!

Q4 I used the simple explanation from Visa Plus explanation earlier post and worked out the answer to q 4. it is basicaly my rental income times 2.5 reduction off the 72 thousand pounds required for spouse and 1 child , so for every 1 thousand pounds i can show from rental income from the last 12 months its 2.5 thousand off the amount of savings required .If i understand correctly ?.

Thanks again guys ! Im off to buy my euromillions lottery ticket , its the most likely option at this time .

If your rental income is 10,000 GBP per year, then I make the savings requirement to be 47,000 GBP.

[durhamboy]

I think there is still a lot of confusion over the financial requirements. I had a conversation today with a Brit running a visa company here in Thailand. He shocked me when he said that Cash Savings cannot be the only source of income. In fact I was so shocked I quickly went back on the internet and reread the UKBA guidelines. To me it is quite clear that you can just use savings to satisfy the requirements (provided that it is at least 62500 for a couple without children).

The only thing you cant do is mix self-employment income with savings. To be fair to the visa guy he did also say that you couldnt do this mixing but he was "pretty sure" you couldnt solely use cash savings.

Frankly I think he is wrong. If a visa expert doesnt really know then what chance has Joe Public got? Can someone (7x7 or VisaPlus?) just please confirm that you can solely use cash savings just for my own sanity!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks

[VisasPlus]

I think there is still a lot of confusion over the financial requirements. I had a conversation today with a Brit running a visa company here in Thailand. He shocked me when he said that Cash Savings cannot be the only source of income. In fact I was so shocked I quickly went back on the internet and reread the UKBA guidelines. To me it is quite clear that you can just use savings to satisfy the requirements (provided that it is at least 62500 for a couple without children).

The only thing you cant do is mix self-employment income with savings. To be fair to the visa guy he did also say that you couldnt do this mixing but he was "pretty sure" you couldnt solely use cash savings.

Frankly I think he is wrong. If a visa expert doesnt really know then what chance has Joe Public got? Can someone (7x7 or VisaPlus?) just please confirm that you can solely use cash savings just for my own sanity!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks

You can use savings alone to qualify.

[7by7]

Frankly I think he is wrong. If a visa expert doesnt really know then what chance has Joe Public got? Can someone (7x7 or VisaPlus?) just please confirm that you can solely use cash savings just for my own sanity!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He is wrong. As VisasPlus says, cash savings can be used, in part or wholly.

Unfortunately anyone can open up an office in Thailand and present themselves as a visa agent; there is no regulation.

Obviously there are agents in Thailand who are professional, qualified and competent; such as Thai Visa Express and Visas Plus.

Unfortunately others are not; as your experience shows.

[durhamboy]

Thanks Visa Plus and 7x7 for the clear and concise reply. To be fair to the visa expert he was doing me a favour on a non-visa matter. He seemed to be a genuine, honest guy who simply got it wrong. Trouble is if he can get it so wrong then where does that leave the rest of us?

IMHO these new regulations are crazy as, to my knowledge, they do not take into account other circumstances. For example (apologies if this point has been made before) a sponsor can own a half million pound house outright with no mortgage and have an income of 18500 pa. Another sponsor has no house, pays 10k a year in rent but because his income is 18600 pa he qualifies but the home owner doesnt.

Previously these decisions were made by the ECO who weighed up all the facts before making a rational decision. Now the UK Govt have taken it out of the hands of the ECO and wants everyone to be put in nice little boxes where you qualify or you dont. Trouble is that, as you can see in this forum, many people have complex financial arrangements and dont fit nicely into the Govt's boxes. Many dont know (a) if they qualify, ( if they dont qualify, why not? and © why they should change their financial arrangements just to comply with one aspect of the visa requirements - the visa could still be denied on other grounds.

Another thing also strikes me - what happens if a sponsor fulfils the financial requirements and gets the visa but later, at the FLR stage, doesnt quite meet the requirements. Do agents from UKBA swoop on them and frogmarch the applicant to an immigration detention centre? One would obviously think not but what will happen in such cases (and there will be some) - do you have to then apply on compassionate grounds?

I recently spoke with a number of applicants when my fiancee went for her English Test - another source of concern. Many said to me "Your Government is making it so difficult for us to come to your country." They werent angry just sad and all I could do was agree with them.

Personally, I think that these new regulations are becoming more and more onerous for people - especially those with children. I think in future we may see many people just taking the tourist visa route and overstaying which in turn will make tourist visas harder to get.

[bobrussell]

The government made it clear that they were not interested in drawing up a budget sheet for individuals so decided on a one size fits all rule. you either have the right income or you don't.

This inflexibility makes interpretation easy. It is the level where people are not entitled to most benefits and that seems to be the key thing for them. They are not interested in what financial problems you have, just that they are not paying to get you out of it!

I agree with the £16K figure in principle (as a tax payer!) but there should be other ways applicants are able to show a satisfactory financial situation. Not all people need this sort of figure to live on!

It will be interesting to see how they tackle those unable to show they comply at the FLR stage! I cannot see them kicking out partners who are settled in the UK. Possibly refusing/further delaying ILR may be how they tackle it.

[VisasPlus]

UK is by no means the only country to have a financial requirement for spouse and partners. It is, however the second highest in its requirement, surpassed only by Norway. You might find this interesting :

Approximate income required for sponsors to reunite with spouse/partner (as annual income)

Norway NOK 232,400 (£24,850)

UK £18,600, level generally below income-related benefits

Netherlands €18,872 (£15,168), excludes certain benefits

Belgium €15,084 (£12,123), excludes certain benefits

Denmark No fixed threshold, excludes certain benefits, plus bond of DEK50,000 (£5,405)

Germany No fixed threshold, excludes certain benefits

Switzerland Discretionary, depends canton-by-canton

Ireland Discretionary

USA $18,912 (£12,079)

France €12,840 (£10,320), excludes certain benefits

Finland €10,800 (£8,681)

Austria €9,521 (£7,652), excludes certain benefits

Spain €6,384 (£5,131)

Sweden SEK52,488 (£4,829)

Italy €5,350 (£4,300)

Portugal €5,064 (£4,070)

Poland €1,440 (£1,157)

Canada None, only for parents or other adults, generally CAN$22,229 (£14,003)

New Zealand None, only for parents or other adults, NZD$27,203 (£13,960)

Australia None, only for parents or other adults, AUD$10,000 (£6,561)

[theoldgit]

Interesting facts VP, I wonder how those requirements compare to average earnings in the respective countries?

[7by7]

Average disposable wage of OECD members These are figures for 2011 and in USD.

The UK is 6th, with the USA on top.

[Anon999]

I wonder though if i was to let my current home out and took out a new mortgage for a new house for me and the family to live in I could use that income towards my vissa application financial requirements . Or as i pointed out in my earlier post selling my current home using some as a deposit for new place and the rest sits in the bank for 5 years .

Looks as though letting out your current home is a good idea but how about renting a 2 bed flat until the flr is obtained? That would obviate the need for finding a considerable amount of money to buy another property and raise a mortgage therefore leaving your savings virtually intact and providing an income probably greater than the rental cost of the flat.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Anon999