Youve Gotta Be Nutz To Buy Property In Thailand

[kkf123]

Given the horrific legal system in Thailand, and the rumored treatment of farang in these courts, why would you possibley want to buy property here? Y ou cant even own it outright for chrissakes. Who even wants to mess around with it then? I cant imagine dropping 8 million baht on a condo in Bangkok, to find out in five years that it was built like crap or is being maintained like crap. What kind of gurantee do you have in Thailand? Absolutely zero.

Invest your money and rent.

[baan_yangyai]

Here! Here!

[Dragonman]

Given the horrific legal system in Thailand, and the rumored treatment of farang in these courts, why would you possibley want to buy property here? Y ou cant even own it outright for chrissakes. Who even wants to mess around with it then? I cant imagine dropping 8 million baht on a condo in Bangkok, to find out in five years that it was built like crap or is being maintained like crap. What kind of gurantee do you have in Thailand? Absolutely zero.

Invest your money and rent.

Well I've given my farang daughter her inheritance when I sold up in Uk, and my Thai wife has had her inheritance in the form of a modest abode, for putting up with me for all these years. So now with a pension I know if I am single again I can rent without worrying about leaving any inheritance concerns for people to fight over Property just doesn't interest me luckily. Except Property law that is

[rio666uk]

There have been many posts about buying condos, land etc in Thailand - but the more thought I give the idea the more I am with the OP.

Its Thailands future, and its future relationship with forreigners that concerns me - no one seems to sure what lies in store - you may or may not know what im getting at - but it cant be discussed here anyway...

as point 2 of the rules

[cclub75]

Invest your money and rent.

You have a point.

A few month back, i was thinking exactly like you.

But... situation changes. And you should admit that "invest your money" might be today as INSECURE as buying real estate in Thailand...

We have way too many black clouds over the world economy theses days : oil prices, Iran, deflation risks, inflation, bubbles everywhere, crazy buyings on commodities, USD currency that might be crunched, deficits etc.

The list is frankly scary. And the consequences of each very scary too.

So, actually I've changed my mind : better to buy something REAL now.

I believe that the run on commodities (real estate is one) is one the proof that many people feel that something is wrong and want "real" things in their hands. And that the confidence in "finance" (stock, bonds, paper money) is disapearing at high speed...

The market is over flooded with liquidity. It means that we are loosing absolute value very quickly.

So buy now a bunch of bricks&mortar... why not after all ?

[Butterfly]

I bought something here because I want a place to live in and I am tired to rent. It all depends on your choice of lifestyle.

as for the risk, the "world wide" property boom doesn't sound right and it will probably crash sooner than later, but still it's too good to have a place you own, as long as you don't put yourself into heavy debt to get it.

Bangkok is still reasonable in terms of pricing, not as silly as the other capital prices, which I hope will collapse soon.

Without the farangs, the Thai property market would be in a worse shape. The Thais know it, the government knows it, and I don't think it's about to change. Too much to lose for them. Waiting any longer means that you will be priced out, even on the Thai market, which would be pretty bad. Still a lot of good deals out there, grab them while you can. 700 Euros a sq. meter is still possible here.

[blabbel]

..because you can't legally own the land it stands on, and because you are more likely than not going to find it difficult to sell, if you need the money in a hurry.

[Butterfly]

..because you can't legally own the land it stands on, and because you are more likely than not going to find it difficult to sell, if you need the money in a hurry.

If you need the money in hurry, it would be an issue everywhere with a "non-liquid" asset like properties. Above all in the middle of a crash.

As for the land, you still have a lot of options. I know farangs being very careful with their money and risk (read cheap and risk averse) and they are buying properties like crazy because they can see the value.

[Rinrada]

I bought something here because I want a place to live in and I am tired to rent. It all depends on your choice of lifestyle.

as for the risk, the "world wide" property boom doesn't sound right and it will probably crash sooner than later, but still it's too good to have a place you own, as long as you don't put yourself into heavy debt to get it.

Bangkok is still reasonable in terms of pricing, not as silly as the other capital prices, which I hope will collapse soon.

Without the farangs, the Thai property market would be in a worse shape. The Thais know it, the government knows it, and I don't think it's about to change. Too much to lose for them. Waiting any longer means that you will be priced out, even on the Thai market, which would be pretty bad. Still a lot of good deals out there, grab them while you can. 700 Euros a sq. meter is still possible here.

1 Euro a sq.meter is still possible....but not for long...

[Butterfly]

1 Euro a sq.meter is still possible....but not for long...

a friend bought 20 rai for less than 1m baht

[Heng]

IMO most "pro rent" posts like these are from folks who don't want to be the last ones 'not on the property ownership boat' as opposed to being on some kind of altruistic mission to protect their fellow foreigners' financial assets from the local legal system. There are plenty of falang owners out and about, and their property is perfectly safe and sound, under the true ownership of their Thai husbands and wives.

[Rinrada]

Got some on me books at the mo between C.m. and Lampun for @ 150bt a sq meter... not selling ...just for reference...full chanot etc/land docs...etc...but minimun 50 rai....

If I still have it after Son Kran I will have to put it up to ...............er.. .market forces...yea...

[billd766]

IMO most "pro rent" posts like these are from folks who don't want to be the last ones 'not on the property ownership boat' as opposed to being on some kind of altruistic mission to protect their fellow foreigners' financial assets from the local legal system. There are plenty of falang owners out and about, and their property is perfectly safe and sound, under the true ownership of their Thai husbands and wives.

I agree with you 100% Heng.

I, through my wife, have 15 rai of land that we do a bit of farming on, and bewing "Nutz" as the OP puts it we just bought another 11 rai today at 30,000 baht a rai.

Of course we live out in the sticks in the central region but I suspect that if I wanted to buy the smae amount of land in the UK for example I think that 10 acres of land with planning permission etc would cost me maybe 1/2 million GBP and I would not be permitted to do what I want to do with it.

In Thailand up country nobody really cares what you do with your land and as far as I know my wife and I will be together until I die (I am 21 years older at 61) barring accidents.

with my first UK wife we bought a place near Portsmouth for £72,000 in 1987. I lost it in the divorce and she sold it last year for £170,000.

However much money I spend here on land and property I will not lose as much as I did there.

So why worry, you can't take it with you so enjoy while you can.

[mbkudu]

rent.

I'm with you kk123. Rent all you want as long as you want and people like me will be happy .

I love it when I read moaning posts like these from people who say renting is better than buying.

Cha ching!

[johnnyk]

I'm buying and I'm not worried.

I can't live in my bankbook and I'll have a house and pool for the same as some turkeys pay for an SUV to go to the mall in.

It won't be taken away from me, Thailand for all its faults is not Congo where 12-year olds have AK47s and take you off.

When I'm done with it I'll get my investment out and I'll have enjoyed it. If I don't make money, mai ben lai that's not my reason for buying.

Edited January 25, 2006 by johnnyk

[BIGTOE3]

I would like to buy a condo in BKK BUT I am unsure of additional costs involved. I do agree that buying better than renting at least you have something to show for your Bt. I am not sure if this right forum to get info I require so if anyone can help direct me it would be appreciated. Any area recommendations or places to avoid would also be helpful.

Just sticking my toe in only been to Bkk 6 times in under a year so a real newbie.

[suegha]

A lot of good points and considerations here. As long as we know what we are getting into and we don't invest too much, ie bigger risk, we are okay.

Sure, we don't know what will happen in the future, but where do we know what will happen in the future?

I decided to buy. However, like a previous poster said, I bought a property for the sort of money I'd spend on a car (in the UK). My car is worth less and less with every mile, my house (on Samui) is worth more and more with every year. If the whole thing went 'belly-up', so what? If it doesn't, I still have a nice house that I visit as often as I can and plan to retire to. I also rent it out while I'm not there, not for a fortune, but spending money for when I visit. Now that can't be bad!!!

[johnnyk]

A lot of good points and considerations here. As long as we know what we are getting into and we don't invest too much, ie bigger risk, we are okay.

Sure, we don't know what will happen in the future, but where do we know what will happen in the future?

I decided to buy. However, like a previous poster said, I bought a property for the sort of money I'd spend on a car (in the UK). My car is worth less and less with every mile, my house (on Samui) is worth more and more with every year. If the whole thing went 'belly-up', so what? If it doesn't, I still have a nice house that I visit as often as I can and plan to retire to. I also rent it out while I'm not there, not for a fortune, but spending money for when I visit. Now that can't be bad!!!

Exactly.

People happily spend the same $ on a car but forget that the car eventually goes belly-up and is worthless after being an ongoing expense for xxx years. I bought a new car once but never again.

It was worth 20% less the day I drove it home and went down from there. I couldn't rent it out for spending money and I couldn't live in it (except for hours in ridiculous traffic jams!).

[ThaiPauly]

I am with the "Buy" brigade.

Simply because I wanted something that I could personalise and that would be a legacy for my Wife when I die.

As previously stated the cost was no more than I paid for my last car in the UK. I am also currently buying a Condo in Bangkok in my own name (just because I CAN buy it in my name).

I am not that much bothered if prices go up or down as I don't intend selling either. I also own propery back home so that will always be worth a lot and will end up being a legacy for my 3 children, in the meantime I rent it out and that gives me an income of 45,000 baht a month.

I DO beleive however that if it would take your last satang to buy out here or if you bought with finance and if your marriage/relationship broke up and you not left with enough cash to live on then it is better to rent.

I FULLY accept that if my Marriage broke down I would loose the house, but that still would be a lot less than I lost when my last marriage in the UK failed where I OWNED the house, but my ex-Wife got the biggest chunk of it, even though we had no children together

So my take is BUY if you can really afford it- RENT if you can't, it is not rocket science

TP

[kkf123]

if the property you are buying is around 1 million baht (the price of a car) then I dont really see how you can go wrong.... although you will still be tied down to that property and City and Soi if you cant afford to own it and live somewhere else, and you will have the added headahces that come with renting a property to someone else, but for only 1 million baht it is probably more affordable to buy, especially if you plan to live there long term.

At 2 million baht mark, I think Renting becomes alot more viable, and at 3 million baht mark you'd have to be NUTZ to buy.

[Jeff1]

While I am still on the " buy " side I am not without concern . The paid for house and paid for land that I / we have is all in my wife's name . For that reason I do wonder at times if it would not have been better to rent . To late for me now .

[Dragonman]

IMO most "pro rent" posts like these are from folks who don't want to be the last ones 'not on the property ownership boat' as opposed to being on some kind of altruistic mission to protect their fellow foreigners' financial assets from the local legal system. There are plenty of falang owners out and about, and their property is perfectly safe and sound, under the true ownership of their Thai husbands and wives.

I agree with you 100% Heng.

I, through my wife, have 15 rai of land that we do a bit of farming on, and bewing "Nutz" as the OP puts it we just bought another 11 rai today at 30,000 baht a rai.

Of course we live out in the sticks in the central region but I suspect that if I wanted to buy the smae amount of land in the UK for example I think that 10 acres of land with planning permission etc would cost me maybe 1/2 million GBP and I would not be permitted to do what I want to do with it.

In Thailand up country nobody really cares what you do with your land and as far as I know my wife and I will be together until I die (I am 21 years older at 61) barring accidents.

with my first UK wife we bought a place near Portsmouth for £72,000 in 1987. I lost it in the divorce and she sold it last year for £170,000.

However much money I spend here on land and property I will not lose as much as I did there.

So why worry, you can't take it with you so enjoy while you can.

Agree 100% Billd! Oh forgot, not 100%. If you had 10 acres of development land for sale in Uk for 1/2 million quid you would be killed in the rush. Before I moved here 5 years ago was selling 10 acres on mountain tops to major developers for 2.5 million.

[sriracha john]

a good read for those considering their rights through the Thai judicial process over property purchase issues:

Foreigner loses out on property rights

Edited January 26, 2006 by sriracha john

[charles]

Its Thailands future, and its future relationship with forreigners that concerns me - no one seems to sure what lies in store - you may or may not know what im getting at - but it cant be discussed here anyway...

Yes...I don't think there is any need for scaremongering - in the sense like Thaksin will be round next week to personally strip you of your foreign ownership of that little condominium unit. However, the thing is there is so much sh*t below the surface and things that most of us don't know about...certainly in my humble view there are good chances of some serious "fun and games" here over the next 5 years or so. And this might be a consideration for those considering property ownership.

It may not be a case of directly impacting foreign ownership. More a case of you just not wanting to be in this country anymore...and then having an "asset" that you can't liquidize. Of course this is no huge problem for those for whom a property purchase would just be small change and just want somewhere of their own to live and personalize etc - for however long that may be. But for those not in such a comfortable position and God forbid those actually wanting to leverage themselves to buy..."you've got to be f***ing crazy" is probably a reasonable appraisal.

As an aside, there'll be what looks like a seriously explosive book related to Thailand coming out in the middle of this year. As above, it certainly can't be discussed here, suffice to say there is more chance of Trinidad & Tobago winning the World Cup than it being legally available in the Land of Smiles...

[Jai Dee]

As an aside, there'll be what looks like a seriously explosive book related to Thailand coming out in the middle of this year. As above, it certainly can't be discussed here...

Now you've got me curious...

Can you tell me any details?

PM me.

[sriracha john]

suffice to say there is more chance of Trinidad & Tobago winning the World Cup than it being legally available in the Land of Smiles...

Oiy Man!!.... Bite your tongue, man... We could do it, man!

It's a good thing we agree with all your other comments, man...

[rio666uk]

Its Thailands future, and its future relationship with forreigners that concerns me - no one seems to sure what lies in store - you may or may not know what im getting at - but it cant be discussed here anyway...

Yes...I don't think there is any need for scaremongering - in the sense like Thaksin will be round next week to personally strip you of your foreign ownership of that little condominium unit. However, the thing is there is so much sh*t below the surface and things that most of us don't know about...certainly in my humble view there are good chances of some serious "fun and games" here over the next 5 years or so. And this might be a consideration for those considering property ownership.

It may not be a case of directly impacting foreign ownership. More a case of you just not wanting to be in this country anymore...and then having an "asset" that you can't liquidize. Of course this is no huge problem for those for whom a property purchase would just be small change and just want somewhere of their own to live and personalize etc - for however long that may be. But for those not in such a comfortable position and God forbid those actually wanting to leverage themselves to buy..."you've got to be f***ing crazy" is probably a reasonable appraisal.

As an aside, there'll be what looks like a seriously explosive book related to Thailand coming out in the middle of this year. As above, it certainly can't be discussed here, suffice to say there is more chance of Trinidad & Tobago winning the World Cup than it being legally available in the Land of Smiles...

i dont know about any book - you're more in the "know" than i am - sounds interesting though

but the rest of your post sort of sums up my concerns.

[david96]

Leases are ok for commercial property but for residental houses one could have problems in the future as leases can be cancelled by the owner for a number of reasons and you may not be entitled to any compensation.

[xbusman]

Because everyone has differant life circumstances and opinions, the rule has to be very simple and easy for everyone to understand. This is for us guest expats, living and working in a country where we do not have citizenship and therefore none of the basic rights or protections granted to legal resident citizens.

NEVER INVEST MORE IN THAILAND THAN YOU ARE WILLING AND ABLE TO WALK AWAY FROM.

If your pocket money is such that you can cut back on the beer budget for a month or two and buy a palace on Phi Phi with the spare change, have at it. Wish I could. If your like me and the loss of 8 or 10 million baht would seriously twist your panties for longer than you care to endure, dont be thick.

No matter what the current law is, this is not a country known for stability or uniform application. As a guest here, you always need to be aware that they can show up on your doorstep any day they choose, pack your bag (if lucky) and escort you to the airport for an exciting adventure in unplanned travel.

So forget the fancy calculations of return on investment, rent versus buy, and remember that we are guests here by the good graces of HM and tolerated by the civil authorities as long as it benefits them.

[opothai]

bought the land and building the house to our specs,

while i have nothing against renting, it just never feels like home, and if you invest in your rental proprety and make it homely what rights do you have as a falang.

for the money involved to get a property in the area we want away from the maddening crowds so to speak, to us it is worth the outlay and the risk.

a question for the expats that have been in los for some time, how much was it to rent a property in pattaya 10-15 years ago and how much is it now. per annum