Deaths From Stray Bullets 'shock' Group

[OzMick]

Arsonists and murderers are allowed bail, in some cases paid by the government, with no collateral input from offenders. You think that is NOT liberal?

Murderers?

You are not aware of the police officers convicted of murder and allowed bail? Or is it, that if something doesn't involve the red shirts it is outside your scope?

Sorry, didn't realise your concern went beyond anything thaksin - an easy mistake to make..........

Another unanswered question, with a slimy disparagement. Do you now concede that Thailand has very liberal bail laws? Can you tell me of any other death row convicts granted bail anywhere?

[phiphidon]

Well I'm sure the yellow shirts could become political prisoners as well and the PIC will look after them in the same unbiased way, as it is their remit to look after political prisoners.

The only problem with this scenario is that there are no yellow shirts in prison - so cannot call themselves political prisoners and therefore do not qualify...........

Hope this helps your further education..............

Always comparing to yellow shirts whenever you have no answer. Maybe the yellow shirts you are referring to are not in prison because there is no individual evidence against them, or maybe their' crimes' were not as serious as the reds who are in prison. I don't remember any yellow shirts pouring blood in the streets, attack army bases, trying to shoot down helicopters, launch grenades, kill soldiers, drive LPG tankers, incite to hatred and violence, disrespect the courts, and so on... The whole red versus yellow comparison holds no ground. And you can hardly convince anyone that the courts are biased without any evidence, can you?

Well there are only two major support groups for the two main political parties, so its kind of hard to refer to any other political group of supporters isn't it - that has always been a lame comment "you're always comparing it to xxxxx".

Now as far as the yellow shirts are concerned I use them as an example of the double standards that are practised by the courts.

Red Shirts jailed immediately, bail set at over a million baht each, even for just breaching the emergency decree by being out over curfew, incarcerated for at least 2 years before bail is sorted.

Yellow shirts, released on bail immediately.

[OzMick]

Well I'm sure the yellow shirts could become political prisoners as well and the PIC will look after them in the same unbiased way, as it is their remit to look after political prisoners.

The only problem with this scenario is that there are no yellow shirts in prison - so cannot call themselves political prisoners and therefore do not qualify...........

Hope this helps your further education..............

Always comparing to yellow shirts whenever you have no answer. Maybe the yellow shirts you are referring to are not in prison because there is no individual evidence against them, or maybe their' crimes' were not as serious as the reds who are in prison. I don't remember any yellow shirts pouring blood in the streets, attack army bases, trying to shoot down helicopters, launch grenades, kill soldiers, drive LPG tankers, incite to hatred and violence, disrespect the courts, and so on... The whole red versus yellow comparison holds no ground. And you can hardly convince anyone that the courts are biased without any evidence, can you?

Well there are only two major support groups for the two main political parties, so its kind of hard to refer to any other political group of supporters isn't it - that has always been a lame comment "you're always comparing it to xxxxx".

Now as far as the yellow shirts are concerned I use them as an example of the double standards that are practised by the courts.

Red Shirts jailed immediately, bail set at over a million baht each, even for just breaching the emergency decree by being out over curfew, incarcerated for at least 2 years before bail is sorted.

Yellow shirts, released on bail immediately.

Again "red thought"- if you are not red you must be yellow. If PAD are supporters of the Democrats why do they have their own party and ran a Vote NO campaign in the last election? How many PAD were elected on the Democrat party list?

Of course, coupled with the standard disregard of the level and instigation of violence by charged persons. PAD protests saw NO security personnel or by-standers dead, no acts of mass arson, hospital invasions, blood pourings or any of the other low grade acts the reds considered acceptable.

[phiphidon]

Another unanswered question, with a slimy disparagement. Do you now concede that Thailand has very liberal bail laws? Can you tell me of any other death row convicts granted bail anywhere?

No I do not. Thailand has very liberal bail laws for certain people.

[OzMick]

Another unanswered question, with a slimy disparagement. Do you now concede that Thailand has very liberal bail laws? Can you tell me of any other death row convicts granted bail anywhere?

No I do not. Thailand has very liberal bail laws for certain people.

And that would have to include red shirts who had their bail posted by the government. Some of whom were clearly identified and convicted as arsonists carrying out the orders of persons now serving as MPs in the same government. Now is that liberal, or just plain old corruption and perverting the course of justice?

[rubl]

If I'm to distrust the introduction, what do I do with the rest? Especially as it has a lot of 'PIC says'. The part of "These are some of the serious issues facing these political prisoners:" might purely come from the LINKS people

Anyway, it's nice to know we have a totally unbiased group which works for red-shirts and political prisoners who just happen to be red-shirts only. Seemingly that is, not quoted from the PIC itself

Well I'm sure the yellow shirts could become political prisoners as well and the PIC will look after them in the same unbiased way, as it is their remit to look after political prisoners.

The only problem with this scenario is that there are no yellow shirts in prison - so cannot call themselves political prisoners and therefore do not qualify...........

Hope this helps your further education..............

So, it's only the poor, innocent red-shirts which need the attention of the PIC, a task they were set up for anyway. The rich and/or connected red-shirts were taken care of by fellow rich/connected people. Who cares about the cannon fodder? Oh, right, Pheu Thai MPs and the current govrnment which has near bottomless coffers to spent on bail.

[Thait Spot]

Another unanswered question, with a slimy disparagement. Do you now concede that Thailand has very liberal bail laws? Can you tell me of any other death row convicts granted bail anywhere?

No I do not. Thailand has very liberal bail laws for certain people.

And that would have to include red shirts who had their bail posted by the government. Some of whom were clearly identified and convicted as arsonists carrying out the orders of persons now serving as MPs in the same government. Now is that liberal, or just plain old corruption and perverting the course of justice?

The government has behaved shamelessly with respect to law and order. A despicable example to be setting this generation.

[phiphidon]

Well I'm sure the yellow shirts could become political prisoners as well and the PIC will look after them in the same unbiased way, as it is their remit to look after political prisoners.

The only problem with this scenario is that there are no yellow shirts in prison - so cannot call themselves political prisoners and therefore do not qualify...........

Hope this helps your further education..............

Always comparing to yellow shirts whenever you have no answer. Maybe the yellow shirts you are referring to are not in prison because there is no individual evidence against them, or maybe their' crimes' were not as serious as the reds who are in prison. I don't remember any yellow shirts pouring blood in the streets, attack army bases, trying to shoot down helicopters, launch grenades, kill soldiers, drive LPG tankers, incite to hatred and violence, disrespect the courts, and so on... The whole red versus yellow comparison holds no ground. And you can hardly convince anyone that the courts are biased without any evidence, can you?

Well there are only two major support groups for the two main political parties, so its kind of hard to refer to any other political group of supporters isn't it - that has always been a lame comment "you're always comparing it to xxxxx".

Now as far as the yellow shirts are concerned I use them as an example of the double standards that are practised by the courts.

Red Shirts jailed immediately, bail set at over a million baht each, even for just breaching the emergency decree by being out over curfew, incarcerated for at least 2 years before bail is sorted.

Yellow shirts, released on bail immediately.

Again "red thought"- if you are not red you must be yellow. If PAD are supporters of the Democrats why do they have their own party and ran a Vote NO campaign in the last election? How many PAD were elected on the Democrat party list?

Of course, coupled with the standard disregard of the level and instigation of violence by charged persons. PAD protests saw NO security personnel or by-standers dead, no acts of mass arson, hospital invasions, blood pourings or any of the other low grade acts the reds considered acceptable.

I was answering a loaded post by rubl implying that only red shirt political prisoners would be looked after by the PCI. I responded with my post that the only other political group in Thailand that could possibly end up as political prisoners and therefore could be afforded PCI's help would be the yellow shirts. Unfortunately they would not qualify as they are not in prison as I explained.

So your BS about "if you're not red you're yellow arguments" are of no import here

[rubl]

I was answering a loaded post by rubl implying that only red shirt political prisoners would be looked after by the PCI. I responded with my post that the only other political group in Thailand that could possibly end up as political prisoners and therefore could be afforded PCI's help would be the yellow shirts. Unfortunately they would not qualify as they are not in prison as I explained.

So your BS about "if you're not red you're yellow arguments" are of no import here

Now, now, dear phiphidon, read again:

"Anyway, it's nice to know we have a totally unbiased group which works for red-shirts and political prisoners who just happen to be red-shirts only. Seemingly that is, not quoted from the PIC itself"

[phiphidon]

If I'm to distrust the introduction, what do I do with the rest? Especially as it has a lot of 'PIC says'. The part of "These are some of the serious issues facing these political prisoners:" might purely come from the LINKS people

Anyway, it's nice to know we have a totally unbiased group which works for red-shirts and political prisoners who just happen to be red-shirts only. Seemingly that is, not quoted from the PIC itself

Well I'm sure the yellow shirts could become political prisoners as well and the PIC will look after them in the same unbiased way, as it is their remit to look after political prisoners.

The only problem with this scenario is that there are no yellow shirts in prison - so cannot call themselves political prisoners and therefore do not qualify...........

Hope this helps your further education..............

So, it's only the poor, innocent red-shirts which need the attention of the PIC, a task they were set up for anyway. The rich and/or connected red-shirts were taken care of by fellow rich/connected people. Who cares about the cannon fodder? Oh, right, Pheu Thai MPs and the current govrnment which has near bottomless coffers to spent on bail.

Now I know you understand the word prisoner - and what it entails and why it precludes yellow shirts. Now go read my post again, slowly, anything in there about rich/connected people, cannon fodder, Pheu Thai MP's?

No? So nothing to discuss then.

[rubl]

If I'm to distrust the introduction, what do I do with the rest? Especially as it has a lot of 'PIC says'. The part of "These are some of the serious issues facing these political prisoners:" might purely come from the LINKS people

Anyway, it's nice to know we have a totally unbiased group which works for red-shirts and political prisoners who just happen to be red-shirts only. Seemingly that is, not quoted from the PIC itself

Well I'm sure the yellow shirts could become political prisoners as well and the PIC will look after them in the same unbiased way, as it is their remit to look after political prisoners.

The only problem with this scenario is that there are no yellow shirts in prison - so cannot call themselves political prisoners and therefore do not qualify...........

Hope this helps your further education..............

So, it's only the poor, innocent red-shirts which need the attention of the PIC, a task they were set up for anyway. The rich and/or connected red-shirts were taken care of by fellow rich/connected people. Who cares about the cannon fodder? Oh, right, Pheu Thai MPs and the current govrnment which has near bottomless coffers to spent on bail.

Now I know you understand the word prisoner - and what it entails and why it precludes yellow shirts. Now go read my post again, slowly, anything in there about rich/connected people, cannon fodder, Pheu Thai MP's?

No? So nothing to discuss then.

You talk about yellow-shirts not in prison, have talked about 'of course not' and I mention those red-shirts and other unimportant UDD leader figures who luckily didn't need to wait for the PIC to get into action. Of course a lot of red-shirts bailed by Pheu Thai MP's and/or government have never really been political prisoners, but were merely imprisoned criminals. Sentenced for carrying matches, the odd grenade. Who am I to call that political anyway.

So nothing to discuss

Edited September 3, 2012 by rubl

[philw]

Another unanswered question, with a slimy disparagement. Do you now concede that Thailand has very liberal bail laws? Can you tell me of any other death row convicts granted bail anywhere?

No I do not. Thailand has very liberal bail laws for certain people.

And that would have to include red shirts who had their bail posted by the government. Some of whom were clearly identified and convicted as arsonists carrying out the orders of persons now serving as MPs in the same government. Now is that liberal, or just plain old corruption and perverting the course of justice?

The government has behaved shamelessly with respect to law and order. A despicable example to be setting this generation.

All Thai governments ( and I shall leave unsaid that which cannot be said ) have behaved shamelessly with respect to law and order.

Why single out one ??

[rubl]

All Thai governments ( and I shall leave unsaid that which cannot be said ) have behaved shamelessly with respect to law and order.

Why single out one ??

Too general dear phil. It's very likely that lots of Thai governments behaved faily well in reference to their current laws and the accepted ideas on order

I hope I can avoid flak or other types of archie from some English members here, but remember British gunboat diplomacy? According to some really acceptable, at least in those days it was.

[Thait Spot]

All Thai governments ( and I shall leave unsaid that which cannot be said ) have behaved shamelessly with respect to law and order.

Why single out one ??

We are talking about the latest Thaksin reincarnation.

Your attempts to pour scorn on that by weakly blaming history are very poor form.

The law is the law and should apply equally to all.

[OzMick]

Well there are only two major support groups for the two main political parties, so its kind of hard to refer to any other political group of supporters isn't it - that has always been a lame comment "you're always comparing it to xxxxx".

Now as far as the yellow shirts are concerned I use them as an example of the double standards that are practised by the courts.

Red Shirts jailed immediately, bail set at over a million baht each, even for just breaching the emergency decree by being out over curfew, incarcerated for at least 2 years before bail is sorted.

Yellow shirts, released on bail immediately.

Again "red thought"- if you are not red you must be yellow. If PAD are supporters of the Democrats why do they have their own party and ran a Vote NO campaign in the last election? How many PAD were elected on the Democrat party list?

Of course, coupled with the standard disregard of the level and instigation of violence by charged persons. PAD protests saw NO security personnel or by-standers dead, no acts of mass arson, hospital invasions, blood pourings or any of the other low grade acts the reds considered acceptable.

I was answering a loaded post by rubl implying that only red shirt political prisoners would be looked after by the PCI. I responded with my post that the only other political group in Thailand that could possibly end up as political prisoners and therefore could be afforded PCI's help would be the yellow shirts. Unfortunately they would not qualify as they are not in prison as I explained.

So your BS about "if you're not red you're yellow arguments" are of no import here

"Well there are only two major support groups for the two main political parties, so its kind of hard to refer to any other political group of supporters isn't it............"

I say that statement indicates that PAD is a Democrat support group - if your not red you are yellow. QED

Keep your self-serving bluster.

[Buchholz]

In a latest newsflash PIC coordinator and co-editor of the report, Puangthong Pawakapan

BTW the PIC's website is (in Thai only) http://www.peaceandjusticenetwork.org/

Mind you, did you note the quote I took from the LINKS Int. Journal, it gives a clear indication of what the scope of the PIC is:

""The People's Information Centre is an "alliance of a dozen lawyers, academics and social activists formed a month ago to help red shirts who say they are innocent of any crime…". PIC has now accused the state of illegal acts against United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship protesters who were arrested following the government's 19 May crackdown.""

Thanks for the research.

The PIC (Also Known As PCI) and their work with the incarcerated Red Shirts reminded me of their earlier report that Puangthong's organization put out regarding the background of many Red Shirts.

Most of the red-shirt supporters in jail are garbage collectors, homeless people, and the mentally ill who cannot seek legal help or find enough money for bail.

The People's Centre for Information (PCI) revealed its initial investigation on the April-May crackdowns yesterday. It collected Information about 169 red-shirt protesters who are now under detention over charges of taking part in illegal gatherings as well as arson or terrorism.

PCI discovered that most of the detained red shirts could not find lawyers or enough money for bail.

Most of the detainees are garbage collectors, homeless people, and people with mental health problems.

The Nation / 2010-11-19

http://www.nationmul...--30142601.html

In a way, the PIC could be viewed as anti-Red Shirt for exposing the Red Shirt recruiting tactics.

By targeting the disenfranchised and mentally ill to do the down and dirty crimes, the Red Shirt leadership revealed their proclivity for exploitation when they wanted cannon fodder.

None of the Red Shirt Leaders that were charged with crimes needed PIC. They were easily plunking down up to six million baht in cash to secure their freedom while leaving the homeless and mentally ill to remain incarcerated.

.

[hyperdimension]

I am quite certain that the People's Information Centre would not look after the PAD / Yellow Shirts if they were in prison, as it is likely funded / owned / operated by the Shinawatra family via Voice TV. See these posts below from the thread Chaos At Bangkok's Zen After Red Shirt Surrender, Court Hears

Nick, could you shed some light on the "People's Centre for Information" please? Who runs it, who funds it? I've Googled it, but there are only two entries, both are quotes from the PCI that don't offer any information on the organization. Right now, it sounds like someone is making claims which may or may not be unsubstantiated, such as "not enough evidence" and "tortured." I'm hoping it's more than just a mouthpiece for the UDD. Thank you,

The People's Information Center mostly consists of young academics and progressive human rights activists who are trying to collect information and map what happened last year. I think that they are doing a very good job.

"Mouthpiece for the UDD" is nowadays such a widely thrown empty accusation if someone does not agree with the state's position. Many people accuse me of being that as well. Yet they have not managed to disprove any of the facts i present, even though i have asked them on numerous occasions. When i am wrong about something, it is only helpful when i am corrected. Many though claiming that they had different information, or facts disproving me, never came up with what they claimed. Or it was the old "uncle-of-an-aunt-of-a-sister's-neighbor-said"... story.

Thanks for the information, though it didn't exactly answer the questions of who runs it and who funds it.

As I said, I'm hoping it's more than just a UDD operation. I really do.

Is the People's Information Center run by VoiceTV?: http://www.peaceandj....org/?page_id=2

VoiceTV is owned by Pantongtae and Pintongta Shinawatra, the son and daughter of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

It seems that nicknostitz was wrong when he claimed that "This is not an UDD operation".

Edited September 4, 2012 by hyperdimension

[rubl]

So, the LINKS Int. Socialist journal had

"The People's Information Centre is an "alliance of a dozen lawyers, academics and social activists formed a month ago to help red shirts who say they are innocent of any crime…

"

which was indicated by a member here as 'not what the PIC said'.

Then we had political prisoners thrown in to broaden the scope, with only red-shirts political prisoner.

And now looking a bit closer to the PIC website we see

"People’s Information Center (The April-May 2010 Crackdown): PIC"

So, obviously it's about peaceful red-shirts, democracy, innocent people, political prisoners and shocked by 'stray bullets'. No mention of grenades as that's not included in the scope of the PIC (as I mentioned earlier).