Drainage Capacity 'three Times Higher Than Last Year' In West Bangkok: Flood Test

[paulswebb]

Dtac is already "Grey" due its Foreign Owners as in the headline..... I wonder if there is more to this story??

Is the competition trying to hurt them by sending in bad subcontractors?

In Thailand all is possible.. Reminds me of last weeks headlines when the Govt decided to hike taxes just as Heineken was in a take over bid.

Oh and todays Headlines in the Nation! Thailand ranking 39 worldwide but could have ranked much higher if ... bla bla... Fill the rest in yourself.

Sorry, I find all this as clear as the Euro debt crisis, nobody seems to know the solution, but as usual plenty of comments

[Thaddeus]

PM Yingluck said the water was from that stored behind dams, MoS&T Plodprasop said it was 'reserved' water , but not from behind the Chai Nai dam. Go figure

Reserved = Reservoir

Possibly.

[rubl]

Just looking at Channel_3 I got the impression that the floodtest start to be really succesful. Didn't get the location, Khlong Ten Thep, Sen Thep, or something the like?

[OzMick]

3x times capacity. Thaksin's pumps must have arrived from Korea, secretly installed so that he wouldn't be embarassed by all the thanks.

[h90]

I get your point for this one. Yes it would help small area. Thank you.

together with smart water management, which takes the necessary steps long ahead before the floods are happening it is one more helpful resource.

if the government makes complete nonsense the canals won't safe the day.

If they would like to do something they could lay a big tube north south. A tube that isn't open so water pressure can be build up and speed everything up. Don't know the height differences but if they could do 5-10 meter than it would be 0.5-1 bar.....

[scotbeve]

This is Thailand, the land where everything is bigger, better, faster, stronger, louder.

Until it is really tested, then it tends to be much quieter.

Thad,

has any other government EVER tested IN ANY practical fashion the flood water scenario?

[rubl]

This is Thailand, the land where everything is bigger, better, faster, stronger, louder.

Until it is really tested, then it tends to be much quieter.

Thad,

has any other government EVER tested IN ANY practical fashion the flood water scenario?

Not sure this question is really relevant. Mind you being Dutch I cannot really remember the Dutch government ever needed to do these type of practise tests

[ResX]

I get your point for this one. Yes it would help small area. Thank you.

together with smart water management, which takes the necessary steps long ahead before the floods are happening it is one more helpful resource.

if the government makes complete nonsense the canals won't safe the day.

If they would like to do something they could lay a big tube north south. A tube that isn't open so water pressure can be build up and speed everything up. Don't know the height differences but if they could do 5-10 meter than it would be 0.5-1 bar.....

It won't solve the problem entirely. If you plot the rainfall intensities for the entire Chao Pharaya catchments in hourly time step during flood period you will see an average flow of 17,000-20,000 cubic meters per second that can extent over the entire period 7-10 days. If you monitor closely hour by hour you will definitely see typical flow as high as 170,000-200,000 cubic meters per second but last less than 8 hours. It is not going to be easy to deal with these huge amount of discharges if you don't have mean to store it. It is a matter of fact these kind are the flow that cause major floods.

F.I.Y the Chao Pharaya at best can take up to 3,300 cubic meters per second before somebody gets wet.

[thatswhatuthought]

Living in eastern BKK now and a lot of areas that I saw tonight were experiencing flass floods from the rains. Canal levels are high and lakes and ponds are high. We've had less rain than we had last year and it's just as bad if not worse. Let's hope for the best with these tests.

[thatswhatuthought]

This is Thailand, the land where everything is bigger, better, faster, stronger, louder.

Until it is really tested, then it tends to be much quieter.

Thad,

has any other government EVER tested IN ANY practical fashion the flood water scenario?

Not sure this question is really relevant. Mind you being Dutch I cannot really remember the Dutch government ever needed to do these type of practise tests

Yeah, you just got it right the first time. Without any tests and experiments you must be the superior race. Well done.

Edited September 6, 2012 by thatswhatuthought

[rubl]

Living in eastern BKK now and a lot of areas that I saw tonight were experiencing flass floods from the rains. Canal levels are high and lakes and ponds are high. We've had less rain than we had last year and it's just as bad if not worse. Let's hope for the best with these tests.

Are you in luck , young man!

"Speaking to the press, the Prime Minister said the machines that were introduced to help push excessive canal water to the Gulf of Thailand really strengthened the efficiency of the draining system and would thus be used again in the second test to be conducted on Friday (7 September) on the eastern side of Bangkok."

http://www.thaivisa....75#entry5639829

[Thai at Heart]

This is Thailand, the land where everything is bigger, better, faster, stronger, louder.

Until it is really tested, then it tends to be much quieter.

Thad,

has any other government EVER tested IN ANY practical fashion the flood water scenario?

Not sure this question is really relevant. Mind you being Dutch I cannot really remember the Dutch government ever needed to do these type of practise tests

Yeah, you just got it right the first time. Without any tests and experiments you must be the superior race. Well done.

Well man got to the moon with less computing power than an I phone, and the Thai govt still needs to do full scale real tests?

[thatswhatuthought]

• 
  This is Thailand, the land where everything is bigger, better, faster, stronger, louder.
  Until it is really tested, then it tends to be much quieter.
  

  Thad,
  has any other government EVER tested IN ANY practical fashion the flood water scenario?

  Not sure this question is really relevant. Mind you being Dutch I cannot really remember the Dutch government ever needed to do these type of practise tests
  

  Yeah, you just got it right the first time. Without any tests and experiments you must be the superior race. Well done.
  

BTW with a quick search on this facinating thing called the internet, you can find one or two tests that have been done.

[Bowery99]

Living in eastern BKK now and a lot of areas that I saw tonight were experiencing flass floods from the rains. Canal levels are high and lakes and ponds are high. We've had less rain than we had last year and it's just as bad if not worse. Let's hope for the best with these tests.

Flood Drainage Test In Bangkok To Be Stopped If It Goes Wrong

My soi in Bangkhen is already slightly flooded tonight,(it is now up to about 12CM) so 5 more and it is in my door) I posted on YingLuck's FB page "Please do not do the test on the 7th (tomorrow) I live in BangKhen and we are flooded on the soi tonight already just from the rain. the Klong near here is already at least 50cm higher too, too much construction going on around here, it will flood again, please consider at least delaying it!! It is your mistake if people get flooded again here, we had to leave for a month last October, people will call the news agencies and you will get very bad press."My soi in Bangkhen is already slightly flooded tonight, I posted on YingLuck's FB page "Please do not do the test on the 7th (tomorrow) I live in BangKhen and we are flooded on the soi tonight already just from the rain. the Klong near here is already at least 50cm higher too, too much construction going on around here, it will flood again, please consider at least delaying it!! It is your mistake if people get flooded again here, we had to leave for a month last October, people will call the news agencies and you will get very bad press."

Flood Drainage Test In Bangkok To Be Stopped If It Goes Wrong

IMO it has already gone wrong!

[rubl]

This is Thailand, the land where everything is bigger, better, faster, stronger, louder.

Until it is really tested, then it tends to be much quieter.

Thad,

has any other government EVER tested IN ANY practical fashion the flood water scenario?

Not sure this question is really relevant. Mind you being Dutch I cannot really remember the Dutch government ever needed to do these type of practise tests

Yeah, you just got it right the first time. Without any tests and experiments you must be the superior race. Well done.

With those friendly words, I'm hesitant to say you might be somewhat mistaken. In the Netherlands we have been working on this for the last 800 years or so. Every time mother nature does a 'live' test we adapt, correct, improve, etc. Long-term planning, allocate AND reserve money for plans. Currently financing till 2020 secured, till 2028 in progress. minor things like that

[rubl]

BTW with a quick search on this facinating thing called the internet, you can find one or two tests that have been done.

Well, well, what you know. Maybe I've been away too long?

A scientific paper from 2003 (in English, don't worry )

"DRAINAGE CONTROL IN WATER MANAGEMENT OF POLDERS"

http://library.wur.n...loop_ab029.html

[thatswhatuthought]

Thank u, The wondering type. You showed the years of reasearch tests and experments that it took to aquire this data.

[MikeOboe57]

The river boat idea on itself isn't silly at all. Think of a canal and imagine that they would make a massive steel bridge and mount on it full with 300 HP boot engines with deep propeller and let them run full speed. You would put in a lot kinetic energy that really causes higher water level after the engines. Of course you must put a lot energy in and have it over the complete cross/section to prevent back-flow. but it could be made.

these 2 boats on the picture are of course nonsense.

Well, it isn't silly, it is idiotic. What you ignore in your argument is the viscosity of water. That means ,in simple terms, that every water particle that isn't accelerated by your propellers (and that would be the majority) will slow down immediately all those few that were accelerated. Add to that the friction along the river bed (there is a boundary layer with a speed of zero), the propeller cavitation, flow dynamics, or toss a model ship out on a lake on a calm day and guess whether it will stop after a short distance or glide on at a steady speed until it reaches the opposite bank.

If Khun Plodprasob was right he would have invented the "perpetuum mobile" (neverending motion). But he isn't.

[thatswhatuthought]

This is still a third world country folks. Call it developing if makes u feel better. The fact is they could develop a lot quicker if they would take advice/help from many countrie that have tried to give it. They don't want it to save losing face. So in their own words "Som Nam Na." It's just a shame that many of us that come from the countries that tried to help them live here and have to deal with it.

[Thai at Heart]

BTW with a quick search on this facinating thing called the internet, you can find one or two tests that have been done.

Well, well, what you know. Maybe I've been away too long?

A scientific paper from 2003 (in English, don't worry )

"DRAINAGE CONTROL IN WATER MANAGEMENT OF POLDERS"

http://library.wur.n...loop_ab029.html

I didn't write above quote. I have not to worry though.

[rubl]

Thank u, The wondering type. You showed the years of reasearch tests and experments that it took to aquire this data.

Mind you most if not all of these tests in the Netherlands are either performed in laboratories like the famous one of the University of Technology in Delft or in areas where there is no population which might be inconvenienced.

BTW regarding the 'polder Zuidplas' mentioned in the link to the scientific article:

"it reaches a depth of 7.0 metres (23.0 ft) under the mean sea level at the Dutch coast "

http://en.wikipedia..../Zuidplaspolder

[rubl]

BTW with a quick search on this facinating thing called the internet, you can find one or two tests that have been done.

Well, well, what you know. Maybe I've been away too long?

A scientific paper from 2003 (in English, don't worry )

"DRAINAGE CONTROL IN WATER MANAGEMENT OF POLDERS"

http://library.wur.n...loop_ab029.html

I didn't write above quote. I have not to worry though.

My excuses

In removing a quote in a quote in a quote I seem to have removed the wrong quote header. Does happen.

[rubl]

Thank u, The wondering type. You showed the years of reasearch tests and experments that it took to aquire this data.

Yet another successful test, this time even with breaching dikes!

"On 26 and 27 August, two test dikes at the IJkdijk location Bad Nieuweschans in Groningen, the Netherlands collapsed entirely according to plan. Both dikes collapsed because of microstability, where water forces its way into the body of the dike. The dike then softens and shifts at the dike toe (at the bottom)."

http://www.deltares....-breach-ijkdijk

[gk10002000]

Sorry, but the problem was that there was no place for the water to drain to! Water table was high everywhere. Drainage Capacity may be a useless number.

[scotbeve]

Thai at Heart said:

"Well man got to the moon with less computing power than an I phone, and the Thai govt still needs to do full scale real tests?"

By your short, curt reply here (as in most replies from semi-rabid to rabid anti-govt posters), am I to presume that past govts "got it right" the first time with flood control??? Dead silence here....... To the best of my knowledge, this is the very first time the govt has asked for a "test" to be performed. Don't you Yingluck bashers think that some more data (achieved by Thais) is AT LEAST a positive action for getting hands-on experience and data compilation for extending more flood prevention plans???? The dems are too busy trying to figure out where they will abscond more free handouts and transport to give them face instead of offering their "most esteemed / invaluable" flood prevention wisdom in which they didn't bother bringing forth with EVER!

[masterbiker49]

Yeah satisfying, but only because it served the purpose of "protecting Bangkok while the rest of the Nation provinces are gonna suffer bigger time"…

Correct because this is only a populist game that does not address the real problem. This drainage of the BKK canals is PT-window dressing and peanuts to what really has to be addressed in terms of discharge.

Let's wait & see how there drainage works with a tidal storm surge & high tide together,Venice of Asia anyone????

[Thai at Heart]

Thai at Heart said:

"Well man got to the moon with less computing power than an I phone, and the Thai govt still needs to do full scale real tests?"

By your short, curt reply here (as in most replies from semi-rabid to rabid anti-govt posters), am I to presume that past govts "got it right" the first time with flood control??? Dead silence here....... To the best of my knowledge, this is the very first time the govt has asked for a "test" to be performed. Don't you Yingluck bashers think that some more data (achieved by Thais) is AT LEAST a positive action for getting hands-on experience and data compilation for extending more flood prevention plans???? The dems are too busy trying to figure out where they will abscond more free handouts and transport to give them face instead of offering their "most esteemed / invaluable" flood prevention wisdom in which they didn't bother bringing forth with EVER!

If you think I am criticising only this government for the mess that Bangkok is, I am not. However, it sits with this one to come up with a plan and REALLY implement it.

We are told that last years flood was the 4th most costly natural disaster in the history of man. You would think that they swallow their pride for just a minute and take every single bit of advice, knowledge, technology, they could from the world's best to solve this issue. Lest we forget, they can't even agree to allow NASA in to do a weather study.

About 15 mn people's lives depend on the solution, and whilst, the best solution if you want to have zero flooding in Bangkok, would be to move it 100%, the efforts we see so far have been marred with political fighting with the Bangkok governor, filled with corruption and apparent mai bpen arai, with a good dose of nimbyism.

It is so typical that instead of taking advice from the world's best, we will be greeted with an in house Thai solution that will be achieved by trial and error, domestic political point scoring, on an issue that is of PARAMOUNT national interest. Why must we be regaled with stories that amount to nothing better than re-inventing the wheel, and high school experiments. It is possible to create a truly integrated and greatly improved system, its just we are in Thailand, and this is the way it is.

They are sitting there openly admitting that they have a channel that goes from 45 cubic a minute to 10 cubic per minute, and the apparent solution is? Who allowed it to be built this way? Who is going to propose a very logical solution to the problem which is to make the channel bigger? Who is going to stump up the money to do it? Who is going to stump up the money to move those affected to new places?

If you want a solution, these are the issues that need solutions, not dredging the canals and putting up walls. I have been here a while, and intend to be here a lot longer. I will remember the name of this channel and wait for its name to appear in the papers as the first place to flood be it in 3, 5 or 15 years time, and will read the headlines, with everyone wondering, how did they manage to spend so much money and not tackle this issue. Bla Bla Bla.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[h90]

I get your point for this one. Yes it would help small area. Thank you.

together with smart water management, which takes the necessary steps long ahead before the floods are happening it is one more helpful resource.

if the government makes complete nonsense the canals won't safe the day.

If they would like to do something they could lay a big tube north south. A tube that isn't open so water pressure can be build up and speed everything up. Don't know the height differences but if they could do 5-10 meter than it would be 0.5-1 bar.....

It won't solve the problem entirely. If you plot the rainfall intensities for the entire Chao Pharaya catchments in hourly time step during flood period you will see an average flow of 17,000-20,000 cubic meters per second that can extent over the entire period 7-10 days. If you monitor closely hour by hour you will definitely see typical flow as high as 170,000-200,000 cubic meters per second but last less than 8 hours. It is not going to be easy to deal with these huge amount of discharges if you don't have mean to store it. It is a matter of fact these kind are the flow that cause major floods.

F.I.Y the Chao Pharaya at best can take up to 3,300 cubic meters per second before somebody gets wet.

Of course, yes. There is no single solution...Just many things that work together so at the end there is a minimum of floods. I think as long as the responsible person put boats in the canals to push the water out with their propellers, the priority 1 investment should be made into some brains :-)

[h90]

The river boat idea on itself isn't silly at all. Think of a canal and imagine that they would make a massive steel bridge and mount on it full with 300 HP boot engines with deep propeller and let them run full speed. You would put in a lot kinetic energy that really causes higher water level after the engines. Of course you must put a lot energy in and have it over the complete cross/section to prevent back-flow. but it could be made.

these 2 boats on the picture are of course nonsense.

Well, it isn't silly, it is idiotic. What you ignore in your argument is the viscosity of water. That means ,in simple terms, that every water particle that isn't accelerated by your propellers (and that would be the majority) will slow down immediately all those few that were accelerated. Add to that the friction along the river bed (there is a boundary layer with a speed of zero), the propeller cavitation, flow dynamics, or toss a model ship out on a lake on a calm day and guess whether it will stop after a short distance or glide on at a steady speed until it reaches the opposite bank.

If Khun Plodprasob was right he would have invented the "perpetuum mobile" (neverending motion). But he isn't.

I think there could be even situations that the disturbance due to the backflow and the boats cause that actually less water is moving than without the boats that push....

[MaxLee]

Didn't the government have enough time to test the their canals since their huge announcement from 8 months ago, and I visited that forum before my actual graduation

They had that huge forum, sponsored by Bangkok Post, in which they showed IMMENSE planning structures and long term plans, and whatsoever,.... so why test now??? If they could have done it earlier.

That shows me that this forum was just for show, and then everybody in Thailand just forgets about it, so does the governement. Just move forward in readjusting charter in the Pheu Thai favors, punish Lady Gaga's schemes, providing useless school tablets to children, accidently shooting innocent people dead in unprotected restaurant facilities, bailing out high status Thai personalities when they committed a crime You see, everything can be easily forgotten in the mids of corruption....