Like It Or Not, Corruption Is The Name Of The Game In Thailand

[spidermike007]

... It is a society of 13 year old boys, in men's bodies, who behave like 13 year old boys, and have the emotional development of 13 year old boys. I am sure there are some exceptions. Maybe 11% of the society? LOL.

While you are largely correct on this, I think perhaps the age is too high and the sex is wrong.

Yes, there is some truth to that. But, I really believe that although they would have you believe otherwise, this entire country is run by women. I believe they control the finances of most families, and they are the power behind the wall. Thai men would never in a hundred years admit to that, but the sad fact is that there are so few Thai men who have the level head, the sensibility, the common sense, the rationale, nor the intelligence to run a family properly. So, the women do it. I think the women in Thailand are far superior to the men, on so many levels. And they are more capable on many levels too.

[spidermike007]

As much as I've experienced and unhappy with the corruption problem in Thailand, it becomes a normal way of life when more than 2/3 of people don't take it as a problem. Pathetic, though.

And the scary part, is that on so many levels, it feels as if Thailand is going backwards. I wish I could say the future looked bright for this lovely country, but I simply cannot see it. Here are just a few of the reasons I feel this way:

1. Declining educational standards, especially when compared to other countries in the region, who take education seriously.

2. Lack of a fight against corruption. Malaysia, Indonesia, China, Vietnam, and even to a smaller extent India, and the Philippines are at least waging a battle. Here, the anti corruption chief was just relieved of his job, as he was too effective, and was getting to close to the centers of power!

3. The competence of the government. Since the system here is entirely based on cronyism, and not meritocracy, there is little chance of getting people to do jobs they are good at. It is that simple. Incompetence is the order of the day. Always has been. Always will be, if the system does not change.

4. Flooding issues. They are only going to get worse with global warming, and the rising of the sea, and is Thailand prepared for it? They have refused help from the Dutch govt. (very talented and skilled engineers, with decades of experience), the US Corp. of Engineers, and others. Is the govt. really serious about tackling this issue? Do they have what it takes? Are they willing to reach out, or will they use only homegrown talent, which is substandard?

5. Shrinking economy. Thailand was #21 in the world just 5 years ago. They are now #25. This trend will continue. There is little being done to reverse it.

6. Traffic issues. Thailand has some of the most lax driving laws in the world. No helmets required in Samui, and 10 year old kids are permitted to drive motorbikes. Speed limits are rarely enforced, and anyone with some cash can buy their way out of any traffic related problem or accident, even if it caused death. Samui averages 60 traffic related deaths per month! Highest in the world, per capita. Not something you see in the media much. Nobody wants to discuss it.

7. That brings us to issue #7. Law enforcement. The police in Thailand are basically a revenue collection agency. Very, very little law enforcement. The quality of the detective work, and the forensic work is on par with Sub Saharan Africa, from what I have been told by well informed sources in law enforcement, outside of Thailand. For the #25 economy in the world, this is shameful, and the result of tremendous sloth, indifference, corruption, and ineptitude. Regardless, it remains one of the truly great blights, in this otherwise delightful country.

8. Local mores, ethics, and attitudes. Though the Thai people have many wonderful qualities, that many of us appreciate, their attitudes toward business, and tourism are hard to fathom. They nearly always, will choose to do the wrong thing, when it comes to customer service, or maintaining a relationship, if it means a few extra baht today. No ability to see the forest beyond the trees. Very, very little of the vision thing. It is a tremendous detriment to doing business here, and in the long run damages the tourism industry to a fabulous extent.

9. Tourism. For the above stated reasons, there is a real PR problem, when it comes to Thai tourism. The governments, both central, and local seem to be either unwilling, or unable to tackle the issues with taxis, tuk-tuks, jet skis, and other scams here, and it is resulting in huge damage to the industry. They are making up for it to some extent by attracting the Russian, Chinese, and Korean markets, but these are not the high rollers that Thailand need to thrive in the long run.

10. Saving face. Perhaps Thailand's single most destructive quality. It forces people to bury problems under the carpet. How can you resolve an issue, if it causes you embarrassment? Who cares. Suck it up, man up, and deal with it. Not here. Not now. Rarely ever. Avoid the issue, whatever you do, do not discuss it, and pretend it will go away. It is a society of 13 year old boys, in men's bodies, who behave like 13 year old boys, and have the emotional development of 13 year old boys. I am sure there are some exceptions. Maybe 11% of the society? LOL.

And yet... Bangkok receives World's Best City Award 2012

Well, Bangkok is a great city despite all the nonsense, is it not?

[spidermike007]

Thailand is the master of the universe when it comes to the sex trade. The sex trade sets the bar for social thought and behavior. As long as society tolerates rampant pervasive participation in the sex trade by all levels of society whether declared professional or free lancer, then it's open season on a corrupted philosophy with limited values. The sex trade was really the first "international" scale enterprise of Thailand. Where foreigners would actually plan to travel here for sex. Long before that, Thailand specialized in sex trade for its domestic customers which geometrically dwarfs foreign sex trade today. Secondly, Thailand's history of cash real estate investment, sex trade and other black economy money sourced through the drug trade hub in Bangkok clearly links links the "corruption" factor.

The Thai "culture" of corruption and its escalation are its prescription for becoming an official "failed state" with endless refills. No other country takes Thailand seriously as a "legitimate" business partner and camps in here because they can freely play the corruption, payoff, bribery scheme with cheap labor and limited benefits or negative ramifications and bought off politicians and government organizations. Because everything can be bought out for a lower cost than the cost of making it right. Thailand's "Mr. 20%s" start out right away slicing in to a new business venture's margins right after a BOI intro or even before. Then comes the squeezing of profits at the expense of safety, benefits, and fair play with employees.

As this philosophy of corruption continues to eat away at government, police and military organizations, they become less and less able or willing to enforce law. The less that they enforce law, the more complacent about it all the regular folks get. The state then escalates to a Fascist type regime, and shortly thereafter becomes an "official" failed state. Thailand already meets many of the prerequisites for defining a failed state.

I cannot agree to that.

Try murder, rape, robbery, drugs, paedophilia, and you will realize that Thailand is able to enforce its laws (with the constraints of its resources).

This corruption is mainly applied to victimless crimes.

And, so as my friends in Thailand, I prefer this type of lifestyle to the one in our country. The police offer some flexibility instead of facing the official route of resolving legal conflicts. And the majority in Thailand prefer that as well.

I tend to disagree with you about this. A friend of mine who runs major foundation dedicated to helping people with HIV in Thailand, told me the numbers indicate the sex trade in the US is far larger than in Thailand. It is just underground. In Thailand it is all there for you to see it. But, in the US, between the escorts, the strippers, the adult porn biz, massage services, etc., there are far more sex workers than in Thailand. She is very well informed, and has the assets of several NGO's and Aid organizations at her disposal, so she is not just throwing this stuff out there. Hard for many of us to believe, but the facts support this. Also, in the US you have millions of women who are willing to have sex for dinner, a car, a gift, or some other form of

compensation, but it is not called prostitution for some reason.

[spidermike007]

I don't know why we should make such a big deal of this. Corruption is what drives US conservative politics, drags the rest of the world into horrific conflicts, and rapes the 3rd World of it's resources. Relatively speaking, Thai corruption is for the most part localised. US corruption global.

This is spot on. Corruption exists everywhere and it's like a cancer that's destroying everything. In China, where corruption appears to me to be much mover vicious than here, most everyone accepts it and engages in it with the justification that they are getting so screwed from above that they needs to screw over anyone else they can just to break even.

In China you need to pay a bribe to get a good job.

However, as Technikall pointed out, we have corruption in America as well, which cause the economic crisis. All that crooked banking was extremely corrupt, and they got away with it. The difference is that we are much better at hiding our corruption in America. In Asia sometimes people flaunt being corrupt to show their power. Obviously, in America one isn't expected to pay a bribe to get a job, but there are other ways to cheat, exploit and take advantage of the less privileged and fortunate.

Lobbying is the greatest form of corruption on the planet, and it is perfectly legal, due to the prostitutes working in the US Senate and Congress.

[market trader]

Is it really corruption if it is accepted and common? Corruption is like rules and laws in that the majority only have problems with either if they hurt or hinder them but tend to enjoy them when they benefit them.

Most of the Thais get a few crumbs from the cake at voting time..The red shirts gave all my wifes family 1000 bahts eachto vote for them. Being good Thais they accepted the 1000 bahts and then voted for the yellow shirts.

[belg]

it is the thai way of trying to enrich yourself as quick as possible, corruption, drugs, illegal gambling, prostitution and enslaved, all part of the act

[AleG]

What a pathetic thread.

Seems some people leave their principles when the arrive at the airport. If they ever had them.

[hellodolly]

What a pathetic thread.

Seems some people leave their principles when the arrive at the airport. If they ever had them.

I firmly believe a lot of them come here because they were not wanted where they came from.

[hellodolly]

I don't know why we should make such a big deal of this. Corruption is what drives US conservative politics, drags the rest of the world into horrific conflicts, and rapes the 3rd World of it's resources. Relatively speaking, Thai corruption is for the most part localised. US corruption global.

This is spot on. Corruption exists everywhere and it's like a cancer that's destroying everything. In China, where corruption appears to me to be much mover vicious than here, most everyone accepts it and engages in it with the justification that they are getting so screwed from above that they needs to screw over anyone else they can just to break even.

In China you need to pay a bribe to get a good job.

However, as Technikall pointed out, we have corruption in America as well, which cause the economic crisis. All that crooked banking was extremely corrupt, and they got away with it. The difference is that we are much better at hiding our corruption in America. In Asia sometimes people flaunt being corrupt to show their power. Obviously, in America one isn't expected to pay a bribe to get a job, but there are other ways to cheat, exploit and take advantage of the less privileged and fortunate.

Is it really your claim that only the banking system in America was wrong and it is all their fault the world went into a depression. If it is you are in a lot of company. I personally think you are all very very short on facts. You know a few and nothing else.

[hellodolly]

Thailand is the master of the universe when it comes to the sex trade. The sex trade sets the bar for social thought and behavior. As long as society tolerates rampant pervasive participation in the sex trade by all levels of society whether declared professional or free lancer, then it's open season on a corrupted philosophy with limited values. The sex trade was really the first "international" scale enterprise of Thailand. Where foreigners would actually plan to travel here for sex. Long before that, Thailand specialized in sex trade for its domestic customers which geometrically dwarfs foreign sex trade today. Secondly, Thailand's history of cash real estate investment, sex trade and other black economy money sourced through the drug trade hub in Bangkok clearly links links the "corruption" factor.

The Thai "culture" of corruption and its escalation are its prescription for becoming an official "failed state" with endless refills. No other country takes Thailand seriously as a "legitimate" business partner and camps in here because they can freely play the corruption, payoff, bribery scheme with cheap labor and limited benefits or negative ramifications and bought off politicians and government organizations. Because everything can be bought out for a lower cost than the cost of making it right. Thailand's "Mr. 20%s" start out right away slicing in to a new business venture's margins right after a BOI intro or even before. Then comes the squeezing of profits at the expense of safety, benefits, and fair play with employees.

As this philosophy of corruption continues to eat away at government, police and military organizations, they become less and less able or willing to enforce law. The less that they enforce law, the more complacent about it all the regular folks get. The state then escalates to a Fascist type regime, and shortly thereafter becomes an "official" failed state. Thailand already meets many of the prerequisites for defining a failed state.

I cannot agree to that.

Try murder, rape, robbery, drugs, paedophilia, and you will realize that Thailand is able to enforce its laws (with the constraints of its resources).

This corruption is mainly applied to victimless crimes.

And, so as my friends in Thailand, I prefer this type of lifestyle to the one in our country. The police offer some flexibility instead of facing the official route of resolving legal conflicts. And the majority in Thailand prefer that as well.

I know it is a small thing but I enjoy crossing the street when there is no traffic coming even if the light is red. If I take a Thai there he will have crossed the street and be standing over there wondering if I am all rite.

I enjoy taking some responsibility for my own life. If I walk down the side walk I have to pay attention or I could get hurt with no one to blame but myself. In North America why pay attention if I get hurt it is some one else's fault and I can sue them.

[billd766]

Not disagreeing with you regards transitioning to a western style service delivery model and the resultant outcomes

<snip>

Personally I love going to some islands or other real tourist spots and not seeing any police and where people are free to work out there own issues and dealings and 99% of the time in a mutually satisfactory way. Sure it has some negative compared to were I am from and where you can go 5-minutes without see a cop looking to enforce (fine) somebody for breaking a law such as crossing a street in a non-cross walk.

<snip>

Nisa I live in rural Thailand where the nearest city of any size is Khampaeng Phet 65 km away.

In the 8 years I have lived up here no cops have ever tried to get money from me or stop me for an offence that I haven't committed.

If you need to talk to a cop you can with no fear of something being slipped in your pocket and you being arrested etc. Up here the police live in the community and out in the rural areas they know more or less who is who, good and bad and leave the good people alone.

The downside is that there isn't much to do but it is nicer and safer than living in a farang ghetto in a big city.

[FarangTalk]

And in the west it is a more expensive "Expedite" or "Rush" fee imposed that goes to the corporation ... same same but more obvious here, less expensive and benefits a commoner.

Then it is not corruption, it is an additional fee.

If a company does not have an additional fee, and money to expedite a service goes into an employee's pocket, it is corruption and a criminal act.

Quite simple.

Kind of like when using my air mileage, I would much prefer to pay somebody a few buck and help out some low paying worker than to have to use double my earned mileage to fly sometime in this millenium.

Nothing like using your air mileage.

But again, not to worry, these small fees you can pay now to workers to get improved service will soon be much larger fees going directly to the corporations (to avoid corruption) ... clearly this is what so many people (expats) want ... they fled the west to come to Thailand with the goal of whining non-stop until things here become like the place they fled and as the do the curmudgeons will whine about the good ole days in Thailand and when things were simple and a couple extra baht under the table could get you preferred treatment and services.

A new low for you, defending corruption when it is apparent you have little understanding of it nor comprehend the damage it does to society and individuals.

I sincerely hope you are never affected by it.

[FarangTalk]

You want to talk about soulless countries ... take a look at Singapore, one of the least corrupt countries in the world. A country that lacks any real character and filled with expressionless people moving from point A to point B.

What unadulterated nonsense!

Singapore has loads of character and in it's own right is an amazing place. I know (and work with) loads of Singaporeans most with a lot more character than most Thais!

It has an amalgamation of many cultures living together in relative harmony.

[Phronesis]

Why should I worry about corruption?

I shop at Tesco, so don't deal with dual pricing issues

I have all of my car and motorbike tax and insurance completed by a trustyworthy agent so as to avoid the transport office all together

I rent so as to safe guard my capital and to avoid the land office

I have a long term partner (who is devine) but she understands I will never marry

I never go to bars and have absolutely no intention of my girl owning one

I abide by Thai law

I do not work in Thailand and live off the income generated by my offshore investments

I am here to enjoy my quiet little life with my beautiful girl, eat great food, and waste my life away in, and on, the Andaman sea

I didn't give a moments thought to the corrupt self interested grubs in politics and policing back in Australia. Why would I give any thought to their brethren here in Thailand?

Endeavouring to reconcile epistemology, with the nebulous metaphysics that comprise morality, is a fool's quest.

Tell me again why I should concern myself with corruption in Thailand?

[cup-O-coffee]

I think the funny thing is that they do not address the issue of what it is that tempers their corruption from going wholesale. That would be an interesting poll... to find out what it is that they do not want to violate, and that which would suffer at the cost of being corrupt on a wholesale scale.

I cannot for the life of me imagine what good thing they feel they would lose out of this, and that has not already been extinguished or prevented from coming into being by over 2000 years of this sort of behavior and beliefs.

And finally, what sort of scale of measure are they basing this corruption on? Is it that they actually think that there is a difference of a little -vs- a lot in the effects it has on a persons development? That is sheer and absolute ignorance and stupidity and their heads are on backwards.

[indyuk]

There are several things that are astonishing about this article. If such a survey does not include representative samples from the Military, the Police force, the Civil servants and elected officials (MPs, Poo Jai Baan, Governors, Mayors) it is worthless.

[Nisa]

Is it really corruption if it is accepted and common? Corruption is like rules and laws in that the majority only have problems with either if they hurt or hinder them but tend to enjoy them when they benefit them.

Most of the Thais get a few crumbs from the cake at voting time..The red shirts gave all my wifes family 1000 bahts eachto vote for them. Being good Thais they accepted the 1000 bahts and then voted for the yellow shirts.

Kind of like a double reverse corruption

[Nisa]

And in the west it is a more expensive "Expedite" or "Rush" fee imposed that goes to the corporation ... same same but more obvious here, less expensive and benefits a commoner.

Then it is not corruption, it is an additional fee.

If a company does not have an additional fee, and money to expedite a service goes into an employee's pocket, it is corruption and a criminal act.

Quite simple.

Kind of like when using my air mileage, I would much prefer to pay somebody a few buck and help out some low paying worker than to have to use double my earned mileage to fly sometime in this millenium.

Nothing like using your air mileage.

But again, not to worry, these small fees you can pay now to workers to get improved service will soon be much larger fees going directly to the corporations (to avoid corruption) ... clearly this is what so many people (expats) want ... they fled the west to come to Thailand with the goal of whining non-stop until things here become like the place they fled and as the do the curmudgeons will whine about the good ole days in Thailand and when things were simple and a couple extra baht under the table could get you preferred treatment and services.

A new low for you, defending corruption when it is apparent you have little understanding of it nor comprehend the damage it does to society and individuals.

I sincerely hope you are never affected by it.

Is there a SingaporeVisa forum? If so, it sounds like you'd actually be able to have something positive to say there

[FarangTalk]

Is there a SingaporeVisa forum? If so, it sounds like you'd actually be able to have something positive to say there

I have plenty of positive things to say about Thailand however corruption isn't one of them.

There's no need for a Singapore visa forum either. Their visa and employment pass system is one of the most modern in the World, is easy to understand thus there's no need for expats to discuss circumventing laws or bending rules in order to obtain visas, become temporary or permanent residents or operate businesses or work legally.

[hellodolly]

Why should I worry about corruption?

I shop at Tesco, so don't deal with dual pricing issues

I have all of my car and motorbike tax and insurance completed by a trustyworthy agent so as to avoid the transport office all together

I rent so as to safe guard my capital and to avoid the land office

I have a long term partner (who is devine) but she understands I will never marry

I never go to bars and have absolutely no intention of my girl owning one

I abide by Thai law

I do not work in Thailand and live off the income generated by my offshore investments

I am here to enjoy my quiet little life with my beautiful girl, eat great food, and waste my life away in, and on, the Andaman sea

I didn't give a moments thought to the corrupt self interested grubs in politics and policing back in Australia. Why would I give any thought to their brethren here in Thailand?

Endeavouring to reconcile epistemology, with the nebulous metaphysics that comprise morality, is a fool's quest.

Tell me again why I should concern myself with corruption in Thailand?

Well for the most part I have to agree with you.

But as concerning myself with corruption in Thailand while it does not affect me any more than it did back in North America it does bother me to see the lack of education and therefore a chance to better the lives of the Thais.

If the money earmarked for education went into it the Thai over all knowledge would improve and eventually get to the point where they could have real teacher's in all the class rooms. Not just some of them. It is a time consuming process but it would deliver remarkable results in the next generation or two. Thailand would be a lot different if they had started spending all the money earmarked for education on education back in 1980.

My wife is under strict instructions to come to me when it comes to matters involving education in her family. I put my money where my mouth is and expect no return. That will come after this old body has departed this plane of assistance. In the mean time I can feel good about helping some people get what they should have gotten from the government.

[Nisa]

Is there a SingaporeVisa forum? If so, it sounds like you'd actually be able to have something positive to say there

I have plenty of positive things to say about Thailand however corruption isn't one of them.

There's no need for a Singapore visa forum either. Their visa and employment pass system is one of the most modern in the World, is easy to understand thus there's no need for expats to discuss circumventing laws or bending rules in order to obtain visas, become temporary or permanent residents or operate businesses or work legally.

Expats circumventing laws??? As in corruption?

[indyuk]

A poll and a result Thailand should not want. But it is endemic, growing (obviously) as there are no enforcement personnel who can (or will do), anything about it. Som Num Na. Looking back over Thai history Thai's do not deserve half of what they have. If they took out the corruption issue they would be financially far stronger than Japan but they are simply happy to stay with the 'system' and no question. The word "buffaloes" comes to mind since that is how they refer to the stupid. Seems that covers at least 65% of the population according to the poll.

I don't think that what you have written is fair. Corruption is a significant characteristic of all Asian culture. That coincidentally includes the Japanese too. The problem is that the law makers keep the penalties for getting caught when corrupting the system very modest. If one could change the system to make it possible to live a better life without being corrupt most Asians would reform and desist from a corrupt lifestyle. In Thailand the reverse seems to have happened in the sense that the most corrupt in the community are revered and that my friend will be very difficult to resolve.

[saroq]

Not really surprising when the average person sees those who are supposed to set and example and be looked up to taking bribes quite openly. It also doesn't help that the average person is not paid a wage that can provide a reasonable level of comfort and the ability to save a little for unexpected events.

[indyuk]

Is it really corruption if it is accepted and common? Corruption is like rules and laws in that the majority only have problems with either if they hurt or hinder them but tend to enjoy them when they benefit them.

Most of the Thais get a few crumbs from the cake at voting time..The red shirts gave all my wifes family 1000 bahts eachto vote for them. Being good Thais they accepted the 1000 bahts and then voted for the yellow shirts.

You seem happy about that. But by taking the bribe and then voting for the opposition means that their corruption knows no limit. I should watch you back young man.

[Nisa]

Is it really corruption if it is accepted and common? Corruption is like rules and laws in that the majority only have problems with either if they hurt or hinder them but tend to enjoy them when they benefit them.

Most of the Thais get a few crumbs from the cake at voting time..The red shirts gave all my wifes family 1000 bahts eachto vote for them. Being good Thais they accepted the 1000 bahts and then voted for the yellow shirts.

You seem happy about that. But by taking the bribe and then voting for the opposition means that their corruption knows no limit. I should watch you back young man.

Dishonest corruption!!?!?. What are things coming to. I mean when the little guy sticks it to a corrupt political party, while putting a few baht in his/her pocket, surely it is time to move to western and legalized corruption to make sure only the guys on the top make out.

[SunsetT]

Perhaps, if thais could be persuaded to become buddhists, corruption would disappear?

NO no, this is not thai bashing - just read the other thread about corruption,where all posters are farangs....

Yes...........I wish Thai TV translated into English what the head honcho monks are preaching on so many channels. I am so curious to know what they are teaching, as it sure as hell cannot be the good values to live by that the Buddha taught such as 'Right Speech, Right Thought, Right Action, Right Livelihood, etc.

[Chads]

As much as I've experienced and unhappy with the corruption problem in Thailand, it becomes a normal way of life when more than 2/3 of people don't take it as a problem. Pathetic, though.

And the scary part, is that on so many levels, it feels as if Thailand is going backwards. I wish I could say the future looked bright for this lovely country, but I simply cannot see it. Here are just a few of the reasons I feel this way:

1. Declining educational standards, especially when compared to other countries in the region, who take education seriously.

2. Lack of a fight against corruption. Malaysia, Indonesia, China, Vietnam, and even to a smaller extent India, and the Philippines are at least waging a battle. Here, the anti corruption chief was just relieved of his job, as he was too effective, and was getting to close to the centers of power!

3. The competence of the government. Since the system here is entirely based on cronyism, and not meritocracy, there is little chance of getting people to do jobs they are good at. It is that simple. Incompetence is the order of the day. Always has been. Always will be, if the system does not change.

4. Flooding issues. They are only going to get worse with global warming, and the rising of the sea, and is Thailand prepared for it? They have refused help from the Dutch govt. (very talented and skilled engineers, with decades of experience), the US Corp. of Engineers, and others. Is the govt. really serious about tackling this issue? Do they have what it takes? Are they willing to reach out, or will they use only homegrown talent, which is substandard?

5. Shrinking economy. Thailand was #21 in the world just 5 years ago. They are now #25. This trend will continue. There is little being done to reverse it.

6. Traffic issues. Thailand has some of the most lax driving laws in the world. No helmets required in Samui, and 10 year old kids are permitted to drive motorbikes. Speed limits are rarely enforced, and anyone with some cash can buy their way out of any traffic related problem or accident, even if it caused death. Samui averages 60 traffic related deaths per month! Highest in the world, per capita. Not something you see in the media much. Nobody wants to discuss it.

7. That brings us to issue #7. Law enforcement. The police in Thailand are basically a revenue collection agency. Very, very little law enforcement. The quality of the detective work, and the forensic work is on par with Sub Saharan Africa, from what I have been told by well informed sources in law enforcement, outside of Thailand. For the #25 economy in the world, this is shameful, and the result of tremendous sloth, indifference, corruption, and ineptitude. Regardless, it remains one of the truly great blights, in this otherwise delightful country.

8. Local mores, ethics, and attitudes. Though the Thai people have many wonderful qualities, that many of us appreciate, their attitudes toward business, and tourism are hard to fathom. They nearly always, will choose to do the wrong thing, when it comes to customer service, or maintaining a relationship, if it means a few extra baht today. No ability to see the forest beyond the trees. Very, very little of the vision thing. It is a tremendous detriment to doing business here, and in the long run damages the tourism industry to a fabulous extent.

9. Tourism. For the above stated reasons, there is a real PR problem, when it comes to Thai tourism. The governments, both central, and local seem to be either unwilling, or unable to tackle the issues with taxis, tuk-tuks, jet skis, and other scams here, and it is resulting in huge damage to the industry. They are making up for it to some extent by attracting the Russian, Chinese, and Korean markets, but these are not the high rollers that Thailand need to thrive in the long run.

10. Saving face. Perhaps Thailand's single most destructive quality. It forces people to bury problems under the carpet. How can you resolve an issue, if it causes you embarrassment? Who cares. Suck it up, man up, and deal with it. Not here. Not now. Rarely ever. Avoid the issue, whatever you do, do not discuss it, and pretend it will go away. It is a society of 13 year old boys, in men's bodies, who behave like 13 year old boys, and have the emotional development of 13 year old boys. I am sure there are some exceptions. Maybe 11% of the society? LOL.

And yet... Bangkok receives World's Best City Award 2012

Well, Bangkok is a great city despite all the nonsense, is it not?

Yes, and it can get even better if it sorts those things out, as you have rightly noted.

[SunsetT]

Is it really corruption if it is accepted and common? Corruption is like rules and laws in that the majority only have problems with either if they hurt or hinder them but tend to enjoy them when they benefit them.

Most of the Thais get a few crumbs from the cake at voting time..The red shirts gave all my wifes family 1000 bahts eachto vote for them. Being good Thais they accepted the 1000 bahts and then voted for the yellow shirts.

Its seems that the election time bribery was so rife in the past that it all cancelled itself out anyway. My girlfriend said that everybody she knew in Udon Thani just accepted the bribes offered by all the parties, and then voted for whoever they wanted to vote for anyway.

[Chads]

Is it really corruption if it is accepted and common? Corruption is like rules and laws in that the majority only have problems with either if they hurt or hinder them but tend to enjoy them when they benefit them.

Most of the Thais get a few crumbs from the cake at voting time..The red shirts gave all my wifes family 1000 bahts eachto vote for them. Being good Thais they accepted the 1000 bahts and then voted for the yellow shirts.

Its seems that the election time bribery was so rife in the past that it all cancelled itself out anyway. My girlfriend said that everybody she knew in Udon Thani just accepted the bribes offered by all the parties, and then voted for whoever they wanted to vote for anyway.

That's great! Beat them at their own game.

[ttelise]

Interesting discusion. Whether or not corruption is the way of life in Thailand should not make it right. Condoning corruption is simply endorsing dishonest, manipulative conduct and a way of life that lacks integrity and accountability. There is a profound difference between acknolweding the problem and attempting to rationalize, excuse or justifiy corruption as somehow being a positive. The latter would reflect a complete lack of moral or principals.

The vast majority of the problems people complain about in Thailand all emanate from corruption. How can or should one have faith in those sworn to uphold the law when they (those sworn to uphold the law) have zero integrity, are corrupt and only concerned about their own self interests. Tea money is a just a cutesy, but dishonest spin on what really is just a bribe. Be a man. Call it what it is. BRIBE, greed, and etc.

The problems with rice, flood prevention, no real punishment for murder or mansaulghter, unequal treatment under the law, no confidence in the political system or the judiciary, buildings not meeting proper codes leading to deaths, non compliance with or enforcement of fire code, holes in air port runways, tourism scams with no consequence for the scammers, no confidence in whether the vote is reflective of people's true wants, no accountability for business people or politicians who hide behind an archiac defamation law when challnged with the truth, polution and toxic waste dumps, immigration issues, dishonesty about economy or GDP to scam foreign investors, human trafficking and human rights violations, and idiocy like the oops I accidentally shot my exwife with an uzzie at the dinner table defense all emenate from corruption.

Taking money to vote is and should be a crime. Not okay even if everyone is doing it. Then voting the other way is just dishonest. The problem is that judgment has gotten to be so clouded people apparently can no longer discren/disntiguish right from wrong any more. This attitude perpetutes the problem on a smaller scale and opens the door for more damaging corruption on a larger scale.

And no, the West is not like this. You can try and tell yourself it is all you want, but it is not even close. I know of some issues in small town Kentuck that had some vote buying like Thailand and all those people ended up in jail. Judges, cops, poll workes, politicians. Everyone involved. In jail. Stuff may happen here, but it is not tolerated. Contrary to Thailand where it is not only tolerated, but people boast about it and laugh about it.

Perhaps people run to Thailand to escape consequences of living without integrity in their former country and can appreciate the ability to live without intgretity and consequences in Thailand. I dunno. Does not make it right. Strive for more and raise your standards if you think corrpution is cute, okay and acceptable.