Rain, Not Run-Off, Main Threat To Bangkok, Says Expert

[webfact]

Rain, not run-off, main threat to Bangkok, says expert

Chularat Saengpassa,

Pongphon Sarnsamak,

Panya Tiewsangwarn,

Prapasri Osathanon

The Nation

Buddhist monks, novices and residents of a community in Sukhothai yesterday clean up the grounds of Wat Thai Chumpol after flood waters receded.

BANGKOK: -- Run-off water from upstream zones will raise the level of the Chao Phraya River in Bangkok by just 3-4 centimetres, a prominent water expert working for the government said yesterday.

To Royol Chitdon, director of the Hydro and Agro Infomatics Institute, continued downpours over Bangkok are clearly more of a threat than the run-off.

"Bangkok residents should be worried about rainfall rather than the run-off water," he said. Royol sits on a sub-panel of the Water and Flood Management Commission (WFMC).

The Meteorological Department forecast rain and downpours for many areas of the country, including the Central region, from yesterday through next Tuesday.

Bangkok Governor MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra said separately that the capital's drainage system was capable of dealing with heavy downpours and river overflow.

Sukhumbhand said the city administration would not object to a plan by WFMC chairman Plodprasob Surassawadee, who is also the science minister, to direct a certain amount of water to the sea via Bangkok.

"But please don't use Bangkok as a floodway. The available system can't deal with run-off water," he said.

So far, the overflowing Chao Phraya River has flooded several areas of Angthong province, which have been declared disaster zones.

Hundreds of families living along the main river in the province's Pa Moke, Wiset Chai Chan, Muang Angthong, Chaiyo and Pho Thong districts are struggling with inundation.

"The Chao Phraya Dam in Chai Nat has released more water into the river," Angthong's disaster prevention and mitigation chief, Chatnarong Siriporn na Ratchasima, said yesterday.

First Army Region chief Lt-General Udomdej Sitabutr, meanwhile, inspected the flood situation in Pa Moke district.

The armed forces, according to Defence Minister Sukampol Suwannathat, have been working closely with the government on flood-prevention and flood-relief operations.

"The leaking embankment in Sukhothai has already been fixed," he said. "We are making necessary preparations for Bangkok too."

Although Sukampol did not name specific areas, he hinted that some areas such as industrial estates would be fiercely protected while some flood-prone areas would be inundated. He said it would not be possible to keep some low-lying areas dry as they had flooded during certain periods of every year for decades anyway.

Niwatchai Khamphee, deputy director-general of the Water Resources Department, said work on the three-year Yom-Nan River Basin Development Plan was just 20 per cent complete.

"Work done to date may not be able to prevent provinces in the basins from flooding during the wet season this year," he said.

Located in the Yom River Basin are Phrae, Sukhothai, Uttaradit and Phitsanulok provinces. Farmlands in these provinces often flood during the wet season and suffer from drought during the dry season.

-- The Nation 2012-09-15

[BookMan]

Rain or run off, it is still water.

Hardly matters where the water comes from if you are flooded.

[dcutman]

This is how Bangkok relieves flooding problems

This is how New Orleans relieves their flooding problems

World’s largest water pump moves 150,000 gallons per second

Posted on May 11th, 2011 by Jake Adams 7 Comments

The world’s largest water pump is not just a big mag drive with a huge sticker price, it also plans to be a safeguard against rising floodwater in New Orleans. At $500 million for the entire installation,

It is time for these politicians to stop stealing spending money procuring worthless equipment, and get serious about flood prevention. Not only for the benefit of Bangkok, but for all the communities up river that have to be sacrificed for Bangkok to stay dry. They have already spent 8x the amount that something like this cost, for very little to show for it.

[kurnell]

So many Thai experts. So few results.

[BrianCR]

After extensive research by the Thai Government, a way of dealing with the rainfall and so saving the capital from flooding has been found. Residents, especially pot bellied beer drinkers, are being requested to place plastic containers outside of their properties and during heavy rains to quickly drink the contents, this will have the effect of reducing local flooding. The Government will (as usual) deal with all the extra p*ss and sh** produced by making Bangkok a new hub

[MaxLee]

In other words, I'd say run off water AND rainfall is gonna threaten Bangkok…

[asiawatcher]

If these 'experts' could have just see Ratchadaphisek yesterday opposite Robinson, for 10 minutes only buses and 4WD's could get past the traffic lights. To say it was flood water as a direct result of runoff coming from torrential rain - even an expert could state the obvious. Point being - there IS nothing they can do about it.

[MESmith]

If these 'experts' could have just see Ratchadaphisek yesterday opposite Robinson, for 10 minutes only buses and 4WD's could get past the traffic lights. To say it was flood water as a direct result of runoff coming from torrential rain - even an expert could state the obvious. Point being - there IS nothing they can do about it.

Clean the storm drains?

[apetley]

If these 'experts' could have just see Ratchadaphisek yesterday opposite Robinson, for 10 minutes only buses and 4WD's could get past the traffic lights. To say it was flood water as a direct result of runoff coming from torrential rain - even an expert could state the obvious. Point being - there IS nothing they can do about it.

Clean the storm drains?

That is an obvious solution that should be happening every single day considering the local habit of throwing rubbish into the street or canals.

[DDuval]

Well i'm taking no chances just relocating to the 35 floor from the 3rd. should be safe until Xmas

[Payboy]

Hydro and Agro Infomatics Institute

Rather fancy name for a bunch of plumbers.

[IMA_FARANG]

If these 'experts' could have just see Ratchadaphisek yesterday opposite Robinson, for 10 minutes only buses and 4WD's could get past the traffic lights. To say it was flood water as a direct result of runoff coming from torrential rain - even an expert could state the obvious. Point being - there IS nothing they can do about it.

----------

Yes, and Ratchadaphisek is a prime example of poor design and planning and how that contributes to flash flooding during heavy rains.

First, that area....even years ago....often flooded during the rainy season....because it is slightly lower than adjoining areas.

it's only a few centimeters or so....but water doesn't run uphill it runs downhill doesn't it?

So it will naturally run into not out of that slightly lower area.

Secondly, the buildings in that area have raised areas....stairways and walkways which means that rain can not run off once it comes into that lower area...those raised terraces. walkways, etc. mean the rain water pools in the lowest points.

That is usually the road in the intersections....the highway in the center is often the lowest point in areas like that.

The end result is that the intersection pools water at it's center, which can't escape because of the raised sidewalks, terraces, pedestrian barricades (to prevent people croosing the highways)....and that makes a nice pool of water in the center of the intersection.

The rainwater "floods" other nearby areas from that pool.

It's not hard to understand or see.

Just walk through similar areas in Bangkok thinking that "water will pool in the lowest points" and you can easily see where such spots are.

Those are the spots that "flood" during heavy rainfalls.

No mega multi-million Baht expenditure projects needed there....just a few well thought out and well constructed drains to get rid of the pooling rain water BEFORE it pools and floods.

[MEL1]

Rain, not run-off, main threat to Bangkok, says expert

Bring in Rain Man, Mr. Dustin Hoffman. He could place a few bets and turn the rain into money.

Oooops...... my error....... the guys at the top already did that!

-mel.

[Soutpeel]

Well i'm taking no chances just relocating to the 35 floor from the 3rd. should be safe until Xmas

Be cafeful up there, you dont want to get away from the floods to end up doing a spot of balcony diving instead...

[katana]

Pic in today's Thairath showing the extent of flooding (30cm) yesterday at the entrance to the Phayathai BTS station in BKK's Si Ayutthaya road after heavy rainfall.

http://www.thairath....ewspaper/291207

[xkmasada]

Royol doesn't work for this government. He works directly for the King.

It was the only way to ensure that the central government, Bangkok government, and Army would all unquestionably follow a single voice of authority.

[SOTIRIOS]

......it seems like something is fundamentally wrong & some vital information is being kept out of the equation....

(............. if someone made a major gaffe to make the flooding even worse than last year....... do you think they would confess.....never....)

......especially after all the money has been divvied up and has disappeared....

[koto]

If these 'experts' could have just see Ratchadaphisek yesterday opposite Robinson, for 10 minutes only buses and 4WD's could get past the traffic lights. To say it was flood water as a direct result of runoff coming from torrential rain - even an expert could state the obvious. Point being - there IS nothing they can do about it.

Clean the storm drains?

That is an obvious solution that should be happening every single day considering the local habit of throwing rubbish into the street or canals.

WOW! Have been talking to Pattaya City Hall for the past 11 years for Thailand, to Stencil Storm Drains, (NO GARBAGE) (GOES T) OCEAN) LAKE, RIVER, STREAM OR CREEK.

Impose Fines, EDUCATION, EDUCATION, EDUCATION, Clean the Storm Drains much more often then they don't.

This would at least, slow up the fast flooding, giving one, a little more time, to reach a safer place, Eliminate much of the Toxic, Contaminated Flood Waters, which would prevent, much of the sickness and infections. (JUST AN 11 YEAR THOUGHT) Never put into action...

[koto]

Rain or run off, it is still water.

Hardly matters where the water comes from if you are flooded.

Coming from a toxic, contaminated, backing up, plugged up, storm drain, matters, much more then just water, it compounds the situation into a much larger, health problem.

[BookMan]

Rain or run off, it is still water.

Hardly matters where the water comes from if you are flooded.

Coming from a toxic, contaminated, backing up, plugged up, storm drain, matters, much more then just water, it compounds the situation into a much larger, health problem.

That is very true Koto

[koto]

Rain or run off, it is still water.

Hardly matters where the water comes from if you are flooded.

Coming from a toxic, contaminated, backing up, plugged up, storm drain, matters, much more then just water, it compounds the situation into a much larger, health problem.

That is very true Koto

Kapun Krup, Mak, Mak, Mahalo Nui Loa, Thank You Very Much...

[MEL1]

What exactly is 'run-off' water? Is that water that runs off and away from where it shouldn't go, with a bit of luck?

Or is it water that runs to where they want it to go, with a bit of luck?

Your call YingLUCK.

-mel.

[Dap]

If these 'experts' could have just see Ratchadaphisek yesterday opposite Robinson, for 10 minutes only buses and 4WD's could get past the traffic lights. To say it was flood water as a direct result of runoff coming from torrential rain - even an expert could state the obvious. Point being - there IS nothing they can do about it.

----------

Yes, and Ratchadaphisek is a prime example of poor design and planning and how that contributes to flash flooding during heavy rains.

First, that area....even years ago....often flooded during the rainy season....because it is slightly lower than adjoining areas.

it's only a few centimeters or so....but water doesn't run uphill it runs downhill doesn't it?

So it will naturally run into not out of that slightly lower area.

Secondly, the buildings in that area have raised areas....stairways and walkways which means that rain can not run off once it comes into that lower area...those raised terraces. walkways, etc. mean the rain water pools in the lowest points.

That is usually the road in the intersections....the highway in the center is often the lowest point in areas like that.

The end result is that the intersection pools water at it's center, which can't escape because of the raised sidewalks, terraces, pedestrian barricades (to prevent people croosing the highways)....and that makes a nice pool of water in the center of the intersection.

The rainwater "floods" other nearby areas from that pool.

It's not hard to understand or see.

Just walk through similar areas in Bangkok thinking that "water will pool in the lowest points" and you can easily see where such spots are.

Those are the spots that "flood" during heavy rainfalls.

No mega multi-million Baht expenditure projects needed there....just a few well thought out and well constructed drains to get rid of the pooling rain water BEFORE it pools and floods.

Drains to where? Just curious.

[rubl]

If these 'experts' could have just see Ratchadaphisek yesterday opposite Robinson, for 10 minutes only buses and 4WD's could get past the traffic lights. To say it was flood water as a direct result of runoff coming from torrential rain - even an expert could state the obvious. Point being - there IS nothing they can do about it.

----------

Yes, and Ratchadaphisek is a prime example of poor design and planning and how that contributes to flash flooding during heavy rains.

First, that area....even years ago....often flooded during the rainy season....because it is slightly lower than adjoining areas.

it's only a few centimeters or so....but water doesn't run uphill it runs downhill doesn't it?

So it will naturally run into not out of that slightly lower area.

Secondly, the buildings in that area have raised areas....stairways and walkways which means that rain can not run off once it comes into that lower area...those raised terraces. walkways, etc. mean the rain water pools in the lowest points.

That is usually the road in the intersections....the highway in the center is often the lowest point in areas like that.

The end result is that the intersection pools water at it's center, which can't escape because of the raised sidewalks, terraces, pedestrian barricades (to prevent people croosing the highways)....and that makes a nice pool of water in the center of the intersection.

The rainwater "floods" other nearby areas from that pool.

It's not hard to understand or see.

Just walk through similar areas in Bangkok thinking that "water will pool in the lowest points" and you can easily see where such spots are.

Those are the spots that "flood" during heavy rainfalls.

No mega multi-million Baht expenditure projects needed there....just a few well thought out and well constructed drains to get rid of the pooling rain water BEFORE it pools and floods.

Drains to where? Just curious.

Draining uphill is not automatic, but could be done with age old means. In Bangkok's case drainage would be from lower inner city parts to higher 'grounds' like the Chao Praya river

http://en.wikipedia....edes'_screw

[rakman]

This is how Bangkok relieves flooding problems

This is how New Orleans relieves their flooding problems

World’s largest water pump moves 150,000 gallons per second

Posted on May 11th, 2011 by Jake Adams 7 Comments

The world’s largest water pump is not just a big mag drive with a huge sticker price, it also plans to be a safeguard against rising floodwater in New Orleans. At $500 million for the entire installation,

It is time for these politicians to stop stealing spending money procuring worthless equipment, and get serious about flood prevention. Not only for the benefit of Bangkok, but for all the communities up river that have to be sacrificed for Bangkok to stay dry. They have already spent 8x the amount that something like this cost, for very little to show for it.

That's just the engine to drive the pump.. not the pump itself.. One of the problems New Orleans had (has) was the electric motors for the pumps were below the flood level. So when the inflow got worse, the pumps stopped and it was all over.

The other problem New Orleans had was the money for improvements for flood prevention was diverted to other "social programs" that had nothing to do with flood control. Even the maintenance dollars were diverted, so eventually you get what you pay for.. nothing good.

[ignis]

Drains to where? Just curious.

Someone built an airport on the run-off water area called Swamp land..

[xen]

He is actually right . It is rain that causes the problem but it is the rain upriver that does it !

[davejones]

So many Thai experts. So few results.

You need a history lesson on how bad flooding used to be. The decrease in flooding over the last 50 years is massive. Bangkok used to be flooded for weeks every year during the rainy season. This is no longer the case. That's what called results. Even experts can't stop the rain coming from the sky. Flood prevention in a country like Thailand is an enormous task that even Western countries would struggle with. Progress could be much better, so much more work is needed. But don't pretend that there are no results to be seen.

[xen]

One of the major problems with Flooding and run-off in BKK is that in the fifties and sixties , in an effort to modernise , they filled in all the drains to make roads to accomodate the increasing cars and trucks ( and also to control mosquitoes) . These drains were called Klongs .

[ResX]

One of the major problems with Flooding and run-off in BKK is that in the fifties and sixties , in an effort to modernise , they filled in all the drains to make roads to accomodate the increasing cars and trucks ( and also to control mosquitoes) . These drains were called Klongs .

As far as I can see even a few parts of Bhumibol dam design seems to be outdated to fulfill the current flood control and mitigation requirements. This is among the first thing they should learn not later than 2006. The 2011 floods to certain extent is the repetative of the 2006 flood but in more extreme manner since the same problem with Bhumibol dam had not been effecrively addressed. For Sirkit dam, I hold back my opion for time being.

Hopefully I can spare time to explain further next time.