Chalerm Queries 'men In Black' Claim

[webfact]

TRCT REPORT

Chalerm queries 'men in black' claim

The Nation

Pol Colonel Prawet Moonpramuk, deputy director-general of the Department of Special Investigation, hands out photographs of two men

Thida agrees with deputy premier, questions commission's credibility

BANGKOK: -- Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung yesterday questioned the final report released by the Truth for Reconciliation Commission of Thailand (TRCT), which states that "men in black" provoked the Army to use weapons against red-shirt protesters in 2010.

Chalerm said the TRCT, which had been appointed by the Abhisit Vejjajiva government, had no authority to conclude that there were any "men in black" during the protest.

The TRCT report says these "men in black" had received cooperation from red-shirt guards, prompting the Army to use live bullets.

Chalerm countered this by saying authorised investigators from the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) had concluded that there were no such "men in black" among the protesters.

He added that these investigators would summon former members of Abhisit's cabinet who were implicated in the probe into the 2010 crackdown to testify.

The deputy PM said it was Abhisit's government that set up the Centre for Resolution of the Emergency Situation, which was in charge of the crackdown. Hence it is members of the CRES who should be interrogated, and not the armed forces.

Chalerm said the DSI and the government would wait for the Criminal Court to issue a ruling on Monday on the deaths of red-shirt protesters. He said that if the court rules that soldiers had killed the protesters, then it would make the DSI's investigative job easier.

Also yesterday, Thida Thavornseth, chairwoman of the red-shirt movement, questioned the authenticity of the TRCT report, which will be released to the public on Monday.

She claimed that the TRCT lacked information and evidence to back its conclusion, which was based on personal opinions of its members.

She also said she did not think the TRCT had dug deep enough for information in about the incidents.

Thida added that TRCT member Somchai Homla-or had said the commission's final report was based on information about affected people that was provided by a private centre, which lacked credibility. She said the picture included in the TRCT report showing so-called "men in black" was not authentic either.

Meanwhile, Thawil Pliensri, who was with the CRES and was formerly secretary of the National Security Council, testified to the DSI about the crackdown.

Speaking to reporters later, Thawil said he had insisted to the DSI that there were indeed "men in black" - a term used by the CRES to describe people who used military weapons to fight against the authorities. He clarified that these "men in black" were not necessarily dressed in black or wearing black facemasks.

-- The Nation 2012-09-15

[Bluespunk]

Just when I think this man could not be any more divisive and partisan he proves me wrong again. In which reality does a Truth and Reconciliation Commission not have the right to find the truth? All he wants is his truth and no other brand. He needs to shut up, sit down and have a stiff one (if he hasn't already had one that is, would help explain his reaction at least).

[jonclark]

"Chalerm said the TRCT, which had been appointed by the Abhisit Vejjajiva government, had no authority to conclude that there were any "men in black" during the protest"

Wonder if Chalerm and Thida agree with the TRC recommendation that those affected by political violence should receive money, including those who have faced unfair trials??

http://www.thaitruthcommission.org:81/thaitruth/images/stories/documents/translation_of_trct_recommendations.pdf

[GentlemanJim]

I truly despair for the future of this country!

[Buchholz]

Also yesterday, Thida Thavornseth, chairwoman of the red-shirt movement, questioned the authenticity of the TRCT report, which will be released to the public on Monday.

She claimed that the TRCT lacked information and evidence to back its conclusion

Mrs. Double Standards Thida doesn't seem to have a problem with the TRC Report when it suits her... such as demanding her Red Shirts receive preferential treatment.

Thida cited the recommendation, made by the Truth for Reconciliation Commission, for the red shirts to be held separately from the regular remand population.

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4924541

[whybother]

OK. So there were no "men in black". They were armed red shirts shooting at the army.

Sent from my HTC phone.

[Moruya]

The PTP and red shirts again attempting to rewrite history.

[noitom]

Are the "men in black" the Thahan Prahan?

[GeorgeO]

"Chalerm countered this by saying authorised investigators from the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) had concluded that there were no such "men in black" among the protesters".

To quote one of our great stateswomen ... "Well, he would, wouldn't he"...!!

If these notional black-clad figures never existed, who were those black-clad figures that I was looking at when the pictures and film was being released live during that very sad period? Who were those black-clad individuals that were interviewed by CNN sitting squarely in the ranks of the red shirts? And why now, after already admitting that the black shirts existed, but were planted there by the Democrat government, has the story changed to their non-existence?

I really do despair of this whole saga!

[Buchholz]

"Chalerm said the TRCT, which had been appointed by the Abhisit Vejjajiva government, had no authority to conclude that there were any "men in black" during the protest"

Wonder if Chalerm and Thida agree with the TRC recommendation that those affected by political violence should receive money, including those who have faced unfair trials??

http://www.thaitruth...mmendations.pdf

She disagrees with the TRC on the amount.

The Truth for Reconciliation Commission of Thailand has proposed that Bt3.24 million be given as compensation for "death from political unrest

http://www.thaivisa....t/#entry5303852

She and Jatuporn called for three times that amount.

As for red-shirt leader and Pheu Thai Party list MP Jatuporn Phrompan's demand for the government to pay compensation of up to ten million baht to each family of victims killed in last year's political violence, Thida said the 10-million-baht proposal had been floated a long time before Pheu Thai won the July 3 election

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4625317

Edited September 15, 2012 by Buchholz

[Mosha]

Are the "men in black" the Thahan Prahan?

No, Tommy Lee Jones, and Will Smith.

[siampolee]

Chalerm stated at a press conference held at the Alternative Truth Club yesterday.

''There is no doubt in what passes for my mind that the whole Red Shirt riot affair was nothing more than a gigantic propaganda exercise sponsored by third parties to discredit Thaksin and his views of democracy.

This exercise was done by the use of holograms depicting imaginary figures as real people, in fact there were no Red Shirt riots or Black shirts at all.A mass hallucination propagated by the then administration and the media to portray our dear leader in exile as a villain and a despot.

.Much the same as the situation was when my lovely baby boy had to flee the country after being falsely accused of the murder of an off duty policeman,, the witnesses were again the victims of a holographic fraud.Much the same as when I had to flee the country and go to Denmark some years ago due to false allegations as to my character..''

Edited September 15, 2012 by siampolee

[Xangsamhua]

I truly despair for the future of this country!

The present's not too good either. Still, it's no worse than it has been at any other time since the 1932 rebellion.

[Thaddeus]

I truly despair for the future of this country!

The present's not too good either. Still, it's no worse than it has been at any other time since the 1932 rebellion.

Agreed, it has only varied between 'below par' and 'all new depths'

[cougar52]

And how about the TRUTH, Mr. DPM:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LE29Ae02.html

[jonclark]

"Chalerm said the TRCT, which had been appointed by the Abhisit Vejjajiva government, had no authority to conclude that there were any "men in black" during the protest"

Wonder if Chalerm and Thida agree with the TRC recommendation that those affected by political violence should receive money, including those who have faced unfair trials??

http://www.thaitruth...mmendations.pdf

She disagrees with the TRC on the amount.

The Truth for Reconciliation Commission of Thailand has proposed that Bt3.24 million be given as compensation for "death from political unrest

http://www.thaivisa....t/#entry5303852

She and Jatuporn called for three times that amount.

As for red-shirt leader and Pheu Thai Party list MP Jatuporn Phrompan's demand for the government to pay compensation of up to ten million baht to each family of victims killed in last year's political violence, Thida said the 10-million-baht proposal had been floated a long time before Pheu Thai won the July 3 election

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4625317

Of course they want more! As we all know money = votes

[phiphidon]

And how about the TRUTH, Mr. DPM:

http://www.atimes.co...a/LE29Ae02.html

Yes how about it.........?

They let us inside their secret world on one condition: if we took any pictures, they would kill us.................

................As the sun set on May 14 behind the UDD's bamboo-and-tire fortress erected in the heart of one of Bangkok's top commercial districts, the men ate hot noodles and whispered anxiously about army shooters. Snipers angered them.............

..................Just after 1:30 pm on May 19, these correspondents witnessed two Thai soldiers and a Canadian journalist seriously injured by one of many M79 grenades fired from an elevated position believed to be a nearby Skytrain station. Later, as Central World Plaza mall, was set alight and burned, they engaged in a fierce firefight with the army several blocks away. Then they just disappeared.

It isn't clear why the Ronin raised the veil of secrecy for us, but perhaps it was knowledge that their fight, and possibly their lives, could soon end with the coming military crackdown. That doesn't seem to have happened, however.

Kenneth Todd Ruiz blogging at reporterinexile.com

Olivier Sarbil photojournalist whose images of recent events in Thailand are online at OlivierSarbil.com

http://www.atimes.co...a/LE29Ae02.html

Edited September 15, 2012 by phiphidon

[MunterHunter]

I saw them with my own eyes.

Chalerm is an idiot.

[Nickymaster]

OK. So there were no "men in black". They were armed red shirts shooting at the army.

Sent from my HTC phone.

Yes that is also the way I see it. Somebody must have killed those 20 officials or so. If it's not the man in black, there are only 2 groups left in my humble opinion (mind you I am not as intelleigent as Mr. Charlerm, or his admirer PPD):

1. Either the red shirts killed the Thai officials

2. The Thai officials killed each other

So why is this government not interested to find out who killed their 20 officials?

And then we are not even talking about the 36 sites that were attacked in Bangkok alone during this period of terror.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Nickymaster

[chotthee]

Quote:

[snipers, from the thai army not from hypothetical "men in black" group, shooting at protesters... no mysterious "third hand" here...]

http://thaicrisis.wordpress.com/

[Nickymaster]

Quote:

[snipers, from the thai army not from hypothetical "men in black" group, shooting at protesters... no mysterious "third hand" here...]

http://thaicrisis.wordpress.com/

Somebody must have killed those 20 officials or so.

You seem to know a lot. So therefore, can you tell me who?

[candid]

I have watched this saga since it's inception and I have yet to find anyone who has offered up an alternative solutiion to what was happening in Bangkok over that period. What should ANY government have done to retrieve the situation, a situation which brought shame to Thailand, decimated the tourist industry for a while and showed many Thais in their real light? The Thai poice were shown to be inept at crowd control and the debacle was handed over to the Army, a conscript army with a few professionals.

A large area of the capital city was taken hostage, not for a day, not for a weekend, but for a disgracefully long period. Civilians and soldiers were being injured in goodly numbers, a hospital was invaded and terrified patients had to be moved. The Government at that time accepted the demands for early elections which, for some reason, did not appease the protest leaders. There is no doubt that the protesters were being stage managed by senior politicians. The same politicians who are rabble rousing now. The inevitable ending had to happen sometime

So, was it inevitable that the whole scenario would end in tears? I think it was guaranteed that the conclusion would be violent and costly.

But back to my original question. What would TV members have done if they were the ones on power to bring all this to an end. I don't think I have ever seen an answer to this.

[RogueExpat]

The gall of this guy Chalerm, it's downright spooky.

Chalerm said the TRCT, which had been appointed by the Abhisit Vejjajiva government, had no authority to conclude that there were any "men in black" during the protest.

Comes accross if Chalerm didn't want it published for whatever political goal he currently trying to scam, then it obviously didn't happen.

Seems like according to Chalerm, only Chalerm's version of history is what can be published.

Cretan.

[Roadman]

It is not Chalerm and Thida faults that they are calling the event according to their view. It is the pig ignorance that they bring with them thinking that by sitting in Parliament they have the right for them and their UDD / Reds thugs to be above the law.

[bigbamboo]

Yep, there were no men in black just as there are no prostitutes in Pattaya.

Any fool can see that.........

[Nickymaster]

Yep, there were no men in black just as there are no prostitutes in Pattaya.

Any fool can see that.........

Yes.. but... are we REALLY seeing what we see . According to the puppets in charge of this circus.. not!

Viva la propaganda!

[MaiChai]

That would be the DSI that was appointed by PT when they got into power, not the original DSI who were removed. Thus IMHO the DSI are not politically neutral.

I would concluded there is no solution to what happened in 2010 and Thailand should try and put it behind them and move on. I would add the the whole thing was contrived by Taksin and he should learn to retire from Thai politics and realise he will never be PM again.

[ramrod711]

Chalerm said the TRCT, which had been appointed by the Abhisit Vejjajiva government, had no authority to conclude that there were any "men in black" during the protest.

Clearly there was evidence of men in black, but the commision didn't have authority to conclude anything based on that evidence. Chalerm, while he was in his cups, I presume, concluded that the men in black were police, now he has concluded that it's more expedient to deny everything. If they ever hooked this guy up to a lie detector, it would crash and burn.

[SICHONSTEVE]

OK. So there were no "men in black". They were armed red shirts shooting at the army.

Sent from my HTC phone.

There WERE 'men in black' as I see them clearly on the Thai news at the time of the troubles getting out of a van (commando style) slinking away and then you could see and hear several shots being fired in the direction of where the army were stationed, with said terrorists hiding in the shadows and then disappearing away from the scene a little while after!!!

[MunterHunter]

OK. So there were no "men in black". They were armed red shirts shooting at the army.

Sent from my HTC phone.

There WERE 'men in black' as I see them clearly on the Thai news at the time of the troubles getting out of a van (commando style) slinking away and then you could see and hear several shots being fired in the direction of where the army were stationed, with said terrorists hiding in the shadows and then disappearing away from the scene a little while after!!!

They were 'fake' Men-In-Black