Burmese Whispers: A Paranoid Response From Idle Older Expats

[fruittbatt]

Tin Foil Hat,

Thanks for your clarification. Your earlier post did not read as sympathetic to me but I do appreciate that you have explained. I also agree about the miserable gits.

Yes, certainly, dealing with such a situation face-to-face and calmly is a better way to go, but as you can see from NancyL's post the racist rumors are alive and well and far beyond the point where I can counter them one-on-one. Unfortunately.

[fruittbatt]

I don't think the gentlemen involved were slandering all members of a specific ethnic group. One of the gentleman was simply concerned about a specific maid because he was considering hiring her. Nor should these men be characterized as "a bunch of idle, comparatively rich, fearful farang spreading slander against this marginalised, disadvantaged group." as was done in the frentic, over-the-top OP. It's no wonder so many people thought it a troll post, because it was such an over-reaction to someone asking a reasonable question about a potential employee.

These men are hardly fearful and I doubt most would characterize themselves are rich and idle. Talk about slandering one specific group!

And don't get me going on using the "F-word" to describe these poor guys. In my mind it's like black people using the "N-word" to describe themselves.

(There it is -- I'm taking on the cause of old, white guys who are subject to repeated attacks on their character, hobbies and topics of discussion. We all have a favorite cause, don't we?)

Judging by most responses on this topic to date I am quite sure the majority of COMPARATIVELY rich ...ok...SENIOR ...FARANGS on this forum would totally agree with you. I am also part "F" and part "N" and proud of it!

As for causes...well, I refuse to sanitize an important moral issue by referring to it so slightingly. But your post is most enlightening.

[NancyL]

I realize this thread is about to die a deserved natural death, but I feel I should point out that I've found the best way to counter "gossip" and "rumour" is not to start with name calling. It's much kinder to think of those people as simply "mis-informed".

When I've encountered mis-information (often from the same group), I've found it much more beneficial to approach the first person who makes contact (in this case a long-time CM resident returning to his home country) and explain the facts. (If it's someone spreading misinformation about a broader topics, like Americans, I can email web sources to them.). I point out they are simply mis-informed and suggest they contact whomever told them the lies. I also ask they contact anyone they may have talked to when they were mis-informed.

I don't use words like "spreading gossip", "lying" or "idle, rich white guys with nothing better to do" when I try to correct mis-information with my source of information.

And, I probably wouldn't go on a public internet forum to try to correct the mis-information.

Personally, I like to think some people are simply mis-informed and not idle, rich, old white guys wagging their tongues about other people's maids. Believe me, they can swap much more interesting stories about the sex lives their friends have with Thai people.

[moe666]

heheheh this post sure did morph. I am one of those idle, old , farangs but most of the idle crowd I hang with cannot afford a maid. The intension of the OP where probably in the right place but the way she went about this just turned to you know what. I guess the best way not to spread rumors about Burmese workers is not to post stories such as this on a forum.

[fruittbatt]

I realize this thread is about to die a deserved natural death, but I feel I should point out that I've found the best way to counter "gossip" and "rumour" is not to start with name calling. It's much kinder to think of those people as simply "mis-informed".

When I've encountered mis-information (often from the same group), I've found it much more beneficial to approach the first person who makes contact (in this case a long-time CM resident returning to his home country) and explain the facts. (If it's someone spreading misinformation about a broader topics, like Americans, I can email web sources to them.). I point out they are simply mis-informed and suggest they contact whomever told them the lies. I also ask they contact anyone they may have talked to when they were mis-informed.

I don't use words like "spreading gossip", "lying" or "idle, rich white guys with nothing better to do" when I try to correct mis-information with my source of information.

And, I probably wouldn't go on a public internet forum to try to correct the mis-information.

Personally, I like to think some people are simply mis-informed and not idle, rich, old white guys wagging their tongues about other people's maids. Believe me, they can swap much more interesting stories about the sex lives their friends have with Thai people.

I am not a sycophant. I do not mince words, euphemize, nor apologise for the behaviour of some the more privileged people in our community. Nor do I take dismiss misleading or slanderous allegations against the most vulnerable sections of society as merely "mis-information". As I have already explained the following points which you chose to ignore in your reply, I will re-state them.

The insidious lies out there were not limited to the dining group. In fact that group was simply drawing on existing myths about the intentions of Burmese peoples and amplifying them and then applying them to an individual (my maid).

I did assure the chap who approached me that this gossip about my maid was wrong. At the time I was too busy as well as shocked and disgusted to deal with this issue more fully. Since the man concerned is also very busy before leaving Thailand, it seemed pointless to discuss the matter further with him. Especially as I had previously explained to another man in this dining group my reasons for letting my maid go, so he already knew the truth of the matter. Why then, did the group see fit to broadcast more damaging lies?

Since there has been little consideration of the real moral issues at stake in this topic, I cannot see any point in continuing to repeat myself ad nauseum. Sorry, I don't do fluffy or nicey-poo with any grace whatsoever!

[fruittbatt]

heheheh this post sure did morph. I am one of those idle, old , farangs but most of the idle crowd I hang with cannot afford a maid. The intension of the OP where probably in the right place but the way she went about this just turned to you know what. I guess the best way not to spread rumors about Burmese workers is not to post stories such as this on a forum.

There is wisdom in your words, Moe. It was an error of judgment to expect any serious discussion of the moral issues at stake on a forum like this. And I now realise that using rhetorical language to describe a real problem just confuses people. Live and learn! I should just stick to nice safe comfortable things like where to get the best brazilian wax, or fish and chips.

[iainiain101]

[

I realize this thread is about to die a deserved natural death, but I feel I should point out that I've found the best way to counter "gossip" and "rumour" is not to start with name calling. It's much kinder to think of those people as simply "mis-informed".

When I've encountered mis-information (often from the same group), I've found it much more beneficial to approach the first person who makes contact (in this case a long-time CM resident returning to his home country) and explain the facts. (If it's someone spreading misinformation about a broader topics, like Americans, I can email web sources to them.). I point out they are simply mis-informed and suggest they contact whomever told them the lies. I also ask they contact anyone they may have talked to when they were mis-informed.

I don't use words like "spreading gossip", "lying" or "idle, rich white guys with nothing better to do" when I try to correct mis-information with my source of information.

And, I probably wouldn't go on a public internet forum to try to correct the mis-information.

Personally, I like to think some people are simply mis-informed and not idle, rich, old white guys wagging their tongues about other people's maids. Believe me, they can swap much more interesting stories about the sex lives their friends have with Thai people.

I am not a sycophant. I do not mince words, euphemize, nor apologise for the behaviour of some the more privileged people in our community. Nor do I take dismiss misleading or slanderous allegations against the most vulnerable sections of society as merely "mis-information". As I have already explained the following points which you chose to ignore in your reply, I will re-state them.

The insidious lies out there were not limited to the dining group. In fact that group was simply drawing on existing myths about the intentions of Burmese peoples and amplifying them and then applying them to an individual (my maid).

I did assure the chap who approached me that this gossip about my maid was wrong. At the time I was too busy as well as shocked and disgusted to deal with this issue more fully. Since the man concerned is also very busy before leaving Thailand, it seemed pointless to discuss the matter further with him. Especially as I had previously explained to another man in this dining group my reasons for letting my maid go, so he already knew the truth of the matter. Why then, did the group see fit to broadcast more damaging lies?

Since there has been little consideration of the real moral issues at stake in this topic, I cannot see any point in continuing to repeat myself ad nauseum. Sorry, I don't do fluffy or nicey-poo with any grace whatsoever!

Lets hope he is not Burmese!

[SwaziBird]

"The insidious lies out there were not limited to the dining group. In fact that group was simply drawing on existing myths about the intentions of Burmese peoples and amplifying them and then applying them to an individual (my maid).I did assure the chap who approached me that this gossip about my maid was wrong. At the time I was too busy as well as shocked and disgusted to deal with this issue more fully. Since the man concerned is also very busy before leaving Thailand, it seemed pointless to discuss the matter further with him. Especially as I had previously explained to another man in this dining group my reasons for letting my maid go, so he already knew the truth of the matter. Why then, did the group see fit to broadcast more damaging lies? "

Dear Fruittbatt.

Since your posting has reached out to a large readership I feel compelled to respond with some facts to help relieve some of your distress and to restore this very rocky boat on to even keel and hopefully preserve the good name of a very decent group of men who meet for luncheons and where an air of respectability always prevails.I am fairly intimately aware of all the parties within the group and of the circumstances surrounding the "incident" and all the parties involved with the "housemaid" concerned. I would normally have been happier to discuss this matter in private but it is no longer private and needs to be dealt with here.Firstly I should say that I am sorry for your distress. I think you have permitted your distress to lead to the unfair malignment of the group. How do I know that? I was at the meeting and I know what was said between 2 parties only as an aside and likely not heard by a single other person around that table - particularly as it was raised as a matter of concern to only those two persons and no-one else. I can say with certainty that the person with whom you claimed to have had a previous discussion and who knew the truth of the matter was not present at the meeting you have assumed him to be.I just want to say to you that there was not a disparaging remark raised by or discussed by anyone around that table that might even have smacked of spreading or perpetuating gossip about your Burmese maid.So, I would really like to spare you the angst of countenancing a problem magnified and based, if I might say, on much assumption on your part.I feel your pain and I sympathise with you. Relax. it has absolutely nowhere near the proportions you are imagining. In fact so very little that I believe you will be best served to forget it altogether.You have assumed much - incorrectly - and you have painted the luncheon group, very unkindly as ...well....I won't repeat the number of disparaging adjectives you chose to use. You were totally wrong about them.You may just find it in your heart to forgive them. I'm quite certain they would not seek an apology - but maybe you could just "wish" them one.I want you to believe me and to accept the fact that since you were not at that meeting you are scarcely in a position to consider how the matter came to light, in what context and between which persons it was discussed.I really am not endeavouring to cross swords with you fruittbatt. I respect you and your feelings. I just want you to be happier and less condemning of that group of fine people.To the best of my knowledge, the maid concerned continues to render her services oblivious of and unaffected by the "fuss' being made on this forum. I certainly hope that having been aired so openly, here, it does not get back to distress her as well.Best wishes...

[dru2]

For heaven's sake, the OP and the entire thred are completely fruitbatty - enough nonsense already!

[fruittbatt]

_{Swazi Bird,}

_{you have certainly gone out of your way to explain and reassure me regarding the context of this dining group's discussion. I respect your peace-making efforts and your patience. The problem is that I had heard the myths that were circulating about the "thieving workers from Burma" from two sources before I was informed that my maid had been labelled unjustly in the same way. I have done all I reasonably could to contain and debunk these lies in person. In fact I tried to pre-empt possible gossip by informing your friend in the dining group of the facts before my overseas trip.}

_{I saw no option but to go public to try to inform persons living both here and abroad that their allegations were incorrect and slanderous. Quite frankly it was a cowardly act for people to perpetrate rumors about my maid rather than to approach me to ask the facts - as only one man did ;-)}

_{Although you claim that the dining group was discreet and honorable, this does not explain why NancyL in her post saw fit to speculate as to why the maid may have left another employer (or was dismissed as it was stated). NancyL framed this statement in the context of "}Also, we know of expats who have had other trusted Burmese employees steal from them once they've decided it's time to return to Burma."

A revealing slip indeed.

It is not the reputation of the dining group that is at issue here but the slanderous stereotyping of refugee workers from Burma by persons within the expat community here and abroad. I was hoping that this post would elicit some counter information praising the hard work of these refugees. It has. For that I am grateful.

Rest assured that I have absolutely no problem with individuals of your dining group. They may be senior, relatively privileged, farang, and even somewhat idle, but aren't we all? The problem stems from the pre-existing fear-mongering and slanderous allegations that members of group bought into, as evidenced in several posts on this topic.

[Ulysses G.]

I'm starting to wish that I had not immediately fired my Burmese maid after reading the original post in this thread.

[Payboy]

I'm starting to wish that I had not immediately fired my Burmese maid after reading the original post in this thread.

Me too, I now regret putting mine on a boat without rations and towing her out in to the gulf.

[fruittbatt]

Hehhehheh Payboy. But why not hire a leaky cruise ship to give all gossiping farang a nice little holiday to Australia? If the sharks don't get 'em the government surely will. Hello Nauru Detention Centre.

[cdnvic]

Hehhehheh Payboy. But why not hire a leaky cruise ship to give all gossiping farang a nice little holiday to Australia? If the sharks don't get 'em the government surely will. Hello Nauru Detention Centre.

If it was ever in doubt whether or not this was a troll topic before, this one sealed it.