Uk Settlement Visa Appeal

[MrZM]

Can someone please tell me, is it 28 working days or 28 days from refusal date you are able to appeal.

Thank you in advance

[VisasPlus]

The appeal form must be :

Received by the First-tier Tribunal not later than 28 days after you were served with notice of the decision.

[MrZM]

Thank you.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Having looked at your refusal as advised what are you basing your appeal on ?

• Its pretty clear you should never of submitted that application with 7 days bank statements only
  
• You took extremely poor advice by your immigration adviser, you clearly could not maintain your wife in the UK.
  

[Kiggs]

What kind of time frame are we looking for an appeal to go through. Start to finish?

[Kiggs]

Don't worry about it I have found it.... 20days for visit 90 days settlement ..

As you can guess we have been refused on the grounds of supporting documents. They "say" they contacted us on the 28th august asking for p60 and something else and we failed to supply thus resulting in a refusal .

They never made any contact with us in ANYWAY . They had her email,phone number and post addy.

What a royal pain in the arse!!!!!

[7by7]

Don't worry about it I have found it.... 20days for visit 90 days settlement ..

Sorry to rain on your parade, but this is the time in which the entry clearance manager at the embassy has to review the refusal and either overturn it or send everything to the IAT in the UK for a hearing. See Appeals - visas and entry clearance.

The IAT will set a date for the hearing, which could be 6 months or more after this. See Immigration and Asylum Tribunal - Hearings.

Obviously no one here can comment on the reasons for the refusal or advise on whether an appeal is worth it unless you post the refusal notice in full; removing any names or other identifying information of course.

[Kiggs]

http://imageshack.us/a/img692/5939/page1apph.png

http://imageshack.us/a/img805/1749/page2app.png

Just want to add that all the paper work they ask for was supplied and also want to say that NO contact was made with the wife or myself. They had Email.Post ,Phone number

Edited September 29, 2012 by Kiggs

[theoldgit]

As we discussed yesterday, and you thought to be the case, this is a straight refusal with the right of appeal, which has to be paid for.

I'm really surprised that your agent didn't advise you of the required documentation to support your wife's application.

[beano2274]

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http://imageshack.us...49/page2app.png

Just want to add that all the paper work they ask for was supplied and also want to say that NO contact was made with the wife or myself. They had Email.Post ,Phone number

Do you live with your wife?

How do you know that they did not contact her, they only have to attempt to call, if her phone was off or engaged then they might not call back.

It does say she was informed, so obviously someone is not telling the truth or misunderstood the other person, if the call took place, you have to prove they did not call, it is easier for them as their calls are logged.

Edited September 29, 2012 by beano2274

[7by7]

Just want to add that all the paper work they ask for was supplied

Not according to the refusal notice. Are you saying you did not supply the documents the refusal notice says you supplied but different ones as per the guidance?

NO contact was made with the wife or myself. They had Email.Post ,Phone number

As Beano says, any attempt to contact either of you would have been logged. Difficult for you to prove that they didn't. From what theoldgit says it appears that you used an agent. Maybe they contacted the agent and they did not pass the message onto you?

However, this seems a simple appeal: provide the missing evidence of your income and hopefully the refusal will be overturned in post without you having to go to the tribunal.

[7by7]

I'm really surprised that your agent didn't advise you of the required documentation to support your wife's application.

If the agent is in the UK or either VisasPlus or Thai Visa Express in Thailand, then I'd agree.

Unfortunately, if any other agent in Thailand, even if run by a Brit, then sadly I am not surprised at this apparent incompetence.

Unfortunately Thai defamation law, and hence the forum rules, prevent the 'naming and shaming' of the incompetent on the open forum.

[Kiggs]

Just woke up to a big list of posts. So sorry if i miss anyone.

In the letter it says you have been contacted by the office and advised. Yes its hard to prove that they didnt call or email. In the same way they have to prove they did. We are not working with Thai law its British law .(Same BS just takes longer lol )

No i dont live with my wife but i trust that she would have told me if she had spoken to the Embassy.

As for the information that THEY say is missing,I think that a trained chimp would remember to put that in. One peace of info missing from an egents submission then ok but 5....

[maprao]

Just woke up to a big list of posts. So sorry if i miss anyone.

In the letter it says you have been contacted by the office and advised. Yes its hard to prove that they didnt call or email. In the same way they have to prove they did. We are not working with Thai law its British law .(Same BS just takes longer lol )

No i dont live with my wife but i trust that she would have told me if she had spoken to the Embassy.

As for the information that THEY say is missing,I think that a trained chimp would remember to put that in. One peace of info missing from an egents submission then ok but 5....

In my dealing with visas to the UK albeit tourist to visit family were only successful when I did everything myself. The first time the agent let us down

Sent from my GT-P1000 using Thaivisa Connect App

[beano2274]

Just woke up to a big list of posts. So sorry if i miss anyone.

In the letter it says you have been contacted by the office and advised. Yes its hard to prove that they didnt call or email. In the same way they have to prove they did. We are not working with Thai law its British law .(Same BS just takes longer lol )

No i dont live with my wife but i trust that she would have told me if she had spoken to the Embassy.

As for the information that THEY say is missing,I think that a trained chimp would remember to put that in. One peace of info missing from an egents submission then ok but 5....

In my dealing with visas to the UK albeit tourist to visit family were only successful when I did everything myself. The first time the agent let us down

Sent from my GT-P1000 using Thaivisa Connect App

Same as me, have done all my wife's tourist visas and the mother in laws as well, and all been successful. I always come on here, check the requirements post a few questions and read the information given to me, no need for agents.

[Kiggs]

Mine was not that straightforward as we have tried before and got the knock back for something. We had used a diff agent and they submitted lets say "poor" information and we ended up with a very strong worded letter in our file at the embassy.

[Kiggs]

Sorry 7 missed your question about the paperwork.

No I submitted all my pay slips bank statements didn't have a P60 though but I provided more info than they asked for eg 1mths extra bank statement I even supplied an extra letter from work. The list goes on.

I remember a guy last week that got refused because of overcrowding issues . He submitted paperwork to prove he had a 5 bedroom house (I'm sure you have seen it and no need to link) just makes you think that someone needs to slow down and take more care.

Fingers crossed that your correct and this will be sorted in the next few.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Kiggs

[Thongkorn]

i have heard some storys about agents, not all bad but not all good. The biggest scam is you have to do it two times for some reson, i know a few couples who have had the same trouble, Visa refused because of ext ext, but you would have thought a Visa agents, who are applying for a visa, for there cliants would know better than to submit an application knowingly that it would fail.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Thongkorn

[VisasPlus]

For the record, we were not the agent ( nor was it Thai Visa Express ) used by Kiggs. Following on from that, there will be a record of the telephone call from the Embassy. Not only that, there should be a transcript of the content of the telephone call itself if the ECO ( or ECA ) asked any questions other than for further information to be provided. The record, or transcript, will show who made the call, and what number they called. I have a suspicion that you will find that the contact telephone number on the application form might have been the agent's number, and not your wife's. You need to contact the Embassy and get that phone transcript or record.

If you have a record of the documents that you submitted, and the record shows that you submitted the required documents, then you must inform the Embassy immediately. Do this before you pay for any appeal as, if the ECO has "missed" some important information, then you should not have to pay for an appeal.

It's strange that you mention the case where evidence of a 5 bedroom house was submitted. I happen to know that, in that case, the ECO missed several important pieces of information, so it does happen.

You say that you did not provide any P60 with the application. A P60 is required unless it was not issued. Appendix FM-SE says :

"( b ) The P60 for the relevant period or periods of employment relied upon (if issued)."

Not providing a P60, if one was issued, is in itself, enough to refuse the visa. Further. I don't think any immigration judge at appeal would be able to allow your appeal as the ECO acted in accordance with the law. It looks like UKBA are going to completely rigid in their handling of applications, and the new rules do in fact say that the ECO does not have any discretion in the documentation requirements. If the specified documents are not provided, then the ECO must refuse the application. The ECO does have the discretion to ask for missing documents, but cannot ignore their absence. To be completely honest, if the telephone call was made, and the documents weren't then submitted ( if they weren't, as you say, submitted initially), then you will have a hard time winning any appeal. Get a transcript of the telephone call, find out who the Embassy spoke to, and then take it from there.

Edited September 30, 2012 by VisasPlus

[Kiggs]

Visa+:

Can I just get this correct,please forgive me its 9am and its been a long night.

If the agent were to turn up with all the info and submit the appeal are you saying it would be refused again? Or are you saying that I will have to pay if I can't prove that the info was missed.

At the end of the day I just want this mess sorting as quickly as possible .

[VisasPlus]

Visa+:

Can I just get this correct,please forgive me its 9am and its been a long night.

If the agent were to turn up with all the info and submit the appeal are you saying it would be refused again? Or are you saying that I will have to pay if I can't prove that the info was missed.

At the end of the day I just want this mess sorting as quickly as possible .

If you don't provide the specified documentation then I believe the ECO has no option but to refuse. What we don't know is if all of the documentation was provided. Certainly the P60 wasn't ( because you said it wasn't), so if the immigration judge looks at it he might well say that as the specified document wasn't provided, then he has to agree that the refusal was correct.

Why didn't the agent tell you that the P60 was needed ?

Who was phoned ? If it was the agent, then he should have asked you to provide a P60. If it was your wife, then she should have told you. Get that information from the UKBA at the British Embassy. I am saying that, if you didn't provide the specified documents, then you might have a problem winning the appeal. If the ECO has evidence that he asked for it ( a telephone transcript, or record of the call ), then you will probably lose the appeal.

You say " If the agent were to turn up with all the info and submit the appeal ...............". If your agent is in Thailand, then he cannot turn up at your appeal ( it will be heard in the UK ). But, I suspect that your agent will have no further interest in your application now that it has been refused. Have you contacted him ? If so, what has he told you ? If he does have all of the documentation, then he can give it to you to submit with an appeal, and the decision might be reversed at an ECM review ( which takes place in Thailand before the appeal in the UK ).

Edited September 30, 2012 by VisasPlus

[7by7]

However, this seems a simple appeal: provide the missing evidence of your income and hopefully the refusal will be overturned in post without you having to go to the tribunal.

This comment was based on appeals under the old rules, where new evidence was allowed; provided it pertained the the applicant or sponsor's situation at the time of the refusal.

Having read VisasPlus comments above on the rigidity of the new rules regarding documents, it appears that this is no longer the case.

Unfortunately, bad advice from an agent is not grounds for overturning a refusal; ultimately it is the applicant's responsibility to ensure that all the required information and documentation is provided.

Furthermore, if your agent put his number as the contact number on the application and then failed to follow up any contact from the embassy this is also not going to be grounds for any appeal. Again, it is the applicant's responsibility to ensure that the correct contact information is included in the application.

It looks like the person to blame for this mess is the agent, and I agree with VP that he is very unlikely to show any more interest in your case. Even if he has refunded any fee you paid him, you are still faced with the cost of any appeal, which, from VP's comments will probably fail, or the cost of making a new application.

[VisasPlus]

However, this seems a simple appeal: provide the missing evidence of your income and hopefully the refusal will be overturned in post without you having to go to the tribunal.

This comment was based on appeals under the old rules, where new evidence was allowed; provided it pertained the the applicant or sponsor's situation at the time of the refusal.

Having read VisasPlus comments above on the rigidity of the new rules regarding documents, it appears that this is no longer the case.

Unfortunately, bad advice from an agent is not grounds for overturning a refusal; ultimately it is the applicant's responsibility to ensure that all the required information and documentation is provided.

Furthermore, if your agent put his number as the contact number on the application and then failed to follow up any contact from the embassy this is also not going to be grounds for any appeal. Again, it is the applicant's responsibility to ensure that the correct contact information is included in the application.

It looks like the person to blame for this mess is the agent, and I agree with VP that he is very unlikely to show any more interest in your case. Even if he has refunded any fee you paid him, you are still faced with the cost of any appeal, which, from VP's comments will probably fail, or the cost of making a new application.

I think you are right. If there was no phone call to ask for the missing documents, and those documents were provided later, then the ECM might overturn the refusal decision. But, if there was a call and the ECO asked for specific documentation, then he had no choice but to refuse if it wasn't provided, and his decision is correct in law..

[Kiggs]

Its not looking good,

I have spoken to him a number of times; I should have more information on Monday.

Like I have said, I just want this sorted ASAP! I don’t want it to drag on and on for 6mths for the sake of money.

Will keep you posted.

[7by7]

In which case your best course of action is to forget about any appeal and submit a new application, making sure that this time all the required documentation and the correct contact details are included.

If you feel the need for an agent to check it for you, use either VisasPlus or Thai Visas Express.

I would not trust the competence of any other agent in Thailand.

[Kiggs]

Cheers 7 think thats just what im going to do. I have everything ready to post/fax etc.

[Kiggs]

Dont you worry!! there is NOWAY i can wait 6mths. I would give my left nut to have my wife with me, not going to worry about a G

The paper work is going together as i type,Getting ready for the green light. She is making plans to go to bangkok (gets her out the village so she is happy)

We dont ask for much... the only thing i want is to be with the people i love at Christmas.

I would like to add something about 7 and a few on this site. One day i will find you and buy you a VERY large drink. You guys seem to be one of a few in this business.

Edited October 2, 2012 by theoldgit
Quote removed

[theoldgit]

Off topic posts and some responses removed.

[MrZM]

Kiggs:

Being in a similar position to you, I chose not to appeal. I chose to go straight for a general visit visa, which last for 6 months.

This was accepted and I'm returning home with my family on Friday.

My advice to you, if don't appeal. If you believe you meet the requirements, then wait at least a month before applying again! If you don't feel you meet the requirements apply for a general visit visa, which will last no more than 6 months. This will give you time, to prepare all documents, put yourself in a concrete position and guarantee your next settlement visa!

It will also allow you to book sometime off work, come on holiday with your wife, and go and apply for the visa together.

Secondly, visa agents do not disciple there information to the ukba. Your wife's information would have been provided ie phone number email etc...

Wish you look in the future

[Kiggs]

I have thought about a visit visa but I think we would struggle to prove the return of my wife. Although she has a house and a farm its in her mums name,she finished work and the only thing in her name is a bike.

I can be 110% sure that they didn't call my wife. Trust me if they had called she would have been on the phone 10secs after.

I have requested the transcripts and all the contact details they had for the wife and will include the information when we make a new submission .

All the best mate hope everything works out for you and the family.