No One In Thailand Wants To Listen To The Hard Truth

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

No one in Thailand wants to listen to the hard truth

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The TRCT's report on the political violence of 2010 will be ignored because people are unwilling to take responsibility for their actions, leaving us no closer to reconciliation

The negative reaction from the Pheu Thai Party and the red shirts to the report by the Truth for Reconciliation Commission of Thailand is not a big surprise. One may raise eyebrows, though, considering the fact that the report did confirm their camp's consistent assertion that military aggravation and misjudgement on the part of the former Abhisit government contributed to the political bloodshed in 2010.

Neutral readers of the report, however, cannot see any "extreme bias" on the part of the TRCT. Many red-shirt leaders, as well as Thaksin Shinawatra's international publicist Robert Amsterdam, are seeing what many others fail to see - like the alleged attempt by the TRCT to "blame" the people who were killed or wounded.

The resentment is understandable. The confirmation of the existence of the "men in black" weakens the red-shirt leaders' story that their weeks-long protest in Bangkok between March and May 2010 - during which key business districts were under siege - was peaceful. Not only does the TRCT report link the men in black to well-known red-shirt figures, it mentions bomb attacks and a hospital "invasion". The panel insists it was wrong for the Abhisit government to enlist help from the military to deal with the popular uprising, but strongly suggests that anti-government elements were armed and provocative.

Then the commission touches upon another crucial matter, explicitly criticising moves by the Yingluck administration to use its parliamentary power to rush through legal or constitutional changes so as to achieve a questionable "amnesty" programme. The panel warns that "reconciliation" cannot be forced on a divided nation via one side that controls the parliamentary majority. According to the TRCT, trying to implement much-opposed changes "for reconciliation's sake" could backfire badly, meaning Thailand's political strife could worsen.

The panel's report has won acknowledgement from the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights. In Thailand, the document, which carries a comprehensive chronology of events, reports and observation by the conventional and social media, and various witnesses' accounts, will most likely end up as expected - as an artefact no one wants to touch. Besides the uproar from Pheu Thai and the red shirts, the Democrats and the military have been less than supportive of the report. Again, the reason is simple: this report blames everyone, and in this political crisis, no one wants to be blamed.

The prevailing apathy that has greeted the report confirms that we are getting nowhere as far as reconciliation is concerned. In fact, the report - the last from the TRCT before it disbands - was never expected to have an impact because the Abhisit government set up the agency. Meanwhile the Yingluck administration seems more interested in another "truth" report, advocated, ironically, by 2006 coup leader Sonthi Boonyaratglin. This latter document, controversially put together - and later almost renounced - by the King Prachadipok Institute, was used by Sonthi to support the Yingluck government's amnesty push.

In Thailand, "reconciliation" and "justice" mean different things to different people. If a "truth" report that seeks to heal and calls for forgiveness and chronicles what happened in 2010 without political bias is torn to pieces like this, there isn't much hope for Thailand in the near future.

The TRCT and its reports will now most likely fade to oblivion, as was widely expected. New truth finders will be commissioned, either by the Yingluck government or its successor. New fact-finding reports will come along. It's likely that some findings might please the ruling party, Robert Amsterdam and the red shirts. But the point is that, if the TRCT report can foster no change, then no report can. This is sad, but it's as simple as that.

-- The Nation 2012-09-22

[LucidLucifer]

The truth is, truth is a alien (foreign) concept to many Thais.

[ianf]

The truth is, truth is a alien (foreign) concept to many Thais.

My depression about this country is the extent to which these good Buddhists lie. From Yingluck downwards, corruption, lies, cheating seems to be a way of life. How many farangs have been lied and cheated to by ex-wives? In my case a woman with degrees, a civil engineer and a 'good buddhist' who is now in a senior position in the main government hospital here in Chiang Mai, got lying down to an art form. I don't expect the red kwais to be any different and yes, the lies that they continually spout in defence of that exiled king of all liars is astounding.

[asiawatcher]

Look at some summaries...

... report asserts "misjudgment" by Abhisit Govt" - How? They delayed as long as they could until the bamboo barricades and burning tyres started, gave more than enough time, offered to step aside - which then the REDS did an about face - or have the Thai's forgotten the Government of compromise?

... confirmation of the existence of men in black - denied by the REDS there was armed militia/mercenaries - yet from the shootings, how many were actually killed by army issued ordnance? Never been revealed!!

... the seizure of the core business district was peaceful - 24 hour screaming speakers brainwashing the RED faithful, barricades, speeches quoting "Burn Bangkok" - yes all very peaceful.

... wrong for the Abhisit Govt to enlist military assistance - when sensible negotiation compromise fails and police fail to protect the public, and aid and abet the seizure, did the Govt have a choice?

So whilst these reports clearly are trying to lay blame on both sides and condemn no-one - arguably some bent facts - the truth is still there to acknowledge by Thai's if they pull their collective heads out of their ..... REDS and no one else started the problem and deaths were the result. Irrespective of coloured shirts and the stupidity of Thai politics, that segment is clear cut. And should the other colours now come out at a future date whilst the PTP are in power - pray tell, what means of concilliation would they use to quell the protests? By all means PTP, lead by example and instead of denying the report, how would you have handled it differently?

[alstaxi]

The hard truth is impossible to find amongst all the bull shit and lies.

[jerrysteve]

ONE thing about TRUTH, IT STANDS ON IT'S OWN 2 FEET.

PEOPLE whicn cannot handle the Truth join the ranks of the Mentally ill.

Not wanting to hear the truth is just FLAT DENIAL.

A people who do not want to listen to Hard Truth are simply COWARDS.

[Noistar]

Reconciliation needs goodwill on all sides.

Not a hope.

The sooner Yingluck (or rather the people who use her as a mouthpiece) recognises that the GOOD of Thailand will not be served by the ruling party's infantile definition of 'Democracy', the better.

A solution needs the ruling party and the Opposition working together. Not a hope with these 'wow, look what we can do' immature PTP MPs.

Good luck Thailand in finding a miracle. Nobody wants to serve you.

[thequietman]

Truth ! you want the truth !

They can't handle the truth.

( now say it in a jack nicolson kinda voice with expression)

[rkidlad]

Truth hurts.

You know what it can be like sometimes when you try to call a spade a spade here. When you tell your wife or girlfriend something and they put their fingers in their ears singing 'la la la la'.

If Thailand can start accepting the truth and learns to not take itself so seriously, then progress can be made. There are many ways of judging a culture and society. The best way for me is to see if a culture or society is able to make fun of itself and laugh.

[maidu]

The truth is, truth is a alien (foreign) concept to many Thais.

I am in the midst of a week-long hassle trying to get a visa renewed. I have all the documents, but there is one tiny little thing that they say is needed. In other words, 6 pieces of good ID aren't enough for bureaucrats to believe I am who I am. They want a 7th or an 8th piece of verification, and even the bureaucrats have been tussling among themselves (in my case), some saying it's ok, others saying "no, instructions from Bangkok insist upon ........" It's a bureaucratic nightmare, and it stems from the Thai proclivitiy to never believe anything a stranger says. Their culture is built on (and hobbled by) distrust. All the houses in Thailand have walls and/or barbed wire around them (you see little of that in more trusting societies in the west). Similar for their shops with their ubiquitous metal rolling walls. Ebay never worked in Thailand, because no Thai trusts a stranger to send a product that's paid for. Same reason checks aren't used for everyday purchases - because no one trusts anyone they don't already know.

[GeorgeO]

For once, not a bad article from the Nation, which tells it like it is.

Regardless of whether Yingluck commissions another 'fact-finding' team, the outcome will be the same ... denial from all parties involved; and also sad to see that we didn't get any specific mention of the support (or at least, acquiescence) that the police provided to the lawless visitors to the city, whilst actively hindering the efforts of the Army.

What we saw two years ago was an uprising which was doomed from the very start, and when it culminated in grenades being fired at opposing factions at a BTS station, there was nowhere else for the government at that time to go, but to respond with similar force.

Despite trying to evade the truth, many of us who were here at the time saw the invasion of the hospital, the shooting of a young soldier who climbed down from his vehicle to talk to the protesters, and the response by the frenzied crowd to the call from their leaders to burn Bangkok to the ground. All of that happened, and it was all attributable to the Red Shirts and their leaders, Thaksin in particular.

They consistently denied that the black shirts ever existed, but this was subsequently followed by an admission that they did exist, but that they were controlled by the Democrats, which has been proven again and again to be groundless. These terrorists operated amongst the red shirts, sharing food and drink with them, so it was always abundantly clear where their loyalties lay.

Despite the ongoing debate, I think it's time that the current government started focusing on other matters, essentially because, if she and her self-serving cabinet do not find out where all the flood prevention money has gone, and sit idly by whilst their up-country supporters are inundated once again, then the support base that they have enjoyed up-country is going to fade away very quickly.

[hanuman2543]

It will be the same like in 1973, 1976, 1992 and 2006. History is written by the "winners".

[otherstuff1957]

I find it interesting that the Reds are being far more vocal about rejecting the TRC report. Has Abhisit said anything about it?

[virtualtraveller]

Why bother looking for the truth in a country that favours lies. The Coup was in essence a lie, The peaceful protest for democracy at Ratchaprasong was a lie, the 'Amnesty bill' is a lie, Thaksins seeking justice is a lie.

[LuckyLew]

No one knows what the truth is

So many lies .... so many truths ... there is no line between the two

If I told you I had a 42 inch johnson ... who knows if it is the truth

[Curt1591]

Everybody now, "Mai pen rai!"

[chotthee]

No want want to listen to the truth because there was no truth.

Red shirt: Bullshit, We have no armed MiB.

Army: Bullshit, We have no snipers, beside, we only use rubber bullets and shoot only at the legs.

[WhizBang]

Look at some summaries...

... report asserts "misjudgment" by Abhisit Govt" - How? They delayed as long as they could until the bamboo barricades and burning tyres started, gave more than enough time, offered to step aside - which then the REDS did an about face - or have the Thai's forgotten the Government of compromise?

I do think the Abhisit government misjudged things. They waited far too long before moving against the reds. The blocking of roads and the setting up of stages on the roads would not be tolerated by any western government. Such action would have been dealt with quickly and decisively and the site cleared within 24 hours. The same should have happened here.

... confirmation of the existence of men in black - denied by the REDS there was armed militia/mercenaries - yet from the shootings, how many were actually killed by army issued ordnance? Never been revealed!!

Would it prove anything? A lot of army ordnance went missing during those days, so someone being killed with army ordnance would prove nothing.

... the seizure of the core business district was peaceful - 24 hour screaming speakers brainwashing the RED faithful, barricades, speeches quoting "Burn Bangkok" - yes all very peaceful.

Peaceful? The shutting down of businesses and roads is peaceful, especially as it went on for two months? And what about the rights of those who lived and/or worked in the area?

... wrong for the Abhisit Govt to enlist military assistance - when sensible negotiation compromise fails and police fail to protect the public, and aid and abet the seizure, did the Govt have a choice?

Given that the police were AWOL during this entire event, just how do the report writers think the government should have handled the situitation? Without the police, the government had no choice but to call in the military.

I would also like to add that I think the military were very restrained. If they had not been, Thaksin would have had the slaughter he was looking for.

So whilst these reports clearly are trying to lay blame on both sides and condemn no-one - arguably some bent facts - the truth is still there to acknowledge by Thai's if they pull their collective heads out of their ..... REDS and no one else started the problem and deaths were the result. Irrespective of coloured shirts and the stupidity of Thai politics, that segment is clear cut. And should the other colours now come out at a future date whilst the PTP are in power - pray tell, what means of concilliation would they use to quell the protests? By all means PTP, lead by example and instead of denying the report, how would you have handled it differently?

Unfortunately, the reds only want their version of the truth. And that would be that they were good, peaceful, unarmed victims fighting for true democracy, and that the Abhisit government and the army were evil and wanted only to crush the reds by use of excessive force.

Time to face the truth. Reconsiliation is never going to happen.

[arthurboy]

Avoiding or ignoring the 'hard truth', big or small is normal here.

[Thaddeus]

The truth, as always, is uncomfortable.

[bendejo]

Insisting on the truth can be considered cultural insensitivity in this part of the world.

[punisher]

Look at some summaries...

... report asserts "misjudgment" by Abhisit Govt" - How? They delayed as long as they could until the bamboo barricades and burning tyres started, gave more than enough time, offered to step aside - which then the REDS did an about face - or have the Thai's forgotten the Government of compromise?

... confirmation of the existence of men in black - denied by the REDS there was armed militia/mercenaries - yet from the shootings, how many were actually killed by army issued ordnance? Never been revealed!!

... the seizure of the core business district was peaceful - 24 hour screaming speakers brainwashing the RED faithful, barricades, speeches quoting "Burn Bangkok" - yes all very peaceful.

... wrong for the Abhisit Govt to enlist military assistance - when sensible negotiation compromise fails and police fail to protect the public, and aid and abet the seizure, did the Govt have a choice?

So whilst these reports clearly are trying to lay blame on both sides and condemn no-one - arguably some bent facts - the truth is still there to acknowledge by Thai's if they pull their collective heads out of their ..... REDS and no one else started the problem and deaths were the result. Irrespective of coloured shirts and the stupidity of Thai politics, that segment is clear cut. And should the other colours now come out at a future date whilst the PTP are in power - pray tell, what means of concilliation would they use to quell the protests? By all means PTP, lead by example and instead of denying the report, how would you have handled it differently?

Maybe in Cowboyland it is right to kill your own people,it was 2010 Bkk not 1850 Wyoming with John Wayn,easy to use rubber bullets,teargas,water canons,and and and,u r not to different from red shirts white washers.If u would follow the report and punish everybody who was involved,would be big step ahead.If Abisit gave the order to use rea bullets,then he should get his punishment,if he does not know who gave the order,Abisit still should get the punishment,because he was the government leader,and the leader is responsible for everything.If red.black blue pink or whatever colours was involved,then they should get their punishment too,it is a bit easy to blame only red,on both sides people got killed

[bigbamboo]

I said it before and I'll say it again. This is a balanced report but it's critics will not be.

Still, it's nice to be proved right!

[apalink_thailand]

For those of us who were here in 1992, the 2010 protests were nothing by comparison. Many people shot dead by soldiers bullets and the bodies never to be seen again. This "conflict" too, remains largely unresolved and was neatly swept under the large, bulging rug.

[Sayonarax]

Truth hurts.

You know what it can be like sometimes when you try to call a spade a spade here. When you tell your wife or girlfriend something and they put their fingers in their ears singing 'la la la la'.

If Thailand can start accepting the truth and learns to not take itself so seriously, then progress can be made. There are many ways of judging a culture and society. The best way for me is to see if a culture or society is able to make fun of itself and laugh.

You mean like us western people, who take the piss out of everything?

[harsh4]

2 months of constant provocation by the reds using very aggressive tactics and refusing to accept the Abhisit government's decision to hold fresh elections (apparently that's what their original demand was) clearly shows that the real agenda was to have a violent crackdown while the reds can play victim... Mr. Thaksin has been a devious manipulator in this instance funding all this and using the poor to meet his ends (why matters came to all this and how and why he was ousted is a different debate, but even there he does not go scot free)... the real issues are altogether different as we all know...this is all about getting amnesty or whatever other method that can wipe out all charges against Mr Thaksin so he can return back to his money making ways again with his creative ways... words like democracy and fairness etc are just tools to a bigger end... the system of governance and the widespread corruption and the evolving stage of democracy the country is currently in are all equally the reasons for this mess... but the country is moving ahead towards democracy...all sides have their say...things take time always ...nothing is ever achieved overnight...

as neutral bystanders, we can see that the reds were very provocative, broke the law repeatedly by disrupting evrything (as did the yellows earlier), the reds covered the cc tv cameras so nobody could record their activities, used weapons and verbal and physical assaults constantly....the mysterious black shirts were indeed present as were the military grade weaponry (M79s etc).... the police never lifted a finger to do anything... wasn't all this stage managed ? being in denial never gets us anywhere.... we pray for reconciliation and healing for this otherwise wonderful country....peace to all...reds, yellows, and all colours....when will that happen ?

[OzMick]

]Maybe in Cowboyland it is right to kill your own people,it was 2010 Bkk not 1850 Wyoming with John Wayn,easy to use rubber bullets,teargas,water canons,and and and,u r not to different from red shirts white washers.If u would follow the report and punish everybody who was involved,would be big step ahead.If Abisit gave the order to use rea bullets,then he should get his punishment,if he does not know who gave the order,Abisit still should get the punishment,because he was the government leader,and the leader is responsible for everything.If red.black blue pink or whatever colours was involved,then they should get their punishment too,it is a bit easy to blame only red,on both sides people got killed

Why 1850? Let's take an armed riot in Wyoming, or even New York, in 2010. when police/army/ security start getting killed with military weapons, what do you expect would happen?

".......,easy to use rubber bullets,teargas,water canons....." against AK-47s and M-79s? Easy for you to say, it's not your butt on the firing line.

[FarangTalk]

My depression about this country is the extent to which these good Buddhists lie. From Yingluck downwards, corruption, lies, cheating seems to be a way of life. How many farangs have been lied and cheated to by ex-wives? In my case a woman with degrees, a civil engineer and a 'good buddhist' who is now in a senior position in the main government hospital here in Chiang Mai, got lying down to an art form. I don't expect the red kwais to be any different and yes, the lies that they continually spout in defence of that exiled king of all liars is astounding.

Another stab at Thaksin while completely missing the point that there are bigger liars and manipulators than him.

They were liars and corrupt before he came along you know, not his fault he plays their game better than they can now.

[FarangTalk]

The hard truth is there can never be reconciliation.

A widespread civil conflict at this point seems inevitable.

Shame on the people behind the coup and yellow shirt movement for leading us down this merry path once again. Thai history repeating itself.

[punisher]

]Maybe in Cowboyland it is right to kill your own people,it was 2010 Bkk not 1850 Wyoming with John Wayn,easy to use rubber bullets,teargas,water canons,and and and,u r not to different from red shirts white washers.If u would follow the report and punish everybody who was involved,would be big step ahead.If Abisit gave the order to use rea bullets,then he should get his punishment,if he does not know who gave the order,Abisit still should get the punishment,because he was the government leader,and the leader is responsible for everything.If red.black blue pink or whatever colours was involved,then they should get their punishment too,it is a bit easy to blame only red,on both sides people got killed

Why 1850? Let's take an armed riot in Wyoming, or even New York, in 2010. when police/army/ security start getting killed with military weapons, what do you expect would happen?

".......,easy to use rubber bullets,teargas,water canons....." against AK-47s and M-79s? Easy for you to say, it's not your butt on the firing line.

That is another problem,the region where i come from,civilians don't carry any guns,therefore no police or protesters get killed,anyway if 100 of 100000 have a gun,means not u hv the right to hold ur guns in the crowd and shoot everybody